The Tao of Dying

[ChiDragon]

I would rather die of exhaustion than die in a Chinese coffin.

 

I am sure that you will be laying comfortably on a Western street........ :D

Edited May 7, 2013 by ChiDragon

[DragonsNectar69k]

I think consciousness is immortal. But as long as I feel that this consciousess comes from my brain, then when the brain dies, I am going to go out too.

 

I see. Now riddle me this, how far can you truly see? As far as your arms can reach? Hence my focus on OBE's sir. There is more than meets the eye and those with 'eyes to see and hears to hear' KNOW THIS. Mmmmk?

 

One cannot describe the vision of a bat if they are blind themselves... You see stock investor? You may know where the market is going to day, but I surely do not. I have not cultivated or developed the means to know so... It's that simple. If you want to die and never live again you surely can. If you want to live and be immortal, you surely can as well. So in this case, there is NO death, there is NO life, there is only consciousness. Which is all THAT IS.

 

Also don't argue with me or take my word for it, because that is silly is it not? Taking a stock tip from a reviling investor...

Edited May 7, 2013 by DragonsNectar69k

[sree]

If you want to die and never live again you surely can.

 

Everyone is dying and will never live again.

 

If you want to live and be immortal, you surely can as well.

 

Really? I am listening. Please tell me about immortality.

 

So in this case, there is NO death, there is NO life, there is only consciousness. Which is all THAT IS.

 

Sounds interesting. Please explain to me the nature of this consciousness - my consciousness - that has nothing to do with life or death.

[sree]

for sure there are answers, too many to count, you just need to pick up the one that suits your fancy

if none satisfies you, you either know too little or too much

I like Jack London's version of learning to die, The Jacket (or Secret of the Professor)

 

I have placed an order on Amazon for "The Jacket". I will talk to you after I have watched the movie, ok?

[sree]

sree, I am merely acknowledging the sacred within when I use the term namaste. I am not Hindu! I am not a label kind of person! I am not a Hindu, at least not in this Life .

 

What if there is no next life and your "near-death experience" was a hallucination? I am quite curious as to why we don'r place any importance on this life and is dismissive of "before-death experience". Is it because "before-death experience" is lousy and can be taken for granted? Looking for a greener pasture in the next life may be wishful thinking.

 

What do you say?

Edited May 8, 2013 by sree

[DragonsNectar69k]

Everyone is dying and will never live again.

Says who? You? Right.... No. F*ck you, I can live again if I want to. That's consciousness for you sree. You see?

 

Really? I am listening. Please tell me about immortality.

Quite simple... You imagine it. What you think, you become. Pretty sure you've heard that several times.

 

Sounds interesting. Please explain to me the nature of this consciousness - my consciousness - that has nothing to do with life or death.

It is not your consciousness. The world does not revolve around you, it never has, and it never will. That is TRUTH. But many do not enjoy acknowledging such Truth. It is simpler to ignore said fact and believe that everyone cares and loves us. That one is some how SO important and worthy of everything. Which is far from the Truth. Most people are afraid and look for security. They don't want to die, not because dying is hard or easy, because they are simply afraid of the unknown. Dying can be fun, if one makes it so. Dying means NOTHING. But yet people are afraid of it. Just as you may be afraid of losing all your life savings on the stupid stock markets, it means nothing. Your the one who gives it meaning, when the market is simply reacting to how it has been created and implicated.

[shanlung]

I see. Now riddle me this, how far can you truly see?

 

 

I must commend DragonsNectar for the patience.

But I accept in this world that some not only cannot see, but revel in their blindness.

 

I said also before horses can be led to the water.

But if they do not drink, I take it as their karmic destiny to die of thirst.

I have no regret.

 

 

Idiotic Taoist

[Horus]

Ok, let's say it is a misunderstanding. Eben was in a coma and no brain activity was detected for a week. But his body was not dead; otherwise, rigormortis would have set in and it would have taken Jesus Christ to bring him back to life to tell his story.

 

 

Oh no, Eben is nowhere in the same ballpark as mine. His near-death experience is not different in substance from that of Gentlewind and others. The only difference between him and others is that Eben is a neurosurgeon and, therefore, a credible witness with unimpeachable authority to laymen.

 

Eben belongs to a community of neuro-scientists who preach that the brain is the creator of consciousness which they track on their functional brain imaging machines. And when Eben's near-death experience could not be supported by any record of neuro activity in his brain, he had to make a leap of faith and declare that consciousness can operate independently of the brain. This is his theory that he is selling to the layman through his book "Proof of Heaven". I don't think the scientific community is buying any of it owing to lack of proof that there is Heaven.

