Home Taoist Altar

[C T]

Your take is fascinating.

 

 

I have never quite figured out the division between the inner and the outer.

 

 

Spirituality, to me, is a quality of life, a heightened state of being. Is the separation between the physical and the spiritual a fact or mind-made?

 

 

Another divide again, and this time it is between philosophy and religion, between thought and action.

 

 

How is it possible to bring about mental order through the creation of a physical altar? If I am the creator of the altar and my mind is a chaotic mess, then who is the landscape artist clearing up the mess here, metaphorically speaking?

You seem to have missed the point, but its ok, cos it was intended for newTaoist, and he grasped the idea well enough.

 

There is a certain discipline involved in this exercise (of attending to the altar each day, a few times a day). Besides being a sanctuary for the mind, body and spirit, its physical presence serves as a reminder of one's inner aspirations, and it being there means that it requires tending to, the way other aspects of one's life need to be tended. Usually, a chaotic mind manifests unkemptness, and vice versa.

 

There are many aspects to tending to an altar. Ultimately, the process returns the caretaker to the centre (bindu) of the mandala, or mental universe, which is where divisions, dualistic thoughts and separative issues become nullified. In this way, one could say the altar is a very useful aid to gain progress in this particular direction.

 

Then there are the more other-worldly aspects, which some bums have already mentioned. But for now, i would say there are more than sufficient info presently available for newTaoist to chew on. Lets celebrate his good merits and wish him well on his quest.

[newTaoist]

sree, I agree that it would be great if you started another thread since you appear to have gone somewhat beyond the altar discussion. I do want to continue your discussion as I think it has value. Please don't take this the wrong way. And I'm not trying to cause an argument.

[sree]

sree, maybe you should start a new thread and express your ideas/views there?

becoz, you make some interesting statements and ask good questions,

i would respond to a few of them but i dont want to go too far off topic on this thread.

 

I would do as you say if you would tell me why I need to go away. It is hurtful when someone asks you to leave a party or go play in some other sandbox and don't say why. It's like telling a black guy to shove off or asking a gay fella to leave. They know why they are not wanted even if you don't spell it out.

 

What happened to tolerance? I need to call you out on this, zero. It's for the common good.

[newTaoist]

I don't believe anyone is asking for you to go away, but to try and stay on topic in this thread. As I stated, I hope that you'll start another thread to continue your great conversation.

[Reed]

Better idea, you can obtain a simple wall incense holder, place this on a wall outside, about head height. If you do not know a prayer I can send you one.

 

 

flowing hands, I would appreciate your sending me a prayer. Thank you in advance.

 

 

If it's not a problem, can you stick this prayer on the thread so we can all see it? I'm quite curious as to what a Taoist prayer might be

[newTaoist]

what a great idea Reed! I'm sure we can all benefit from having it.

[zerostao]

I would do as you say if you would tell me why I need to go away. It is hurtful when someone asks you to leave a party or go play in some other sandbox and don't say why. It's like telling a black guy to shove off or asking a gay fella to leave. They know why they are not wanted even if you don't spell it out.

 

What happened to tolerance? I need to call you out on this, zero. It's for the common good.

i dont feel like suggesting that you start a new thread, which i already stated that i found interesting as being intollerant.

i feel that in a new thread we could explore some of the ideas you expressed specifically. and that would be for a greater common good. i like the idea of a nature altar, but it is not a Taoist altar, and this thread is about a Taoist altar, does that make sense?

[joeblast]

I have a halfass altar that isnt really an altar but I have meaningful things on it anyway - a buddha, certain rocks from certain places, a couple certain pictures, singing bowls, a teapot box is probably the only guarded spot there

 

there's dust on it too

[sree]

i dont feel like suggesting that you start a new thread, which i already stated that i found interesting as being intollerant.

i feel that in a new thread we could explore some of the ideas you expressed specifically. and that would be for a greater common good. i like the idea of a nature altar, but it is not a Taoist altar, and this thread is about a Taoist altar, does that make sense?

