"The Secret" hits it bigtime!

[Pero]

I have been casually wondering if 'The Secret' & things of its ilk represent a kind of psychic confusion.

 

While I have no problems with there being a Law of Attraction that can be succesfully employed by an individual,I dont see it as being the ONLY influence on events,& to think it is such strikes me as a colossal ego-trip at best. Its fairly evident that there are other factors independent of our wishes that make the world around us, though thats a hard lesson for children everywhere to learn.

 

But it occured to me that that doesnt necessarily mean that "Abraham" or whatever is either non-existent or lying.

 

Perhaps Abraham is just confused!

 

From what I vaguely remember of the Buddhist Realms ,isnt there something like the God/Titan Realm,where you really do get youre desires instantly manifest,as per The Secret ? Is it not also true that the Titans/Gods arent necessarily enlightened or wise,just powerful in their Realm? Or something like that ?

 

Couldnt Abraham just be another dodgy channelled entity that doesnt really understand the functioning of the Human Realm ? Not necessarily deceptive or invented, just mistaken, confusing its conditions for ours ?

 

Ill apologise if Im a bit vague on my details ( I do consider The Secret to be a fairly 3rd rate peice of work ) ,but do you see what Im getting at ?

 

Just speculatin'

 

Regards,Cloud

 

The realm you are thinking of is Deva or God realm. They are not enlightened. They do live a life free of suffering, only enjoying. They have long lives, even for thousands of years, but they don`t live forever. And when death comes, they suffer infinitely. Due to their clarity they know they will die a week before. A week of suffering. I remember something about their bodies begining to give out a certain scent, as well as becoming sick. They remain alone, since no other god can face that suffering, they don`t want to admit it will happen to them as well. When they die, the go to one of the three lower realms since they have spent all their positive karma, and have "pay" for the negative actions they did.

That is of course, unless they meet the Teachings. But it is also said, that because they have an easy life, they do not care much for the Dharma. Which is why Human realm is said to be the best to achieve enlightenment. (Asura realm is kind of similar to Deva realm, only they suffer more I think)

And BTW, while being in human realm, we can also be in one of the six realms....

 

 

Hmm, who is this Abraham you guys are talking about? (it`s been a long time since I`ve watched the secret)

[林愛偉]

I have a question.

 

I have a pretty good grasp on the concept of karma. Seems reasonable to me.

 

But I'm curious; according to your belief system, what "enforces" it? Maybe it's a stupid question, and it just functions as a natural law or something - but I'm curious enough to ask.

 

 

The only thing natural about it, is our original nature. Everything else is a process of transformation. There is no enforcing of it, because there is no higher being saying what goes and comes. It is only the person with their thoughts, desires, emotions, which cause things to be. And what causes those thoughts...? it would be a very long story, but its equivalent to saying....

 

Karma is a process. Its a process of the changing of our mind and thoughts. It was "enforced" by our own thinking and misunderstanding. Good or bad, it doesn't matter for it is karmic process. Holding onto the good results in more dellusion, thinking life is about gaining good deeds...and that results in a greedy mind, even if good is being done. If there is a want, with greed (personally attached), then there is only greed present and attained. The object that is sought after may be attained as well, but it goes as fast as it came. Because satisfaction of attaining is never really permanent, a mind of greed will always look for more.

 

The "enforcer" is only the person thinking, desiring, being emotional, greedy, ignorant, angry, etc. It is also the person doing good, being happy, etc. Everything experienced is a process of karma and a result of our 6 senses. It is their constant going with the flow of their experiences which get them caught in the process of it all. People think the flow is good for them, but it is only ordinary. Creating the flow is a bit more in the wisdom seat, while stepping to the side, and not regarding, but not Not regarding would be the enlightenment seat.

We remain stuck in the 6 senses (touch, taste, smell, hear, see and mind), and form a view of the world, life, that keeps us in a small realm of experience. Not that we should experience, but just for the sake of saying so, I say experience. And from those things we constantly expereince, we base our world on.

This view of the world is the catalyst, with our emotions, desires, thoughts, etc, for the karma we have in our lives... it is adding fuel to the fires of our transformation engine called karma..haha And where ever our mind is, is what will be experienced. Change the mind, and karma also changes.

