Invocation

[Mandrake]

Vodou is an excellent means of invocation...and a long tradition of it

How many years of extensive training and experience do you have in it?

[Xienkula1]

Unfortunately none with Vodou. But as soon as there's an opportunity....

[BaguaKicksAss]

The reason Vodoun is such a good invocation tradition is because it is properly taught and handed down by people who have been properly taught. I don't have much experience with Vodoun really, but have seen and experienced enough, and have quite a bit of experience in other traditions to draw from.

 

Heading over to Haiti, with contacts setup before you leave is really the way to go with that tradition.

 

I think a lot of the negative opinions about Vodoun are just fear. Not saying there isn't some really scary sh*t in that tradition, but most things said about it are by folks who do not practice that tradition themselves and never have for any decent amount of time.

[Vanir Thunder Dojo Tan]

Grimoires, invocations, evocations, incantations, rituals.


Language; communication::Contractual commands.


Indeed, i feel as though i am breaching a new language of spirit.

[Xienkula1]

It's not like I havent tried, but I am waiting for the right moment....do you know how difficult it is to find an IFA reader? In Montreal, it's tough. there's such a stigma about Vodou due to the Catholic church, Holywood and Zombies....no wonder they dont want to open up too much about it or charge a bunch of $ if they do.....especially to some white person whose ancestors were involved in an attempt to whip this resilient tradition out of existence, wants to know. I still have yet to experience IFA though I love I CHING, Ifa and I ching both share invocation as part of the divination, and they are both based on similar mathematics....I almost got to meet a Voodoo priest through his son, but son and father were on bad terms, so I never got this chance I am still waiting, but in the meantime, invocation is still readily available, and Vodou spirits have come to visit, so that's a positive sign.

[BaguaKicksAss]

Uhm, you do know that Ifa and Voudon are different right? I figure so, just making sure. There are similarities of course, but they are different religions/traditions.

 

Btw, don't jump into any house, or the first house you find. Do some research first and ask around. Travel to Toronto if you have to, or NY.

 

I hate this saying sometimes but, when the student is ready....

[Xienkula1]

Yes ofcourse, but if you trace them back to their African roots to West Africa.....Elegba is a warrior aspect of Eshu, and Eshu is featured central in the Fa system, as far as I knew, so I find some overlaps, but yes there are so many different variants of this tradition, New orleans Voodoo, Louisiana Voodoo, Hoodoo, Haitian Vodou, Santeria, Palo Mayombe Condomble, Umbanda, IFA, Obeah, etc....very different, but similar roots

That's it, when it is meant to happen and if... I will just admire from a distance and have fun researching in the meantime.

Edited April 11, 2013 by Xienkula1

[Seth Ananda]

Xien Kula, You also have Puerto Rican Sanse traditions in the states. Some good houses too...

[RiverSnake]

Perhaps there are knowledgable practitioners on this site. Maybe you should ask about it in the General Discussion area....also say a prayer to make a connection with that tradition.....cast your intent out there into the void.....if your sincere.....IME....you'll usually find a conenction.

 

My 2 cents, Peace

[BaguaKicksAss]

Yes ofcourse, but if you trace them back to their African roots to West Africa.....Elegba is a warrior aspect of Eshu, and Eshu is featured central in the Fa system, as far as I knew, so I find some overlaps, but yes there are so many different variants of this tradition, New orleans Voodoo, Louisiana Voodoo, Hoodoo, Haitian Vodou, Santeria, Palo Mayombe Condomble, Umbanda, IFA, Obeah, etc....very different, but similar roots

That's it, when it is meant to happen and if... I will just admire from a distance and have fun researching in the meantime.

 

As long as you don't go saying that in most traditional houses you will be fine LOL Yes many similarities, and same/similar roots.

 

Oh hey that was a good suggestion by OldGreen, yeah ask your fave spirit you work with from these trads to bring a good teacher to you. It has worked for me before when seeking a teacher .

[Seth Ananda]

And dont go using one Elegua set of rites form one house with the Legba set from another tradition...

 

Sanse {or sance} is a Vodou and Espiritismo fusion. It looks even more Catholic on the surface but i really like the tradition.

 

http://sansespiritismo.blogspot.com.au/

 

http://sansereligion.com/

 

http://www.ezilikonnen.com/home.html

 

its sometimes refered to as the '21 divisions', after the 21 categories of spirits they work with...