 

Why didn't you say so? I am glad I imposed on you to speak up.

 

Daoist philosophy is not exclusive even though the various Daoist sects have different beliefs for their respective devotees. As a philosophical Daoist, I don't belong to any sect but that doesn't disqualify me from erecting a Taoist altar that reflects my beliefs. I don't believe in spirits and immortals nor see any connection between them and the Tao Te Ching. Therefore, my altar will be different. Must it be dedicated to the worship of deities to qualify as a Taoist altar?

 

I am a young professional living in present day America not ancient China. I need a Taoist altar to articulate the expression of my Taoist faith. How am I suppose to explain to the people who come to my apartment for dinner and they see my fireplace Taoist altar stacked with red candles and inhabited by Sun Wukong, et al?

 

I know I am breaking barriers and pushing for something new. Is this forbidden?

[joeblast]

the tao expresses itself in myriad ways - while one can certainly focus on what he chooses, that doesnt mean certain connections and other things dont exist.

 

one can smile and nod at a passerby on the street and namaste without extended conversation

[sree]

sree, I agree that it would be great if you started another thread since you appear to have gone somewhat beyond the altar discussion. I do want to continue your discussion as I think it has value. Please don't take this the wrong way. And I'm not trying to cause an argument.

 

As explained to Zero, I am on topic even though my Taoist altar is different from the Chinese traditional one you like. There is no reason why you and I can't worship together at our respective Taoist altars side by side.

Edited April 21, 2013 by sree

[mYTHmAKER]

Worship at an altar in one's heart is still counted as philosophizing, a mental process. Taomeow said religious worship has to be emperical and experienced at the physical level ... like sex.

 

Who's counting LOL

In ones mind a mental process.

In ones heart a physical process.

Similarly is meditation philosophizing?

Where do you truly love - in your heart or your mind?

I try to keep - to feel the fire in my heart burning

and worship at my inner altar where ever i am.

Internal practice vs external practice.

[Birch]

I'm wondering whether the nature altar might be more a topic for the Hermeticism forum? The Taoist altar has well-codified objects and correspondences so to get to those first and then work out IF they have equivalences would be my suggestion.

 

The thread on whether non-believers and believers can discuss the same topics with mutual respect isn't really a thread IMO, it's the spirit of the forum to do so (or try one's damnedest:-)).

[sree]

K, are you saying that the traditional Chinese Taoist altar is the inviolate trademarked Taoist Altar?

 

I seem to be fighting this the way gays fight for the right to get married.

[Birch]

I'm suggesting we get the "classic" one down before discussing others.

The one you're talking about could be a 5 element altar- at least that's what it sounds like to me. So it would be Taoist for sure but use a different system. I reckon if we let this thread mature while different folks weigh in, we'll get to the different types.

[exorcist_1699]

I like the incense part but why Lu Dong Bin? What is his philosophy?

 

Simply because Lu is the most important Taoist figure after Laotze : All Taoist alchemist schools: The South, North , West and East Schools can trace their origins from him ...

[exorcist_1699]

Please be reminded that an immortal is just an 'avatar' of the meta-Qi, an incarnation of It in this world; anyone who can refine her/his degenerated ,post-natal qi and reverse it upward, following the jing-qi-shen path , will become another god that people worship. So, Taoist concept of god worship is different from other religions' . Please don't mix them up....

( See my post on this forum: " Why Taoism is different" )

Edited April 21, 2013 by exorcist_1699

[sree]

The only "classic" Taoist altar would be the Chinese Taoist altar. The one I am talking about is not like any Taoist altar in existence.

 

I am not aware of any religious expression of philosophical Daoism in the west. I don't see any relevance in incorporating Chinese cosmology in the setting up of western Taoist altar. Does it even have to conform to any of the types you refer to? .

