We are taught to be dishonest at birth

[Vanir Thunder Dojo Tan]

Believe it or not, clothing is the greatest deciever this time! Just think about it for a moment; no one is walking around in complete honesty, bearing their souls for all to see, uninhibited and unashamed.

Why not? Why arent we walking in complete open and naked honesty?
It couldnt possibly be a subliminated psychological wound caused by enforced nudity veiling, could it?

An article has been contributed not to think for you, but to prepare you to think for yourself.

[Tibetan_Ice]

Believe it or not, clothing is the greatest deciever this time! Just think about it for a moment; no one is walking around in complete honesty, bearing their souls for all to see, uninhibited and unashamed.

 

Why not? Why arent we walking in complete open and naked honesty?

It couldnt possibly be a subliminated psychological wound caused by enforced nudity veiling, could it?

 

An article has been contributed not to think for you, but to prepare you to think for yourself.

 

Er... I can think of a number of reasons to wear clothing..

 

-Digits freeze and fall off in -30 degree weather in winter in this country

 

-We share most things, but butt bugs shouldn't be one of them (on chairs, couches, bus seats..)

 

-Constantly seeing the naked female form would probably result in a diminishing of the sex drive (might solve the over -population problem though..)

 

-Constantly seeing the naked female form would probably result in an increase of the sex drive (might not solve the over -population problem now that I think about it..)

 

-You would have no place to put your keys or wallet (no place that is sanitary, anyway)

 

-sunburn, windburn, mosquitos, hail, rose bushes

 

-lack of status through fashion could be unbarable to some..(pun intended)

 

-You could no longer tell the difference between a police officer or a priest.

 

-You'd really have to watch where you stepped on a busy sidewalk (gum, doggy doodoo, broken glass...)

 

But, think of the money you'd save not having to wash clothes anymore.. Then again..

 

 

TI

[Birch]

I think your idea about what clothing implies has some legs, but even if all I had were potato sacks, I'd still be wearing five or six of them in winter.

[Sloppy Zhang]

I've been having lots of dreams about being naked recently.

 

No nervousness or sexuality associated with them. I'm just naked, doing what I'm doing.

 

I've gotten the impulse to walk barefoot a lot more, lighter shoes/sandals. Lighter clothes.

 

Then again, it's also getting hotter around these parts.

 

I've also been working out and running a lot more, so I'm not averse to someone taking a look at my body

 

I'm not trying to cover up my fat with nice® clothes.

 

Hygiene issues aside, most of the objections listed above to being naked have to do with the logistics of how our society operates around clothes.

 

But yeah, let's do it. Get naked, I mean.

[thelerner]

 

Why not? Why arent we walking in complete open and naked honesty?

It couldnt possibly be a subliminated psychological wound caused by enforced nudity veiling, could it?

 

An article has been contributed not to think for you, but to prepare you to think for yourself.

You first; its not really a good look for me. Though you have a point, nudists have nothing to hide.

 

Why not..seems to me most 'primitive' tribes wear at least something covering there privates. Probably a sexual thing, hard to be a teen boy in a naked world and it may not get that much better with age. The other side of the coin is, what's hidden is sensual. Thus woman (&men) adorn and use clothes for to display stature.

[Vanir Thunder Dojo Tan]

it also teaches fear... apparently.

[Vanir Thunder Dojo Tan]

Er... I can think of a number of reasons to wear clothing..

 

-Digits freeze and fall off in -30 degree weather in winter in this country

-a precicely valid point and none the less utterly irrelevant in the habits of honesty and lying, i cannot but conceed.

 

-We share most things, but butt bugs shouldn't be one of them (on chairs, couches, bus seats..)

-hygene takes on a whole new level of importance when one wears no pants! i see no fault in being naked and clean, but no concession.

 

-Constantly seeing the naked female form would probably result in a diminishing of the sex drive (might solve the over -population problem though..)

-

 

-Constantly seeing the naked female form would probably result in an increase of the sex drive (might not solve the over -population problem now that I think about it..)

-two bipolar responses and each balancing the other, and fully nullifying any point to be made.

 

-You would have no place to put your keys or wallet (no place that is sanitary, anyway)

-i dont want the symptoms of disease to be as though necessary, WTFYTB?! O_o

 

-sunburn, windburn, mosquitos, hail, rose bushes

-again with the hygene thing?

