The Tao of Dying

[hydrogen]

gentlewind, Thank you for talking to sree. You seem to have infinite patience.

 

Initially I was dying to see this thread end. Now it got interesting.

[gentlewind]

gentlewind, Thank you for talking to sree. You seem to have infinite patience.

 

Initially I was dying to see this thread end. Now it got interesting.

hydrogen, I have a great Teacher !!! One of the benefits of having an S Pouch !!!

 

Namaste,

 

gentlewind

[三江源]

.

Edited April 4, 2015 by 三江源

[sree]

My NDE tells me otherwise. Death is a transition. Our consciousness leaves the physical vehicle which then returns to the ground. When you sleep and you dream - everything you experience is created by you. We are not the body.

 

So, you believe that the consciousness leaves the body which dies. Ok, I am watching your consciousness leaving the body the way I watch a magician performing his trick.

 

The consciousness returns Home sree. We are not the body. We are not the mind, thoughts, feelings or emotions. The mind is our keyboard - so to speak. The 'person' is the mind, an Illusion. Their is no 'person'.

 

Slowly, my friend. Let's follow your reasoning carefully. The consciousness is not the body and not the mind. It is not the thoughts, the feelings and emotions. So, what the f**ck is it?

 

How do you know its not answered! Each individual's Life is unique, their equation is unique. The Source answers all 'prayers' as Life unfolds in its Mysterious Way.

 

How do I know the prayer of a painless, peaceful death is not answered? Ask the six million Jews who perished by machine gunfire and gassing in the Second World War. Ask the Cambodians who perished in the killing fields. Ask the Chinese who were slaughtered in Nanking, and that poor guy who was hacked to death in Woolwich. Their consciousness have all gone Home like your dad's, right? Talk to them. All these are just the tip of the iceberg of painful human deaths. I have not even mentioned painful animals deaths at the hands of man - those tens of millions of animals slaughtered every goddam day.

 

You know what? You are quite a self-centered guy lost in your own little world.

 

We are not as wise as we would like to beLIEve.

Everything is perfect because 'it is' what is. Reality.

 

Everything is perfect? This horrible human specie you have been railing about is perfect?

 

Lying is bad because it is avoiding the truth. Of course I've lied, everyone probably has. We even have a good lie called a 'white lie'. Cute aren't we !

 

Yes, very cute. It's about time we all stop lying and this is what I am trying to tell you. It's better to face the truth head on if we are caught in the grasp of the Grim Reaper. And for guys like me, who are not caught yet, we need to seek the truth of the Buddha who found the deathless state.

 

Animals live in a tougher environment than us soft humans sree, they have camouflage for a reason !

 

I don't agree. Animals live a much better life. I have spent days even months watching fish in the middle of the Atlantic and Pacific Oceans on my sailboat in dead calm waters. I have spent hours and weeks among grazing animals in the wilds of Africa and Asia. Those were the only peaceful times of my life. Your perception of animal life is the mindset of people programmed by watching TV channels of Animal Planet and National Geographic.

 

Soldiers do too - which tells you a lot about the true nature of war. By the way sree, I'm ex-military. As were my Dad and brothers. I speak from experience. War is for fools. Soldiers are not heroes. See Dr Kissinger for viewpoint on soldiers, not very nice. But 'they' have us policing ourselves and killing people we don't even know !

 

I am sorry to learn about your karma of the soldier. In life, there is the ruling class and the underclass that bears the brunt of war and politics. The Tao of dying frees us from that karma.

 

The dalai lama and the pope just promote the propaganda of their brand of religion - a far cry from the Truth. I have no time for either.

 

For the record, both Pope Francis and Tenzin Gyatso (14th Dalai Lama) are not village idiots. The former was a Jesuit and the latter has a doctorate in Buddhist Philosophy. In other words, they both can reason and think as proficiently as celebrated professors at the top universities in the world. I applaud you for having a high self-esteem - a good trait - but let's not be arrogant.

