Does anyone have an experience with Traditional African Religions, or Traditional Afro-Caribbean Religions?

[Xienkula1]

Hey everyone,

 

Im just wondering if anyone on here has had some in depth experience of Traditional African Religions, anything from Ifa, Fa, Vodoun, Sanse, Santeria, Umbanda, Obeah, Condomble. I have been very interested in these traditions for quite some time, but have had trouble meeting people trained in these Arts, and in the Hermetics forum Old Green made a suggestion I might post something here and someone might be willing to share their experience. I am hoping and praying that someone is here. Ive tried before to connect via internet websites, but this has proven quite unreliable. So any suggestions?

Ashe!

[suninmyeyes]

Not in depth expirience over here .

Have been to a vodoo 'doctor' (thats how he was called although I went for divination only ) reccomended by Jamaican friends of mine about 17 years ago and it was interesting and a bit wierd . Wierd in a way that I found out that he does really wierd style healings .

 

Where are you based ?

So peolpe can give you some suggestions .

 

For example if you go to the place like Benin surley you wont have much troubles finding a Vodoo priest .

Here is a documentary that has some interesting basic info on Temple of Python in Benin:

 

 

In Brasil it is not hard to get into Candomble at all , same Haiti and Vodoun .. but it depends where are you and how far you want to travel .

 

I find reading about African traditions really interseting , but all this animal sacrifice is not my thing practisewise .

Edited April 13, 2013 by suninmyeyes

[skydog]

shaking medicine by bradford keeney is pretty powerful for me

[Xienkula1]

Not in depth expirience over here .

Have been to a vodoo 'doctor' (thats how he was called although I went for divination only ) reccomended by Jamaican friends of mine about 17 years ago and it was interesting and a bit wierd . Wierd in a way that I found out that he does really wierd style healings .

 

Where are you based ?

So peolpe can give you some suggestions .

depends where are you and how far you want to travel .

 

I find reading about African traditions really interseting , but all this animal sacrifice is not my thing practisewise .

Thanks Suninmyeyes! Ok so Interesting Vodoo doctor you met, would be curious to know more. I am based in Montreal, and though theres a big Haitian community and even Cameroonian community, there is a load of stigma about this stuff, so most are unwilling to open up. Theres Labelledeesse a Haitian mambo here in montreal who has a website, but I want an opportunity to meet in person before committing to any kind of reading or initiation. but as I said very elusive. I agree with the animal sacrifice, but not every practitioner does that, as I understood, but that would be veering from tradition..

[BaguaKicksAss]

I found this one: http://www.labelledeesse.com/home.html Not sure if it is the same one you already found or not. Looks legit from the entire 30 seconds I used to asses such things... No reason to not get a reading before meeting in person. Readings are usually low cost, and low risk. They are also often required before you get to meet in person. Email works too though I'm sure. Initiation? They don't give those away easily, you have to prove yourself first. Initiations also tend to be very expensive, bulls cost money, dummers cost money.

 

Now traveling to Haiti, you can find lots of folks, but most will just rip you off and pretend, since compared with them we are billionaires. Sort of like when I see the Japanese tourists come off the cruise ships here, all the sheisters are there waiting to help them in any way they can! Research before you go works though. The catch with long distance is that you don't have an in person Mambo/Houngan to guide you and teach you after. The initiation is just one small part. I have run into folks who have been initiated into the various ATRs and unfortunately had no teaching after, and could not work the tradition very well .

 

Hmm, there is also this: http://www.upi.com/Top_News/World-News/2010/09/27/Voodoo-practitioners-go-public-in-Montreal /UPI-35271285615224/ maybe that group is still around?

 

I most definitely don't have in depth experience, but I'm in real good with Papa Google .

 

Edit: here's another idea... I have noticed that when I work with one of my fave Lwa that others from that path start to notice me, and look when they pass me walking down the street. When I'm not working with them for awhile, this doesn't happen. So perhaps pick a fave if you haven't already and get to work, then you will likely start to meet others.

