Rudolf Steiner........Anthroposophy

[Still_Waters]

4 hours ago, Wuschel said:

 

IMV concentration and openness, as well as silence and form are two states of the same. Like water and steam. It's not 'beyond'. 

 

So someone can be concentrated or embodied in 'here and now' including mundane thoughts and be in meditation all the while - and another is in deep quietude and yet not in meditation. 

When one enters the stillness in the depths of meditation, one transcends the little self-limiting personal ego and intuitively becomes aware of the vast panorama of the Cosmic Being. This is a direct experience and one can validate those experiences as real and not just imagination. Too many people call concentration "meditation" when it is not. Concentration is a preliminary stage that is required to become truly meditative.

 

Let me share with you my own personal breakthrough story that happened many years ago during meditation as an example. My spiritual mentor was speaking at my home before a group of 30 of my friends and acquaintances. At the end, she looked at me and told me to always follow my "pure intuition" since it was very very strong. I said that I did; she countered that I didn't. I repeated that I did; she countered once again that I didn't. Finally, she told me that, on the next occasion when I had a pure intuition, I should follow it unquestioningly and I would learn something important. That intrigued me and I agreed.

 

The very next morning, I was sitting in meditation and, while I normally could enter the stillness very quickly via mantra, I could not do so this morning. What kept coming to mind repeatedly was a gay acquaintance who had a boyfriend that I did not even know. The message coming through was that this boyfriend was in mortal danger --- a life-or-death situation --- and that I had to see him that very day for tomorrow would be too late. I couldn't get this out of my mind as hard as I tried to get rid of this disturbing thought about some one whom I didn't even know. Nonetheless, the thought kept recurring and I could not get rid of it because it was so strong. Suddenly, I recalled my teacher's words about "pure intuition" and wondered whether this was "pure intuition". Indeed, what is "pure intuition"? First of all, I realized that I didn't want this thought but couldn't get rid of it. I didn't want to follow through on this as I felt that I would look foolish bringing this up with an acquaintance whom I really didn't know that well. There was nothing to gain by following through on this, and there could be a lot of bruised ego () that could result from a follow-through. Finally, upon contemplating my mentor's words further, I concluded that this was "pure intuition" and that a follow-through was necessary to "learn something important" as she had put it.

 

I was understandably very defensive when I called my acquaintance to inform him that his boyfriend was in mortal danger. I was so defensive that I preceded my revelation by the story about my spiritual mentor so he wouldn't think I was crazy. Even then, I was very uncomfortable. To my surprise, my acquaintance responded positively and said that he had been worried about his boyfriend's behavior over the last few days and said that he would call him immediately. He returned my call in a few minutes and said that his boyfriend wanted to see me that very day.

 

Once again, I was apprehensive about meeting this complete stranger with this outwardly "absurd" warning. Nonetheless, having gone this far, I decided to continue to follow through. It took me about an hour to travel from my home to the boyfriend's apartment in Manhattan where my acquaintance met me. Understandably defensive once again, I preceded my warning with the story about my teacher. I then told him directly that I had a very strong "pure intuition" that he was in mortal danger, that it was a matter of life or death, and that tomorrow would be too late. I cringed waiting for the reaction. The boyfriend, who was in his early 20s at the time, started to cry at that point and said that he was going to reveal something that he had not told anyone else. He said that he had been tested for AIDS twice and had tested positive. He had made up his mind to commit suicide that very evening as soon as my acquaintance (his boyfriend) left town on a business trip. He said that he had everything in the apartment to commit suicide that very evening. He added that he had prayed that, if he was not supposed to commit suicide, that there be a very clear and unmistakable sign. According to him, this most assuredly qualified as a clear and unmistakable sign in answer to his prayer. Needless to say, my acquaintance cancelled his business trip to be with his boyfriend and the story has a happy ending. Through meditation and spiritual practices, the boyfriend was able to reverse his illness and subsequently tested negative multiple times as his life took a decidedly spiritual turn.

 

Since that breakthrough experience, pure intuitions have arisen at other times in my life and, regardless of how "absurd" they may appear, I unquestioningly follow through on them and, as in this case, they can often  be validated. They unerringly guide my steps one-step-at-a-time, as the expressions goes.

 

What is meditation? The best definition (according to me personally ) is that it is the art of shifting attention to subtler and subtler levels of consciousness without losing a grip on those levels left behind. (I actually stole that definition from Nisargadatta Maharaj.) At the subtler levels, one clearly goes "beyond" the limited personal separatist perspective and I don't intend to quibble over the use of the word "beyond" as in your water/steam comment. Hopefully, you understand what I mean by "beyond" in this context. As such and such experiences become more and more common, one's doubts about the process are dispelled and one proceeds from faith to confidence to trust to complete SURRENDER to that which lies beyond the limited separatist egotistical little false self. At that point, one becomes a light unto one's Self and, with that guidance, acts intuitively and virtually unnoticed in the best interests of the Totality with no expectation of a return.

