The Tao of Dying

[三江源]

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Edited April 4, 2015 by 三江源

[sree]

The whole thread. It has to do with what I understand as major differences between Taoism and Buddhism in views around the process of formation of mindbodyspirit. Sorry to use that term but its as close an approximation as I can get to between a 'materialist to begin with' concept I'm quite well aquainted with having grown up with it and the other ones which are as far as I can see 'not materialist' to begin with.

 

Buddhist enlightenment is one direction only 'jing qi shen'. Taoist immortality is any which way they cultivate.

 

But like I said, correct me if I'm off the mark.

 

I think not just you but we are all incorrigible. What are you? A Taoist or a Buddhist? Either way you are coming through off the mark. Can you think without thoughts mangled by Buddhism and Taoism? Can we speak without words garbled by any language?

 

The Tao of dying has nothing to do with the body.

[sree]

How did he die?

 

What if it is you on that table? I look into your opened eyes as I hold your hand after the removal of that needle. You look into my eyes..... and you are gone.

 

How do you die?

[Samurai Mountain man]

Your talent is in the field of mechanical engineering. Thanks for your efforts in contributing to this thread.

 

That's so not true, I have no talent!

[Birch]

I think not just you but we are all incorrigible. What are you? A Taoist or a Buddhist? Either way you are coming through off the mark. Can you think without thoughts mangled by Buddhism and Taoism? Can we speak without words garbled by any language?

 

The Tao of dying has nothing to do with the body.

Neither

[Birch]

I'm sorry to hear about your dog dying.

[thelerner]

What if it is you on that table? I look into your opened eyes as I hold your hand after the removal of that needle. You look into my eyes..... and you are gone.

 

How do you die?

I'd bite you. One last taste of hot flowing blood.

Give me something interesting to look at as I pass away.

Edited April 22, 2013 by thelerner

[sree]

I'd bite you. One last taste of hot flowing blood.

Give me something interesting to look at as I pass away.

 

You are what I was getting at whenever I ask the question "how do I die?" And I ask this all the time.

There is no dying for you. Same here, and it's troubling. How does one live a life without knowing how to die?

How does one ride a horse without knowing how to get off? Yet, we clamber on the horse without a care by bringing children into this world with no concerns about how to get out. Consequently, everyone gets thrown off at the end of the ride in a state of anxiety.

 

The Tao Te Ching is a book of wisdom. Anyone can pick up this classic, read it and come away with nonsensical foolishness.

Fools don't read the Tao Te Ching. They read themselves into it and come away with cultivation practices ranging from martial arts to pole dancing. Does anyone care about the Tao of dying? It's a more powerful practice than taichi and semen retention.

[Wu Ming Jen]

If you want to know the end go back to the beginning. people fear death there whole life but when death is at your door it can not come fast enough. Head towards the gate of life turn around and go the other way back to the beginning.Death of illusion, the self, now you're on your way home. we may forget a lot of things with our awesome physical form while we are here even forget how to get home.Do the work of a thousand life times now, there is no begining or end and what ever "thinks" differently actualy does die. Taoist are not interested in death or dying, does not give any speculation on after death at all. All is alive be here now fully present Needing to know how to die is an ego that needs to be killed now.The ego is the only thing interested in such things

Edited April 23, 2013 by Wu Ming Jen

[sree]

You come across like a recorded message. Seriously. Hi, this is Sree, I am not home right now. Please leave a message and I will get right back to you.

 

We are all recorded message-makers. Hello, how are you? Door closing, please mind the platform gap. The train will arrive in five minutes. Haven't seen you in a while, how's the family? Hail Mary, full of grace, the lord is with thee. Give us this day our daily bread.

 

Jesus Christ! How did I get here? This is a recorded message.

[Wu Ming Jen]

Like talking to the deaf around here. Stick with what you know. If not versed in all the Taoist saying from above maybe another system is better suited for you.

[thelerner]

We might want to consider what aspect of Dying he's looking to explore. Physical, afterlife, spirituality of acknowledgement, etc., Tao can be as slippery a concept as god.

 

Rambling on.. How to die? I didn't know how to get born either. It just happened (as far as I know). Eating, drinking, sex..happens, I learn on the fly, follow nature, sometimes get advice from a friend or a book. Death is a great unknown. It's not a horse to be ridden, its ..the opposite of birth.(?) Without experiential reference we're trusting (blindly) in a religious or philosophical source. Living with a certain awareness and calm acceptance of death may be our best bet. Though there are practices such phowa, certain dream yoga and deep taoists practices that might give us trial runs at experiencing death. Or those practices might be complicated illusions we fool ourselves with.