Edited April 13, 2013 by BaguaKicksAss

[RiverSnake]

I was recently listening to this podcast with Andrieh Vitimus. His story of how he became involved with Voudon is quite interesting. If you email him he might beable to give you some direction.

 

http://occultofpersonality.net/podcast-64-hands-on-chaos-magic-with-andrieh-vitimus/

 

My 2 cents, Peace

Edited April 13, 2013 by OldGreen

[suninmyeyes]

It is worthwhile to mention that before this Voodoo Doctor does reading for people he first consults the spirit guide , and this usually means that white people ar not allowed for reading . Interstingly spirit told him that I have black blood in me ( well not to my knowledge and dont look black at all ) and that it is OK to come for divination .

 

So just saying this as example , becouse you never know the reasons someone may have for not initiating ...

 

Besides lets not forget about Colonialisation and the atrocities white people induced on African people and continent .

AAAaand lets not forget converting people in Africa into Christianity , which is still so dominant and done in such SNEAKY ways . Sick, sick ,sick .

Naturally precoutions and strong defense mechanisam have been developed , plus with certain initiations a person must undergo certain rituals which are suitable for certain type of psyche , plus a lot of voodoo stuff is oral tradition -- no internet initiations , no written stuff .

 

One good book to read is Patrice Malidome Some 'Of water and spirit' and get idea about initiations and whys .

In the begging the book is good and OK , but it took me a while to read first 20 , 30 pages . Afterwards it is really good , couldnt put it down .

He writes a lot about initiatiation he undergoes as a rites of passage in Burkina Faso , something that used to be only oral tradition before . Initiation is hard core rigorous and extremly interesting account to read about .

 

P.M.Some has been one of those unfortunate kids who are abducted as small boy into Jesuit mission school , where he was brainwashed for 15 years and SEVERLY misterated . He further talks about sexual , mental and physical abuse going on in the school and torturous means of disciplining and teaching .

 

Anyway he was so scared and totally changed on psychic level that when he finaly did manage get back to his people they almost did not accept him back becouse in order to stay with them he needs to undergo transforming adulthood initiation and there wrer strong chances that he may die during the initiation .

 

Just had a thought -- why not ask around Afro Carribean comunity , even in Capoeira places some people practise Candomble . Candomble is pretty open to all .

Thanks Suninmyeyes! Ok so Interesting Vodoo doctor you met, would be curious to know more. I am based in Montreal, and though theres a big Haitian community and even Cameroonian community, there is a load of stigma about this stuff, so most are unwilling to open up. Theres Labelledeesse a Haitian mambo here in montreal who has a website, but I want an opportunity to meet in person before committing to any kind of reading or initiation. but as I said very elusive. I agree with the animal sacrifice, but not every practitioner does that, as I understood, but that would be veering from tradition..

Edited April 13, 2013 by suninmyeyes

[Harmonious Emptiness]

Striking up conversation with some cab drivers might get you somewhere, but probably just get you scammed. In my experience, people from the regions where this stuff is common always have stories - maybe you've heard of the dishes and silverware crossing the street? There are a number of individual practitioners, but I don't know about any communities.

 

You could talk to owners working in African deco and drums stores, though I would expect to be rejected since these things are as misunderstood as they are misused. Unfortunately, it seems that the negative stereotypes have led to the negative sides being more commonly used for gain by non-practitioners from the same ethnicities. It's not uncommon for Hatians to have some way of contacting a reliable priestess to remove curses, but again, to find a community of practitioners would be like uncovering a spy network.

 

You might find someone at the drum circle, not sure...

[Xienkula1]

Interesting interview with Vitimis recounting his work becoming a Voudou hounsi in Haiti, and his interweaving of Chaos Magick and Ceremonial Magick. Thanks Old Green for the two cents I will try contacting him and see what happens. Thanks also Baguakicksass for confirming Labelledeesse she's in the west island and has a contact number that was not listed earlier. I can also try this avenue and see about a reading, though I was also really interested in Ifa reading, but this would be very interesting and helpful at this time. Also thanks to Suninmyeyes for the info on the Voodoo doctor session and the details on Malidoma Some, I am familiar with some of his work but not "Of Water, of Spirit" I will check it out. I will also check out some santeria stores and capueira studios There's also this dude who has some very interesting but somewhat humorous videos on youtube

 

I have tried out some of his chants and they do seem to work.