 

To get back to the original point, despite Osho's somewhat controversial practices, I agree with him completely that Steiner does NOT know what meditation is. He teaches various forms of concentration which is an absolutely necessary requirement to be able to go into the depths of meditation. However, that's enough of Steiner for me. People must follow the path best suited to them individually and that is a matter of personal choice. Steiner does have a lot of interesting information to convey as one learns something from everyone and everything if one has eyes to see and ears to hear.

Edited December 26, 2018 by Still_Waters

[Still_Waters]

7 hours ago, Wuschel said:

Thank you for sharing that story. 

 

In my current interpretation of experience I separate between energy and spirit. 

 

Energy being every state of consciousness possible, from the lowest to highest frequency to stillness. 

 

Spirit is absolute. The same no matter what color the moment. Dwelling therein is what I call meditation, 'going beyond'. 

I'm glad that you enjoyed my story; I thought that you might appreciate it.

 

Even in stillness there is potential energy.

[Still_Waters]

14 hours ago, Wuschel said:

 

Yes I do. I call what you were talking about heartflow or inner compass. Aligning with it I consider essential. I've too had experiences of synchronicity which made me trust. But actually 24/7 hearing it and acting upon it, even though there are other voices much louder and promising more reward, that's another story. So thanks for making me look there and 'feeding' it.

 

 

I'd say stillness IS potential energy. 

To use your terminology, "heartflow or inner compass" must indeed become "24/7 hearing it and acting upon it". As one's results after acting are unerringly optimal when one becomes thus aligned with it, it becomes easier and easier to make it a 24/7 experience.

 

Although words eventually become inadequate, I'm comfortable with your statement that "stillness IS potential energy".

[SirPalomides]

I have a few friends who work in or have been schooled in Waldorf schools and everything I've seen about their way of teaching looks great to me. Their use of literature and myths, along with hands-on activities (like animal husbandry) seem pretty awesome to me. One thing that was supremely odd, albeit in a harmless way, was the Anthroposophical wedding I attended, conducted by a priest of the Christian Community (Anthroposophy's in-house church) whose ceremony consisted of some fairly esoteric rhetoric and gestures that, in the context, just seemed silly.

 

But as far as I can tell, Steiner's weird racial theories don't have any persistent role in the organization.

 

I admit I haven't had the patience to go through the work of Steiner (or Blavatsky, et al). A lot of that stuff seems very much wedded to its age- the late 19th and early 20th century Europe- where newly translated works of Hindu and Chinese philosophy were meeting with revolutionary new scientific ideas, ambitious social programs, spiritism, and hermetic revivalism, often in awkward combinations. Of course the weird racial theories are part of this too. A lot of the scientific discoveries they were latching on to were really just bunk.

 

 Now that much more straightforward Buddhist, Daoist, Hindu, etc. teaching is available, the Theosophical milieu seems a bit of a relic. I feel the same perusing much of the literature of the various Rosicrucian groups.

Edited January 22, 2020 by SirPalomides

[Nungali]

6 hours ago, SirPalomides said:

I have a few friends who work in or have been schooled in Waldorf schools and everything I've seen about their way of teaching looks great to me.

 

I taught  at a Steiner school for  while . It was  GREAT experience .  But I cant agree with the second part of the above .... not  'everything '.

 

6 hours ago, SirPalomides said:

Their use of literature and myths, along with hands-on activities (like animal husbandry) seem pretty awesome to me.

 

Thats one good aspect . We did HEAPS of 'hands on' .

 

6 hours ago, SirPalomides said:

One thing that was supremely odd, albeit in a harmless way, was the Anthroposophical wedding I attended, conducted by a priest of the Christian Community (Anthroposophy's in-house church) whose ceremony consisted of some fairly esoteric rhetoric and gestures that, in the context, just seemed silly.

 

 They adopt other 'obscure' Christian religions and ceremony  .

 

Eg . from  another tradition ;

 

The PRIEST, issuing from the Tomb, holding the Lance erect with both hands, right over left, against his breast, takes the first three regular steps. He then gives the Lance to the PRIESTESS, and gives the three penal signs.

....

The PRIEST makes the five crosses:

☩1

☩3☩2

on paten and cup; ☩ 4 on paten alone; ☩ 5 on cup alone.

 

here is some info on the roots of the influence  on 'Christian Community' ;

 

https://reverseritual.com/remembering-friedrich-rittelmeyer/

 

6 hours ago, SirPalomides said:

 

But as far as I can tell, Steiner's weird racial theories don't have any persistent role in the organization.

