What principles do all Taoists hold in common?

[thelerner]

There is much disparity between religious/(traditional?) Taoists beliefs and philosophical ones. Taoism, it seems to me, contains a wide, at times, disparate group of beliefs. What are the core beliefs?

 

Bonus question. How much has Taoism picked up from other religions, Shamanism, Buddhism, Confucianism, Shinto and how much has it influenced them?

[Mikeb85]

There is much disparity between religious/(traditional?) Taoists beliefs and philosophical ones. Taoism, it seems to me, contains a wide, at times, disparate group of beliefs. What are the core beliefs?

 

Bonus question. How much has Taoism picked up from other religions, Shamanism, Buddhism, Confucianism, Shinto and how much has it influenced them?

 

If I were to venture a guess, I'd say the principles found in the Tao Te Ching and Chuang Tzu are the basis for most Taoists, but you're right in that there does seem to be a huge difference in beliefs.

 

It seems as though some Taoist sects have picked up alot from Buddhism, Confucianism and Shamanism, which has always confused me since Buddhism doesn't seem especially compatible, and the Chuang Tzu is quite critical of Confucianism and Shamanism, mocking both....

[Samurai Mountain man]

I can't form a sentence to reply. I wasn't even going to tell you the common principle, I was going to word something about the Tao, it piled up against my skull but when I tried typing it -and saying it- I found my words disolved before they were born.

 

Is that the common principle?

[taijistudent]

I think it is almost impossible to find common beliefs in Daoism. Fluidity and change are so much part of the nature of Daoism that to find anything fixed is quite difficult. Daoism is also very much favors individualistic paths which means each person is carving out their own belief system which in itself is constantly changing.

With this said, I would hazard to suggest that two common ideas that one finds in Daoism are:

 

1) Change

2) Opposites

[rene]

I can't form a sentence to reply. I wasn't even going to tell you the common principle, I was going to word something about the Tao, it piled up against my skull but when I tried typing it -and saying it- I found my words disolved before they were born.

 

Is that the common principle?

 

SMm, hi, nice post (-:

 

What you've described is common to those of us who breathe Tao.

 

IMO, what you've described is not common, among taoism, buddhism, and all the other -isms. That they all have very much to say, and do so frequently, about anything and everything and anyone, and what one should be doing and thinking, is what is common between them.

 

warm regards

[ChiDragon]

There is much disparity between religious/(traditional?) Taoists beliefs and philosophical ones. Taoism, it seems to me, contains a wide, at times, disparate group of beliefs. What are the core beliefs?

 

Bonus question. How much has Taoism picked up from other religions, Shamanism, Buddhism, Confucianism, Shinto and how much has it influenced them?

 

The former on the religious side are:

Of Nature

For Nature

By Nature

 

The philosophical side:

The scholars who are mainly concerned with the interpretation of the principles in the Tao Te Ching. They are the ontology, humanity and government.

 

The latter is too broad to say anything about it.

Edited April 12, 2013 by ChiDragon

[Taomeow]

The fundamentals shared by all taoist schools are tao (as wuji/Xiantian and taiji/Houtian), yin-yang, qi, Hetu, Luoshu, wuxing, bagua, I Ching, ganying.

 

And an infinite assortment of their derivatives. This is eternal because this is not made up by human authors. It's the operational principles of reality.

 

Laozi is a very late addition to taoism. Confucianism and Buddhism, ditto. Shamanism and the universal Goddess religion is the principal source -- one can say original taoism is a natural and smooth extension of the Goddess shamanism into the age of literacy, a refined shamanism of the civilized, of the literati. This transition happened with a mixing-in of Mesopotamian influences (very likely by force), and that's where it gets interesting... Everything that came later -- Confucianism, Buddhism, and arguably "philosophy of taoism" are further dilutions. The original brew, full strength, was not stomached well by hierarchical patriarchies of Mesopotamia and their multiple clones propagating in all directions (not exempting China), so one can say dilutions started then and there. But, mercifully, taoism did not throw the baby (the female baby, mother tao, the original Goddess religion of humankind) out with bathwater even though some serious messing with this water did take place.

[ChiDragon]

"Laozi is a very late addition to taoism."

Lao Tze's Taoism is different from other Taoism. He made the original definition of Taoism to redefine to distinguish from his Taoism.

Edited April 12, 2013 by ChiDragon

[ChiDragon]

There is virtue of human conduct(Confucian).

There is virtue of Tao(Lao Tze).

[三江源]

Ken Cohen :

 

 

Taoism is essentially Chinese, a combination of even earlier shamanism, called wu jiao in Chinese, and spiritual practices established by mountain hermits. These hermits were drawn to the beauty, power, and peace of nature. Some were former government employees who escaped from the chaos, intrigue, and aggression common during the early centuries B.C.E.. If they were successful in their quest for a deeper truth, they merged with the spirit of nature, achieved health and longevity, and became the realized sages that in Taoism are known as Immortals (Xian).