Edited April 11, 2013 by Seth Ananda

[BaguaKicksAss]

And dont go using one Elegua set of rites form one house with the Legba set from another tradition...

 

The above should be bolded and highlighted .

Edited April 11, 2013 by BaguaKicksAss

[Spotless]

Grounding, some more grounding and yet even more grounding. It may sound counter intuitive, yet it is the most important aspect and unfortunately often forgotten.

In addition - I would recommend Grounding.

[Xienkula1]

.

Edited July 3, 2014 by Xienkula1

[BaguaKicksAss]

Find someone local.

[RiverSnake]

Was re-listening to this podcast where Josephine McCarthy is talking about Exorcism. She talks a lot about relating to other Beings and gives some critupiques on Grimoires like the keys of Solomon. It may give perspective to those interested in working with Beings and how to approach it practically (Invocation, Evocation...etc). Enjoy

 

http://occultofpersonality.net/podcast-100-josephine-mccarthy/

 

My 2 cents, Peace

Edited April 13, 2013 by OldGreen

[DragonsNectar69k]

Invocation is treated in a variety of ways these days.

 

Chaos Magic people and the those who fall into the psychological/archetypal/jungian interpretation of Gods often treat it as a way to strengthen deficits in ones personality. Chaos Magicians will invoke cartoon characters, made up characters, tv characters as well as Gods or Spirits...

I have used invocation in these ways as well over the years, with some good success, but {to me} it seems to be lacking something.

 

As I said in the Grimoire thread, I see the Gods as being real and the ancient Gods have always felt far stronger to me than say spongebob.

 

Its just I have never had the kind of results with fictional characters as with ancient Gods... lol anyone suprised?

 

I was reading Michael Cecchetelli's book of Abrasax the other day and he pointed out that most people don't invoke to completion. They Invoke to, and stop at some point before full possession. I agree.

Full possession was a sacred phenomena in the old mystery schools, be they Hermetic, Neo platonic or other.

 

Once again I blame the stuffy Victorian mages, uncomfortable with the raw out of controll nature of possession for this being 'generally' de-emphasised in most western traditions. De-emphasised to the point where most western Hermetic paths barely count as spiritual systems.

I dont know how many rituals I have been to over the years where Gods/Goddesses were invoked to some place where everyone had some 'feeling' of their presence being there with us, then offerings and requests were made, depending on their traditions and then it all wrapped up. Its nice like that, but its also sad to think that even 1 more hour of solid invocation could occasionally have had a God step into the room.

 

Possession Changes the psych in deep and wonderful ways. When I first experienced full possession by Pan, He left me with a vastly enhanced sense of smell for several years. I could smell people round 50 ft away and could smell 'things' about them... I also felt part of something Greater, part of trees and nature, part of the ground. A vastness of being. It lasted for years.

 

My goals now are to work with the planetary Gods, following the Theurgy path. I wish to carry this out as fully and completely as possible, by Invoking each planetary God to full possession, at least several times, over what ever time period is necessary to fullfil that task.

 

Just to add another point though, some people have had horrid experiences invoking something into themselves that should have been an Evocation... All to try to be Baddass...

 

I guess that explains why I saw Goku one night in my minds eye. Very interesting.

[Zhongyongdaoist]

I guess that explains why I saw Goku one night in my minds eye. Very interesting.

Sun Wukong (孫悟空) is known/pronounced as Suen Ng Hung in Cantonese, Son Oh Gong in Korean, Tôn Ngộ Không in Vietnamese, Son Gokū in Japanese (also the name of Sun Wukong's parody, Son Goku from the Dragon Ball franchise), and Sun Go Kong in Indonesian.

Goku is Sun Wukong a great hero of Chinese literature. Whatever his origin in Chinese folklore, and his popularization in the Dragon Ball Z series, if he did not have a life of his own before, he has now. Check out the link:

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sun_Wukong

[DragonsNectar69k]

Goku is Sun Wukong a great hero of Chinese literature. Whatever his origin in Chinese folklore, and his popularization in the Dragon Ball Z series, if he did not have a life of his own before, he has now. Check out the link:

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sun_Wukong

 

Hahaha. Good stuff. This was definitely Goku from Dragon Ball Z though.