 

-lack of status through fashion could be unbarable to some..(pun intended)

-som funny pun but not a valid argument.

 

-You could no longer tell the difference between a police officer or a priest.

-There is no difference between two human beings except their own individual and consensual expression of their own self. clothes are a means to an end but not an everpresent necessity. all things are conditional.

 

-You'd really have to watch where you stepped on a busy sidewalk (gum, doggy doodoo, broken glass...)

-yeah, we dont want people to be more aware do we?

 

But, think of the money you'd save not having to wash clothes anymore.. Then again..

 

 

TI

I have to admit, I like your concerns, but i meant only to highlight a possible core principal equation to the workings of human programming.

 

 

I like this font color, how can i make it my personally permanent posting presentation particulate?

[Taomeow]

Most of our history happened during Ice Age.

There's many things about us that are, genetically speaking, a lie. What happened to our fur? There's no other naked ape in existence. What happened to our tail? How can a species that vigorously explores and expands its environment suddenly "not need" a tail which could be so handy... um, taily... for this specific lifestyle?.. Why are our teeth and claws so useless in the natural world? Normal animals fight with their faces. We fight a helluva lot more than all animals combined, but we "need" tools. What about menstruation -- what is this biological innovation for, no one else does this because bleeding in a natural setting routinely attracts carnivorous predators? What about continuous ready-willing-able vis a vis sex -- all animals have limited and distinct periods of sexual activity, "libido" is not an indefinite continuity in any natural species. What about hair on the head that doesn't stop growing with maturity -- ever seen a lion who needs a haircut? What about the loss of ability to produce vitamin C in our bodies? What happened to that, why would we lose it if we didn't lose the need for it? What about the... OK, the biggie:

All primates, apes, hominids, neanderthals, cro-magnons have 48 (24 pairs) chromosomes.
Humans (Homo sapiens) have 46 (23 pairs).

There is no natural way for this to have happened -- and here's what happened:

1) "Evolution" from ape to human "lost" two chromosomes (1 pair).
2) Chromosomes 2 and 3 fused together into one long doubled-up chromosome.

(If two chromosomes fewer doesn't sound drastic, consider the fact that dolphins have 2 chromosomes fewer than humans--the difference this produces is pretty radical. I don't know where dolphins stand in relation to whatever they are supposed to have "evolved" from. But humans do seem to stand in a genetically impossible place that could never happen naturally.)

Edited April 18, 2013 by Taomeow

[h.uriahr]

 

-Constantly seeing the naked female form would probably result in an increase of the sex drive (might not solve the over -population problem now that I think about it..)

 

-You would have no place to put your keys or wallet

 

 

TI

 

1. I'd be constantly knocking things off waist high tables.....

2. Fanny pack sales would skyrocket

[h.uriahr]

I don't see the point to being naked. Don't get me wrong, I LOVE a tight well rounded ass as much if not more than the next guy but there goes my interest in watching mma or boxing. I love the hell out of my own dick...I have no interest in seeing yours.

 

Public transit would suffer.

All the pedos on Megan's law would love it though.

[Sloppy Zhang]

Most of our history happened during Ice Age.

 

There's many things about us that are, genetically speaking, a lie. What happened to our fur? There's no other naked ape in existence. What happened to our tail? How can a species that vigorously explores and expands its environment suddenly "not need" a tail which could be so handy... um, taily... for this specific lifestyle?.. Why are our teeth and claws so useless in the natural world? Normal animals fight with their faces. We fight a helluva lot more than all animals combined, but we "need" tools. What about menstruation -- what is this biological innovation for, no one else does this because bleeding in a natural setting routinely attracts carnivorous predators? What about continuous ready-willing-able vis a vis sex -- all animals have limited and distinct periods of sexual activity, "libido" is not an indefinite continuity in any natural species. What about hair on the head that doesn't stop growing with maturity -- ever seen a lion who needs a haircut? What about the loss of ability to produce vitamin C in our bodies? What happened to that, why would we lose it if we didn't lose the need for it? What about the... OK, the biggie:

 

All primates, apes, hominids, neanderthals, cro-magnons have 48 (24 pairs) chromosomes.

Humans (Homo sapiens) have 46 (23 pairs).

 

There is no natural way for this to have happened -- and here's what happened:

 

1) "Evolution" from ape to human "lost" two chromosomes (1 pair).