 

My Journey with Cancer is the Truth, not as I saw it sree but as I lived it. And I even have witnesses ! Medical papers too, even photographs of my tumors and polyps. Gruesome my wife calls them, art is what I say ! Want to see my stomach and the scars from surgery ? The peculiar 'tucked' in 4 inch 'hole' ? Or spend 5 hours each night with me as I empty my S Pouch. And sree I wake up each day knowing I may have another battle on my hands, but I adore Life and Dance(for you cat!), sing and laugh at every opportunity.

 

Each one of us live his or her own reality. You have yours and I have mine. A butterfly lives its reality and a fish lives its reality. No two realities are the same. Therefore, the butterfly's Tao of dying is not the fish's Tao of dying. Consequently, your Tao of dying for a man with an S pouch is not the same as my Tao of dying for a man in perfect health. Am I correct?

Edited May 30, 2013 by sree

[Stosh]

"But we can still love and laugh and dance, and enjoy the birds singing."

 

"The way Emperor Nero fiddled and sang while Rome burned?"

 

I have spent days even months watching fish in the middle of the Atlantic and Pacific Oceans on my sailboat in dead calm waters. I have spent hours and weeks among grazing animals in the wilds of Africa and Asia. Those were the only peaceful times of my life.

 

You are quite a self-centered guy lost in your own little world.

 

Each one of us live his or her own reality. You have yours and I have mine.

 

When you can rid the text of the contradictions , I might then know what it is you really do think.

You have some really delightful thoughts mixed in there Sree.

[三江源]

.

Edited April 4, 2015 by 三江源

[sree]

When you can rid the text of the contradictions , I might then know what it is you really do think.

You have some really delightful thoughts mixed in there Sree.

 

You have lifted things I said out of their respective contexts and lumped them together to make your case. Please don't do that. There is no need to prove me wrong in my debate with Gentlewind.

 

I am trying to disentangle my Tao of dying from Gentlewind's convictions about the right way to deal with life when faced with circumstances such as his. People in his situation (if you are one) should listen to him because what I have to say about my Tao of dying is not applicable.

 

Guys who should take an interest in what I have to say are not on death row and want to be part of a prison break. Not all convicts want to get out and most don't care to. Only those who don't belong in prison do. Only one got out in Shawshank Redemption, the movie.

[hydrogen]

Guys who should take an interest in what I have to say are not on death row and want to be part of a prison break. Not all convicts want to get out and most don't care to. Only those who don't belong in prison do. Only one got out in Shawshank Redemption, the movie.

 

Have you seen "the Life of Pi"? by Lee?

 

I believe the Shawshank Redemption was based on a book by Steven King, and which was based on a true life story.

[Stosh]

You have lifted things I said out of their respective contexts and lumped them together to make your case. Please don't do that. There is no need to prove me wrong in my debate with Gentlewind.

 

I am trying to disentangle my Tao of dying from Gentlewind's convictions about the right way to deal with life when faced with circumstances such as his. People in his situation (if you are one) should listen to him because what I have to say about my Tao of dying is not applicable.

 

Guys who should take an interest in what I have to say are not on death row and want to be part of a prison break. Not all convicts want to get out and most don't care to. Only those who don't belong in prison do. Only one got out in Shawshank Redemption, the movie.

Your thoughts may be very consistent to you , and point you in a clear unambiguous direction spiritually ,, but the text looks contradictory and I cant get a good read on where it leads. It seems like you are on both sides of the fence , that you have so many good and sound ideas that a particular vector isnt evident TO ME. The quotes are there for you to possibly 'get' what type of things it is ,that I am seeing ,, its not about gentlewind and 'taking sides' and to be honest its not exactly about dying unless that is central to you.

[sree]

Correct on the subjective level of personal experience, if you dont widen your consciousness to include others.

 

Well, that depends on your definition of "personal". I am not a sree person. I am a human person, the kind that inhabits all human bodies. All people who are physically healthy, emotionally stable and mentally unimpaired are included in my reality and shares my consciousness. We move as one, sensing the same danger and seeking the same way out like a shoal of fish dashing from Lord Yama's net.

 

You asked earlier 'what is 'we'?" and that is a key part of this tao isnt it. To what extent is there a 'we'?

