The Tao of Dying

[DragonsNectar69k]

I can relate with that. I also did not lose consciousness. It was not in Utah while out skiing. I was in Ulsan, Korea, while out drinking soju in a tented sidewalk snack bar with a buddy and the merriment got in over our heads. On the walk home, we slipped on the icy sidewalk and I fell flat on my back hitting the back of my head on the floor. So lethal was the soju that I didn't feel a thing. We just lay there laughing in minus 20 degrees winter. It would have been a wonderful way to die.

 

 

Do you think that solitary state has to do with a wrong way of dying? We never go until we have to be executed and evicted from the body. The unwillingness to go brings a pall on the situation and nobody wants to be part of an unhappy event. Why are we afraid to depart and give up the body?

 

Wonderful as it is, life has no purpose. The dragonfly on a stalk of grass at the water's edge has no purpose. So, why that unwillingness to let go?

 

Your mind is moving very close to the realm of 'nothingness', which is not a realm at all, nor a state of mind. The gateless gate. hahahaha. Have fun. Don't kill yourself also, it gets better.

 

Interesting monk in this song as well... You MIGHT enjoy the dialogue...

 

Edited May 13, 2013 by DragonsNectar69k

[Wu Ming Jen]

This is Mr Wu, I wrote the last post for you to have fun with sree. I loaded it with lots of ammunition for you to use (except the first line).

 

Self consciousness once you get it even Adam and Eve will put clothes on. Seems like a mental disorder to me.

 

Mind on the drug of knowledge. Don't do drugs

 

Craving what happens when we get rid of that?

 

If you want to know the tao of dying there might be simply nothing to "know".

 

Its still fun to speculate and argue about. How many religions do we have now that speculates about the afterlife.We have so many religions because everyone can not agree on things that are not true. Taoism is the exception when it comes to speculation Its focus is on direct experience and the transmission beyond words, to others it could be something completely different.

 

This is a great meditation if you are open to it, Investigate uncontrived

Edited May 13, 2013 by Wu Ming Jen

[Wu Ming Jen]

This is Mr Wu, I wrote the last post for you to have fun with sree. I loaded it with lots of ammunition for you to use (except the first line).

 

Self consciousness once you get it even Adam and Eve will put clothes on. Seems like a mental disorder to me.

 

Mind on the drug of knowledge. Don't do drugs

 

Craving what happens when we get rid of that?

 

If you want to know the tao of dying there might be simply nothing to "know".

 

Its still fun to speculate and argue about. How many religions do we have now that speculates about the afterlife.We have so many religions because everyone can not agree on things that are not true. Taoism is the exception when it comes to speculation Its focus is on direct experience and the transmission beyond words, to others it could be something completely different.

 

This is a great meditation if you are open to it, Investigate uncontrived

Who in their right mind writes this stuff???

[sree]

Your mind is moving very close to the realm of 'nothingness', which is not a realm at all, nor a state of mind. The gateless gate. hahahaha. Have fun. Don't kill yourself also, it gets better.

 

Interesting monk in this song as well... You MIGHT enjoy the dialogue...

 

The monk said that there is no death. That may be true but this is a truth that has to be discovered before I die. Otherwise, I am going to be fearful like a convict being dragged to the execution chamber screaming "I don't want to die!" By the time, I am strapped down in the electric chair, I would have given up the struggle. By then, I would not give a damn because I would have died a thousand deaths. One more would not make a difference.

 

Do you get my point? I need to know now, not because that monk said so or you think so; I need to know, and that knowing has to be reflected in the way I live now. So, how does a person live when he knows for real that there is no death, that death is not a part of life. Sure, the body will die. I am not disputing that. But how do I live if I know that death is a fearsome belief of those who are damned by this superstition? Would I still behave like everybody else unwilling to give up the body even though it is well past its prime - old and disintegrating with disease - pumping it with drugs to dull the pain? How did that monk die? He sounded old and his voice was breaking up.

 

Action speak louder than words, doesn't it? If death doesn't exist for me, I should be able to junk the body and lay it to rest the way I change out my sports car without any qualm, trading it in for a new model to stay forever young. To me, ok ? (as Bruce Lee would say)...to me, that would be the Tao of dying.

Edited May 13, 2013 by sree

[sree]

This is Mr Wu, I wrote the last post for you to have fun with sree. I loaded it with lots of ammunition for you to use (except the first line).

 

Self consciousness once you get it even Adam and Eve will put clothes on. Seems like a mental disorder to me.

 

Not really, Self-consciousness is not a mental disorder. Wearing clothes, something that you and I do, is a peculiar cultural behavior Hindus put a dot on their foreheads. Is that a mental disorder or a peculiar cultural behavior. Is homosexuality a mental disorder or peculiar cultural behavior?

