"If an animal would suddenly get an ego"

[3bob]

"...If an animal would suddenly get an ego, this would be an Enlightenment experience for the animal. That would be the first shift for the animal from its subconscious state to becoming aware of itself. The subconscious state is like a dream state. In a dream, there is no clear self-awareness; the subject’s awareness is completely objectified into the dream story. Humans, in their semi-conscious state, are on the one hand conscious enough to have a sense of self, while on the other hand not conscious enough to realize what is behind this sense of self. This causes us to search for our true identity.

Some spiritual traditions only teach discovering the ‘no-self,’ and therefore portray the ego as something negative. The spiritual path, however, is about self-awareness. So essentially the ego plays a positive role on the spiritual path. However, because we completely identify with this self-concept, we become imprisoned in our egocentric concepts and beliefs..."

 

complete text at:

http://www.myanalyses.com/aziz.html

[Vanir Thunder Dojo Tan]

i am not in the agreeing party.

"Ego" and "self" are no less present in animals than in humans, however, perhaps less attributed in their awareness.

Definitely not the dominant mentality of an animal: A Higher Being than Human would have overome such petty nuicances as this.

[3bob]

Ant, did you read the rest of quote for context of where the author is coming from?

 

Btw, what higher beings, to me there is only one being in all beings.

Edited April 15, 2013 by 3bob

[TheInkSpot]

Interesting subject. Humans are animals. I watched a documentary last night and it seems a Mantis Shrimp has self-awareness but a Moray Eel does not. (In a mirror, the shrimp viewed itself and went on its merry way but the eel tried to kill the intruder.)

 

There are many animals beside humans that have self-awareness. But yes, there are many things going on after self-awareness has been attained. These "things" will vary between species as well as between individuals.

[blindeye]

All my cats have ego's ..they're just purrrfect ego's:-)

[Vanir Thunder Dojo Tan]

"higher" in the sense of seniority; humans are one of the youngest species.

[blindeye]

 

1. Enlightenment to the State of Presence. – This occurs when the center of identity shifts to consciousness.

 

2. Enlightenment to the Absolute State. – This occurs when the center of identity shifts to Being.

 

3. Enlightenment to the Heart. – This occurs when the center of identity shifts to the Heart. ""

 

 

Some animals in many species have all of the above: pure undivided presence, constant undivided sense of being, undivided emotional center. 'Divided' is an aspect of ego -the polarization of light. Animals intentionally share the lower part of our totem pole for humanities sake, they are our teachers in a myriad way. For many of them their consciousness is much closer to god than our own. By the way, 'i' am a dyslexic (doG)

 

If enlightenment means being closer to )God( "I" would rather be a bird, let's not make assumptions about our good cousin's intentions ..yes animals do intend ..ever see a cat jump? It take flawless intuitive ability to jump what for my own height and weight would be 30 feet down. One of my cat jumps 9 feet (measured it) daily.

[Birch]

That was very interesting 3bob. I had understood that shamanistic cultures did consider animals to have selves of some kind, although perhaps more 'collective' selves than 'individual' selves like we (reckon?) we have.

[3bob]

.

In some ways I agree with blindeye although I believe animals are more or less bound by instincts even if they spend a lot of time with humans and develop certain traits like us who are more or less bound by ego...

 

Glad the post was of interest to several of you at the site.

 

See ya tomorrow, I'm a bit under the weather right now. 3bob

[3bob]

.

the last part of the text, (underlines by me)

 

"...What is the true answer to the question: Who am I? Is the answer: the ego? Or consciousness? Or Emptiness? Searching for our true self we come across different dimensions of what we are. But who is the one who is experiencing these dimensions, who is the one searching for its true self? Hidden within all of what we are is the essence of our unique identity. Aziz calls it the Soul. Consciousness and Emptiness are impersonal and universal, but the Soul is personal.

The Soul exists in the Heart, and can only recognize itself in a clear way after the realization of Presence and the Absolute. Some mystics have gone directly to the Heart without first realizing Presence and the Absolute, but although they experienced the Soul, their realization lacked the clarity that one who already realized Presence and the Absolute would have had. Only when water is still can it clearly mirror your true face.

Now that the Heart center is open, we experience that the most direct and personal experience of the self is in the Heart. We become aware of the Soul. Inherent in the Soul is a profound sensitivity which comes from the Heart. The Heart is universal, but extends into an individual expression which we call the Soul. Because of this we are one with I AM but also separate from I AM. The Soul is what experiences oneness and separation. Experiencing oneness is only accessible if one can also experience separation.

