The Tao of Dying

[zanshin]

If you cast a spell that turns a billionaire into a rat trapped in a maze, then that same spell turns you into a crawly jar insect. You don't really care to be an insect, do you? You just have an aversion for billionaires, and this class warfare mentality is destroying America.

 

Look, you have just one life. What do you have against having the money to live like a dragonfly flitting to anywhere you want to go and lazing in the sun all your life in absolute financial freedom?

 

 

Yes, this life is all we've got. I think karma is true. If you choose to be a bug, you will die as a bug. To me, reincarnation is a cop out for losers who don't have gumption to make it. This is very unAmerican. I believe in metamorphosis, though. If you don't want to scoot about in the water squirting water through your anus all your life and die as a larva, you'd better think this through with me so that you can turn into an immortal dragonfly.

Why is it about money and billionaires as brilliant masters of the universe now? Mostly I would not want attention to go with money on scale of Bill Gates, not against him having it. No turning into immortal dragonfly either,although being my own water slide does sound cool. Will stick withmayfly and live with wild abandon for just one day over endlessly chasing cheese in a maze.

 

Burn out or fade away?

[Horus]

I think this is an interesting question to put forward.

 

What I'd like to ask people (particularly those who have practiced the advanced immortal embryo exrecises) is why?

 

Is it not sufficient that we are immortal as spirit anyway? I have had many conversations with spirits that didnt create immortal bodies prior to death - and they are still conscious enought to correspond with.

 

What is it that the immortal spirit body goives us that we dont have anyway - consciousness is immortal no?

[sree]

If it's a lie it's his lie not mine.

 

Ok, let's say it is a misunderstanding. Eben was in a coma and no brain activity was detected for a week. But his body was not dead; otherwise, rigormortis would have set in and it would have taken Jesus Christ to bring him back to life to tell his story.

 

Nothing preposterous about brain not having anything to do with consciousness. I for one will agree with you and I would guess after listening to his lecture on youtube Eben would also agree with you.

 

Oh no, Eben is nowhere in the same ballpark as mine. His near-death experience is not different in substance from that of Gentlewind and others. The only difference between him and others is that Eben is a neurosurgeon and, therefore, a credible witness with unimpeachable authority to laymen.

 

Eben belongs to a community of neuro-scientists who preach that the brain is the creator of consciousness which they track on their functional brain imaging machines. And when Eben's near-death experience could not be supported by any record of neuro activity in his brain, he had to make a leap of faith and declare that consciousness can operate independently of the brain. This is his theory that he is selling to the layman through his book "Proof of Heaven". I don't think the scientific community is buying any of it owing to lack of proof that there is Heaven.

 

If you agree with Eben, then you cannot agree with me. I neither buy Eben's proof of Heaven nor the scientific contention that consciousness comes from the brain.

 

Was he lying then that he was a materialist before his experience?

 

Eben is just an ordinary guy with medical knowledge and skills. He patches up a structurally injured brain the way the mechanic repairs a car engine. Just because he is a brain mechanic, does not mean he has more credibility than the car mechanic. And that's how I see it.

 

Here's the technique I used. Going to sleep try to keep awareness. After some tries your mind will stay awake after the body has gone to sleep.

 

Let's say your body is alseep and your mind is awake and there is awareness of mental wakefulness and bodily sleep.

 

How do you know that the body is asleep? Can you see it sleeping? And what is the nature of the wakefulness of the mind? Is it as though you are awake and can think, see, touch, hear, taste and smell?

 

Why would I want to prove you wrong? But I try my best with the objective part.

 

You should want to prove me wrong if what I am telling you is not true to you. This is the proper thing to do.

[Wu Ming Jen]

I have been dieing to say something because it is so dead on. It may stop you dead in your tracks. You may die laughing after hearing or is it reading this.

 

This mighty mud ball of a world burdens us with a body and people say life is a blessing. If life is a blessing then death must be a blessing too. After hearing the Tao I could die at any moment. I killed my self so there is nothing left to die and whose body is this?

 

The Tao is to die for every one seeks it and it is in plain view. Plants have consciousness they turn to the sun. Where are plants brains? My brain is ridiculous and stupid so I gave up thinking so much because it exhausted my spirit. Now my spirit is tranquil, calm and loves life. My ego is pissed off after losing control, my ego loved making life difficult and death.

Edited May 6, 2013 by Wu Ming Jen

[sree]

Plants have consciousness they turn to the sun. Where are plants brains?

 

Mr Wu, just because plants turn to the sun don't mean they are conscious of the sun. Iron nails are attracted to magnets. Does that mean nails are conscious of magnets and therefore nails have brains?

 

Also, not everything that moves is alive. Logic without intelligence is a monk heading for Naraka.

[xor]

...