 

I can't find this quote ("what is we") of mine you refer to and don't know the context. At any rate, this Tao of dying is part of the question "What am I?" To this day, I am still confronted with this question.

 

I can state with confidence that I exist and I don't mean the person, Sree, I mean this consciousness, this awareness of existence, this ability to see and touch and taste and smell and hear and reflectively think. I don't accept that there is more than one of "me" (this human consciousness). But there are many different situations in which I live this reality (as other human persons in other life experiences). I could venture further and consider extending "me" to include other animals but I am digressing.

[gentlewind]

So, you believe that the consciousness leaves the body which dies. Ok, I am watching your consciousness leaving the body the way I watch a magician performing his trick.

No trickery required. Just life unfolding furthering the adventures of 'what is'. We are all waves of an Infinite Ocean, all connected, yet all having our own unique experiences. At death the consciousness bids farewell to physical realms and returns Home, for some their may be a few diversions on the Way Home. Some 'spirit's' are still attached to the physical realm and refuse to acknowledge their 'death', hence the term 'earthbound'. I'd like to recommend a book which I found illuminating as well as endorsing what I now know - 'The Boy Who Saw True',

 

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Boy-Who-Saw-True-Time-Honoured/dp/1844131505/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1369927631&sr=1-1&keywords=the+boy+who+saw+true

Slowly, my friend. Let's follow your reasoning carefully. The consciousness is not the body and not the mind. It is not the thoughts, the feelings and emotions. So, what the f**ck is it?

Consciousness is Infinite and Eternal. A Mysterious and Beautiful Energy.

How do I know the prayer of a painless, peaceful death is not answered? Ask the six million Jews who perished by machine gunfire and gassing in the Second World War. Ask the Cambodians who perished in the killing fields. Ask the Chinese who were slaughtered in Nanking, and that poor guy who was hacked to death in Woolwich. Their consciousness have all gone Home like your dad's, right? Talk to them. All these are just the tip of the iceberg of painful human deaths. I have not even mentioned painful animals deaths at the hands of man - those tens of millions of animals slaughtered every goddam day.

Life is perfect in whatever way it unfolds because we are Life Unfolding. Reality cannot be argued with. The horrors that happen on a daily basis are the perfect unfolding of Life, I am not saying that the deaths and suffering are perfect in the sense of the word; but collectively we are the one's responsible for these crimes against humanity, we continue to allow them to happen. We are the scriptwriters sree.

As for 'prayers', I have seen them answered, and although I don't pray in the conventional way I too have been the benefactor of prayer being answered. I have friends who have also benefited when their 'prayers' have been answered.

You know what? You are quite a self-centered guy lost in your own little world.

I would hope so ! But not self centered in the 'way' you mean sree. Lost in a little world - nonsense sree, its INFINITE my friend, nothing small about my world. Lost. Yes, for a good number of years I was. However I'm not as lost as I once was.

 

I am in a good place when I am centered, when I am pure Consciousness. That is a good place to be.

Everything is perfect? This horrible human specie you have been railing about is perfect?

I have answered this above. I am a commentator on current events sree, reporting what is. And as its Life Unfolding through our collective experiences then yes, it is Perfect.

Yes, very cute. It's about time we all stop lying and this is what I am trying to tell you. It's better to face the truth head on if we are caught in the grasp of the Grim Reaper. And for guys like me, who are not caught yet, we need to seek the truth of the Buddha who found the deathless state.

We are All on death row sree. Some of us meet the executioner before others do, but why worry my friend, it is merely a transition. I look forward to my bungy jump Home ! Seeking is moving further away from the Truth which is closer than a heart beat.

I don't agree. Animals live a much better life. I have spent days even months watching fish in the middle of the Atlantic and Pacific Oceans on my sailboat in dead calm waters. I have spent hours and weeks among grazing animals in the wilds of Africa and Asia. Those were the only peaceful times of my life. Your perception of animal life is the mindset of people programmed by watching TV channels of Animal Planet and National Geographic.