The Soul is not the I AM. The Soul is the I AM seeing itself as a Soul. Through this seeing, a separation between the I AM and itself arises. I AM meets itself through seeing itself as a Soul. And every Soul is a unique angle of perception of I AM.

Although each Soul has its own unique destiny in relation to its own (genetic) blueprint, some self-determining energy is inherent in each Soul. The universe creates a human being and the human being responds to the universe; it is a living, interactive process. Quantum physics discovered that when a particle is perceived by us, the particle is changed by that very observation. Perception is an energy which changes the reality of that which is perceived. The perceiver and the perceived both affect each other. In the same way the Soul co-operates with
I AM in the realization of I AM".

[Birch]

Hi 3Bob, sorry to hear you're under the weather.

 

I agree with you about the impersonal consciousness and emptiness. You might like http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Master_and_His_Emissary

[3bob]

.

Thanks for the considerate thought K, which is appreciated.

 

Btw, I do have some reservations about the usage of those particular words (emptiness and impersonal) which can often be found in various posts where they are part of fanatical like arguments... then again in the case of the quote I posted I feel there are more well rounded meanings given and pointed to concerning those words along with the important and key addition of the word Soul and its meaning as also given in this quote - which is often superciliously rejected out of hand by various "experts".

 

Thus my motive was for sharing an alternate take on the subject that to me rings with truth.

Edited April 17, 2013 by 3bob

[RongzomFan]

.key addition of the word Soul and its meaning as also given in this quote - which is often superciliously rejected out of hand by various "experts".

 

There is no soul in Advaita either. Atman means 'identity', not soul.

[Guest Jason Croft]

Silly 1 - we are animals. . . only we use tools - stand upright and cannot fly.

[Vanir Thunder Dojo Tan]

.

the last part of the text, (underlines by me)

 

"...What is the true answer to the question: Who am I? Is the answer: the ego? Or consciousness? Or Emptiness? Searching for our true self we come across different dimensions of what we are. But who is the one who is experiencing these dimensions, who is the one searching for its true self? Hidden within all of what we are is the essence of our unique identity. Aziz calls it the Soul. Consciousness and Emptiness are impersonal and universal, but the Soul is personal.

The Soul exists in the Heart, and can only recognize itself in a clear way after the realization of Presence and the Absolute. Some mystics have gone directly to the Heart without first realizing Presence and the Absolute, but although they experienced the Soul, their realization lacked the clarity that one who already realized Presence and the Absolute would have had. Only when water is still can it clearly mirror your true face.

Now that the Heart center is open, we experience that the most direct and personal experience of the self is in the Heart. We become aware of the Soul. Inherent in the Soul is a profound sensitivity which comes from the Heart. The Heart is universal, but extends into an individual expression which we call the Soul. Because of this we are one with I AM but also separate from I AM. The Soul is what experiences oneness and separation. Experiencing oneness is only accessible if one can also experience separation.

The Soul is not the I AM. The Soul is the I AM seeing itself as a Soul. Through this seeing, a separation between the I AM and itself arises. I AM meets itself through seeing itself as a Soul. And every Soul is a unique angle of perception of I AM.

Although each Soul has its own unique destiny in relation to its own (genetic) blueprint, some self-determining energy is inherent in each Soul. The universe creates a human being and the human being responds to the universe; it is a living, interactive process. Quantum physics discovered that when a particle is perceived by us, the particle is changed by that very observation. Perception is an energy which changes the reality of that which is perceived. The perceiver and the perceived both affect each other. In the same way the Soul co-operates with

I AM in the realization of I AM".

Quoted for emphasis...

 

 

And so i could like it twice.

[Vanir Thunder Dojo Tan]

Silly 1 - we are animals. . . only we use tools - stand upright and cannot fly.

there is only one true feature that separates us from "animals". our heels.

[3bob]

.

ah, but we both stand upright and also fly in the dream... and the flying is normally more free like.

[blindeye]

Maybe it's more the so(u)les and less the heels, though dogs may heel after walking too far, then 'my' dog's get tired?

Or it is the laces we tie before dogs wear out or heels?

 

 

[3bob]

.

Hot diggity dog I don't know..

Edited April 18, 2013 by 3bob