Shapeshifting

[ChiForce]

You are hiding from my purely HYPOTHETICAL question

Hiding from what? I have no personal experiences in them. I have never witnessed in any of these transformations. I dream of plenty of my animal spirits (my deceased dog, two headed green snake, bears, eagle and eagle totem pole, and birds). You can say that I almost feel like I can speak to birds. Oh, cats. I once encountered a cat transformed into a heavy set woman and she gave me a hug. I think I knew who she was (a deceased person I came to know indirectly). This was a dream or vision, fyi. I am not taking these visions literally like some of the posters here. I understand them as consciousness energy and wisdom. Like I said, show me a youtube clip. Ironically, youtube has plenty of these new age video clips from UFOs to Enlightenment. Yet, I haven't been able to find a clip about this transformation. Odd.

Edited April 16, 2013 by ChiForce

[Birch]

Most of the experiences I had around kundalini were of this type but had nothing to do with drugs. I was under full understanding (thanks to TTB's BTW) that it was kundalini related. Does that mean, actually, what does that mean? I suspect had I gone to a doctor, he would have given me some drugs, hahaha.

[DragonsNectar69k]

It is very possible depending on the individual. One can detach from their body and 'possess' the body of an animal believe it or not. For those who practice the dark arts, animal sending involves this very thing of going out of body and then becoming one with whatever animal and attacking your victim. This is usually done to hide one's identity, very cowardly. Mind you, an experienced shaman can do this with certain herbs that heightened consciousness as well. It is a double edge sword sort of thing. You will also develop karma with said animal. Many in the shamanic traditions usually have a 'power' animal that they associate with. Mind you, if the victim kills the animal in 'real time' or in a dream, the attacker has a very high risk of getting hurt or even killed and not being able to go back into their body. Definitely not something I would condone even doing, due to the risk involved. It can be a great experience to learn and grow though, but truly depends on one's own inherited character and sense of self.

 

With that said, it is also very possible to do in a lucid dream. For some reason I am seeing a black panter in my mind due to this discussion. lolz.

 

Looked up panther..

 

Yea f*ck....

Panther holds the secrets of worlds that are unseen and are associated with lunar energies. Within the darkness of night resides the truth of creation. Black panthers have great mysticism associated with them. They represent the life and power of the night. They can show us how to welcome the darkness and rouse the light within it. Those with this power animal contain knowledge of a galactic origin, and have a responsibility to look after and respect this knowledge. Caution must be used when sharing it with others. When the student is ready the teacher appears, and vice versa. If the student isn't ripe the information given could trigger negative consequences.

 

Animal sending is BAD! Don' do it! I have never done it, but yea. Thanks black panther!

Edited April 16, 2013 by DragonsNectar69k

[Birch]

Maybe my dog in park post is still around. I was sitting on a bus and boom, a split second.

Or maybe it's better my dog in the park post is no longer around:-)

 

Belief ought not to come into it.

[Sloppy Zhang]

I think ChiForce's skepticism is healthy to consider, especially so in spiritual communities, where many take skepticism to be a sign of a closed mind or an angry person.

 

On the flip side, there is no way that ChiForce can say "this person did NOT shapeshift into a bird and fly away, so-and-so was obviously on drugs and then provided you a biased second hand account to you, which you are then giving us thirdhand." Because ChiForce wasn't there and for all any of us know (since no one was there) a person really DID turn into a PHYSICAL bird and PHYSICALLY flied away.

 

Now I think a more accurate statement would be that, given the every day experiences that most of us encounter, and the very real physical obstacles that human face on a day to day basis (inability of flight being one of them, or else why would we rely so heavily on the air and automotive industries, except for very long distances where we might get tired?), it is UNLIKELY that a person physically turned into a bird and flew away.

 

Still possible? You bet. Likely given the day-to-day experiences of the aggregate human population? Er, no. Given our knowledge and aggregate experiences of the effects of drugs on human perception, likelihood that person's experience was drug induced, or at least part of an altered state of perception (whether drug induced or just very groggy from staying up too late or waking up too early, or being asleep completely)... you see where I'm going with this.

 

There is a common convention that says that the burden of proof lies on the person making the claim. I could ask this forum to prove I am NOT Hugh Jackman posting on this internet forum in between shoots for The Wolverine 2. But such a feat would be incredibly time consuming and would be (given your personal access to Hugh Jackman's- I mean my- whereabouts) nigh impossible.

 

And so, for the betterment of all parties involved, it is not unreasonable (in fact, is HIGHLY reasonable) that this forum expect me to post a video of myself, Hugh Jackman, saying hello to all of you bums, and until such a time as that evidence is produced, you are well within your rights to disbelieve my complete and totally honest claim that I am Hugh Jackman.

