Home Taoist Altar

[sree]

And what about the room to put them (the altars) in? Let's say you put one in your bedroom due to lack of space and other reasons (like not having an obvious altar in a public room). Which one would you best put there? And which not. I'm not a fan of anything being in my bedroom I haven't invited.

 

Great thread:-)

 

K, how about making one's bedroom or bedsit the altar room? Aromatic candles can be placed strategically. I really like this idea. And when a friend comes to visit, it will be magical.

[Slim]

My sense is if you feel the need to have an altar then go for it, don't let anyone here question that.

 

A teacher told me that the intention in wanting and setting up an altar outweighs many other considerations against not having it. In other words just the fact that you want one and are setting one up in your home is beneficial.

 

Here are some things that I learnt that might interest you.

 

First, in terms of location be mindful of what is on the floor above the altar. It's not good to have people walking over the head of whoever you have installed. As for more detailed placement, fengshui will be a consideration, and as someone mentioned above that gets complex. One way to think of it is treat the deity of the altar as an honoured guest. Where would you put an honoured guest in your home. Where do you feel he or she would be most comfortable.

 

Second, many Daoist altars follow the fenxiang system. Fenxiang means to divide the incense. When a new altar was opened the burner on the new altar used incense ash from an established altar, thus creating a system of relationships between various altars. Following this in your altar might not be workable but its good to keep in mind.

 

Third, if possible try to have the image and other items on the altar enlivened (kaiguang). Check at a local temple.

 

But at the end of the day just follow what makes sense to you, and be open to learning as you go. I am always surprised where knowledge comes from. Also Taomeow's point above about the need for protection makes sense, you are inviting certain things into your home. My experience is that it can only be harmful over a long sustained period if something isn't right, so pay attention to how you feel and your dreams etc. You'll know.

 

PS I think it's odd that the religious vs. philosophical Daoism distinction still has so much traction. But I guess that's a topic for another thread.

Edited April 20, 2013 by Slim

[sree]

I think all the altar suggestions here are for traditional Daoism. What about altars for philosophical Daoists who don't believe in spirits and deities?

[ChiDragon]

"Fenxiang means to divide the incense.".......???

奉香（Fenxiang） means place burning incense on the altar in the morning and evening to show respect to the Taoist deities.

[xor]

I think all the altar suggestions here are for traditional Daoism. What about altars for philosophical Daoists who don't believe in spirits and deities?

Why would such a person need an altar?

[ChiDragon]

I think all the altar suggestions here are for traditional Daoism. What about altars for philosophical Daoists who don't believe in spirits and deities?

 

 

PS I think it's odd that the religious vs. philosophical distinction is really still such a hangup for some people. But I guess that's a topic for another thread.

 

I think there is a little misunderstanding on your part about the difference between the religious vs. philosophical distinction in Taoism. FYI A philosophical person who study the Taoist philosophy is not religious at all.

[sree]

Why would such a person need an altar?

 

newTaoist is a philosophical Daoist and wanted an altar. I thought it was a brilliant idea because it would facilitate religious expression for Philosophical Daoism.

 

Traditionally, an altar is for worship of deities or ancentors. I have nothing against worship but can't we have an altar to worship other things?

[sree]

I think there is a little misunderstanding on your part about the difference between the religious vs. philosophical distinction in Taoism. FYI A philosophical person who study the Taoist philosophy is not religious at all.

 

Generally, you are correct and I tend to agree with you until newTaoist wanted an altar. I thought about it and resonated with the idea.

 

An altar gives a dimension of reality to a philosophical approach to Daoism. Perhaps, it is time religious Daoism has a modern face devoid of superstitons.

 

What do you think?

[ChiDragon]

Perhaps, did you miss one of the newTaoist's posts....???

ChiDragon, perhaps I wasn't clear. When I stated this could be the next step in my practice, I meant to become a religious Daoist.

Edited April 20, 2013 by ChiDragon

[newTaoist]

well, this discussion has gotten quite lively. I'm not sure what to do at this point.

[Taomeow]

Taomeow, your three altars seem connected to a scary Daoist practice of the east. Those sects invoke entities from realms in Daoist Hell. I am hoping that newTaoist is thinking of setting up an altar for present-day Daoists like me who find peace in philosophical Daoism.