 

In any case, calm acceptance is the low fruit on the tree. Simple but not easy. Where ever ones inquiry leads, I think we have to pick that fruit first.

Edited April 24, 2013 by thelerner

[Birch]

Tibetan book of the dead? Wasn't that a training manual for how to die and how to ensure rebirth in the 'chosen' family?

 

After a strange personal experience (more strange dreams...) in which I helped a dying relative as he selected his next life, I looked into this a bit http://www.psychopomps.org/ because I wasn't by myself in the dream, the process was helped by a character I can only describe as a 'death midwife'.

 

For myself, I have no idea.

[thetaoiseasy]

...

Edited March 24, 2014 by thetaoiseasy

[thelerner]

I'm reminded of my sister. She has an active fear of death. Because of it she volunteers at a hospice.

 

Beyond theory and conjecture, a real practice, that puts you on the front line, no where to hide. Want to know how to die- Volunteer at one. Be with the dying. No theorizing.. being..compassion, being..real.

[Taomeow]

 

Edited April 24, 2013 by Taomeow

[sree]

 

What did you edit out? Come back.

[DragonsNectar69k]

What do you mean? I am talking about the Tao of dying. This means the Way of dying.

 

No body lasts for ever and each of us has to live in connection with the body. The body knows the Way because it is connected with Nature. Are you connected to the body? If you are, then you are one with the body and vanish as the body checks out and stops breathing forever.

 

This is how I see it. It is like riding. If you know how to ride well, then you are one with the horse. A good rider knows the Tao of riding. If you know how to live in oneness with the body, then you know the Tao of dying.

 

Yes, but I have had plenty of out-of-body experiences to know that the body is a mere vessel at best that is designed by one's own inherited DNA. There is something that pervades the body, one can call it whatever they want, but it is something eternal that stays with us for eternity. This spiritual body, conscious body, subtle body, etc, whatever you want to call is what cultivating is usually all about. Certain sutras and vedas speak of the rainbow body, diamond body, a meta-physical body etc. It is all up to the practitioner to cultivate what they are seeking.

 

Dying in this sense is of the physical body. Comparing my OBE's, it is more enjoyable to have a physical body because it seems one is limited in their spiritual body due to their extent of realized consciousness or higher self, etc. With my physical I can do more and experience more in this plane. But I have also done things with my subtle body that I can not do with my physical body. So it is all relative. Dying is merely moving on to another life in the path of eternity. I have heard of very healthy people 'dying' and leaving this realm painlessly because it was their 'time' to go as well as seeing most people die miserably because they do not want to accept their life/current fate. Tis all.

 

This reminds me, in esoteric circles, as well in the book of Revelation in the bible, there is something known as the second death. Read up on that if you will. The second death I believe deals with one's spiritual body. But it is hardly taught or talked about in most churches or dogmatic religions these days and as far as I am concerned, there is more to the bible and the book of Revelation than meets the eye. Unfortunately the early leaders of the Catholic Church dismantled some of the sacred text and we are left with what we have today. The rest, one has to fill in by Spirit.

Edited April 24, 2013 by DragonsNectar69k

[DragonsNectar69k]

Tibetan book of the dead? Wasn't that a training manual for how to die and how to ensure rebirth in the 'chosen' family? After a strange personal experience (more strange dreams...) in which I helped a dying relative as he selected his next life, I looked into this a bit http://www.psychopomps.org/ because I wasn't by myself in the dream, the process was helped by a character I can only describe as a 'death midwife'. For myself, I have no idea.

 

Yep, eternity. Tis why it is silly to spend life fighting others. We will always be with one another, in heaven or hell, mind you. This mid-wife may have been a previous spouse in a past life or higher being from a higher world doing her heavenly duties, and from my experience some of these females are REALLY nice and very giving. In certain religions, such as mormonism, baptisms for the dead is practice to help relatives who may be stuck in the 'pre-mortal' world, astral realm, whatever you want to call it, the realm you can only see with your inner-eye, to pass on and initiate said relative with higher beings and angels, according to those who practice said religion.

[sree]

I'm reminded of my sister. She has an active fear of death. Because of it she volunteers at a hospice.

 

Beyond theory and conjecture, a real practice, that puts you on the front line, no where to hide. Want to know how to die- Volunteer at one. Be with the dying. No theorizing.. being..compassion, being..real.