2) Chromosomes 2 and 3 fused together into one long doubled-up chromosome.

 

(If two chromosomes fewer doesn't sound drastic, consider the fact that dolphins have 2 chromosomes fewer than humans--the difference this produces is pretty radical. I don't know where dolphins stand in relation to whatever they are supposed to have "evolved" from. But humans do seem to stand in a genetically impossible place that could never happen naturally.)

 

Damn.

 

You got me.

[Jetsun]

Gurdjieff talks about the negative effect of clothes in one of his books, I thought it was a bit of a joke at the start but apparently has to do with pore breathing and taking in prana correctly as babies pores are not fully developed so you have to make sure they are kept completely clean so they don't get blocked; but adult pores with their clothes and sweat can easily get blocked which reduces the efficiency of the body and increase the stress on the lungs and kidneys. Not that Gurdjieff walked around naked but he ensured him and his students take a Turkish steam bath every week to counteract the negative impact of clothes on the body.

[Spotless]

Consider us a book

 

We do not need a cover for the book - we could just have the fine thin pages start on the front and end on the back.

 

With no cover the book would not stand the rigors of being an active book nearly as well as one with a cover.

 

A cover could be nondescript - pure utility

 

or it could have many forms of identity and personality

 

The cover may well identify the contents within - though it may hype the value or under phrase itself.

 

The cover is not inherently a lie.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Taomeow]

LInen, cotton, silk, hemp, bamboo, wool, leather, fur clothes breathe. Polyester, nylon, rayon (this starts out as natural fabric but is chemically infused and altered so it can hardly breathe anymore), polyvinyl chloride etc. don't and indeed suffocate your pores. Before going naked, consider re-evaluating your wardrobe from this POV. Mine has 1% synthetics (and even those are limited to lacey things so they breathe through the holes) and 99% natural materials. This is a quest made particularly hard for women -- women's clothes today are polyester galore. When I food shop at a supermarket, I go as I would through a jungle in search of food, quickly marking off 99% of everything in the environment: "not food... not food... not food... " My clothes shopping trips are similar -- polyester textures are the environment, the jungle: "not clothes... not clothes... not shoes..." What I'm looking for is hiding somewhere in the jungle, and I look for that, disregarding whatever pretends to be that but isn't. It's like foraging for mushrooms -- you don't take the poisonous ones just because they look similar to the edible ones and can be mistaken for the latter.

[Birch]

Polyester feels icky.

[Jetsun]

Have you heard/do you know about the healing properties of flax/linen?

 

I didn't know that about flax, that is interesting, I think I will have to re-evaluate my wardrobe and bed linen, much of it is cotton but they often mix it with other things.

[Vanir Thunder Dojo Tan]

wowtaomeow.

that was a brain full!

We all want answers, though, dont we...




So maybe it was ancient aliens, or perhaps the ancient astronauts are just our ancestors. maybe it was Atlantis waging a epic techno war against other super-tech civs for dominion over the Earth. maybe its a secret society that has been around since the "missing link" in human evolution, that has been doing genetic experiments since their/our species first contracted the common cold?

[三江源]

Idk if you like watching videos, Judo Ant. The quabbalah link I put up in relevant forum explains brilliantly the coming down the tree of life and the going back up again.

 

What we lose and how to recover the territory and the evolution of us along that journey.

 

Its a really long video. About 12 hours...

[Vanir Thunder Dojo Tan]

i dont benefit from videos/tv without subtitles or closed captions. but to be honest, i dont think i more than glanced at the link, cuz i was probably surfing and discussing at the same time lol

[Stosh]

Sublimated nudity veiling , nice wording , and yes that sounds about right..

One hides who and what they are , to a degree -with good reason and suffer consequences in the form of alienation etc.

But the alternative is complete exposure, which, also presents problem.

Collectively -One presumably picks the best trade-off .

 

But Dishonest at birth has a bit of Vmarcoian bombast to it.

Edited April 19, 2013 by Stosh

[hydrogen]

I hope rebellion teenagers would out grow "hate-everything-in-existence" phase soon.

 

Cover up. I don't want to see your body.

Edited April 19, 2013 by hydrogen

[Vmarco]

Sublimated nudity veiling , nice wording , and yes that sounds about right..