Edited May 23, 2013 by Guest

[ChiDragon]

 

I am afraid that the more I try to clarify, the more misconceptions I inadvertantly create. It's best I stop explaining.

 

Please do just stop here. Period. This thread is not going to die, isn't it.....???

[Wu Ming Jen]

This is Mister Wu I am having a Before death experience. Inanimate objects can show me things. Living things do not all have brains, you should be able to relate to that sree.

 

If not all living things have brains but do what they do naturally, Then every living thing has consciousness.

 

Is there fire inside wood? Who discovered water? why does earth support everything? Why does metal cut wood. Why does fire boil water are they having sex? Is God gay, why is he not married?

 

As I said before I'm having a before death experience. I hope this does not kill the thread or is it all ready dead? like beating a dead horse.

Edited May 6, 2013 by Wu Ming Jen

[sree]

No, this thread is not dead because it is dealing with a profound question: the Tao of dying. I like the fact that no one has been able to find the answer. People just die when their time has come. The same thing will happen to me if I don't find the Tao of dying.

 

How's your before death experience, Mr Wu? Are you suffering any illnesses or financial difficulties? What about relationship issues and emotional problems?

Edited May 6, 2013 by sree

[sree]

 

Please do just stop here. Period. This thread is not going to die, isn't it.....???

 

I don't think this thread will ever die. No one knows the Tao of dying and to search for it is an urgent need for everybody. It is like the need to find the washroom/toilet at the restaurant and do our business properly in the right way. No one can suppress the urge to defecate and urinate for very long. In the end, it's all going to come out in our pants if we just sit there and do nothing. Meanwhile, everybody is pretending that it's no big deal.

 

I don't need to go to the washroom yet but I can't bear to see the mess and so much suffering. I want to devote my life to finding the washroom for you guys so that I can also use it when ,my time comes.

[Wu Ming Jen]

sree,I have none of the above issues. My health is beyond mortal, My finances make my neighbors in a multi million dollar neighborhood look poor, I have an exceptional relationship with all of existence and nonexistence and my emotions turned into pure virtue. Thank you for asking

[sree]

Clinically dead is pretty close to being dead, even if only for a few minutes! Their is an amazing account of a NDE experience of a Russian gentleman who was dead for over three days - spent in a morgue! When his body was being examined in the ortopsy and he sat upright the poor examiner almost fainted! I read about this in the PMH Atwater book recently, good book to read.

My NDE was beautiful.

 

Ok, your near-death experience convinced you that there is a life after death.

 

Its hard to put into words really. What do we actually do here whilst being a human? Do we breathe, pump the blood through our veins, do we beat our hearts, blink our eyes etc etc? No! All our bodily functions are done automatically - the human is amazing and we take it for granted, often giving more importance to material objects like the house or car we own! We neglect our own vehicle! So, onto our thoughts! Were do they come from?! The Quantum Vaccuum maybe! Some of our thoughts appear to be supplied by an external force. I've had thoughts pop into my head and wondered were they'd come from! So just what do 'we' do?!?! Thats why I say 'I am Life unfolding'! Hope that helps!

 

You are asking the same question that I ask myself: "What do we do here in this life as a human being?"

 

Life does unfold as each moment passes. What's the point to this unfolding? Do you feel there is a point to being alive?

 

I am blessed to be loved by an angel! I met my wife after my first two operations, my wife of 12 yrs left me when I returned home after four months in hospital; it was a blessing, it was meant to be! She couldn't cope with my illness, mind you she'd had an affair whilst I was in hospital and so obviously didn't love me anymore. I harbour no ill feeling towards her.

 

I am glad that you have an angel for a wife. Most men are not that lucky and have to live with less than perfect partners. Come to think of it, most people - including ourselves - are not angels and difficult to get along with. This makes our "before-death-experience" all the worse.

 

I have not suffered, this physical body has! Once the collective consciousness of planet Earth has evolved then all suffering will end. We live in a world, a perfect world; because it is Life unfolding. We are all responsible for the state of this world. Life is a divine Mystery, we just need to embrace the divinity and Mystery of her charms. To live from the Heart.

 

Do you work for a living? The world of humans is not that perfect. People make things harder for other people. Co-workers can be nasty and the boss can also make life a misery not to mention the tough working conditions.

 

I am pure energy - pure Love. We are all One. I don't attach any particular label!

 

Ok, but I still would like to know where the "namaste" come from. Let me guess. You are from India, ethnically-speaking.

Edited May 6, 2013 by sree

[ChiDragon]

Being born is only the beginning of death.
Dying is only approaching the end of being born.
Being alive is only an interim of a process between being born and being dead.
Since it is only a process, I will live through it from the beginning to the end of my life.

I am not dead yet, why should I concern about death while I'm still living.
How will I die, how the hell I know....???

When I go, do I care where I'll be after death.....???
No, that is least worry while I am still living. ....!!!