 

I am not afraid of death. My problem is being alive. What's the point? It's like being asked to report for duty and no one comes forth to present me with an assignment. Here I am standing around waiting for instruction or some explanation why I am in this world. I want to get on with it. Volunteer at a hospice? This whole world is a hospice. I was put in this hospice of a reality the day I was born. And no one wants to die because none knows how.

 

Do you get me sweetheart?

Edited April 24, 2013 by sree

[DragonsNectar69k]

I am not afraid of death. My problem is being alive. What's the point? It's like being asked to report for duty and no one comes forth to present me with an assignment. Here I am standing around waiting for instruction or some explanation why I am in this world. I want to get on with it. Volunteer at a hospice? This whole world is a hospice. I was put in this hospice of a reality the day I was born. And no one wants to die because none knows how.

 

Do you get me sweetheart?

 

HAHAHA! YES! I AGREE ENTIRELY. I have felt the same way for many years. Fortunately I have found ways to fill my time with entertaining things and challenges. Life is what you make it.

[sree]

Yes, but I have had plenty of out-of-body experiences to know that the body is a mere vessel at best that is designed by one's own inherited DNA. There is something that pervades the body, one can call it whatever they want, but it is something eternal that stays with us for eternity. This spiritual body, conscious body, subtle body, etc, whatever you want to call is what cultivating is usually all about. Certain sutras and vedas speak of the rainbow body, diamond body, a meta-physical body etc. It is all up to the practitioner to cultivate what they are seeking.

 

The body is not a mere vessel. It doesn't exist. Just because you see it in the mirror and you pat yourself on the head you believe you have a body.

 

Dying in this sense is of the physical body. Comparing my OBE's, it is more enjoyable to have a physical body because it seems one is limited in their spiritual body due to their extent of realized consciousness or higher self, etc. With my physical I can do more and experience more in this plane. But I have also done things with my subtle body that I can not do with my physical body. So it is all relative. Dying is merely moving on to another life in the path of eternity. I have heard of very healthy people 'dying' and leaving this realm painlessly because it was their 'time' to go as well as seeing most people die miserably because they do not want to accept their life/current fate. Tis all.

 

Just listen to yourself. If you talk like this at my dinner party, no one at the table would say anything. Nuts. You need to get a grip of yourself.

 

This reminds me, in esoteric circles, as well in the book of Revelation in the bible, there is something known as the second death. Read up on that if you will. The second death I believe deals with one's spiritual body. But it is hardly taught or talked about in most churches or dogmatic religions these days and as far as I am concerned, there is more to the bible and the book of Revelation than meets the eye. Unfortunately the early leaders of the Catholic Church dismantled some of the sacred text and we are left with what we have today. The rest, one has to fill in by Spirit.

 

I have no interest in the Christian afterlife, Buddhist Nirvana or the Taoist Jade Heaven. I have to make a living with one foot planted on Wall Street and the other in this forum to take the pressure off. A second death is a bit too far out for me even after the market closes here. Money never sleeps let alone die. I just placed some trades in Asia.

[DragonsNectar69k]

 

The body is not a mere vessel. It doesn't exist. Just because you see it in the mirror and you pat yourself on the head you believe you have a body.

 

 

Just listen to yourself. If you talk like this at my dinner party, no one at the table would say anything. Nuts. You need to get a grip of yourself.

 

 

I have no interest in the Christian afterlife, Buddhist Nirvana or the Taoist Jade Heaven. I have to make a living with one foot planted on Wall Street and the other in this forum to take the pressure off. A second death is a bit too far out for me even after the market closes here. Money never sleeps let alone die. I just placed some trades in Asia.

 

Interesting. What does the stock market have to do with OBEs and how can you refute something you have probably never experienced yourself? As for the afterlife, there is only eternity, tap into your subconscious mind if you will and you will see with the inner eye. This is something you must seek and i am no teacher to the unbeliever, that is your own problem, or should i say i will pray for the higher beings to wake you but you may not like what you see...

[DragonsNectar69k]

I also must state, no one goes to heaven... They become it, they realize it... Same for hell.

Edited April 24, 2013 by DragonsNectar69k

[Birch]

I was just thinking, for some, the tragedy is not that we die, but that we don't.

Anyway, aside from my speculations and strange dreams and interests, the rest of the time I spend in attempts in various ways to enjoy my life. If a job is draining the life-force from me then it gets questioned, if not binned. As does the company I keep and the things I do.

 

I know someone on Wall St, he told me the people there burn out quite regularly.