[sree]

Who in their right mind writes this stuff???

 

People who are into spiritualism, in the right mind, would write this stuff.

People who are an economically relevant part of society, in their right mind, would not write this stuff.

[Wu Ming Jen]

 

People who are into spiritualism, in the right mind, would write this stuff.

People who are an economically relevant part of society, in their right mind, would not write this stuff.

I am both Edited May 13, 2013 by Wu Ming Jen

[Wu Ming Jen]

 

Not really, Self-consciousness is not a mental disorder. Wearing clothes, something that you and I do, is a peculiar cultural behavior Hindus put a dot on their foreheads. Is that a mental disorder or a peculiar cultural behavior. Is homosexuality a mental disorder or peculiar cultural behavior?

you're missing the point and not seeing the humor. I think all couples should be gay (happy) on a side note.

You seem to have great self love are you distressed you will lose this self in death?

You seem to be very level headed and in a good situation does this create a fear of loss? I See loss and gain as the same I see birth and death as the same I use one to know the other.

 

Self discovery, Going into the tiger's cave takes courage, having others do it for you is the act of a coward.

Edited May 13, 2013 by Wu Ming Jen

[sree]

you're missing the point and not seeing the humor. I think all couples should be gay (happy) on a side note.

You seem to have great self love are you distressed you will lose this self in death?

You seem to be very level headed and in a good situation does this create a fear of loss? I See loss and gain as the same I see birth and death as the same I use one to know the other.

 

Self discovery, Going into the tiger's cave takes courage, having others do it for you is the act of a coward.

 

Why do you think I am not doing it for myself? I started this thread because no one else has the courage to deal with the question of death and dying. Others would rather deal with harmless Taoist kittens but not tigers. You know why?

 

I don't know how to deal with this tiger but I am not running away. Yes, it is out of self love that I am dealing with the tiger. If I don't face it, I am going to be torn to pieces and chewed up by this beast of death. Do you know how to deal with this tiger? I am not asking you to show me. I am wondering if you have the guts to go into the cave with me. Don't worry, I will go in first. If I get killed, will you promise to keep fighting and don't run for your life?

[Wu Ming Jen]

I will definitely go into the cave and face the tiger with you. My skill with Tiger Taming Boxing needs to be kept up to speed. I did think you were trying to save humanity (and yourself)contemplating the best way to deal with death,a battle well worth fighting for.

[zanshin]

I can relate with that. I also did not lose consciousness. It was not in Utah while out skiing. I was in Ulsan, Korea, while out drinking soju in a tented sidewalk snack bar with a buddy and the merriment got in over our heads. On the walk home, we slipped on the icy sidewalk and I fell flat on my back hitting the back of my head on the floor. So lethal was the soju that I didn't feel a thing. We just lay there laughing in minus 20 degrees winter. It would have been a wonderful way to die.

 

 

Do you think that solitary state has to do with a wrong way of dying? We never go until we have to be executed and evicted from the body. The unwillingness to go brings a pall on the situation and nobody wants to be part of an unhappy event. Why are we afraid to depart and give up the body?

 

Wonderful as it is, life has no purpose. The dragonfly on a stalk of grass at the water's edge has no purpose. So, why that unwillingness to let go?

 

If I was diagnosed with encroaching dementia or a painful terminal disease, I might go for a ski way off trail with flask of soju program. It might be scary to go alone, but that is how it would probably have to be or there would be arguing and crying and trying to get me rescued. Ross is right about one thing, and that is that sometimes family and friends really can add stress and difficulty with clinging and grieving when a dying person is ready to go. I talked to woman who had a true near death experience. She had late stage MS and her body was not working well at all anymore. She had chest pain, so her mom took her to the hospital even though she really wanted to stay home. At the hospital, she coded, mom was screaming, staff rushing to resuscitate her. Her heart stopped at least couple minutes, she felt herself floating out of her body, happy and full of joy going toward the light, it was all beautiful. Then, she heard her mom crying, praying and saying she couldn't let her go (mom was in a waiting room at this time so she couldn't physically hear this and some of it wasn't out loud anyway). But, that is what seemed to suck her back into her body, they started her heart again. Finally, when she woke up she was pretty mad at her mom about the whole thing and even more ready to go.

[sree]

I will definitely go into the cave and face the tiger with you. My skill with Tiger Taming Boxing needs to be kept up to speed. I did think you were trying to save humanity (and yourself)contemplating the best way to deal with death,a battle well worth fighting for.

