The Tao of Dying

[sree]

You don't take risks even if they can be hedged. Your ultimate exit point is still a risk and no one here or probably anywhere else can help you understand things right.

 

If I thought no one could figure it out, I wouldn't ask, would I? I am optimistic.

 

Making judgements might seem authoritative but it does not take intellect to throw out subjective adjectives- good bad, neat, tough, great, ambiguous, creative, uptight.

 

It took intellect and much wisdom to make all those authoritative judgments in practically every Chapter of the Tao Te Ching.

 

I know the prevailing and fashionable sentiment of the day is not to be judgmental, nothing is wrong and everything is right even when someone bop you on the head and kick you in the butt - be nice, let the lions bite.

 

So, how come the the Chinese Tao Te Ching is authoritative and its western reader is politically-correct?

 

Why, and still what does this mean how to die? Perhaps help us understand what objective criteria would determine a successful or ideal exit point?

 

I don't know. I could hazard a guess.

 

When I look at nature - and mankind is included - I see an amazing set-up. If a human being created that, then a lot of thought was put into it and it was a damn good job. My critique on the design is, I see only two things that don't make sense: one is the violence prey must suffer to feed predators, and two is this ridiculous manner of exit called death. I know, I know...all you philosophical Daoists will give me that Lao Tzu wuwei and Chuang Tzu bs and tell me to go to sleep.

 

Ok, here is my guess. The ideal exit is a fade out. Now, don't imagine this and try to fake it.

[zanshin]

If I thought no one could figure it out, I wouldn't ask, would I? I am optimistic.

 

 

It took intellect and much wisdom to make all those authoritative judgments in practically every Chapter of the Tao Te Ching.

 

I know the prevailing and fashionable sentiment of the day is not to be judgmental, nothing is wrong and everything is right even when someone bop you on the head and kick you in the butt - be nice, let the lions bite.

 

So, how come the the Chinese Tao Te Ching is authoritative and its western reader is politically-correct?

 

 

I don't know. I could hazard a guess.

 

When I look at nature - and mankind is included - I see an amazing set-up. If a human being created that, then a lot of thought was put into it and it was a damn good job. My critique on the design is, I see only two things that don't make sense: one is the violence prey must suffer to feed predators, and two is this ridiculous manner of exit called death. I know, I know...all you philosophical Daoists will give me that Lao Tzu wuwei and Chuang Tzu bs and tell me to go to sleep.

 

Ok, here is my guess. The ideal exit is a fade out. Now, don't imagine this and try to fake it.

I don't think it was a good job at all, problems of aging like arthritis, osteoporosis, cancer, senility. My neighbor who retired to be diagnosed within the year with parkinsons and colon cancer said whoever called it the golden years he'd like to punch them in the mouth. If I was a creator, I would give people a nice suffering violence free time to enjoy themselves at least after reproductive years and peacefully fade out after a determined time to wrap things up. So are you worried about idea of afterlife or you just want to fadeout without suffering?

[zanshin]

Chapter 19 advocates the abandonment of knowledge. This means that to find the Tao of dying everything in our heads must be junked - no zen, no biology or pyschology, not even Taoism.

But Professor, you told me in post 83 there is no way possible to understand things beyond the intellectual level.

[Wu Ming Jen]

sree is already dead the rational and intellectual mind has taken over.time is an absolute and real thing to him and he is not able to escape. he is in hell meaning separated from the whole. That is why his mind does not except views from outside of the "frogs well" he lives in. Anything mystical will rub his ego the wrong way because it already has full control. Health wealth and happiness the taoist motto to you, Now sree tell us all about being dead.

[Birch]

I don't think he's dead at all. Far from it.

 

---very personal not concierge opinion, have to put that in----

[Wu Ming Jen]

Full of it life, yes and the opposite appears as soon as only one side is pointed out. well done

[DragonsNectar69k]

sree is already dead the rational and intellectual mind has taken over.time is an absolute and real thing to him and he is not able to escape. he is in hell meaning separated from the whole. That is why his mind does not except views from outside of the "frogs well" he lives in. Anything mystical will rub his ego the wrong way because it already has full control. Health wealth and happiness the taoist motto to you, Now sree tell us all about being dead.