 

I am thinking of an altar that I can relate to when I spend quiet time with the DDJ. I prefer the lavender or rosemary fragrance of incense and the only immortals of another realm I want when I "pray" are ones like Bach with Glen Gould on the piano. No other entities.

 

To each their own.

 

Lavender is great for scenting your bed linens. Rosemary, however, is one of the exorcist's tools. Be careful.

Edited April 20, 2013 by Taomeow

[sree]

Perhaps, did you miss one of the newTaoist's posts....???

 

 

 

Religious Taoist doesn't necessarily mean of the Wudang or Maoshan type. This is the year 2013. As a modern-day religious Daoist, I don't believe in Chinese vampires hopping about in the night.

[Taomeow]

Traditionally, an altar is for worship of deities or ancentors. I have nothing against worship but can't we have an altar to worship other things?

 

Of course. This practice is known as "making idols."

[newTaoist]

Taomeow, I am very interested in what you have to say. I looked up Yoda's altar and found some disturbing things regarding the sect. How do you suggest that I proceed?

[sree]

well, this discussion has gotten quite lively. I'm not sure what to do at this point.

 

Well, it's your fault. Anyway, the discussion is quite challenging. Folks here think that a religious Daoist has to worship Daoist deities and dangerous entities. I never thought you were going in that direction. You said you are a philosophical Daoist and wanted an altar. I am a philosophical Daoist also but I don't want a traditional Daoist altar for worshipping Daoist deities.

[newTaoist]

my mistake. I certainly didn't mean to cause a ruckus. I mentioned my philosophical outlook to describe what I have been and am wondering if taking the next step, which I consider to be religious Daoism, is for me. Thus the question about the home altar. I'm sorry if I led anyone astray. It wasn't my intention.

Edited April 20, 2013 by newTaoist

[sree]

Of course. This practice is known as "making idols."

 

By other things, I meant heart-moving stuff like natural beauty and inspiring actions of humans and other animals. To "worship" such things doesn't have to be ritualistic practices of traditional Daoism.

 

Once upon a time, as a Daoist, I worshipped the spirit of the valley. After 2000 years, it's time I moved on to worship its beauty.

Edited April 20, 2013 by sree

[sree]

my mistake. I certainly didn't mean to cause a ruckus. I mentioned my philosophical outlook to describe what I have been and am wondering if taking the next step, which I consider to be religious Daoism, is for me. Thus the question about the home altar. I'm sorry if I led anyone astray. It wasn't my intention.

 

You didn't led me astray. And you didn't cause a controversy. What you started was a timely debate on the form of the Daoist Religion for the modern-day Daoist who rides in a twin-turbo engined car and not on a water buffalo. I think traditional Daoist religious forms are not appropriate for philosophical Daoists like me. I want something that doesn't make me look foolish.

[newTaoist]

I understand. I'm not looking to look foolish either, just want to further my Daoist practice and seem to be leaning towards the religious. I may be wrong though. This sure has me thinking though.

[Taomeow]

Taomeow, I am very interested in what you have to say. I looked up Yoda's altar and found some disturbing things regarding the sect. How do you suggest that I proceed?

 

Thank you.

 

I would suggest you do some planning and take care of some preliminaries before proceeding to the actual altar making.

 

When I start thinking about what to suggest to a philosophical taoist, I can't help feeling that philosophical taoism does not prepare one for anything but a bunch of ways to process thoughts. This is a process that is routinely ignored by other realms, so if you want to initiate a relationship with those, you would have to do it in a way they notice. Specifically, you need a practice that gives you a measure of control of your qi and shen. Taoist ritual work (with the exception of offerings to the ancestors) is not done by people who haven't undergone some cultivation. They don't have to be priests, but they have to be able to focus their intent, settle their qi, quiet their mind, nourish their spirit... all that jazz. If you have never done qigong, taoist meditation, or some such, I would start there and get to the altar part later.