 

Peace,

Aiwei

[beancurdturtle]

This view of the world is the catalyst, with our emotions, desires, thoughts, etc, for the karma we have in our lives... it is adding fuel to the fires of our transformation engine called karma..haha And where ever our mind is, is what will be experienced. Change the mind, and karma also changes.

Wonderful explanation. Thanks for your time.

[freeform]

One thing I really dont get about karma is the good and bad thing...

 

I mean, good and bad only seems to exist in the mind, at least for me - from what I've experienced through the body and the heart (emotion) there is always a balance of good and bad...

 

"It is neither good nor bad, but thinking makes it so."

 

old Will knew it.

 

so good deeds and bad deeds - who makes the judgement?

[林愛偉]

One thing I really dont get about karma is the good and bad thing...

 

I mean, good and bad only seems to exist in the mind, at least for me - from what I've experienced through the body and the heart (emotion) there is always a balance of good and bad...

 

"It is neither good nor bad, but thinking makes it so."

 

old Will knew it.

 

so good deeds and bad deeds - who makes the judgement?

 

 

Such a good question.

 

People make the disticntion (judgement) and that distinction making is what adds more to the process. Now we know specifically the manners of the dual mind, Yin and Yang and its relativity. So I don't have to go into that. Stepping out of that process of mind, we will be in the middle ground, but it is only called the middle ground because there is no personal attachment to the process of transformation, karma. There really is no direction, I just say middle for a focus of thought, nothing more.

 

This doesn't mean one can go and do anything they lease, just as long as they do not juge their actions and outcomes. haha It means that regardless of what is thought of, desired and sought after, emotionally experienced, and the personal attachment to them... will add to the process of karma regardless of how people view it.

It is the manner of not taking full responsibility for everything we say, think, do, feel, desire. These things shape our world in the mind, and it is what forms what we experience, and adds momentm to the process of karma.

If we slow down the manner inwhich we view what we think, desire, emotionally feel, then we will realize that the mind is not actually thinking fast, it is the view we place on it which is perceived as fast. THoughts have no speed, no time which to be as. Once this is relaized, we can actually lessen the momentum to our own process, and thus begin to see past the tohughts, desires, emotions, greed, ignorance and anger within the mind which has fueled karma.

Once that "slows" down, we may find the mannerism inwhich to see our true nature. It is only called true nature, original nature, because it is not of the dual mind, and is not subject to duality, BUT it is where all duality rests upon.

 

Peace, and Happiness,

Aiwei

 

 

 

Wonderful explanation. Thanks for your time.

 

 

Its all your time. I have taken it from you. haha

 

Peace,

Aiwei

[beancurdturtle]

If we slow down the manner inwhich we view what we think, desire, emotionally feel, then we will realize that the mind is not actually thinking fast, it is the view we place on it which is perceived as fast. THoughts have no speed, no time which to be as. Once this is relaized, we can actually lessen the momentum to our own process, and thus begin to see past the tohughts, desires, emotions, greed, ignorance and anger within the mind which has fueled karma.

Once that "slows" down, we may find the mannerism inwhich to see our true nature. It is only called true nature, original nature, because it is not of the dual mind, and is not subject to duality, BUT it is where all duality rests upon.

Aiyah!

 

Dude! Your words feel a bit like original taoist thought with a funky vocabulary. I like it. It's quite entertaining and refreshing.

 

More importantly; how can you type so fast with those long sleeves?

 

Its all your time. I have taken it from you. haha

I'd need an ego for it to be my time.

 

Peace,

Edited June 24, 2007 by beancurdturtle

[林愛偉]

Aiyah!

 

Dude! Your words feel a bit like original taoist thought with a funky vocabulary. I like it. It's quite entertaining and refreshing.

 

More importantly; how can you type so fast with those long sleeves?

 

 

HAHA So funny!!!

 

Use the vocabulary people know best, and utilize context of the meaning to resonate with their minds.

 

Rolled up sleeves, and a hard seated stool to keep the mind awake! haha

 

Peace,

Aiwei

 

 

 

 

I'd need an ego for it to be my time.

 

Peace,

 

 

In that case, it is no time

Edited June 24, 2007 by 林愛偉

[freeform]

Such a good question.

 

 

Thanks for your reply, Aiwei.

 

I admit I dont take karma too seriously. It seems like the idea is trying to communicate something important, but for me it fails to deliver. Do good things and good things happen?