[RiverSnake]

Found this interview quite fascinating. He talks about Grimoires, Qabalah, dealing with spirits....etc....Good stuff. Enjoy http://www.hadeanpress.com/2010/01/a-conversation-with-jake-stratton-kent/

 

My 2 cents, Peace

[DragonsNectar69k]

Found this interview quite fascinating. He talks about Grimoires, Qabalah, dealing with spirits....etc....Good stuff. Enjoy http://www.hadeanpress.com/2010/01/a-conversation-with-jake-stratton-kent/

 

My 2 cents, Peace

 

Yea. Very interesting read. It is always nice to have a group that is well grounded, already gifted, and truly interested in learning a craft rather than wanting power and glory, so to speak.

 

What I find interesting about grimoires and such is what happens to these spirits? Do they not want to move on and progress into eternity? I know in some cults one must make a pact to serve in their after life, in the astral or whatever, until some one comes along and takes the reigns apparently and hence the lineage goes on.

 

I also know some people are able to create spirit entities through sexual magick for their own uses and such, but I can only imagine the karma involved.

[Seth Ananda]

What I find interesting about grimoires and such is what happens to these spirits? Do they not want to move on and progress into eternity?

Who knows. Interesting question though... Spirit is often seen as the 'eternal' aspect of us, but how often {if it at all} does a spirit go through a complete transformation like the death/birth transformation for us? Where we loose what we were?

 

I tend towards thinking that the spirits mentioned, of the underworld or heavenly variety, have a very long life span {aeons} compared to ours, and may change slowly, but that is all it is ~ Thinking...

I know in some cults one must make a pact to serve in their after life, in the astral or whatever, until some one comes along and takes the reigns apparently and hence the lineage goes on.

Be careful about the pacts you make

[RiverSnake]

I also know some people are able to create spirit entities through sexual magick for their own uses and such, but I can only imagine the karma involved.

 

I believe these are called servitors or elementals which we can create through our imagination. My understanding is it can be a risky process because your karma is attached to all the entities you create do to the fact that they are made with your own energies and also they are only as "stable" as the person whom created them.

 

My understanding is that you can loose control of them quite easily. Its an interesting topic and often a frequent tool of magusus.

 

My 2 cents, Peace

Edited May 5, 2013 by OldGreen

[DragonsNectar69k]

Hahaha. I fell asleep and took a nap. I believe I met some one from the article. Said his name was Mike Esnow. Huge tall guy, REALLY tall. Sort of looked like a Eskimo kind of fella. Shook his hand and then woke up.

 

It is my honest belief that some maguses and individuals who play with energy and magick end up getting stuck some times in the astral. Known as the second death. It is heard of the book of revelations as well as some vampiric cults who understand the danger and mishaps with doing what they want and forsaking higher beings, aka love. They are then stuck helping themselves some how.

 

Found this interview quite fascinating. He talks about Grimoires, Qabalah, dealing with spirits....etc....Good stuff. Enjoy http://www.hadeanpress.com/2010/01/a-conversation-with-jake-stratton-kent/

My 2 cents, Peace

Edited May 5, 2013 by DragonsNectar69k

[DragonsNectar69k]

Winged_Wolf, most spirits of a non-material origin point do not require foreign energy for their own maintainence, as they already have a complex matrix of energies which, by various governing laws, sustain them on the astral level. As Dion Fortune also notes, only those human souls which fear The Second Death and have the resources to attach themselves to our world for a period of time are subject to both entropic laws and attrition damage. Spirits such as these are required to feed off of energy on this level of existence, not fully existing on the astral realm themselves, and therein not able to sustain themselves with the raw energies in the astral. However, such human souls are few and far between, though often the source of hostile hauntings and extreme psychic-vampirism. The most common area of such hauntings today is South-Eastern Europre, where various Black Lodges reside, and therein do exist many talented necromancers who know how to escape the Second Death and sustain themselves as a soul via vampirism.

 

Apparently the spirit is not hostile, but I would still practice keeping a shield up, as well as setting up construct barriers in at least one room of your house, preferably your bedroom, so that the spirit can not enter there. This gives you both an undisturbed place of rest and study, as well as a "safehouse" of sorts in the event that the spirit does become hostile. http://forums.vsociety.net/index.php?topic=2941.10;wap2