Thanks also to Harmonious Emptiness suggestion to try African stores, and yes I will definitely bear rejection in mine. I almost had a connection with a lady who ran a healthfood store, who was into tradition of the spirits from St-Lucia and her husband practiced Ifa. She said she would ask him about doing a reading, but then the store closed. I ran into her again after and I asked her if we could stay in touch, but she just said trust the spirit and we will see each other when we do.

Edited April 14, 2013 by Xienkula1

[Xienkula1]

Hmmm Ive checked this guy out before http://www.spiritualtools.org/Divination-Consultation/Guardian-Orisha-Life-Path-Reading-p21.html what's your read on this Baguakicksass? Or any one else that wants to chime in...

Edited April 14, 2013 by Xienkula1

[madMUHHH]

shaking medicine by bradford keeney is pretty powerful for me

 

Seconded! Actually I haven't read the shaking medicine book itself, but I am currently reading this, also by Bradford Keeney:

 

The Bushman Way of Tracking God: The Original Spirituality of the Kalahari People

http://www.amazon.com/The-Bushman-Way-Tracking-God/dp/1582702578/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1365956824&sr=8-1&keywords=The+Bushman+Way+of+Tracking+God

 

I've only read like the first 2 and a half chapters, but even reading just that has triggered some powerful experiences for me. It's almost a bit scary actually.

Anyways, his or the Bushmen's take on spiritually is highly interesting in my opinion and definitely worth discussing.

[BaguaKicksAss]

Training with someone who is not local will be useless to you in my opinion, I have said this before. While I am far far from an expert in this stuff, I have been around enough to know that you are wasting your time trying to train with someone not local, unless you plan on flying to Haiti or Brasil or whatever twice per year for the next 20 years.

[Xienkula1]

Training with someone who is not local will be useless to you in my opinion, I have said this before. While I am far far from an expert in this stuff, I have been around enough to know that you are wasting your time trying to train with someone not local, unless you plan on flying to Haiti or Brasil or whatever twice per year for the next 20 years.

Yes, I got that part, I am still looking at the local level, labelledeesse is my best bet, I checked this article out http://www.mcgilldaily.com/2011/11/among-the-vodouisants/ which concerns her group. I tried to contact, but the number is defunct on the website...so I tried the email. We'll see what happens and I<ll try the other options for locality see what works out.

[BaguaKicksAss]

Hmmm, do you practice any form of divination? This may help you figure out which ones are good (for you) and which are not. Even if someone really knows their stuff, it doesn't always mean it is the right path for you in particular. Also there are times when one teacher may know less than another, but be the most perfect match for yourself and your learning style.

 

I'm guessing that you are already working with a few of the ATR spirits on your own? You can also ask them about each person to narrow it down a bit. Now if you don't work with any yet, perhaps try it out while you are waiting to find a teacher.

[Xienkula1]

I work with I Ching, so Im going to do a reading and see what comes up, has never failed so far, and has always proven quite on the mark. I prefer it to tarot, I just seem to have more affinity. I have worked with Papa Legba and he has been quite kind and helpful, so I will ask him again. I have worked with Simbi Makaya and he's also been helpful before....Maybe it's time to do some ceremony. I ve also worked with Bradford Keeney and had a correspondance with him. I wanted to meet him but he asked me to get my ass down to New Orleans, which wasn't possible at the time due to having no passport and being homeless in a situation similar condition to the one Vitimus described. I did connect with Joe Hiscott and Camille Reinhardt here in Montreal who have a wonderful Shake going, and there experienced some wonderful group shaking and healing....

[BaguaKicksAss]

Perhaps setting up an altar for one or both, then daily altar work.