 

Now it would be one thing if I said "yeah guys, I'm Hugh Jackman, take it or leave it."

 

But all too often in the meditation/spiritual communities the stakes are much higher.

 

People claim abilities of physical transformation, healing, energetic detection, control, remote viewing, and the list goes on and on and on. Any single ability which, even if only applicable in the RAREST of circumstances, would produce a HUGELY POSITIVE impact on society at large, not only on a personal betterment scale, but on a societal scale as it broadens our view of science, our existence of the universe, and the laws within which we live.

 

And, to make matters WORSE, people put the burden of proof on the skeptical party (who, in the truest sense of skepticism, should (and admittedly many people don't) withhold judgment towards EITHER SIDE until appropriate evidence is weighed and, EVEN THEN, should be open to contradictory evidence should it appear further down the line), claiming "well how do you know I did NOT do XYZ feat which, if not a miracle, lies way outside the bounds of the everyday experience of the aggregate masses? You must be an non-believer and have closed energy channels/asshole you should open your mind/first chakra"

 

To FURTHER complicate matters is the fact that humans are VERY easy to fool. Heck, we fool ourselves ALL OF THE TIME: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cognitive_bias

 

How many times have I tried to reign a horse in energetically and it DIDN'T work?

 

How many times did I tried to energetically trace a mouse's path and I DIDN'T catch it until it was ON MY HEAD?

 

How many times did I TOTALLY KNOW YOU WERE GOING TO SAY THAT and it turns out you DIDN'T SAY THAT AT ALL!!!???

 

No one remembers when they failed to be special, when their spirit did not act on this physical earth, when their god did not come down and bless them at the craps table. But they sure as hell remember when those things DID happen, and that's total proof that they happened.

 

The final scenario is people claim these feats and say "well I'm not interested in proving it to anyone, so there." Well that's all fine and dandy. But in light of the fact that you can EASILY FOOL YOURSELF (as outlined in the Wikipedia article on Cognitive Bias), then (dare I state my opinion here) it should be part of your spiritual practice to prove these feats/events/happenings to yourself objectively, to at least determine that you are not fooling yourself, regardless of whether you have any interest in making claims in real life or on line.

 

Because let's get real, we're all kind of gullible.

Edited April 16, 2013 by Sloppy Zhang

[Birch]

This is GREAT, we have Hugh Jackman on the forum

 

--kidding--

 

Nice to read you again Mr Sloppy

[manitou]

I've noticed something about these strange phenomena - it's all about the mental state you're in to experience it.

 

When I roped the stallion (who had just jumped the fence of the corral because i was running with him on the other side of the fence, he got real excited), I was in a total state of panic because I felt that I was responsible for him escaping. He wasn't my horse, he belonged to a friend of mine. My mindset couldn't have been more earnest. That's when the only thing I could think to do was to 'tap into a memory of him being roped' (hopefully he had one) and that was my intent. I hurled the invisible thing at him and he skidded to a stop and let me walk up the 'rope' to him.

 

Another time, my husband Joe was knocking on someone's door, standing on her porch and waiting for her to come out. When she did, her normally brown eyes were a real foggy blue, like a blind woman. Again, his mental state was completely open, just waiting for her to open the door.

 

Some months later, I was knocking on the door of a friend of ours, an elderly lady. Nothing on my mind, just expecting her to come to the door. When she opened the door, there was blood welling up within her eyes, and some drops of blood had splashed down onto her cheeks. I was shocked and turned away quickly, and said "Nancy! What's wrong with your eyes?", but then when I looked back up at her there was no blood. It was gone, poof. Several days later she died of a stroke.

 

They were all illusions, but not really. It really is a parallel universe of sorts we can tap into, but the mindset apparently must be just so. As I think of the two occurrences where we knocked at the door, both Joe and I were in a state of no-thinking expectation (for someone to come to the door). As to the stallion, maybe my intent was incredibly strong because I felt it was my responsibility that he got loose. I couldn't possibly have had more desire.

Edited April 16, 2013 by manitou

[三江源]

They were all illusions, but not really.

Visions is the word, isnt it. Visions of a deeper reality.

[Lindelani Mnisi]

Do animals ever 'shapeshift' into humans?

[Sloppy Zhang]

I've noticed something about these strange phenomena - it's all about the mental state you're in to experience it.

 

When I roped the stallion (who had just jumped the fence of the corral because i was running with him on the other side of the fence, he got real excited), I was in a total state of panic because I felt that I was responsible for him escaping. He wasn't my horse, he belonged to a friend of mine. My mindset couldn't have been more earnest. That's when the only thing I could think to do was to 'tap into a memory of him being roped' (hopefully he had one) and that was my intent. I hurled the invisible thing at him and he skidded to a stop and let me walk up the 'rope' to him.