 

Aiwei, I'm not sure I understood you correctly, but certainly what you wrote promted another interpretation I sometimes have about karma. Karma is my personal, accumulated 'stuff' - traumas, attachments, personas etc. all the stuff that makes me a 'me'. And clearing my karma is integrating this 'stuff' to the point that there is no seperation - there is no more 'me'.

 

This is quite a useful concept for me...

 

But when people say that having 'good karma' means that my cultivation path will be easier, and having 'bad karma' means my cultivation will be harder - this just baffles me... what does it mean?

 

Whether my karma is good or bad, it's still karma - and it still seperates me - so it needs to be integrated, no?

 

 

I have this sneeking suspicion that someone's little mind construed a usefull idea into a morality system to control the masses.

[林愛偉]

 

Thanks for your reply, Aiwei.

 

I admit I dont take karma too seriously. It seems like the idea is trying to communicate something important, but for me it fails to deliver. Do good things and good things happen?

 

Aiwei, I'm not sure I understood you correctly, but certainly what you wrote promted another interpretation I sometimes have about karma. Karma is my personal, accumulated 'stuff' - traumas, attachments, personas etc. all the stuff that makes me a 'me'. And clearing my karma is integrating this 'stuff' to the point that there is no seperation - there is no more 'me'.

 

This is quite a useful concept for me...

 

But when people say that having 'good karma' means that my cultivation path will be easier, and having 'bad karma' means my cultivation will be harder - this just baffles me... what does it mean?

 

Whether my karma is good or bad, it's still karma - and it still seperates me - so it needs to be integrated, no?

I have this sneeking suspicion that someone's little mind construed a usefull idea into a morality system to control the masses.

 

 

Another great question. And I was about to go and meditate for awhile.. too selfish of me, I am glad I came to check.. haha

 

First part: you said"But when people say that having 'good karma' means that my cultivation path will be easier, and having 'bad karma' means my cultivation will be harder - this just baffles me... what does it mean? "

 

Now there are two manners of mind saying this to you, or have written it. The first is the master teacher, Buddha, sage, wise adviser seeing the conditions of the people and realizing that it may not be so easy for them to PUT DOWN their attachments so fast in order to cultivate without obstruction. So the Buddha, master teacher, sage, wise adviser utilizes the capacity of the people and says if you can't put down and thus are going to accumulate karma, then atleast accumulate good karma.. good karma is seen as the results manifested from the causes of patience, compassion, wisdom, which is helping others, controling desires-moderately giving into desires etc.

The second person is the one who doesn't realize the true meaning of this expedient method taught by the masters, Buddhas, sages, wise advisers, and really likes it. He accumulates lots of money from "good" deeds done to others, and behavior changes, lives with enough materialism so as to have enough time to cultivate without worrying about bills, family pressures, etc. THat is why most say accumulate good karma.

But the truth is that it is only an expedient means because some living being's afflictions are so "heavy", so much, that they do not have the causes in the mind to manifest enough situations, time, to cultivate, sit in meditation, read a sutra or text, listen to a Dharma talk, or other teachings that lead to enlightenment, and the ending of karma. So in the meantime, till they lessen the afflictions, do good things, be a good person, cultivate selfless behavior and mind, and what is considered to be good, will eventually come. It is inevitable when on the wheel od duality. People miss that and stay on the wheel of dualty, while cultivating for endless lifetimes. THough not wrong, it is just keeping them in a more "comfortable manner" of living to cultivate. Where the mind is, is what will be experienced...until the mind is not attached to the view it holds.

 

Second question and statement: Whether my karma is good or bad, it's still karma - and it still seperates me - so it needs to be integrated, no?

 

Karma is not separate from you or your original nature. Whether it is seen as good or bad, it is still covering your bright mind. If you hold the view of it separating you, then it will result in just that, separation. Karma isn't given by another to you, it is of you from you and experienced by you. It is that it mixes with others to form different outcomes when met by other minds. But it is still karma. As long as one has their personal attachments to their causes planted, there will be results from it.

 

Fun Statement of yours: I have this sneeking suspicion that someone's little mind construed a usefull idea into a morality system to control the masses.