 

No, but they still have influence . I was listening to  radio interview, man was complaining about what they said to his child ,  student  and himself

-  My daughter showed me  picture she painted and I said 'very Good'. But she said 'teacher said no, it isnt .' So I went to ask the teacher and she explained that the colours where all wrong ... too much brown, they didnt like to use brown as it isnt a pure colour, is associated with this and that (negative) , etc .  she went on and one ... I was  amazed that she didnt even seem to realise she was talking to a very brown Pakistani !

 

... and the 'stuff' they teach the kids about 'history '   ....  

 

 

6 hours ago, SirPalomides said:

 

I admit I haven't had the patience to go through the work of Steiner (or Blavatsky, et al). A lot of that stuff seems very much wedded to its age- the late 19th and early 20th century Europe- where newly translated works of Hindu and Chinese philosophy were meeting with revolutionary new scientific ideas, ambitious social programs, spiritism, and hermetic revivalism, often in awkward combinations. Of course the weird racial theories are part of this too. A lot of the scientific discoveries they were latching on to were really just bunk.

 

YES ! 

Part of the problem is that Steiner was an initiate of a certain tradition . At one stage it was close to the tradition I am an initiate of , so I understand him in a certain way  ( eg, a LOT of 'The Theosophy of the Rosicrucian' is insightful and brilliant  - in this tradition) . But Anthroposophists - generally  are not such initiates , they follow Steiner , they do not attempt to become initiates like he was* .  In my tradition we re encouraged to take on new developments and understandings. . .   to nurture and develop the tradition , it isnt considered 'static' , its evolving  .

 

* Eg.  I am at a dinner put on by Anthroposophists  (when I worked in BD agriculture) .  The focalizer declares (in a put on  voice and snobby accent - for some reason )  " Steiner said ; 'The first  task of the initiate is to encounter 'the dweller on the threshold ! ' "

A guest ;  " Oh ! Goodness !  But how does one become an initiate in the first place ."

The other gets a look of surprise and (dropping her fake accent  and reverts to using her 'Queensland Aussie drawl ' ; " Ahhhh ..... I dunno . "

 

How efen embarrassing !  Another time ; in BD they use prep 501 , made from crushed quartz crystal . I  had got a large supply of pure  crushed topaz 'sand' . I suggested we could use this ( to use the benefits of topaz for other effects, like they  used quartz for its effect).   Response ?  All of them : But Steiner never said to use topaz .  I responded ; yes but what Steiner is explaining is the use of a specific mineral  that can give effect in food production .... they all have an influence and use . We can look  at all their uses and find the ones that have good agricultural effects  and use them for that .   - dumb looks all around  and ' Steiner didnt say to do that . "

 

 

Me ;  Okay, but Steiner  never said to use native casurina  as a substitute of equisetum plant, but you do .

 

No answer .   But I know the answer .... some  Steinerite ' with cred' channelled it  !   These people dont even know the tradition Steiner trained in .... they are into Goethe , as Steiner was , but not Agrippa, a major source of Steiner's knowledge  .  

 

' Followers' .

 

 

6 hours ago, SirPalomides said:

 

 Now that much more straightforward Buddhist, Daoist, Hindu, etc. teaching is available, the Theosophical milieu seems a bit of a relic.

 

Lets not forget the addition of modern sciences as well !  For those that scoff at this , they need to remember that incorporation was what made the tradition in the first place , only they used the (now outmoded) science of that time  - as you explained above  in the bit I bolded. .

 

 

6 hours ago, SirPalomides said:

I feel the same perusing much of the literature of the various Rosicrucian groups.

 

Indeed .    A lot of the symbolism carries over , but  what if, for example, you are not Christian ? Thats why I chose another tradition of Rosicrucian ... a more modern one .    And, it turns out (after I did a lot of research ) that some of the main pop schools of R+C today evolved spuriously from THIS tradition .   Eg,  I hold the title 'Sovereign  Prince Rose Croix ' in this tradition and it took me many years,  8 initiations , study  and integration periods, examinations , etc  to get there. Spencer Lewis, who started A.M.O.R.C.   ( Ancient { } Mystical Order Rosae Crucis )   broke away and formed his organisation after the first initiation (no where near R+C ! )  in this tradition . 

 

Steiner was an initiate of this tradition , while it was still Christian based , and broke off to form his own  group based on his teachings and his understandings ... whas valid within this tradition  as he had achieved the level of initiation and understanding to be able to do that .   But, the world changed , and not all the western world continued to be ruled by Christianity .

 

Anthroposophy ( 'Steinerism' )  is Christian mysticism .