 

But Dishonest at birth has a bit of Vmarcoian bombast to it.

Why VMarcoian,...why not Buddhoian or Toaoian? Does VMarco ever contradict Buddhism or the Tao?

 

The Lojong says, "Find the consciousness you had before you were born" to uncover bodhicitta and enlightenment. Why?

 

In “The Art of Dreaming,” Carlos Castaneda mentions that while in another space-time, if one so much as puts on the clothing of the other dimension, conscious can quickly become trapped in that dimension. If we attach ourselves to the other space-time, we can quickly forget the one that we really live in, just as we swiftly forget our dream upon waking. Another example of this topic, although not interdimensional, is the tale of the abbot, Sri Sankaracharya.

 

Following the death of a young prince, Sri Sankaracharya separated his subtle self and entered into the deceased prince to tend to his unfinished last will and testament. The prince’s Last Will and Testament was supposed to stipulate his intent to support Sankaracharya’s monastery, where the young prince enjoyed retreats and philosophical conversations.

 

Sri Sankaracharya gathered the monks and told them of his plan. Then, as the prince’s funeral procession was carrying his corpse to the crematorium, the abbot entered the deceased’s body, thus reanimating the young royal. Everyone was happy to see the prince rise from the dead, especially his many wives, and a long celebration began. The abbot, as he forewarned the monks, quickly forgot who he was, just as a newborn obscures itself from itself through the sensory attachment to blankets, diapers, and endearing baby talk.

 

After a week, the monks became worried and sought an audience with the prince to persuade the abbot to come back into his own body, which by now was quickly deteriorating. The prince, however, would not receive them, as he was busy tending to his many wives. Therefore, the monks gathered outside the palace’s living quarters and began to sing a song that the abbot had composed. Upon hearing the melody, Sankaracharya remembered himself, immediately took care of the prince’s will, and reintegrated with his own body at the monastery. The prince’s body was discovered in the morning and once again carried away, with the funeral party undoubtedly watching for him to rise again.

 

However, back to Stosh's paradigm,...which is interpreting the world through the lie, the delusion, the dishonesty of the 6 senses.

 

Why did René Descartes, concerning the senses, articulate that, “All that I have tried to understand to the present time has been affected by my senses; now I know these senses are deceivers, and it is prudent to be distrustful after one has been deceived once.”

 

That's the simple leap which must be made before the Heart of Essense is realized,...that EVERYTHING of the 5 skandhas is a lie,....EVERYTHING filtered through the 5 skandhas is designed to sustain the lie. HOWEVER,...this cancer (meaning, a striving towards individualism, separation, and veiling of coherent light), can be dissolved,...instantly dissolved, by uncovering Consciousness of the Present.

 

There is no present in time.

[Vanir Thunder Dojo Tan]

<3 VM hahaha!


Stosh: I've come up with an observation and presented it in this thread, the following discussion has nothing to do with VMarco except VMarco's own response HAW!


Hydrogen: no one is making you look. Modesty is a two way street. if you expect me to be modest and hide my nudity, i can only expect you to be modest and not stare at nudity that is not covered.




All in all, stosh's point is clear and self evident: there are consequences for both sides of the spectrum and finding balance is my only objective.

No nudity cannot be considered "wrong" if it is at the decision of the nudist. Stripping people against their will is as wrong as clothing them against their will.

Fuck's sakes, i swear, people STILL dont understand the basic concept for free will and right/wrong!

 

Edited April 19, 2013 by Northern Avid Judo Ant

[hydrogen]

An interesting story to share, V.

Edited April 19, 2013 by hydrogen

[dawei]

Believe it or not, clothing is the greatest deciever this time! Just think about it for a moment; no one is walking around in complete honesty, bearing their souls for all to see, uninhibited and unashamed.

 

Why not? Why arent we walking in complete open and naked honesty?

It couldnt possibly be a subliminated psychological wound caused by enforced nudity veiling, could it?

 

I do think there is a great metaphorical point in this.

 

I once joked to a friend of mine who just had a baby that it would take him less than a year before he would be unknowingly teaching the infant the art of brainwashing... enforced [*put anything here you want*]. We didn't talk about it till I visited almost a year later.

 

We meet a year later and as he interacted with her... I suddenly commented: "I see the initiation has started...". He looked at me and then laughed uncontrollably for a few minutes. Then finished dressing her...