[BaguaKicksAss]

After reading the entire thread, I've gotten quite curious. How come Taoism is the only religion, spiritual or magical practice (that I know of), where newbies/uninitiated should not setup an altar? What makes it different? I understand that the altar wouldn't be the same or as strong, but why none at all? I also get that if you have someone with a LOT of natural talent, then things can wake up and go wrong, however other religions don't seem to be as wary for some reason. What is it that usually goes wrong with the Taoist altars if they aren't setup properly?

 

There is one thing which is completely different than the tradition I have been practicing for a time, and that is the eating of the food after leaving it out for the ancestors. I was taught to never do this for reasons of not wanting to join them, their energy being in the food and so forth. Is it pretty much standard with Taists to eat the food afterwards?

 

I have seen ancestor altars setup in other traditions though where folks have ended up with the wrong spirits, some random moochers coming in for the free food so to speak, pretending to be the deceased family. So I can see why folks are careful, but never heard a don't do it before from other traditions.

 

Also, I think there are two sorts of altars, those which are the religious ones where people honour their Deities, and the Deities pretty much own the altar and/or the entire temple room, and there are the altars which are more for bringing about peace, unity and certain energies, but not specific to worship. The second sort seems to be a newer thing from all I can tell.

 

I come from an interesting perspective though, as I know very few people who do not have a home altar or two or entire temple room of some sort.

[BaguaKicksAss]

 

Please be reminded that an immortal is just an 'avatar' of the meta-Qi, an incarnation of It in this world; anyone who can refine her/his degenerated ,post-natal qi and reverse it upward, following the jing-qi-shen path , will become another god that people worship. So, Taoist concept of god worship is different from other religions' . Please don't mix them up....

( See my post on this forum: " Why Taoism is different" )

 

Hey you may have answered my question before I posted it . How does this differ from ancestor honouring or worship?

[rene]

..... I've been a Philosophical Daoist for about 10 years and am ready to take the next step in my practice and think an altar will help me.

 

Any thoughts? Thanks.

 

The next step in which direction?

 

In the pursuit of Tao, every day something is dropped.

 

For me,

the mountains are my alter

the rocks my body

the streams my blood

what small thing need remind me

that every breath is prayer?

 

 

After your 10 years, if you feel more needs to be added to help you find what was never lost in the first place, then that may indeed be your journey and I wish you well. (-:

 

warm regards

[JustBHappy]

Why would such a person need an altar?

 

Yeah, I agree.

 

Unless your into religious Taoism then it's not really too useful. Also, if your into that, then you will already have an idea of how to build the altar and what to do with it.

 

Otherwise, your altar is always there.

 

In other words:

 

1. Your Mind

2. Your Body

3.Your perceptions ( the "external world")

 

Make the best Taoist altar in my opinion.

 

 

[sree]

Otherwise, your altar is always there.

 

In other words:

 

1. Your Mind

2. Your Body

3.Your perceptions ( the "external world")

 

Make the best Taoist altar in my opinion.

 

How would you perform worship at such an altar? Remember, it has to be empirical and experienced at the physical level...like sex.

[sree]

After your 10 years, if you feel more needs to be added to help you find what was never lost in the first place, then that may indeed be your journey and I wish you well. (-:

 

Ritual celebration in worship affirms the material substantiality of life. If you realize you have never lost it, then the more reason to celebrate.

 

Let's set up that altar. How about it?

[rene]

JBH - hi (-:

 

Yeah, I agree.

Unless your into religious Taoism then it's not really too useful. Also, if your into that, then you will already have an idea of how to build the altar and what to do with it.

 

Otherwise, your altar is always there.

 

In other words:

1. Your Mind
2. Your Body

3.Your perceptions ( the "external world")

 

Make the best Taoist altar in my opinion.

 

Your three things make a good Tao altar... but not a Taoist altar. The difference between following tao and following taoism (religious or philosophical) seems to be lost in this thread.

 

warm regards