 

....

 

As to the stallion, maybe my intent was incredibly strong because I felt it was my responsibility that he got loose. I couldn't possibly have had more desire.

 

And yet, how many people all over the world, heck, how many times have you, been in similar heightened states, had similar states of panic, had a similarly strong (if not stronger) desire/intent, but your desire/intent did not manifest?

 

Is it possible you truly did energetically rope a horse? It's possible. Is it possible that the event of the horse being "pulled" by you coincided with your conscious awareness of your strong intent, and solidified that memory in your mind as evidence? It's possible. Is it possible you didn't energetically rope that horse, and he just thought "oh hey, looks like manitou wants me to come back. Well we were having fun running, so why the heck not." It's possible.

 

If we (believe we) understand the mechanism behind these actions, then how do we develop that mechanism? How do we consciously call on it? How do we repeat it? How do we show it again and again, if not just to ourselves, to others?

 

You had an intent to rope a horse and the horse complied as if it were being roped. What if we tried that one more time, ten more times? With other horses? In other scenarios? In different mental/energetic states?

 

What separates your intent/desire from every other time you had an intention/desire and it did NOT happen? What separates your intent/desire from other people who every day intend/desire things that don't occur?

 

An outside observer might not have the energetic development to see your energy rope. But anyone who is capable of sight will be able to see a horse complying with you as if it were being roped, and after seeing these types of actions formed, will see there is an uncanny correlation between your invisible/energy ropes, and the horse acting like they're roped.

 

Just as there is an uncanny correlation between letting go of something, and it moving towards the ground.

Edited April 16, 2013 by Sloppy Zhang

[manitou]

Sloppy - my head is spinning from your questions, but they are good ones.

 

You had to be there. He skidded. I omitted that I led him back across the highway, stopped traffic as well, with the invisible rope, and put him back into his corral.

 

This is just me. It's all Mind. One Mind. Once we figure out how to truly use it, we are capable of anything.

 

And WE are the thinker.

[Sloppy Zhang]

Hi Manitou,

 

I'm not denying that I had to be there, and I'm not deny that what you said happened happened.

 

I am, however, trying to point out some nuances.

 

Did you corral him and stop traffic with the invisible rope? Or did you have the intent to pull him back (possible with a rope or not a rope) and, concurrently, traffic stopped around you and the horse obeyed. To turn a phrase, correlation does not imply causation.

 

I'm wondering if it is possible that you actually DIDN'T corral him with a rope. Maybe he was a nice horse who liked you and played along. Maybe the people on the road didn't want to run over a horse and human combo.

 

And maybe this lead you to a cognitive bias in which you remember this scene because it validated your energetic rope hypothesis.

 

Or maybe you really DID pull him in with an energetic rope!

 

It's kind of a hard point for me to make. I'm not saying you're wrong. But I'm not saying you're right, either.

 

My position is that we should ALL ask those questions above for ANY event. We should be seeking to reproduce these events, and we should be seeking to be able to provide external evidence (for ourselves or just for others), to reproduce these events, so we can hammer out if our hypothesis is correct (we are mind, energetic rope, etc) or if we need a new hypothesis (nice horse and careful drivers, etc).

 

Your second to last statement, "once we figure out how to truly use it" is the kicker. Because until we can isolate the variable that is different between you intending/desire to pull the horse and succeeding, and my intending/desire to pull the horse and failing, then we're not testing the same thing.

Edited April 16, 2013 by Sloppy Zhang

[manitou]

Open field, Sloppy

[Birch]

Do animals ever 'shapeshift' into humans?

 

I think they influence people. Other than that, the scientific folks are often looking to the animal world to understand the human one.

If I read another prairie vole story to justify long-term monogamy (or not justify it since they have since found other prairie voles that don't do it) I may burst out laughing, were it not that people then take it seriously as a model for human conduct or as a justification for their misconduct:-)

 

Sorry to OT slightly.

[Sloppy Zhang]

Open field, Sloppy

 

 

I omitted that I led him back across the highway, stopped traffic as well, with the invisible rope, and put him back into his corral.

Edited April 16, 2013 by Sloppy Zhang

[zerostao]

in north american indian folk lore animals may shapeshift into human. an example is the red headed woodpecker who shapeshifted into a human to teach an indian how to make the flute. braves and deer shapeshift into each other so often it may be hard to distinguish which was the original form.