 

I am sure that someone found out that there is a reason why people do the things they do, whether good or bad, and love it. They seen the process, and tried to utilize the language at hand to ifnorm the people in a manner inwhich the people can grasp. Over so much time, many do not cultivate, but just follow, and this misconscrues the teachings

 

Peace and Happiness,

Aiwei

[Oolong Rabbit]

[Cameron]

I asked Nirmala about this(I think?) today and here is what came up regarding the do good deeds question.

 

Also..this is my take on that line of thought at this time.

 

Your true nature is boundless,endless,unsurpassable,unending,unimaginable,unbelievable merit.

 

It's like..if you took all of the good merit in all the universes it doesn't come close to your true nature.

 

Your true nature..your SELF..is the source and destination of all of this. It is beyond words and concepts but the awakened ones sometimes are drawn to talk about it.

 

What seems to be the manifestation of this boundless ocean of compassion and love of the awakened ones coming from realizing there true nature is this thing called love.

 

This thing called love, or compassion, seems to be how ones who awaken to there true nature move in the world. Taoists talk about it like water. Water is humble, it moves to the lowest level, it flows effortlessly.

 

So..let's say the awakened being is like water. He or she(or it?) flows effortlessly providing love and support to sentient beings. They move to wherever they are drawn to help sentient beings wake up to there true nature.

 

So..what I asked this teacher today..is about love. It seems to love is sometimes easy, sometimes hard. But it also seems beings who are awake love everything. They love things they don't like as much as things they do like. They have this equal compassion for all.

 

We who arent awake. Or let's say not fully awake.We think we aren't there yet. We still have preferences. We still make-or have the illusion that we make-choices. I like that, I don't like that. She's nice, he's annoying, etc etc.

 

So by practicing doing good deeds..we begin to try to copy what the awakened ones do. I don't know if that's good or bad. It's a practice. I think of it like using training wheels on a bicycle before we can just ride the bike. Maybe you haven't realized that you and the universe are one but by selflessly giving, or helping someone else. Or loving things that you might not even think to love. It's like begining to practice what your true nature is like before you have actually woken up to it.

 

Don't get me wrong. Ime for people(myself included) waking up in this lifetime and getting to the really good stuff. I say when your awake you do what your natural self says to do. You are "one" and this oneness informs all your actions in life becasue you have so deeply realized it it could be no other way.

 

But for practical purpouses, most of us aren't there yet..so there are these precepts and teachings that say "do no harm", "practice compassion", etc.

 

But those are training wheels. Wake up to your true nature first and that's all just what is. Who cares if your karma is good or bad? Wake up and you see your an illusion!

 

From another persective being too focused on doing good deeds may help to enforce the illusion of seperate self. It's a subtle issue. I say who cares. Time is limited put as much effort as you can to awakening. Then you can figure out in future lifetimes(if they exist) about what constitiutes good or bad karma

 

Should this discussion still be on "The Secret" thread?

[beancurdturtle]

Don't get me wrong. Ime for people(myself included) waking up in this lifetime and getting to the really good stuff. I say when your awake you do what your natural self says to do. You are "one" and this oneness informs all your actions in life becasue you have so deeply realized it it could be no other way.

Well said!

[Pietro]

Am I just wrong because freeform excercise didn't work for me?

 

write down what you most want right now - be as egoic as you want. We'll call this desire A.

 

once you have A. on paper, gently imagine yourself already having it right in front of you - imagine it in a way that makes it seem like you've already had A. for a while.

 

now, with this feeling still going, ask yourself - "what does having A. give me, that's even more important than A.?" - I'll give an example - say A. = $10 000 000 - what does having $10 million give me that's even more important?... let's say my answer is 'Security' - that's B. (every one will have a different answer).

 

so you write B. down and imagine having it - like you've had it for a while already. Then with that feeling still going, you ask yourself "what does having B. give me that's even more important than B. itself?" you'll get answer C.

 

You repeat the same process with C. untill you get D. and then repeat with D.... untill at some point you'll get to an answer that you cant find a higher reason for - it can be letter B. , C. , Z - however many rounds it takes to get there. But this last answer will undoubtedly be a very spiritual one - it will be something like 'completion', 'ultimate happiness', 'enlightenment' etc.

 

Once you have this final answer just imagine already having it - it will feel amazing, I promise... then, holding on to that feeling go backwards through your answers and let the light of this final answer bathe each one of the lower answers. so if your final answer was at F - you take the feeling of having F and you look over E, let the light of F bathe the E... then go onto D, then C and so on untill you get to A... and if you do it I challenge you not to laugh at A. when you get back to it with the perspective of F.