Hrmmm. Possibly. That is a good way to describe hell to be honest. But I grew up always wondering what it would be like to visit hell and well, I got bored and left. lolz.

 

In my opinion there is nothing wrong about living within the mind. There is nothing wrong with being wrong. Nothing at all. It is the mind itself that dictates and stirs one consciousness to what one may randomly desire or to think that one needs to experience or have something to subsist. What is interesting and is something that I have noticed concerning the mind IS, if one stirs to the left, it also seems that you automatically get pulled to the right as well due to momentum, so to speak. One could easily be enlightened and not even know until SOME ONE else says hey... I think your enlightened! Do you think the Buddha knew he was? Who the heck told him!? How did he know?

 

Full of it life, yes and the opposite appears as soon as only one side is pointed out. well done

 

Hrmmm. Possibly. But what is wrong with being full of it? It all seems ambiguously relative to me

 

@spree, you seem like some one who is rather bored with life. You seem like you don't like have to sit and watch your money all day. You would rather be doing some thing else. As money is something that is a mere illusion, an abstraction. I guess a good question to ask is, WHAT IS REAL and NOT AN ILLUSION? Pretty sure a buddhist perspective could answer this.

 

You also raised a great question about the purpose of life and why you are here. I use to think the same thing all the time. Until I realized, that just maybe, I was apart of the creation some how. That a part of myself, that I have realized through OBE's and Lucid dreams is eternal and that living on earth is heaven for those who chose to view it that way. We are all creators and it seems many of us enjoy manipulating and coercing this abstract creation of money. We all seem to be fascinated by it, but in reality it is nothing, just a creation of the mind. If I had the means to go and live in a farm I would. F8ck the rest of society. I know who I am and whom I want to be, or at least I believe i know. But $ is always the issue isn't it?

[sree]

If I had the means to go and live in a farm I would. F8ck the rest of society. I know who I am and whom I want to be, or at least I believe i know. But $ is always the issue isn't it?

 

You don't want to live in the farm. You are just saying it. There was a movie called "Lost in America" about a guy who got pissed with society and wanted to change his life. So, he quit his job and went to "live in a farm". It didn't work out and he tried to get back. I promise I won't laugh, but for you and all you on the path out there who are disaffected with society and think you can make it with the hornbills, watch this:

 

Edited April 26, 2013 by sree

[sree]

I don't think it was a good job at all, problems of aging like arthritis, osteoporosis, cancer, senility. My neighbor who retired to be diagnosed within the year with parkinsons and colon cancer said whoever called it the golden years he'd like to punch them in the mouth. If I was a creator, I would give people a nice suffering violence free time to enjoy themselves at least after reproductive years and peacefully fade out after a determined time to wrap things up. So are you worried about idea of afterlife or you just want to fadeout without suffering?

 

Ok, ok, I give you that. I forgot and meant to include that screw-up in the design critique too. If it wasn't for the damn body, we wouldn't need to do this research project on the Tao of dying.

 

You are pretty good. Why don't you come work with me on this either as a PhD student or I can offer you an assistant professorship position and we can write this thesis that will transform mankind.

[sree]

But Professor, you told me in post 83 there is no way possible to understand things beyond the intellectual level.

 

Junking knowledge doesn't mean scraping our ability to think. It's like reformatting your hard-drive and wipe it clean of all previously installed operating system, programs, files with their cookies, viruses and malwares.

 

Can you do that? If you were desanitized and wiped clean, what do you think that would feel like? As I said, there is nothing beyond the intellectual level. This means all knowledge - including superstition or mystic fantasy about the eternal Tao - is information generated by the processor. Understanding things beyond the intellectual level is the calling of fools whose heads are stuffed with junk. They can't see straight for the junk and blame it on the limitation of the processor.

Edited April 26, 2013 by sree

[zanshin]

 

Junking knowledge doesn't mean scraping our ability to think. It's like reformatting your hard-drive and wipe it clean of all previously installed operating system, programs, files with their cookies, viruses and malwares.

 

Can you do that? If you were desanitized and wiped clean, what do you think that would feel like? As I said, there is nothing beyond the intellectual level. This means all knowledge - including superstition or mystic fantasy about the eternal Tao - is information generated by the processor. Understanding things beyond the intellectual level is the calling of fools whose heads are stuffed with junk. They can't see straight for the junk and blame it on the limitation of the processor.