 

If you agree with Eben, then you cannot agree with me. I neither buy Eben's proof of Heaven nor the scientific contention that consciousness comes from the brain.

 

 

Eben is just an ordinary guy with medical knowledge and skills. He patches up a structurally injured brain the way the mechanic repairs a car engine. Just because he is a brain mechanic, does not mean he has more credibility than the car mechanic. And that's how I see it.

 

 

Let's say your body is alseep and your mind is awake and there is awareness of mental wakefulness and bodily sleep.

 

How do you know that the body is asleep? Can you see it sleeping? And what is the nature of the wakefulness of the mind? Is it as though you are awake and can think, see, touch, hear, taste and smell?

 

 

You should want to prove me wrong if what I am telling you is not true to you. This is the proper thing to do.

 

Sree asked:"How do you know that the body is asleep? Can you see it sleeping? And what is the nature of the wakefulness of the mind? Is it as though you are awake and can think, see, touch, hear, taste and smell?"

 

Theexperience of mind awake and body asleep makes itself known a few ways...either you feel your subtle fingers, arms, body moving without your physical body moving - you'll often just peel/lift out like a snake shedding its skin.

 

Otherwise you may be very focused and yet start snoring haha - that's fun.

 

Or you might just emerge (from blackness that you suddenly dip into during focus) out of the body - either close to your body, which will usually pull you back in if inexperienced, or some other locale, usually not far from the body.

 

But, simply it is a complete relaxation with complete focus - and you usally won't have much or any sensory (of the senses) information like smell /feel etc - unless you are half way there or very skilled and straddling both dimensions/states of awareness.

[Horus]

You know how to live but do you know how to die?

 

Even though life is a mystery - at least, to those who are still searching - you live it without any doubt as to who you are, with regards to your place in society, and where you are, in terms of geography on this planet.

 

One thing for certain is that your body is going to die and your sojourn in this reality will end. So, how does this fact govern the way you live? Do you live it like a pilot who flies an aeroplane and knows how to land it when the flight is over? Or do you live like a passenger who has no idea how to deal with it?

Sree said: "I like the fact that no one has been able to find the answer" to this question.

 

That is because it is not a question really - it is a choice.

 

We choose one of eather of those options in life:that is the answer.

 

We choose to live in awareness of the metaphysical process, and choose to rise in conscious awareness during and through and after the death process.

 

Or we choose to live unaware of it.

 

Either way, we are still immortal - it is just a question of whether we wan the type of spiritual immortality that gives us the ability to move beyond death consciously with "freedom" or we just cross over into the light/Tao - and look back at it all from the point of creation like we did before we came here, again, this time.

 

It doesn't really matter, either way - we are just light..

[Horus]

I think consciousness is immortal. But as long as I feel that this consciousess comes from my brain, then when the brain dies, I am going to go out too.

 

The reality will not change based on whether you feel that consciousness comes from the brain - that is just a feeling/belief.

 

Yes, you'll go out - and just like you go out when you sleep - you will go out consciously or unconsciously - it is your choice, chosen by your actions in life - ie whether you chose to master consciousness (which is a choice you've probably already made and cant remember)...

[Horus]

Everyone is dying and will never live again.

 

 

Really? I am listening. Please tell me about immortality.

 

 

Sounds interesting. Please explain to me the nature of this consciousness - my consciousness - that has nothing to do with life or death.

There is physical immortality, and there is the spiritual kind. Physical immortality is to prolonge death permenantly - but you usually get sick of that.

Spiritual immortality is just a case of configuring your subtle anatomy such that you can maintain "lifeforce" and have a way to condense energy - which we normally lose as soon as we lose out connection with the physical body - as that vehicle has that ability. All you need do is construct the appropriate subtle anatomy to "catch" life force, and condense energy - easy to say in words - but a more indepth process in actuality....

[宁]

I have placed an order on Amazon for "The Jacket". I will talk to you after I have watched the movie, ok?

 

 

the movie and the book aren't related as far as i know

[zanshin]

http://www.legacy.com/obituaries/nytimes/obituary.aspx?n=antonia-larroux&pid=164596250#fbLoggedOut

[sree]

http://www.legacy.com/obituaries/nytimes/obituary.aspx?n=antonia-larroux&pid=164596250#fbLoggedOut

 

What's the point to your link, farm girl? Is this what you want to share?

 

On a last but serious note, the woman who loved life and taught her children to 'laugh at the days to come' is now safely in the arms of Jesus and dancing at the wedding feast of the Lamb. She will be missed as a mother, friend and grandmother. Anyone wearing black will not be admitted to the memorial. She is not dead. She is alive.