Tell that to a baby deer being chased and then eaten by a ferocious tiger. Tell that to a fish in the mouth of a shark. Tell that to an elephant being hunted by men with rifles. Tell that to a whale being pursued and then harpooned by a whaling boat. Tell that to the millions of laboratory animals suffering appalling treatment and leading to death. My perception - sree, you have no idea of 'my perception'; and it isn't influenced by what is shown on the Idiot Box.

I am sorry to learn about your karma of the soldier. In life, there is the ruling class and the underclass that bears the brunt of war and politics. The Tao of dying frees us from that karma.

Don't want you being sorry sree. I was a soldier, it was another lesson.

For the record, both Pope Francis and Tenzin Gyatso (14th Dalai Lama) are not village idiots. The former was a Jesuit and the latter has a doctorate in Buddhist Philosophy. In other words, they both can reason and think as proficiently as celebrated professors at the top universities in the world. I applaud you for having a high self-esteem - a good trait - but let's not be arrogant.

For the record sree - I did not say either were village idiots. Here is what I wrote:-

 

The dalai lama and the pope just promote the propaganda of their brand of religion - a far cry from the Truth. I have no time for either.

 

Each one of us live his or her own reality. You have yours and I have mine. A butterfly lives its reality and a fish lives its reality. No two realities are the same. Therefore, the butterfly's Tao of dying is not the fish's Tao of dying. Consequently, your Tao of dying for a man with an S pouch is not the same as my Tao of dying for a man in perfect health. Am I correct?

Their is no death. Their is a transition, that is all. We are All One.

 

Namaste,

 

gentlewind

[sree]

Have you seen "the Life of Pi"? by Lee?

 

No, I have not.

 

I believe the Shawshank Redemption was based on a book by Steven King, and which was based on a true life story.

 

Well, that was one hell of a movie, a well-told story. The guy did try to fit in despite the horrors of prison life. And when he decided to break out, nothing could deter him.

 

Our reality is Shawshank Prison. I am going to die anyway if I stay. So, I really need to get out. Are you coming or staying?

[Stosh]

Whats the rush?

[gentlewind]

You have lifted things I said out of their respective contexts and lumped them together to make your case. Please don't do that. There is no need to prove me wrong in my debate with Gentlewind.

It is not about who is right and who is wrong. I am not debating, we are having a discussion. It isn't a game of poker either sree . We are all right and we are all wrong . Everything is perfect even when you don't see the perfection. If its happening, if Life is Unfolding then all is perfect. Why ? Because it has happened. No arguing with reality - She has a 100% success win rate !

 

I am trying to disentangle my Tao of dying from Gentlewind's convictions about the right way to deal with life when faced with circumstances such as his. People in his situation (if you are one) should listen to him because what I have to say about my Tao of dying is not applicable.

sree, my way of dying is for me alone, it is not for anyone else. My way of dying has been perfected over my 50 + years. In the past I have worked with people who were severely disabled and were unable to talk, in comparison my Life is a picnic. We all suffer according to how in charge our mind's are. Much of how we act is machine like, due to the conditioning we have undergone; three main conditioners are, religion-education and politics.

No one should listen to me ! No one. Please look within yourself. I am merely in a discussion and sharing ideas. Find your own Truth. My Truth is My Truth and isn't right for anyone else. I offer only pointers, nothing else.

Guys who should take an interest in what I have to say are not on death row and want to be part of a prison break. Not all convicts want to get out and most don't care to. Only those who don't belong in prison do. Only one got out in Shawshank Redemption, the movie.

How much of a prison is your mind sree !

Death row is an illusion, just as yesterday has become an illusion.

 

Namaste,

 

gentlewind

[gentlewind]

This NDE video comes highly recommended.

 

enJOY.

 

 

 

My wife is right - I am a NDE video and book addict !!!

 

Namaste,

 

gentlewind

[三江源]

.

Edited April 4, 2015 by 三江源

[gentlewind]

gentlewind, I watched pmh atwater interviews that you posted.. really glad to have become acquainted with her, thankyou so much.

She truly is amazing cat, her Light shines so bright. Another amazing lady is Byron Katie, although it isn't NDE related it is Life related. She has helped me a great deal.