Therefore, the Tao of Dying is to enjoy life while still being alive. Perhaps, prolong life as a Taoist does.

[sree]

sree,I have none of the above issues. My health is beyond mortal, My finances make my neighbors in a multi million dollar neighborhood look poor, I have an exceptional relationship with all of existence and nonexistence and my emotions turned into pure virtue. Thank you for asking

 

Don't thank me yet. This is just the beginning of the interrogation. Before I go on, let me inform you of your Miranda rights.

 

You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say will and can be used as evidence against you.

[rain]

Are you still going to die or was that doctor wrong?

It is not for me to say yet. Or..I could say the doctor was wrong. I am still learning about ethics and trying to make amends. My first intuit reaction was that he was dead wong. (pardon the humour). But better not be too "haughty". I have a lot to learn.

 

 

How are you doing now? Are you bracing yourself for departure from this life? I am good. And bracing myself for both staying and departing. Does it make sense? Much Love

 

Every turn of stress is handled with an even larger amount of Love for this earth.

 

Thank you for asking.

Edited May 6, 2013 by rain

[Wu Ming Jen]

You are so right about that sree. If I say too much you will know who I am and could use what I say against me. Here comes silent mode.

Edited May 6, 2013 by Wu Ming Jen

[DragonsNectar69k]

I need to focus on dying. This is the one thing that is controlling how we live our lives and we are all living it badly because we don't know how to deal with it.

 

It amazes me how the brilliant masters of the universe - like Steve Jobs, Bill Gates, Warren Buffet and Carlos Slim (the richest of them all) - were and are not seeking the solution to this universal human problem. Rats in the maze, all of them. And Steve Jobs had no excuse because he was into India- style spirituality and Zen Buddhism in a more serious way than all of us are into the Dao.

 

I am keeping this thread going because I find your mind amusing and entertaining. I like seeing how it works. I am not too sure if you want to be taken seriously or if you are merely hung up on why we must live to then die... It is a great question to ask, but ONLY you can find the answer.... Since one of your 'masters' is Steve Jobs, who is dead by the way... Maybe you should look into his finally moment of life here on earth...

 

 

 

“Oh wow.” Two words that can have many meanings.

Steve Jobs’s sister Mona Simpson has a moving tribute in the New York Times detailing some of his final moments and his last words.

According to the article, titled “A Sister’s Eulogy for Steve Jobs,” Jobs’s last words were “OH WOW. OH WOW. OH WOW.” (The words were rendered in all capital letters in the essay.)

 

http://blogs.wsj.com/speakeasy/2011/10/31/oh-wow-what-do-steve-jobss-last-words-really-mean/

[sree]

I am keeping this thread going because I find your mind amusing and entertaining. I like seeing how it works. I am not too sure if you want to be taken seriously or if you are merely hung up on why we must live to then die... It is a great question to ask, but ONLY you can find the answer....

 

I am not hung up on why we must live to then die. Death is part of the cycle of life. It is spring now and the buds are all growing and trees are leafing. Every season, including the fall, is beautiful when leaves shrivel and fall off to be carted away and disposed off the way we get rid of dead human bodies.

 

The question I want to ask is how come I am not part of this amazing cycle of life? How come I don't just fade away and drop off like the leaves. Why call 911 and have these fire trucks screaming down the road to cart me off before Lord Yama arrives? And in the emergency room, doctors scramble to keep me alive.

 

There is this pervasive fear of death gripping the heart of everyone. Don't tell me that is not true. Buddhism, Christianity, Islam, Hinduism, etc. have billions of devotees. Do leaves of trees care about the eternal Dao? Do they care about out- of- body experience?

 

Since one of your 'masters' is Steve Jobs, who is dead by the way... Maybe you should look into his finally moment of life here on earth...

 

Steve Jobs was really into spirituality and much more serious than any of us here. We all know he was brilliant and very driven. He couldn't get anywhere and even when he had to get on with life to become a billionaire, he never gave up on his search for the Tao of dying. Too bad he died without finding out.

 

Well, you and I are not dead yet. Do you want to find the Tao of dying or not? Or do you want to go out saying "oh wow"?

Edited May 7, 2013 by sree

[gentlewind]

Ok, your near-death experience convinced you that there is a life after death.

I know death is just a change of costume. I have gone way beyond being convinced.

 

 

You are asking the same question that I ask myself: "What do we do here in this life as a human being?"

 

Life does unfold as each moment passes. What's the point to this unfolding? Do you feel there is a point to being alive?

To experience the 'what isness' of Life. The good, the bad and the ugly - all are 'what is' of Life; argue with 'what is' and you suffer.

 

 

I am glad that you have an angel for a wife. Most men are not that lucky and have to live with less than perfect partners. Come to think of it, most people - including ourselves - are not angels and difficult to get along with. This makes our "before-death-experience" all the worse.