 

What folks are looking for in a prospective student/person to join their house, is that the person is genuine, and also favored by the spirits. Easier to be favored if one says hello (and gives rum lol) on a regular basis.

 

Good idea bout Legba, as he is the one who opens the crossroads.... to opportunities.

[Xienkula1]

Perhaps setting up an altar for one or both, then daily altar work.

 

What folks are looking for in a prospective student/person to join their house, is that the person is genuine, and also favored by the spirits. Easier to be favored if one says hello (and gives rum lol) on a regular basis.

 

Good idea bout Legba, as he is the one who opens the crossroads.... to opportunities.

Funny all this is coming up, I kept a dedicated altar practice (not Vodoun) religiously without missing practice everyday, an hour of non-stop chanting and full lotus for a year and a half. It was very strong, and I was so un-grounded, my eyes so shiny, bright and full of energy it was difficult to function, plus I got lots of weird stares. It was tough to handle. This was during my homeless point. During my roaming I had to sacrifice my picture which I had been working with for years, and in my last move, I never really set up my altar again(a full one), somewhat pissed off that the Spirits weren't helping me more. yes yes I know this is the wrong attitude, but it made me go back to some simpler more elementary practices which actually started to fortify the grounding basics in my life, steady work, steady home etc...so I focused my spiritual efforts into grounded practical work and this shifted things. However, you mention the altar, and I have been missing tending my altar offering the water, cleansing it and changing it regularly. Yet now that I have a home, I have been reluctant to do it, partly because I am worried about neighbors hearing me chant and smelling the incense thinking I am a total freak, although they probably already do lol well yes another thing to work towards. Though I miss connecting with my Spirits, it's time to reincarnate it

 

Edited April 14, 2013 by Xienkula1

[Harmonious Emptiness]

I highly recommend this book.

 

Rites of Rhythm: the music of cuba

 

"The music of Cuba is primordial and poetic: steeped in sex, drenched in mysticism, and at once exotic and familiar. Jory Farr, whose articles about Cuban music earned him a Pulitzer Prize nomination in 1990, has carried on a love affair with the culture and the country for over a decade, returning again and again to research and experience firsthand Cuba's musical heritage as both a journalist and a musician in his own right."

 

Part of it is the author's adventures looking for an authentic Santeria gathering, being told he has curses by people who want him to pay to remove them, and the information shared and learned by him when he meets a man who makes the sacred conga drums for ritual. Beautiful book. You will be inspired.

 

And of course, be sure to see "The Divine Horsemen: the living gods of Haiti." which shows the real side of Voodoo, where there is/are no evil god(s), only gods of peace, wisdom, and strength.

 

Remember... charlatans will always show what the money's looking for, good or bad....

[BaguaKicksAss]

As well as Maya Darren's awesome book to go along with that movie.

[BaguaKicksAss]

Funny all this is coming up, I kept a dedicated altar practice (not Vodoun) religiously without missing practice everyday, an hour of non-stop chanting and full lotus for a year and a half. It was very strong, and I was so un-grounded, my eyes so shiny, bright and full of energy it was difficult to function, plus I got lots of weird stares. It was tough to handle. This was during my homeless point. During my roaming I had to sacrifice my picture which I had been working with for years, and in my last move, I never really set up my altar again(a full one), somewhat pissed off that the Spirits weren't helping me more. yes yes I know this is the wrong attitude, but it made me go back to some simpler more elementary practices which actually started to fortify the grounding basics in my life, steady work, steady home etc...so I focused my spiritual efforts into grounded practical work and this shifted things. However, you mention the altar, and I have been missing tending my altar offering the water, cleansing it and changing it regularly. Yet now that I have a home, I have been reluctant to do it, partly because I am worried about neighbors hearing me chant and smelling the incense thinking I am a total freak, although they probably already do lol well yes another thing to work towards. Though I miss connecting with my Spirits, it's time to reincarnate it

 