 

This is a very powerfull technique and can be used in many different ways to start to transform your ego completely - feel free to ask for tips if you need.

 

(oh and by the way - if you still want A. by the end of the process - you'll be much more likely to get it now )

 

Ok, so I tried it:

Desire

A

. I want lots of women.

If I have A how would I be feeling? Whoa!

Keeping the same feeling what do I desire now?

Desire

B

. I want a family! I want a wife and kids!

If I had desire B how would I be feeling? Yesss!

Keeping the same feeling what do I desire now?

Desire

C

. I want lots of women...

 

So I suppose I have litterally a twisted heart, a shortcircuited spirituality, and a looping desire. Can I still be saved? And don't forget the women and the kids, too.

 

 

 

psst: today I bought the Secret. I am so ashamed!.

[fatherpaul]

I asked Nirmala about this(I think?) today and here is what came up regarding the do good deeds question.

 

Also..this is my take on that line of thought at this time.

 

Your true nature is boundless,endless,unsurpassable,unending,unimaginable,unbelievable merit.

 

It's like..if you took all of the good merit in all the universes it doesn't come close to your true nature.

 

Your true nature..your SELF..is the source and destination of all of this. It is beyond words and concepts but the awakened ones sometimes are drawn to talk about it.

 

What seems to be the manifestation of this boundless ocean of compassion and love of the awakened ones coming from realizing there true nature is this thing called love.

 

This thing called love, or compassion, seems to be how ones who awaken to there true nature move in the world. Taoists talk about it like water. Water is humble, it moves to the lowest level, it flows effortlessly.

 

So..let's say the awakened being is like water. He or she(or it?) flows effortlessly providing love and support to sentient beings. They move to wherever they are drawn to help sentient beings wake up to there true nature.

 

So..what I asked this teacher today..is about love. It seems to love is sometimes easy, sometimes hard. But it also seems beings who are awake love everything. They love things they don't like as much as things they do like. They have this equal compassion for all.

 

We who arent awake. Or let's say not fully awake.We think we aren't there yet. We still have preferences. We still make-or have the illusion that we make-choices. I like that, I don't like that. She's nice, he's annoying, etc etc.

 

So by practicing doing good deeds..we begin to try to copy what the awakened ones do. I don't know if that's good or bad. It's a practice. I think of it like using training wheels on a bicycle before we can just ride the bike. Maybe you haven't realized that you and the universe are one but by selflessly giving, or helping someone else. Or loving things that you might not even think to love. It's like begining to practice what your true nature is like before you have actually woken up to it.

 

Don't get me wrong. Ime for people(myself included) waking up in this lifetime and getting to the really good stuff. I say when your awake you do what your natural self says to do. You are "one" and this oneness informs all your actions in life becasue you have so deeply realized it it could be no other way.

 

But for practical purpouses, most of us aren't there yet..so there are these precepts and teachings that say "do no harm", "practice compassion", etc.

 

But those are training wheels. Wake up to your true nature first and that's all just what is. Who cares if your karma is good or bad? Wake up and you see your an illusion!

 

From another persective being too focused on doing good deeds may help to enforce the illusion of seperate self. It's a subtle issue. I say who cares. Time is limited put as much effort as you can to awakening. Then you can figure out in future lifetimes(if they exist) about what constitiutes good or bad karma

 

Should this discussion still be on "The Secret" thread?

 

 

love is a misunderstood word

it seems to be one you understand

 

 

peace and happy pancakes,

paul

[freeform]

.

Edited March 12, 2022 by freeform

[Oolong Rabbit]

Am I just wrong because freeform excercise didn't work for me?

Ok, so I tried it:

Desire

A

. I want lots of women.

If I have A how would I be feeling? Whoa!

Keeping the same feeling what do I desire now?

Desire

B

. I want a family! I want a wife and kids!

If I had desire B how would I be feeling? Yesss!

Keeping the same feeling what do I desire now?

Desire

C

. I want lots of women...

 

So I suppose I have litterally a twisted heart, a shortcircuited spirituality, and a looping desire. Can I still be saved? And don't forget the women and the kids, too.

psst: today I bought the Secret. I am so ashamed!.