 

Please don't take it the wrong way. I base this assertion on what I've been taught and my own experience. E.g., you need to raise inner shields. How do you go about it without an experience of an internal practice? I have no idea. People like to imagine things, but if you want your interactions with the nonordinarly realms (and your protection against intrusions) to be efficient, imagination is not enough -- you need some control of your subtle energies, and some experience perceiving them and recognizing which ones are yours and which ones come from different people and things as well as domains and entities beyond people and things... that's basic safety.

 

Does it make sense so far?

 

If this is not something you are ready to look into and want an altar as a focusing point of your "taoist evolution," I would suggest an ancestral altar for starters. You install tablets with the names of the deceased direct ancestors (the modern way allows to use photographs), place a red candle on each side, an incense burner, and before you eat your dinner, offer some food on the altar. You light the candles and the incense, place the food, water and wine (if you're having that) in front of the tablets, bow, and after a few minutes you can complete the ritual by bowing again, extinguishing the candles, and removing the food. It can be eaten by the living after this, it is not thrown away. If you make a habit of doing this on a regular basis, this is the beginning of learning the basics of discipline associated with any taoist practice. This will take you right out of the philosophical taoism into empirical taoism -- which is a change of pace you are looking for, right?

[sree]

I too want to further my Daoist practise but my philosophy on Daoism calls for a religious practise that is consistent with my reality. Florida today is not China 250 BCE, is it? I can't believe that Daoist wisdom would dictate that I should continue to worship deities of ancient China.

[newTaoist]

Taomeow, I think that I do need preparation before I commit to an altar. Thank you for your time and efforts in guiding me. And I thank everyone else for their input as well.

[Slim]

"Fenxiang means to divide the incense.".......???

 

奉香（Fenxiang） means place burning incense on the altar in the morning and evening to show respect to the Taoist deities.

 

Haha, no that's 分香 not 焚香. Thanks for clarifying, I'll include Chinese next time.

 

PS sorry for highjacking the thread with my philosophical vs. religious Daoism comment. Although an altar is for more then worshipping deities from the perspective of many Daoists.

Edited April 20, 2013 by Slim

[sree]

Ok, I will use your guidance to set up my altar.

 

If this is not something you are ready to look into and want an altar as a focusing point of your "taoist evolution," I would suggest an ancestral altar for starters.

 

Yes, I am not into other realms and just want to focus on a reality that has material significance to my life. The ancestral altar would make a good model.

 

You install tablets with the names of the deceased direct ancestors (the modern way allows to use photographs), place a red candle on each side, an incense burner, and before you eat your dinner, offer some food on the altar. You light the candles and the incense, place the food, water and wine (if you're having that) in front of the tablets, bow, and after a few minutes you can complete the ritual by bowing again, extinguishing the candles, and removing the food. It can be eaten by the living after this, it is not thrown away.

 

Instead of ancestral tablets with names of the deceased, I will place my prized artifacts - native handicraft pieces - on the mantelpiece above the fireplace (which will serve as the altar). They will symbolize the spirit of human talent that I worship. Red candles are scary. I will use scented white candles instead. Just a bowl of fruit will do to invoke gratitude for nature's bounty. I think I will not bow because I would feel silly. After lighting the candles (and the fireplace, if it is chilly), I will pour myself a glass of wine and listen to Andreas Bocelli or the Celtic Minstrels.

 

If you make a habit of doing this on a regular basis, this is the beginning of learning the basics of discipline associated with any taoist practice. This will take you right out of the philosophical taoism into empirical taoism -- which is a change of pace you are looking for, right?

 

I think this will fuse philosophical and empirical Taoism for me! Great stuff, Taomeow. I think I will invite a friend to worship with me this evening. It will be a wonderful ritual before dinner.

Edited April 20, 2013 by sree

[alenli]

some imgs

http://m.baidu.com/s?from=1086k&bd_page_type=1&ssid=0&uid=761A47487925D248BC510A090D2C0877&ref=www_iphone&pu=usm%400%2Csz%401320_1002%2Cta%40iphone_2_2.3_2_3.7&lid=8043940493343901958&tn=bdLISTIphone&st=10312i&pn=0&rn=20&word=%E9%81%93%E5%9D%9B#!/search/%E9%81%93%E5%9D%9B/0