Animals die all the time and although they too can be ravaged by disease and age and the hard drive may be a little simpler, it stays running much cleaner than the human version. So they go about their life and do try to preserve it, yet not much angst about inevitable death except for times when there is actually a threat. Old animals seem to know when it's time and go off somewhere quiet to lay and wait. It is possible to think and understand things without words and texts and analysis.

 

Well the guy in the clip was silly, but I think some people are more practical about wanting to live on a farm. I know I can live on a farm because that is where I grew up. Hobby has been looking for country place sort of for permanent campsite for now and retirement place later and may be getting close on one with potential. So, I will put in an order. Plans to retire fairly young and get a place already pending fairly well, so order is for part harder to control. Want 20 years post retirement with good health and mobility, will be gardening, making raspberry wine and maybe alpacas. Then, I want to go suddenly when a brain aneurysm bursts while I am sitting on the patio drinking tea and watching the birds. Finally, they should cremate me and my nephew can put the ashes in the fertilizer spreader and lay me down on the home farm. And that is my order for how to die, wish me luck ok.

Edited April 26, 2013 by zanshin

[sree]

sree is already dead the rational and intellectual mind has taken over.time is an absolute and real thing to him and he is not able to escape. he is in hell meaning separated from the whole. That is why his mind does not except views from outside of the "frogs well" he lives in. Anything mystical will rub his ego the wrong way because it already has full control. Health wealth and happiness the taoist motto to you, Now sree tell us all about being dead.

 

Mr Wu, I really wish you would pay attention to your punctuation and sentence construction. You are writing English, not classical Chinese.

 

Material reality is neither absolute nor objective but perceptual, and to some extent subjective. This doesn't mean one can walk out of space-time reality into the sixth dimension to visit with the Three Pure Ones or travel through time. The Taoist motto, to me...to me, ok? (as Bruce Lee would emphasize) is to study and internalize the Tao Te Ching and still be able to function sanely in the real world with bankers, business people, the person on the other side of the line in Amsterdam straightening out my flight connections to Shanghai. Coming to this forum to make yourself understood and feeling validated doesn't count.

Edited April 26, 2013 by sree

[xor]

...

Edited May 23, 2013 by Guest

[sree]

Animals die all the time and although they too can be ravaged by disease and age and the hard drive may be a little simpler, it stays running much cleaner than the human version. So they go about their life and do try to preserve it, yet not much angst about inevitable death except for times when there is actually a threat. Old animals seem to know when it's time and go off somewhere quiet to lay and wait. It is possible to think and understand things without words and texts and analysis.

 

Old animals? Have you seen any besides your dog or cat? I have never seen an old squirrel in my garden. Not even a pot-bellied middle-aged one. Birds too. They are all young and feisty. What I am getting at is this: they don't suffer old age. There is no old age pain in nature. This is why I feel nature-loving human Daoists who are into longetivity and immortality are on the wrong track. Part of our research into the Tao of dying needs to examine a timely exit. We should live like animals in nature and our human world should be like a well-run food market where nothing is beyond the sell-by date. Nothing is more annoying than taking stuff out of my grocery bag when I get home and find that the bread is two-days past its sell-by date.

 

I think, if we take good care of our bodies eating organic food and regularly exercise, a good time to go would be 75 provided we are perfectly healthy; otherwise, the check out date should be the onset of a serious disease like parkinsons or cancer.

 

What do you think?

Edited April 26, 2013 by sree

[sree]

Taking the analogy of operating systems... Instead of reinstalling the same operating system requiring you to do the same thing over again when it becomes slow and/or starts to crash on it's own why not install one that is almost impervious to this crap?

Let's get our analogy right. The computer operating system facilitates the running of programs. "We" (I am not defining what we are because I am "reformatted" and have no knowledge) are the operating system - this state of consciousness - and it starts running at the onset of awareness.

 

So, explain how consciousness - prior to awareness - acts to re-install a "fail-safe" version of consciousness. You don't have to follow my line of reasoning but no third-eye rubbish, please. No crap.