 

Okay, the Aristotlean exercise I had in mind was much more of an intellectual exercise than Freeform's:

 

Desire A: I want lots of women.

 

Is desire A an end in and of itself, or a means to another end?

It is a means to another end:

 

Desire B: Wife, kids and family

 

Is desire B an end in and of itself, or a means to an end?

It is the means to an end:

 

Desire C: The need love and be loved.

 

Is desire C an end in and of itself, or a means to an end?

It is the means to an end:

 

Desire D: Happiness

Is desire D an end in and of itself, or a means to an end?

Itis an end in and of itself

 

 

Using the above exercise most desires can be boiled down/reduced to happiness.

[freeform]

Okay, the Aristotlean exercise I had in mind was much more of an intellectual exercise than Freeform's:

 

Oolong - the excersises are very much similar - only, as you say, the Aristotlean one is intelectual - it allows a wider perspective on your initial desire.

 

The one I wrote is based on a principle called Metaprograming (programs that run programs that run programs etc) - and another principle called Parts Therapy (or Parts Integration) - it comes from a synthesis of two disceplines - Neuro Linguistic Programing and Gestalt Therapy.

 

The end result is the integration of the part you're working on. By integration I mean it dissolves into 'You' and not a separate part - and you're left with the ability to act out on the desire or not - it stops automatic behaviour and makes you more 'whole'. If the decision is to act out on it you'll have a much easier time because there will be no internal resistance, or conflict of interests.

 

You can use this process with parts of you that desire, with parts of you that sabotage, with parts of you that you're ashamed about, with parts that suffered trauma and 'protect' you by repeating negative patterns of behaviour etc...

 

At the end of the excersise the feeling that I get is the same that I have glimpses of in meditation and chi gong - a spacious sense of gentle bliss, a complete silence in the mind (for a good 30 minutes, with no meditation) and a lightness quality to my energy.

[Ian]

One thing I really dont get about karma is the good and bad thing...

 

I mean, good and bad only seems to exist in the mind, at least for me - from what I've experienced through the body and the heart (emotion) there is always a balance of good and bad...

 

"It is neither good nor bad, but thinking makes it so."

 

old Will knew it.

 

so good deeds and bad deeds - who makes the judgement?

 

Answer number one: I reckon there is a sort of morality based around whether your actions divide or unite you. For example generosity is good in that it implies an expanded view of yourself connected with others and their benefit.

 

So selfishness is not bad except in so far as it fosters the illusion of your separate self.

 

 

Answer number two: I'm told that there is ordinary good / bad karma and that the only difference is that while you're hanging about the fruits of good karma are less miserable to endure!

 

But, I'm further told, the only really good karma is, and I will mis-spell this, as I've never seen it written, kusala karma, that which occurs from genuine attempts to meditate in a non-karma-creating way.

[freeform]

Answer number one: I reckon there is a sort of morality based around whether your actions divide or unite you. For example generosity is good in that it implies an expanded view of yourself connected with others and their benefit.

 

That makes a lot of sense, thanks.

 

But, I'm further told, the only really good karma is, and I will mis-spell this, as I've never seen it written, kusala karma, that which occurs from genuine attempts to meditate in a non-karma-creating way.

 

could you say some more on this? what do you mean by "meditate in a non-karma-creating way"? Is it a specific way of meditating? (i.e. can you meditate in a karma creating way?) Or is it just meditating sincerely even if a part of you doesn't want to?

 

Is this info from Burgs? I've had a look at his site and I'm certainly drawn to him. Can't quite afford a retreat yet, but as soon as I can I'll check him out, he seems very genuine.

[Ian]

That makes a lot of sense, thanks.

could you say some more on this? what do you mean by "meditate in a non-karma-creating way"? Is it a specific way of meditating? (i.e. can you meditate in a karma creating way?) Or is it just meditating sincerely even if a part of you doesn't want to?

 

Have to get back to you on this.

Is this info from Burgs? I've had a look at his site and I'm certainly drawn to him. Can't quite afford a retreat yet, but as soon as I can I'll check him out, he seems very genuine.

 

No, from Sifu Yap. But Burgs is way cool. He's got weekend days coming up soon, if you want a taster.

[cloud recluse]

....Your great,round bowling ball shaped head full of questions!!