 

merge with the spirit of nature

 

 

is something all taoists are about, or they aint taoists.

[thelerner]

Ken Cohen :

 

 

 

merge with the spirit of nature

 

 

is something all taoists are about, or they aint taoists.

That's pretty good. Merge with the spirit of nature.. True without being too abstract. Gives a person something to bite into: Shamanistic without requiring a shaman ie instead of seeking out spirits to answer a question, ponder how nature itself handles it.

Edited April 12, 2013 by thelerner

[三江源]

Spirit of nature answers every time, so long as we listen.

 

[lienshan]

The one and only principle that all Taoists hold in common is

that we all use the chinese character 道 (Tao in english)

when referring to "what cannot be explained".

 

We are in all other aspects different and thanks for that

[Wu Ming Jen]

The spirit of nature shows us everything we need to know. The fact that water sinks and fire moves up are not mental concepts it just is and we can use the same principle to understand other things. When we get involved in preconceived ideas and mental concepts ie putting our own thoughts over nature the trouble begins. For me it is the principles that is the glue that which works, effective, true and so on.

 

Extreme heat on the human body produces a numbing effect. Extreme cold causes a burning sensation so the mentalist thinks this can not be right. I will prove there is something wrong with mental perception and here it is.... man is not the measure of all things.

[ChiDragon]

The one and only principle that all Taoists hold in common is

that we all use the chinese character 道 (Tao in english)

when referring to "what cannot be explained".

 

We are in all other aspects different and thanks for that

 

道(Tao, tao) means "that's the way it is" whether one can explain it or not.

Edited April 14, 2013 by ChiDragon

[Harmonious Emptiness]

I would also say virtue, but then some have misunderstood and extracted seemingly out of place phrases from Daoist literature, and followed these misconceptions on a path away from Dao while thinking they are Daoists. So it's really a difficult question to answer accurately.

[寒月 Hanyue]

There is much disparity between religious/(traditional?) Taoists beliefs and philosophical ones. Taoism, it seems to me, contains a wide, at times, disparate group of beliefs. What are the core beliefs?

 

Bonus question. How much has Taoism picked up from other religions, Shamanism, Buddhism, Confucianism, Shinto and how much has it influenced them?

 

To throw in my 2 cents...

 

Reciprocal-relationship, the interconnected weave of all things. This to me is the fundamental 'belief' [if that is the right word] that underpins even the notion of Dao.

 

Dao is a conceptual knowing born from exploration into the binding relationships of all things. If you dive into that ocean you have to swim in all directions, as Taomeow points out, there is xian-tian (wuji) and there is hou-tian (taiji). The Chinese cosmology is a refinement of earlier animist beliefs and shamanic practices that existed in that part of the world for a long time before 'Daoism'. The world-view of many still existing, but certainly fragmented indigenous peoples also bear a similar stamp of a common root.

 

Exploring what existed before and what has come after is an enquiry that exists into today, it is just the view and tools used to approach it that vary so dramatically.

 

There are no 'beliefs' just the principles found that explained the relationships, do you believe in gravity? Though of course we can argue that anything of the phenomenal world is intimately tied to our 'beliefs' about its 'laws', however such beliefs are certainly different from those based upon faith found in religion. Regardless, this is why knowledge and wisdom of both the phenomenal world and that which lies behind/before it, the Dao, was sought.

 

Best,

Edited April 14, 2013 by snowmonki

[三江源]

I would also say virtue, but then some have misunderstood and extracted seemingly out of place phrases from Daoist literature, and followed these misconceptions on a path away from Dao while thinking they are Daoists. So it's really a difficult question to answer accurately.

Do you mean that the concept of Daoism is bastardised beyond all recognition?

[shanlung]

I can't form a sentence to reply. I wasn't even going to tell you the common principle, I was going to word something about the Tao, it piled up against my skull but when I tried typing it -and saying it- I found my words disolved before they were born.

 

 

HA HA HA HA HAHA HA HAAAA!!!

 

I know the words and I know the Tao.

But being an Idiot, I just cannot put them together in a coherent way to impart what I do know to all of you.

 

Idiotic Taoist

[Harmonious Emptiness]

Do you mean that the concept of Daoism is bastardised beyond all recognition?

 

No, just open to misinterpretation, like all systematized moralities which are, or have been, misused to justify unjust behaviour.

[Samurai Mountain man]

Idiotic Taoist

I know it was like bbbbbbhuuuaahh! Damn I can't say anything!

[ChiForce]

Tao and the Dharma. Done. Next question.

[thelerner]

Tao and the Dharma. Done. Next question.

Not so fast. What's Tao and Dharma; keep it under 500 pages .

[Taomeow]

Dharma is a buddhist concept.

[ChiForce]

Dharma is a buddhist concept.

Hehehehehe....HISTORICALLY speaking, Buddhist teaching influenced so much on Taoism is that you can't even distinguish the two. To say that the teaching of the Dharma is not Tao is totally, historically inaccurate. To say Dharma isn't Tao is also wrong. Anyway......moving on.......