 

"We have the serpent mounds down here in southern Ohio and I haven't been there to see them yet."

i dont want to get our druid fans up and excited, but, serpent mound is probably greater just as much an accomplishment than stone henge. manitou, maybe you should go visit there

[manitou]

Are you looking for discrepancy, Sloppy? There is none. The open field was across the highway, the Old Ferguson Farm, 200 acres of beautifully tillable soil. That's where he was roped. He was led by the rope across the highway and back to the door of his corral. I had to flag down cars to stop, as I wasn't sure how long the 'rope' would hold. I made no eye contact with anyone in the cars, I intuited that it would break the moment.

 

Sorry if my words were confusing.

Edited April 16, 2013 by manitou

[Sloppy Zhang]

Are you looking for discrepancy?

 

Nope. I wasn't there, I just respond to things as you tell me.

 

If you tell me you corralled a horse, I ask, did you really corral him, or did he come back to you of his own volition.

 

If you tell me you led him across the highway and stopped traffic, I wonder if maybe traffic didn't stop of its own volition.

 

If you tell me it's an open field, well where'd the highway come from?

 

I wasn't there, so I am relying on your testimony here when I ask questions

[manitou]

in north american indian folk lore animals may shapeshift into human. an example is the red headed woodpecker who shapeshifted into a human to teach an indian how to make the flute. braves and deer shapeshift into each other so often it may be hard to distinguish which was the original form.

 

"We have the serpent mounds down here in southern Ohio and I haven't been there to see them yet."

i dont want to get our druid fans up and excited, but, serpent mound is probably greater just as much an accomplishment than stone henge. manitou, maybe you should go visit there

 

lol. maybe I should. If only I could fly there tonight in my dreams and actually see it.

 

Back to the drawing boards.

[manitou]

Sloppy, you're a darned prosecutor, aren't you? I'd know one anywhere....

 

The open field was across the highway from the corral. I had to chase him. He was running about 35 mph, I was flying at about 3 mph. I ran up to a slightly raised knoll so I could see him. He was nowhere in sight. I could hear his hoofbeats getting closer. He circled the knoll and took off again, back in the acreage beyond my vision. I thought he was truly gone. I heard his hoofbeats return. That's when it occurred to me to tap into his memory of being roped, if I could.

 

I threw the rope. The horse skidded to a stop in the open field. After walking up the rope to him, I led him with the rope back to the highway, waved my arms to stop traffic, only about 3 cars. But on a curve so I'd rather have stopped cars rather than blind vision on the curve.

 

No eye contact with the drivers. Clop clop clop across the highway.

 

Continued with the invisible rope around the corral to the door in back. Swung it open and the little stallion went in.

 

You're right, Sloppy. It probably was a coincidence, all of it. But damn good alignment, if you ask me.

Edited April 16, 2013 by manitou

[Sloppy Zhang]

Sloppy, you're a darned prosecutor, aren't you? I'd know one anywhere....

...

I was flying at about 3 mph. ...

 

Where did you learn to fly?

 

....

 

Joking!

 

You're right, Sloppy. It probably was a coincidence, all of it. But damn good alignment, if you ask me.

 

I'm trying to avoid saying that it was one thing or the other. Rather, what I'm saying is that we should look at the evidence, and if we can form a hypothesis to explain that situation, then that hypothesis should be testable and repeatable across similar circumstances.

 

I think experiences like yours are important. Everyone has experiences that make them look more closely at things.

 

Some people immediately label them as coincidence. Some people immediately label them as providence. Sometimes this occurs at such a split second interval that people think "oh, a coincidence happened, and moved on."

 

What I am advocating is to not make a judgment and instead go, "okay, something happened. What happened? What were the mechanisms behind it? Can we reproduce this event? Can we develop these mechanisms?"

 

I think this type of investigation is as crucial to a spiritual practice/existence as anything else.

[BaguaKicksAss]

I have seen animals shapeshift, from a sort of animal I'd never seen before to a cat, and from a squirrel to a human looking child. Yes there was more than one of us who saw the squirrel, no we were not on drugs. No it was not the having a vision sort of thing where a person morphs for a split second and back either, we heard the physical footsteps of the child looking person who then suddenly vanished after staring at us. Also wasn't just a part manifestation of a spirit either, was completely solid from all we could tell.

 

You get to see some odd stuff when you get out of the city sometimes.

 

Most people don't talk about it due to everyone yelling "bullshit"; I have barely ever brought such things up before.

[Birch]

It's why forums:-)

[Flolfolil]

...

Edited March 10, 2015 by Flolfolil

[manitou]

Most people don't talk about it due to everyone yelling "bullshit"; I have barely ever brought such things up before.

 

I think I'll join your ranks.