Edited April 26, 2013 by sree

[thelerner]

I think, if we take good care of our bodies eating organic food and regularly exercise, a good time to go would be 75 provided we are perfectly healthy; otherwise, the check out date should be the onset of a serious disease like parkinsons or cancer.

 

What do you think?

Interesting question. I've been exposed to enough Japanese philosophy that suicide doesn't have as much negative connotation for me as it does for much of Western society.

 

Can't make a blanket statement about others. But personally I'd fight beyond the outset of a serious disease, past perfect health. My grandmother was seemingly on her death bed several times, pulled out of it, recovered surprisingly well and had a few more good years, seeing her grandchildren and enjoying life.

 

If we quit when the going gets tough we'd never learn to walk, read or write. In a life where there are always good days and bad, the trick is making the good ones count (and maybe seeing the bad ones aren't so bad). The sun on the face, fragrance of fresh air, watching children play, keeping up tabs on your family and friends. Not causing friends and family the unnecessary pain which often accompanies most suicides.

 

There's a line where suicide or letting myself die lies, but life is precious enough not to let it go too soon.

[shanlung]

 

You are pretty good. Why don't you come work with me on this either as a PhD student or I can offer you an assistant professorship position and we can write this thesis that will transform mankind.

 

HA HA HA HA HAAAA

 

ROFLMAO!

 

Not only is Sree casting pearls galore left and right in addition to his aspersions and innuendoes in rolling barrages across the field. Flattening all that will not agree with him or pay him the homage that he craved and yearned for.

 

What do I see now but profused offerings of PhDs and assistant professorship as well.

All his to give as he wishes. How about telling us which academic he is from? That is so free with $$$$

for Sree to throw even in times of recession?

Guess next he will throw in his Gulfstream.and fleet of RRs to ferry anyone signing up to be his minion and acolytes

 

Sree should take his medications properly or the only farm he is going to will be the funny farm.

 

Nah! nix that! Sree is so entertaining and positively delightful cute and adorable character.

 

 

Taoistic Idiot

[zanshin]

Leukocytosis

Edited April 19, 2020 by zanshin

[zanshin]

On 4/26/2013 at 11:32 AM, shanlung said:

HA HA HA HA HAAAA

 

ROFLMAO!

 

Not only is Sree casting pearls galore left and right in addition to his aspersions and innuendoes in rolling barrages across the field. Flattening all that will not agree with him or pay him the homage that he craved and yearned for.

 

What do I see now but profused offerings of PhDs and assistant professorship as well.

All his to give as he wishes. How about telling us which academic he is from? That is so free with $$$$

for Sree to throw even in times of recession?

Guess next he will throw in his Gulfstream.and fleet of RRs to ferry anyone signing up to be his minion and acolytes

 

Sree should take his medications properly or the only farm he is going to will be the funny farm.

 

Nah! nix that! Sree is so entertaining and positively delightful cute and adorable character.

 

 

Taoistic Idiot

Sausage fest

Edited April 19, 2020 by zanshin

[DragonsNectar69k]

Coming to this forum to make yourself understood and feeling validated doesn't count.

Hrmm. You need a mirror.

[Samurai Mountain man]

Chengping staph, I know it's you.

[sree]

Chengping staph, I know it's you.

 

You know it's who? Goddam, that old farm girl is like nothing of that kind of gal I've seen in real life. I would never have guessed she was an old farm girl on account of her amazing grasp of reality. She definitely is doctoral material.

 

This is the internet and we are in a party with the lights out and it's pitch black. Nobody knows who anyone is. Stop groping...or is it grokking?

Edited April 26, 2013 by sree

[sree]

Hrmm. You need a mirror.

 

What are you implying? I came here to seek validation? This forum is like a beehive of angry bees out to kill me. Stosh is the lead bee.

[Samurai Mountain man]

What are you implying? I came here to seek validation? This forum is like a beehive of angry bees out to kill me. Stosh is the lead bee.

Clearly, what we have here is a FAILURE TO COM-MU-NI-CATE!

Because everyone is perceiving it the other way arround. Like you're one angry yellowjacket crashing the picnic.

Aren't human interactions lovely?

 

I propose we start the thread over so as we can resume peaceful discussion.

[xor]

...

Edited May 23, 2013 by Guest