Worst translations of TTC?

[dust]

But, IMO, it is a valid Taoist thought.

 

It has a vaguely "Eastern spiritual" ring to it, I suppose. But do any of the 3 statements actually hold true?

 

Is everyone who's sad about the past "depressed"?

And can't we be "depressed" without even thinking of the past? (perhaps the future, or our present situation?)

And can't one be anxious while thinking about a past or current situation?

And if one is at peace, is this always attributable to being "in the present"? Can't someone be at peace thinking of a memory, or future possibilities?

 

In my opinion, not the wisdom of a great sage..

Edited August 2, 2015 by dustybeijing

[dust]

my vote goes to Ursula

 

I think she understands the LZ better than many, but when she says something like this:

 

"Lao Tzu knows that getting all entangled with the external keep us from the eternal, but he also understands that sometimes people like to get dressed up."

 

or this:

 

"The Tao de Ching, though very old, is accessible because the Chinese characters haven’t changed."

 

I begin to wonder..

[Marblehead]

It has a vaguely "Eastern spiritual" ring to it, I suppose. But do any of the 3 statements actually hold true?

 

Is everyone who's sad about the past "depressed"?

And can't we be "depressed" without even thinking of the past? (perhaps the future, or our present situation?)

And can't one be anxious while thinking about a past or current situation?

And if one is at peace, is this always attributable to being "in the present"? Can't someone be at peace thinking of a memory, or future possibilities?

 

In my opinion, not the wisdom of a great sage..

So many questions; so few answers.

 

Yes, if it is possible then it can be so.

[Old River]

I'm not fond of Mitchell either -- however, he was my introduction to the Daodejing some 20-odd years ago, and it only made me want to dig more deeply.  As a simple introduction to some general principles, Mitchell's might work temporarily for some newcomers.  Maybe.  I seem to recall he did say that his is a "version," not an direct "translation" from the Chinese itself. 

 

His Rilke is, from what I understand, quite good (a native of Germany I knew once had nothing but high praise for him on that front). 

[dawei]

I think she understands the LZ better than many, but when she says something like this:

 

"Lao Tzu knows that getting all entangled with the external keep us from the eternal, but he also understands that sometimes people like to get dressed up."

 

LZ is nothing if not pragmatic in how he views the ten thousand.  He does not want to get in their way (of arising) but will help nurture their path.  To me, it means one doesn't try to change another's path but respects it for what it is... their path.  

 

To me, he has one foot in heaven and one foot in earth.   Looking at the parts where Heaven and Earth are mentioned together is quite interesting.

[Jonesboy]

While not a translation it is a supposed guru explaining the TTC.

 

Edited April 8, 2016 by Jonesboy

[dawei]

While not a translation it is a supposed guru explaining the TTC.

 

 

So this is one of the worst of a guru explaining the TTC 

 

BTW: He is reading Jonathan Star's version:

 

http://web.archive.org/web/20100330214553/http://home.pages.at/onkellotus/TTK/English_Star_TTK.html

[Old River]

BTW: He is reading Jonathan Star's version:

 

http://web.archive.org/web/20100330214553/http://home.pages.at/onkellotus/TTK/English_Star_TTK.html

 

I'm not enamored with Star's translation, but the appendix (what amounts to a simplified lexicon) makes it an invaluable resource.

[dust]

LZ is nothing if not pragmatic in how he views the ten thousand.  He does not want to get in their way (of arising) but will help nurture their path.  To me, it means one doesn't try to change another's path but respects it for what it is... their path. 

 

 

Ursula LeGuin says:

 

“When Thoreau says to distrust any enterprise which requires new clothes, I distrust him…Lao Tzu knows that getting all entangled with the external keep us from the eternal, but he also understands that sometimes people like to get dressed up.”

 

If she sometimes likes to get dressed up, that's fine, but nowhere in the LZ does it say "Dressing up in pretty things sometimes is nice if you can afford it." I don't see what relation all her talk of clothes and "innocent vanity" has to the text whatsoever.

 

 

Quotes from Thoreau's Walden:

 

I say, beware of all enterprises that require new clothes, and not rather a new wearer of clothes.

 

No man ever stood the lower in my estimation for having a patch in his clothes; yet I am sure that there is greater anxiety, commonly, to have fashionable, or at least clean and unpatched clothes, than to have a sound conscience.

 

 

Quote from LZ ch.53:

 

what I should be most afraid of would be a boastful display (...) Their court(-yards and buildings) shall be well kept, but their fields shall be ill-cultivated, and their granaries very empty. They shall wear elegant and ornamented robes, carry a sharp sword at their girdle, pamper themselves in eating and drinking, and have a superabundance of property and wealth; such may be called robbers and boasters. This is contrary to the Dao surely!

 

 

These have very little to do with each other, but she's trying to make a connection.

 

Thoreau wasn't 'Puritan' as LeGuin suggests; sometimes austere, sure, but actually his writing is full of contradictory ideas and trying to sum it up as 'Puritan' is very silly. In Walden he wasn't suggesting never buying new clothes, or that doing well for oneself is a bad thing; and LZ makes no kind of statement about whether or not to patch clothes. In the lines quoted, Thoreau is simply being suspicious of the social custom of needing new clothes for certain enterprises (which, let's be honest, is fair). LZ is not bothered either way, as far as I can tell, though the stronger argument can be made that he was not keen on excessive displays...

 

 

edit: However, I'm aware that I might just be getting excessively caught up in minor details  and to be clear: I think your comment about not wanting to get in the way of others' paths is true, I just don't think it applies to what LeGuin was saying

Edited April 9, 2016 by dustybeijing