I have encountered some wonderful loving souls who I say are angels, they are living Life as it should be lived. If only a small percentage of the world's population did the same the result would be staggering!

 

 

Do you work for a living? The world of humans is not that perfect. People make things harder for other people. Co-workers can be nasty and the boss can also make life a misery not to mention the tough working conditions.

Everone works in one way or another sree! We encounter situations which we have helped to create, even the negative ones. Its how we deal with what we are faced with. I try to come from a Heart based perspective - I don't always succeed, so I get plenty of practise!!!

 

 

Ok, but I still would like to know where the "namaste" come from. Let me guess. You are from India, ethnically-speaking.

sree, I am merely acknowledging the sacred within when I use the term namaste. I am not Hindu! I am not a label kind of person! I am not a Hindu, at least not in this Life .

[sree]

What is it that the immortal spirit body goives us that we dont have anyway - consciousness is immortal no?

 

I think consciousness is immortal. But as long as I feel that this consciousess comes from my brain, then when the brain dies, I am going to go out too.

[sree]

Let's just say that although I think Ipads are great, I don't have the high opinion of Apple products as you do and leave it at that.

 

I don't own any Apple products. I am not into mania. The only thing I bought were Apple shares which I sold for a tidy profit.

 

According to him the infection had destroyed areas of the brain which he and his doctors know give 0% chance of recovery. By all known neuroscience he should have been a vegetable permanently.

 

I don't have the high opinion of neuroscience as you do. Let's leave it at that.

 

Yes thousands of recorded NDE accounts tell pretty much the same story. Eben's credibility is that he knows his science well and has basically proved by his recovery and experience that they know in neuroscience is basically "kindergarten level" knowledge. That is why he is now studying consciousness with Monroe institute.

 

Eben is not studying consciousness like an explorer who has never seen consciousness before. He is like a boy studying his own mother. No matter how hard the boy tries, he is not going to objective, he is going to see his mother.

 

Yes you can think and can have physical awareness. You can also have almost no physical awareness. Opening the eyes or otherwise physically moving here will tend to wake you in my experience.I will only tell you that many people use this state as a jump off point to OBEs or WILDs. It's basically up to you if you want to explore it, I don't want to give you a bunch of expectations.

 

So, if you don't open your eyes and keep still to avoid waking, you can maintain physical awareness and think while asleep?

 

I have had this experience before and felt fully awake, could see that I was in bed but I could not wake up no matter how hard I tried. Then with a great effort, I forced myself to sit up in bed but couldn't. It was quite frustrating. Then, I started shouting and thrashing about in bed to break that state of immobility. Suddenly, I woke up. It was quite an unnerving experience.

 

Is that what you are talking about?

 

You have me at a disadvantage here. You have tried to limit the things that can be discussed to things that are not opposed to your truth and even if you hadn't I wouldn't want to "prove" you wrong. The truth isn't a matter of debate. You can be proven right and still be wrong.

 

I thought you set the limits about not allowing in the discussion anything that cannot be immediately verified. I thought that was great because once you accept crazy stuff, then the discussion devolve into demented nonsense. I work all the time on real stuff checking out companies I want to invest in and this forces me to cut through the hype no matter how well it is spun by wealth management analysts. In my world, the truth is a matter of debate and there is no two ways about it: you are either right or wrong. As Jesus said, you can either serve God or the Devil, you can't do both.

 

Let's say we are exploring within the limits you have set for us in this thread. I can try to show you things which will help you expand those limits and I will expect you to do the same. Whatever you find is your own discovery.

 

Let's do it. I am all for expanding limits of sanity.

[sree]

Therefore, the Tao of Dying is to enjoy life while still being alive. Perhaps, prolong life as a Taoist does.

 

The Tao of dying is indeed to enjoy life but without getting stuck to the body and having to keep it alive in order to keep on living. For the true Taoist, there is no old age and therefore no hospital, no nursing home, no funeral and no cemetery.

 

Let's find the Tao of dying before it's too late.

[ChiDragon]

The Tao of dying is indeed to enjoy life but without getting stuck to the body and having to keep it alive in order to keep on living. For the true Taoist, there is no old age and therefore no hospital, no nursing home, no funeral and no cemetery.

 

Let's find the Tao of dying before it's too late.

 

Let's be late before one die of exhaustion in looking for it.

Edited May 7, 2013 by ChiDragon

[宁]

for sure there are answers, too many to count, you just need to pick up the one that suits your fancy

if none satisfies you, you either know too little or too much

I like Jack London's version of learning to die, The Jacket (or Secret of the Professor)

No, this thread is not dead because it is dealing with a profound question: the Tao of dying. I like the fact that no one has been able to find the answer.

[sree]

 

Let's be late before one die of exhaustion in looking for it.

 

I would rather die of exhaustion than die in a Chinese coffin.