 

A video:-

 

Namaste,

 

gentlewind

[sree]

Your thoughts may be very consistent to you , and point you in a clear unambiguous direction spiritually ,, but the text looks contradictory and I cant get a good read on where it leads.

 

If my thoughts come across as being contradictory, then you need to point them out so I can fix them and give myself a boot in the butt.

 

It seems like you are on both sides of the fence , that you have so many good and sound ideas that a particular vector isnt evident TO ME.

 

Both sides of what fence? What is it that you think I am driving at but not spelling out?

 

The quotes are there for you to possibly 'get' what type of things it is ,that I am seeing ,, its not about gentlewind and 'taking sides' and to be honest its not exactly about dying unless that is central to you.

 

It is unfortunate that my use of the word "dying" has been misconstrued as the conventional kind of dying. I am not talking about this kind of dying which attract flies to the corpse as the spirit goes Home.

[Stosh]

Sorry ,Ill try for more clarity ,,,

One side of the fence

the s-pouch thing ,and all the dying talk ,and the dead duck, and escaping from prison stuff, is all pretty grim,,... and life is so unperfect ,and the only time you were ever at peace was... ,all underlines what appears to be a darkish look at life.

On the light side of the fence ..

BUT aside from the tenor of the wording , I cant help be see a energetic attitude, a patience with people that I just dont have, - a degree of comfortable certainty , and a rough unmatched compassion.

 

What is the unconventional dying yall are speaking of ? if its living,,, it would be cool to call it living.

 

I see a lot of posts where folks seem to want to escape from this 'horrid mundane and depleted existance'

as opposed to seeing acceptance of the world just as it is,, a freed verve due to improved perspective and healthy sckepticism for the contorted confabulations ones own mind creates. All the stuff I consider craziness like self-imposed and senseless dietary restrictions , magical causation , and belief in the externally imposed morality of goodness ,, it basically bums me out.

 

like this

hey everyone, i feel insecure about my beliefs and i need some affirmation that society sucks and that i am not the only one that thinks like i do. so please post everything you can find about how everything sucks

 

there is a lot of stuff that sucks, so this thread should fill up pretty fast.

 

i will start: don't you hate it that they don't design toilets to flush well enough to get rid of your entire dump in one flush? IT DRIVES ME INSANE

,

Edited May 31, 2013 by Stosh

[gentlewind]

Stosh, you been perusing the 'Society Sucks' thread !

 

Our conditioning begins in the womb. And it doesn't stop. We 'perform' like robots a lot of the time, we react to situations based on the level of conditioning we have been subjected to. We also have a lot of in built automatic reactions.

 

When my step son punched me I automatically hit him back. The situation escalated. I was co-author of this, and it was badly written on my part. If I ever find myself in a similar situation I would not react in the same way. Due to meditation and self enquiry I have deleted many harmful downloads, and this is an ongoing 'project' for me. I have become more sensitive to the needs of others, and before engaging in conversation try to keep my words true, and if I fail I simply try again; no guilt or self condemnation.

 

I am able to sit in my chair and enjoy the beauty of a blue sky, or an overcast sky. I also talk to my favorite tree. I enjoy what Life is. I don't like the word dying as their are so many harmful viruses connected with it. I have seen friends lose the plot because they view the death of a loved as a tragedy, and they wallow in their grief. Some have been in the wilderness of grief for years. It is sad, but it is 'what is' and so it is perfect for them as they are Life unfolding.

 

From a young age I have known their is no such thing as death. Before I read any books I just knew. It is a transition.

 

What has unfolded before my eyes during my 50 + yrs has validated this.

 

So I am prepared for my transition, and practice my bungy jumping technique often !

[Stosh]

Yeah I dropped in on that thread , positive messages get wrapped up in the others, it was just one of many.

 

I like your term " they are Life unfolding" Its a 'good' perspective- free of judgement.

Im not so sure popping the stepkid , when popped, is really all that inappropriate

there isnt enough for me to decide so.

His action could just as likely be a twisted plea for authority, physical contact, or testing boundaries

even though it escalated I hope that it all worked out.

[gentlewind]

Yeah I dropped in on that thread , positive messages get wrapped up in the others, it was just one of many.