 

At last, I finally get the respect I have desired. My manifestation skills are truly awe inspiring

 

Regards,Cloud

 

The realm you are thinking of is Deva or God realm. They are not enlightened. They do live a life free of suffering, only enjoying...

 

Thanx Pero.

So,is it not possible that a Deva, or something similiar, could 'look' into our realm from its own perspective, & give us some well intentioned but somewhat inaccurate advice ? If all it experences is pleasure & instant gratification, could it not erroneously try & translate that into our terms with a simplistic "All is Manifestation" kind of message ?

 

Regards,Cloud

[林愛偉]

At last, I finally get the respect I have desired. My manifestation skills are truly awe inspiring

 

Regards,Cloud

Thanx Pero.

So,is it not possible that a Deva, or something similiar, could 'look' into our realm from its own perspective, & give us some well intentioned but somewhat inaccurate advice ? If all it experences is pleasure & instant gratification, could it not erroneously try & translate that into our terms with a simplistic "All is Manifestation" kind of message ?

 

Regards,Cloud

 

 

What an interesting turn of conversation.. hehehehe

They can and do take a peak. Whether they influence one or not is their own perrogative. Whether we listen or not is based on our capacity to do so..

Their ability to come out here is also based on their capacity(karma) to be able to do so.

 

Peace,

Aiwei

[三江源]

I'd really be interested to know what Yoda thinks about Abraham, and the question of "what if abraham is mistaken?"

 

I've been watching some Abraham videos lately, got intrigued by Esther in the film of The Secret.

 

I guess at the moment, it looks to me like what esther says, ultimately, is a very very intelligent ( ie palatable to this culture )way of drawing people onto a spiritual path of bliss and being in the moment.

[Pero]

Who is Abraham?

[Yoda]

Abraham is the entity formerly known as Prince. (actually, Abraham is the collection of entities that Esther allegedly channels who has pioneered the modern presentation of the philosophy of the law of attraction.)

 

Esther is often asked to de-Abraham her philosophy of the law of attraction to increase its appeal and she said it wouldn't work. To use the law of attraction, you have to have an appreciation of how the physical and non-physical realms interact with each other and channeling is a good example of that. Also, she says that channelling isn't a special gift but that anyone can channel anyone else, living or dead, whenever... it's a normal ability and the belief that it's impossible or very difficult to do so separates us from a tool 1000x more powerful than the Internet. (Imagine being able to tap into the wisdom of a tree, your ancestors, the Buddha, and your lineage all before lunch! Cheaper than the Internet too!)

 

Is Abraham a god realm deva issuing god realm limited advice? I came at Esther's philosophy from the perspective of a Tibetan Buddhist, so this was a major concern of mine, too. I don't really have a direct answer, but here are some thoughts:

 

It's interesting that different channels, gurus, ouija boards, etc say different things about the LOA, nature of the spirit realm, etc. Esther would say that if you put spiritual masters from different traditions, kids at various slumber parties, scientists, and terrorists in front of a divination tool like a ouija board they'd get a lot of different results... ouija board wouldn't budge for the scientist, it'd inaccurately gossip at the slumber party, assuming the terrorists were Vikings who believed in divination, it'd tell them to kick some ass, etc.

 

Everyone gets what they expect (ie LOA)... which makes the non-physical realm to look gossipy, silly, vengeful, kind, enlightened, etc. From what you get, you could assume that the terrorist was speaking to a demon, the kids were talking to a bored ex-pirate, Esther's students were talking to a deva, and the spiritual master was channeling her enlightened lineage. (While many traditions don't articulate their wisdom in terms of channeling their master or lineage, many do very explicitly and many more talk about taking constant inspiration from their lineage in every moment. Of course, many don't articulate this sort of thing in the slightest.)

 

(The kind of people who show up to Esther are not spiritual aspirants, they just want improvements in health, wealth, and love. So Abraham comes across as a deva/healer.)

 

 

Per Abraham, even the most funky demon that gets channelled/seen/experienced/etc is actually a very loving presence acting out a role necessitated by the LOA which is necessary part of the evolutionary process of this realm. (the same would apply to anyone you bump into whether human, animal, ghost, god, demigod,etc)

 

I know that's a pretty outrageous claim to make, but I've seen this at least alluded to before in different traditions.

 

In my mind, Abraham is your everyday Joe pitching in at a practical level of reality healing toothaches and heartaches.

 

Yoda