 

 

Ok, let's do it. The first step in this venture is to prepare for defeat in this battle with the tiger. There is no guarantee that we will succeed. This does not mean that we give up. The Tao Te Ching teaches that the way to victory is through the horror of defeat.

 

Sun Tsu said that we must know the enemy. What is the nature of this enemy, this tiger we are talking about? Is this not the fear of death? To know the enemy is not to run away; it is to run towards, immerse ourselves in this fear and grapple with the tiger. This means we must prepare for death, not tomorrow when the body is old and worn but right now when the body is fit and healthy.

 

What do you say? Is your tiger-boxing taichi up to speed?

Edited May 14, 2013 by sree

[sree]

If I was diagnosed with encroaching dementia or a painful terminal disease, I might go for a ski way off trail with flask of soju program. It might be scary to go alone, but that is how it would probably have to be or there would be arguing and crying and trying to get me rescued.

 

Scary to go alone. That says everything. This is the reason why we push death off till the last moment and make dying so horrible. Why can't we have that "Thelma & Louise" moment, step on the gas and go over the cliff when the doctor tells us that we need a new knee?

 

Ross is right about one thing, and that is that sometimes family and friends really can add stress and difficulty with clinging and grieving when a dying person is ready to go. I talked to woman who had a true near death experience. She had late stage MS and her body was not working well at all anymore. She had chest pain, so her mom took her to the hospital even though she really wanted to stay home. At the hospital, she coded, mom was screaming, staff rushing to resuscitate her. Her heart stopped at least couple minutes, she felt herself floating out of her body, happy and full of joy going toward the light, it was all beautiful. Then, she heard her mom crying, praying and saying she couldn't let her go (mom was in a waiting room at this time so she couldn't physically hear this and some of it wasn't out loud anyway). But, that is what seemed to suck her back into her body, they started her heart again. Finally, when she woke up she was pretty mad at her mom about the whole thing and even more ready to go.

 

Working with the old and the sick must have giving you a close-up view of bad situations. It's not just the physical pain. There is also the emotional anguish and the financial anxiety. Medical expenses is like ransom money paid to keep people alive. What's the point to coming home in a stretcher with $100,000 bill to pay?

 

You sound like a sane person. Can you tell me what's wrong with us?

[zanshin]

Scary to go alone. That says everything. This is the reason why we push death off till the last moment and make dying so horrible. Why can't we have that "Thelma & Louise" moment, step on the gas and go over the cliff when the doctor tells us that we need a new knee?

 

 

Working with the old and the sick must have giving you a close-up view of bad situations. It's not just the physical pain. There is also the emotional anguish and the financial anxiety. Medical expenses is like ransom money paid to keep people alive. What's the point to coming home in a stretcher with $100,000 bill to pay?

 

You sound like a sane person. Can you tell me what's wrong with us?

 

I don't fully understand what is wrong with us, but I'm sure that the way to make it even worse is to add more bureaucracy and base things on formulas that turn people into numbers.

[xor]

...

Edited May 22, 2013 by Guest

[gentlewind]

When my Dad was nearing the end of his journey due to triple cancer he asked me what I thought happens when you die.

 

Based on my own Near Death Experience and seeing my Gran months after she'd left her physical body, I told him that we are met by those whom we loved in this life and previous lives. In my Dad's case I told him his Dad would be waiting for him, as my Dad idolised his father whom I never met.

 

My Mum was too afraid to talk about death and always told me to 'shut up' whenever I brought the subject up! But when she was close to her exit we had a similar conversation!

 

I speak openly with my daughter about death and am trying to help her overcome her fear of death! I have told her about my NDE and this has helped. I am ready to leave this world and return Home because it is created from Pure Love, obviously I hope I'm around for a few more years!

 

When my time comes I'm going to spiritually bungy jumping Home!

 

I'm going to research what Rudolf Steiner says about death and the transition, also Elizabeth Kubler Ross. All I can say is that I am mentally and spiritually prepared for Home Time!

 

Namaste,

 

gentlewind

[sree]

So... sree's Tao of Dying is not to hold on to the body/acquired spirit and not being a burden to others(or a cashcow to some western med companies) by holding on to a wrecked body. I can respect that.

 

 

Holding on out of fear, my friend, is like clinging on desperately to the handrails on a flight of stairs due to a fear of heights.

 

The Tao of dying is living in freedom from fear. Naturally, such a way of living protects you from being exploited and preserves your dignity that comes with self-sufficiency. 含德之厚 says the Tao Te Ching in Chapter 55. This Chinese meaning is not captured in any western translation.

 

It takes cojones to 含德 and no beast dares harm you. Even the Grim Reaper would give you a wide berth.