 

Edmond Fahey Funeral Home is in charge of the arrangements.

[sree]

the movie and the book aren't related as far as i know

 

The movie is an adaptation of the novel, naturally. But what is your take from this story? What are the salient points about life, dying and death?

[zanshin]

orange

 

 

Edited April 19, 2020 by zanshin

[sree]

But I accept in this world that some not only cannot see, but revel in their blindness.

 

I said also before horses can be led to the water.

But if they do not drink, I take it as their karmic destiny to die of thirst.

I have no regret.

 

This is the universal lament of individuals who can drink what others cannot drink and see what others cannot see.

 

To those who have drunk the water and can see, let me ask this question. What good has all that drinking and seeing done to mankind that is still gripped with the fear of dying and death? If the prison of this mortal reality still exists for mankind, then those who have escaped this mortal prison don't count. They don't count because their discovery had no universal quality.

 

The individual self is an illusion. Therefore, the karmic freedom of the individual who can drink the water and see is also an illusion. What matters is this consciousness that is still trapped.

Edited May 8, 2013 by sree

[sree]

It made me laugh. Fear life and death or laugh at both.

 

pic from the farm.

 

Nice pic. Looks like a serious farm with lots of heavy machinery. I thought you were just working with your hands on organic produce.

 

What are you growing? Grains? Corn, wheat and stuff like that traded on the Chicago Mercantile Exchange?

[zanshin]

That's where I grew up, yes, corn, soybeans and some wheat, between ethanol and other factors grain farming has become pretty lucrative. Just a backyard garden in the suburbs now. When I was young I thought the country was boring and nothing to do. Now I want another place away from the city, but it will be more little organic hippie retirement farm, not a commercial operation.

[sree]

 

Everyone is dying and will never live again.

Says who? You? Right.... No. F*ck you, I can live again if I want to. That's consciousness for you sree. You see?

 

You can live again if you want to? So dying, to you, is no big deal, right? What then is a good way for you to die? I suppose the best way is a pain-free way like sleeping pills to kill off the body. What do you think?

 

 

Really? I am listening. Please tell me about immortality.

Quite simple... You imagine it. What you think, you become. Pretty sure you've heard that several times.

 

Yes, I heard about this many times from inspirational preachers and motivational self-help gurus. Immortality is a big deal. What about imagining and thinking to become something less phenomenal for a trial test first? Tell me how to become a billionaire? I am not greedy. Just $10 billion cash in my bank account will do for starters. I am not joking. I want to take you seriously. I never fool around with that kind of money.

 

 

Sounds interesting. Please explain to me the nature of this consciousness - my consciousness - that has nothing to do with life or death.

It is not your consciousness.

 

I accept that. I do believe that the individual is an illusion, and the individual consciousness coming out from a particular brain is also illusory. For starters, it is not my brain, it is the human brain.

 

 

The world does not revolve around you, it never has, and it never will. That is TRUTH. But many do not enjoy acknowledging such Truth. It is simpler to ignore said fact and believe that everyone cares and loves us. That one is some how SO important and worthy of everything. Which is far from the Truth.

 

Well, let's be clear about this point. The self as an individual is an illusion. The personality of this individual - who is a Daoist and has this notion that the eternal Dao does give meaning, importance and worthiness to life - is also an illusion. However, this doesn't mean that I, as a fact of life as this existential consciousness, is not important. In this regard, I am very important because somehow I have become a person, an individual inhabiting a physical human body that can suffer disease and death. I need to get out of this horrible spell.

 

 

Most people are afraid and look for security. They don't want to die, not because dying is hard or easy, because they are simply afraid of the unknown.

 

That is the human condition in which I am trapped.

 

This fear of death, at the biological level, is hardwired into the organism. It is a self-protective, survival instinct, that visceral feeling in response to clear and present danger. This is an intelligent response that prevents me from walking off a cliff or causes me to jump away from a truck barrelling down the street.

 

But the fear of death, at the psychological level, is an algorithm embedded in my consciousness as a person. The person is not real. It is an idea that is absolutely realistic. This realism is constantly reinforced by bodily sensations so much so that it has taken on the form of the physical human body.

 

Fear of death is not fear of the unknown. This statement is non-sensical. You can only be scared of something you know. It is impossible to be afraid of something that you don't know. Be careful, DragonsNectar69k. Every evidence of sloppy logic on your part is an indication of a faulty operating system.

 

I think the fear of death is tied to the life of the person, this illusory entity that befuddled the Buddha. The Tao of dying is connected to the freedom from the fear of death. Therefore, the life of the person is the problem. The person is the spirit that has possessed the body and needs to be exorcised. It is one hell of a devil that has caused all human suffering.