That is one thing an in person teacher (or well any teacher that is any good for that matter) helps with, is making sure you keep grounded, no matter what your practice is. I can see why you would be more than a little hesitant to do altar work again! I find that when I'm pissed at the spirits for not helping me with such and such, asking them why they didn't help leads to some great insights. At least due to the homelessness any ATR folks would be much more likely to give you the time of day over most white folks who have never had to worry about all that much in their lives, you know compared with say earthquakes and missing many meals and no decent hospitals Going through hell, and coming out of it stronger changes a person. If you made it through that just fine, you can pretty much get through anything. I have found that time and time again folks who have not had many hardships make for pretty weak magicians! They also will often quit as soon as a test or two from the path comes along.

 

With altar work, you can always just stick with setting one up, just to put out candles and enhance the practical side of things. This still helps the spirit connection thing, and gives you more of a taste of the path.

 

On a side note, I noticed some posts from peple who practice the various ATR paths here on these forums. Try a search maybe and see if you can contact some folks.

[suninmyeyes]

I highly recommend this book.

 

Rites of Rhythm: the music of cuba

Book has been ordered online ! Thank you .

So perfect for my mood right now , looking forward to it .

 

PS Maya Darren rocks .

[Xienkula1]

Thanks for the link to Rites of Rhythm: the music of Cuba, I will try to get my hands on it. I have been wanting to watch Divine Horseman again for quite some time but could not download it, thanks for that! I have read much about Maya Daren but need to get the official book. The documentary was quite inspiring, there's another one I have watched the trailer for buying the spirit

but need to google harder so I can find the full movie. I found another link

for the Montreal group which seems to be in Repentigny, the outskirts of Montreal. Hmmmm....I hope we can have an interface. Homelessness and joblessness yes here in Montreal, but this is not the same as being homeless elsewhere, and is nowhere near the level of suffering in Haiti. It was a taste of hell that most of the world is going through and it is utterly heartbreaking. It can be so easy to take things for granted in life in western civilization....not anymore. I will do a search on the forum for ATR and see what happens, thanks again BKA!

[Maan]

Can the ATRs be used to attain States like henosis or nirbija samadhi?

[Xienkula1]

Do you have any experiece of ATRs Maan, and if so what? In Vodou it seems to be about oneness between the Lwa and its steed, and through this oneness between steed and rider, information can travel from Lwa to humans...probably participants a kind of group unity, as in all group ceremonies, maybe in other ATRs they do practice contemplative meditation and achieve such states.

[Xienkula1]

''Returning to Indianapolis from Africa recently set in motion a flood of ideas about howmeditation relates to the indigenous African traditions. My thoughts turned to two African shamans.

The first was Credo Mutwa whose book Zulu shaman mentions his meditation practice taught to him by his shaman teachers. His instructions were to sit, follow the breath and be aware of a special energy that resided in the body. He called this energy umbilini. Theumbilini he mentions is more than reminiscent of kundalini as itis explained in the writings of Gopi Krishna of India and other yogis. These two words, umbilini and kundalini, may have some ancient linguistic connection.

The second shaman is Malidoma Some. This shaman’s experiences during his initiation, something he details in his book Of water and the spirit, are reminiscent of many stories told about meditating yogis. Malidoma, intellectually trained by the time of his initiation, directed to set in front of a tree and meditate on it, fabricated responses to his elders regarding what he saw. Freeing his mind from of intellectual baggage, he finally got into the practice. It was then, confronted with a vision of the tree as goddess, that his elders confirmed that his findings was accurate."

So perhaps there are modern Voodouisants who incorporate meditation and certainly Kemetic meditation is practiced but this is arguably due to post-modern synthesis and therefore constitutes a non-traditional approach. However, as noted above there is some kind of traditional African Meditation which has explored states perhaps similar to nirbija and henosis....though only three beings realised in those statse through their various means having that dialogue could possibly confirm it...However you raise an interesting question and I thank you.

 

http://www.examiner.com/article/meditation-and-indigenous-africa

Edited April 15, 2013 by Xienkula1