Edited May 14, 2013 by sree

[sree]

When my Dad was nearing the end of his journey due to triple cancer he asked me what I thought happens when you die.

 

Based on my own Near Death Experience and seeing my Gran months after she'd left her physical body, I told him that we are met by those whom we loved in this life and previous lives. In my Dad's case I told him his Dad would be waiting for him, as my Dad idolised his father whom I never met.

 

My Mum was too afraid to talk about death and always told me to 'shut up' whenever I brought the subject up! But when she was close to her exit we had a similar conversation!

 

I speak openly with my daughter about death and am trying to help her overcome her fear of death! I have told her about my NDE and this has helped. I am ready to leave this world and return Home because it is created from Pure Love, obviously I hope I'm around for a few more years!

 

When my time comes I'm going to spiritually bungy jumping Home!

 

I'm going to research what Rudolf Steiner says about death and the transition, also Elizabeth Kubler Ross. All I can say is that I am mentally and spiritually prepared for Home Time!

 

Namaste,

 

gentlewind

 

These are comforting words, even fighting words, to drum up courage to face death. I am not questioning the veracity of your near-death experience. I am quite convinced that near-death experiences are very real, as real as experiences of people on LSD. Such experiences are not like those we go through in our daily lives tending to practical matters.

 

Dream states - during sleep - are real too. The reason why we put faith in near-death experiences and regard them as authentic evidence of an afterlife is to give continuity to ourselves when the body dies. This boils down to a need to go on living - not as before but in better conditions - after the death of the body.

Edited May 14, 2013 by sree

[gentlewind]

sree, I see them as more than mere words of comfort, and are based on my Gran visiting me a few months after her departure from the physical realm and my NDE; then later on I encountered(1983)an off planet being, which endorsed my knowing of the eternalness of our being.

 

I have encountered plenty of wonderful strangeness in my 50 odd(some very odd indeed) years and look forward to more wacky strangeness after leaving this physical madhouse!

 

Namaste,

 

gentlewind

[sree]

I don't fully understand what is wrong with us, but I'm sure that the way to make it even worse is to add more bureaucracy and base things on formulas that turn people into numbers.

 

 

It is we who create the national health system to pander to our fear of incapacity and death. And it is we who create the health insurance and drug industries to exploit the opportunities to keep us going as long as we want on pain-killers, prosthectics, wheelchairs, transplants, and life-support machines. Have you noticed that, in nature, animals live without hospitals and health insurance? In that sense, animals, other than humans, are true Daoists.

 

Talking about what's wrong with us, I just read that Angeline Jolie had a double mastectomy. She had both breasts removed because she reckoned she had an 87% chance of getting breasts cancer as that disease ran in her family. I don't think this is something that fits in with the Tao of dying. Naturally, women in her situation don't want to take the chance and prefer to cut those damn things out before they show the first trace of cancer for fear of cancer cells spreading elsewhere.

 

I guess it's a case of damned if you do it too late and damned if you do it too early. What do you say?

Edited May 14, 2013 by sree

[sree]

sree, I see them as more than mere words of comfort, and are based on my Gran visiting me a few months after her departure from the physical realm and my NDE; then later on I encountered(1983)an off planet being, which endorsed my knowing of the eternalness of our being.

 

I have encountered plenty of wonderful strangeness in my 50 odd(some very odd indeed) years and look forward to more wacky strangeness after leaving this physical madhouse!

 

Namaste,

 

gentlewind

 

You are opening a can of worms here, figuratively-speaking. Are you now citing encounters of a third kind to back up your "near-death experience" claim of an afterlife?

 

Let's leave Grandma be, bless her soul. I want to know more about that off planet being back in 1983. What did it look like?

[xor]

...

Edited May 22, 2013 by Guest

[xor]

...

Edited May 22, 2013 by Guest

[manitou]

"It is a good day to Die"

 

- Geronimo -

 

What a mindset this is. To embrace death as a friend, without fear. This warrior lives within us all, if we just uncover him.

[sree]

"It is a good day to Die"

 

- Geronimo -

 

What a mindset this is. To embrace death as a friend, without fear. This warrior lives within us all, if we just uncover him.

 

 

Facing death without squirming seems to be a universal cultural value. Fear is not the main thing that bothers me; and so, coming on as a warrior is not my schtick. For me, the over-riding disturbing feeling is curiosity. I need to know what is the purpose to being alive. I've got to know before I die

 

So, please try and understand that the Tao of dying is not about finding the courage to face death. It is the search for meaning in our foolish way of life. Think of life as a test for finding out what it is about. Coming on macho when you get a zero for the test is to be left behind. And I am for no child left behind.

Edited May 14, 2013 by sree