Edited May 8, 2013 by sree

[sree]

That's where I grew up, yes, corn, soybeans and some wheat, between ethanol and other factors grain farming has become pretty lucrative.

 

When I bought my dog, I had to drive downstate Illinois to Decatur where that strong smell of Archer Daniels Midland's soybean processing permeated the air. The breeder has her own four-acre farm where she has her dogs in the middle of vast tracts of corporate farmlands growing corn and other stuff. The place, in the middle of nowhere, had a wonderful feel but I did wonder if life there could be good on account of the massive crop-dusting of pesticides and insecticides in the area.

 

Did that bother you growing up on the farm?

 

Just a backyard garden in the suburbs now. When I was young I thought the country was boring and nothing to do. Now I want another place away from the city, but it will be more little organic hippie retirement farm, not a commercial operation.

 

Hippie retirement farm is good. A place in the country is the dream of all city-dwellers. What about safety? Are you not afraid to live on a farm? Have you seen the movie "Deliverance"? I sure hate to have to keep guns and shoot mountain men barging in and knocking down the front door in the midst of dinner.

[sree]

Dying can be fun, if one makes it so. Dying means NOTHING. But yet people are afraid of it.

 

Dying of what? The body? Forget the body. It has nothing to do with you or me. It has its own way of dying naturally if we let it and not mess around with it. So, tell me how dying can be fun. Tell me how killing off the person, this psychological entity, this devil, can be fun.

 

Just as you may be afraid of losing all your life savings on the stupid stock markets, it means nothing. Your the one who gives it meaning, when the market is simply reacting to how it has been created and implicated.

 

Well, the realness of money is tied to the realness of the person. I need money not just for food, clothing, and shelter but also to get away from devils cramping my style.

 

Money is the most important thing to me, next to air, in this life. It gives me a life fit for an Emperor. It makes people smile when they pick up my bags, drive me to airports, serve me my drinks and meals, massage my feet, polish my teeth....I think I live better than King Wen and the Duke of Chou.

[sree]

Sree asked:"How do you know that the body is asleep? Can you see it sleeping? And what is the nature of the wakefulness of the mind? Is it as though you are awake and can think, see, touch, hear, taste and smell?"

 

Theexperience of mind awake and body asleep makes itself known a few ways...either you feel your subtle fingers, arms, body moving without your physical body moving - you'll often just peel/lift out like a snake shedding its skin.

 

Otherwise you may be very focused and yet start snoring haha - that's fun.

 

Or you might just emerge (from blackness that you suddenly dip into during focus) out of the body - either close to your body, which will usually pull you back in if inexperienced, or some other locale, usually not far from the body.

 

But, simply it is a complete relaxation with complete focus - and you usally won't have much or any sensory (of the senses) information like smell /feel etc - unless you are half way there or very skilled and straddling both dimensions/states of awareness.

 

What's the point to this, Horus? Does it have any useful practical purpose?

[sree]

Sree said: "I like the fact that no one has been able to find the answer" to this question.

 

That is because it is not a question really - it is a choice.

 

We choose one of eather of those options in life:that is the answer.

 

We choose to live in awareness of the metaphysical process, and choose to rise in conscious awareness during and through and after the death process.

 

Or we choose to live unaware of it.

 

Either way, we are still immortal - it is just a question of whether we wan the type of spiritual immortality that gives us the ability to move beyond death consciously with "freedom" or we just cross over into the light/Tao - and look back at it all from the point of creation like we did before we came here, again, this time.

 

It doesn't really matter, either way - we are just light..

 

I don't think so.

 

Firstly, it's not a matter of choice with regard to figuring out the truth about life; and, secondly, it does matter when we live out a life of pointless pain.

 

Thankfully, my life is not painful but the lives of most people are, and people have an incredible capacity for pain. I am like a guy on a sinking Titanic with 7 billion passengers. Half of them are drowning underwater and another 25% at the water line. This leaves 25% who know they are going to drown sooner or later. No one knows how to get off the ship. Getting off the ship does matter to me even if it does not matter to you.

 

Then, there is that question about a matter of choice with regard to finding out why the ship is sinking and how come we are trapped in it. No one chooses to be a bozo. Bozos are born and not made. And bozos can never find out why the ship is sinking and why they are trapped in it. In fact, bozos cannot even see that the ship is sinking. They think the chaos of a sinking ship is human nature and drowning is a part of life. Only bozos practise semen retention and do taichi on a sinking ship. Other bozos think they can escape drowning by sneaking out of their bodies.

[zanshin]

October 

Edited April 19, 2020 by zanshin