 

I like your term " they are Life unfolding" Its a 'good' perspective- free of judgement.

Im not so sure popping the stepkid , when popped, is really all that inappropriate

there isnt enough for me to decide so.

His action could just as likely be a twisted plea for authority, physical contact, or testing boundaries

even though it escalated I hope that it all worked out.

The step son was 18, and had come back from a night out in a drunken state. I was in bed when he stumbled into our bedroom in search of the toilet ! I struggled out of bed to help him to the toilet, bare in mind I'm just out of hospital and can barely walk - I was in constant pain, in a beautifully miserable place. I stood outside the bathroom to make sure he didn't fall down the stairs as the drop is sharp. He came out and I put my hand on his shoulder to guide him towards his bedroom - and thats when he punched me ! My response was automatic. A brief skirmish broke out and he re-entered the bathroom and broke the sink. He was out of control and the police(ex wife rang them) were called and he was arrested. I'd never seen like this before, it wasn't a nice sight ! If his punch had gone into my abdomen I'd have been in serious trouble after my two operations in that area. My Invisible Helpers I believe intervened and averted a serious situation.

 

The step son has been what one can call a problem child, disliked by most of his blood family. He stole from his uncle who was running a market stall and was struggling financially, and also stole from my two brothers when we were on a mini road trip. He also kicked his Gran ! He also picked on his own sister, hitting her for no reason; one night whilst I was out and my brother was babysitting the stepson went into his sister's bedroom and slapped her for no reason(maybe he picked on his sister out of jealousy because she was 'my' daughter'- his half sister). So he didn't do himself any favors ! At school he was a problem child too, he drove one headmaster to utter despair. We supported the headmaster and school and were mystified as to why he was such a problem child, he was loved and spoilt by his Mum. But his Gran did warn me about him before I married his Mum, as did a few of my ex wife's brothers; they thought I needed my head testing !

 

A tune to mark the occasion !

 

AC/DC - Problem Child

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lfDUCRBmvpU

 

Namaste,

 

gentlewind

Edited May 31, 2013 by gentlewind

[hydrogen]

i will start: don't you hate it that they don't design toilets to flush well enough to get rid of your entire dump in one flush? IT DRIVES ME INSANE

,

 

 

 

It's so funny. I bet it never occur to that guy maybe he just shit too much than average people.

[gentlewind]

It's so funny. I bet it never occur to that guy maybe he just shit too much than average people.

Hydrogen - I do sh*t much more than the average person !!!

 

A 5 hrs sitting = a lot of human excrement

 

Trust me to lower the tone

 

Namaste,

 

gentlewind

[sree]

Sorry ,Ill try for more clarity ,,,

One side of the fence

the s-pouch thing ,and all the dying talk ,and the dead duck, and escaping from prison stuff, is all pretty grim,,... and life is so unperfect ,and the only time you were ever at peace was... ,all underlines what appears to be a darkish look at life.

On the light side of the fence ..

BUT aside from the tenor of the wording , I cant help be see a energetic attitude, a patience with people that I just dont have, - a degree of comfortable certainty , and a rough unmatched compassion.

 

What is the unconventional dying yall are speaking of ? if its living,,, it would be cool to call it living.

 

I see a lot of posts where folks seem to want to escape from this 'horrid mundane and depleted existance'

as opposed to seeing acceptance of the world just as it is,, a freed verve due to improved perspective and healthy sckepticism for the contorted confabulations ones own mind creates. All the stuff I consider craziness like self-imposed and senseless dietary restrictions , magical causation , and belief in the externally imposed morality of goodness ,, it basically bums me out.

 

like this

hey everyone, i feel insecure about my beliefs and i need some affirmation that society sucks and that i am not the only one that thinks like i do. so please post everything you can find about how everything sucks

 

there is a lot of stuff that sucks, so this thread should fill up pretty fast.

 

i will start: don't you hate it that they don't design toilets to flush well enough to get rid of your entire dump in one flush? IT DRIVES ME INSANE

 

Good Lord! I thought you were talking just to me. You are having a conversation with a whole multitude of demons like a priest in the exorcism of Linda Blair.