The Tao of Dying

[gentlewind]

That is profound. Always happy to be alive. Indeed.

I've had my dark times, come close to suicide twice. My first suicide attempt was at age 18 when I walked to a railway bridge and climbed on top of the wall ready to jump. An unseen force pulled me down.

 

As I say we all have Invisible Helpers, but were not all open or aware to them.

 

Second attempt was after being discharged home from hospital after two life saving operations. All the hard work had been done ! Nope ! It was just the beginning. I'll spare you the details of what led me to contemplate and formulate a plan - I have enough meds to sink a ship ! My daughter (unknowingly) stopped me from committing suicide. I was in a physical, mental, emotional and spiritual hell. Frightening times. Lonely times.

 

Yee haw - I survived. And yes I'm excited.

 

I'm currently reading 'The Life After Death' by CW Leadbeatter. Good read thus far - Chapter 6 next up.

 

Namaste,

 

gentlewind

[DragonsNectar69k]

I've had my dark times, come close to suicide twice. My first suicide attempt was at age 18 when I walked to a railway bridge and climbed on top of the wall ready to jump. An unseen force pulled me down.

 

As I say we all have Invisible Helpers, but were not all open or aware to them.

 

Second attempt was after being discharged home from hospital after two life saving operations. All the hard work had been done ! Nope ! It was just the beginning. I'll spare you the details of what led me to contemplate and formulate a plan - I have enough meds to sink a ship ! My daughter (unknowingly) stopped me from committing suicide. I was in a physical, mental, emotional and spiritual hell. Frightening times. Lonely times.

 

Yee haw - I survived. And yes I'm excited.

 

I'm currently reading 'The Life After Death' by CW Leadbeatter. Good read thus far - Chapter 6 next up.

 

Namaste,

 

gentlewind

 

I see. Yes. I could not imagine what that is like, but those invisible one's are there letting us know why we are here. I have a brother who has been sick for many years and hates the idea of 'God' or anything concerning it because it reminds him of his illness and the life he wishes he could be living. It sucks because it seems nothing will 'move' his mind, besides blaming others.

 

But I have also met 'handicap' people who are HIGHLY gifted and I mean HIGHLY. You give and take, I guess.

Edited June 4, 2013 by DragonsNectar69k

[sree]

At the end of it we all break down and die, thats the deal, no way out but that.

So I reitterate what is the rush ?

 

We will all breakdown and die? Generally, that's the case. Sounds like you have accepted your fate with the Grim Reaper.

 

One only rushes to get away from dissatisfaction ,either experienced or expected,

and one wants to remain where they are happy and satisfied.

 

Damn right. Dissatisfaction is the mother of invention.

 

Are you or I, "A players" if we arent happy? ( the rhetorical answer is supposed to be NO)

 

What exactly are you happy with? Apart from being satisfied with breaking down and dying like a bozo, what is it about your life situation that you are happy with? Even the damn monkey is not satisfied and happy being a monkey.

 

Edited June 4, 2013 by sree

[DragonsNectar69k]

We will all breakdown and die? Generally, that's the case. Sounds like you have accepted your fate with the Grim Reaper.

 

 

Damn right. Dissatisfaction is the mother of invention.

 

 

What exactly are you happy with? Apart from being satisfied with breaking down and dying like a bozo, what is it about your life situation that you are happy with? Even the damn monkey is not satisfied and happy being a monkey.

 

 

Not satisfy with one's own glory I see.

[effilang]

Ok, the premise here is that the senses are in the way and they distort perception. What are the instructions for cutting off the 5 thieves? (I tried web searching "Buddhaoism" and couldn't find it.)

 

 

A person born blind and deaf could still smell, taste and touch. There are three more senses in the way and need to be knocked out.

 

What is the benefit of becoming reality if it entails bestowing upon oneself total disability?

 

Buddhaoism was just a witty term. I'm not sure if such a discipline OFFICIALLY exists, although many put it into practice in their lives already.

 

In practice what really happens with cutting off the senses is something like this.

 

On the left is how we normally experience what is taking place.

 

The information is there in ultimate reality.

Reality is not X or Reality is not Y. REALITY IS. IT is BEYOND the duality of discriminative conceptualisation.

 

When you keep in Samadhi long enough, soon attachment to the senses begins to cut off.

In this scenario, the benefit of it is that, you can perceive reality directly. It is not warped through the perception of the individual senses. And I use the word individual here on purpose, because everyone senses (touch, sight, smell etc.) all function differently ie: One person may be color blind, the other with slight hearing problems, the second with very thick and coarse skin; unable to sense tactile stimuli in the same way as you etc.

 

Thus, the information we experience, when it is through our sense consciousness is our REALITY. That is why quantum physicists say, we create our own reality.

 

What we want is to achieve what is on the right and detach from the senses so we can experience REALITY directly, indiscriminately.

 

 

To answer your question. You don't actually cause yourself disability, you cause yourself ability.

Ability to perceive and experience without the labor of emotional attachment.

 

You learn to love without the attachment to love, which causes pain when love ceases.

You learn to be compassionate and kind and caring, without waiting to receive anything in return.

 

Every experience of the world brings an attachment with it to that experience, which in a way also diminishes the experience, because we are warping and distorting it again. So all these feelings we experience in life, hate, love, jealousy, envy, compassion etc. THAT we think we experience fully, we are not. Not while we are attached to them directly.

 

So here is the benefit.

 

In the diagram on the left, there is You. You experience through the senses.

When you send out love, you experience the love again through the senses and then someone on the other end receives the love. This is the nature state of things in the world after birth.

 

What we want to achieve is on the right. Can you see how the pink connection from You to the feeling of LOVE being emitted is gone? That is what happens when detachment from the senses is achieved or experienced.

 

So you might say, ok, but... How do you experience something if you no longer experience it?

This is the interesting part. What happens when you detach from the YOU. Is that another part of you emerges, which was always there, but you only become aware of it now, and this other part allows you to EXPRESS and EMIT an emotion, like love, without experiencing it through the senses.

 

The senses on their own have a limited bandwidth, that is why i purposely made the pink line THIN. But when you cut off the 5 thieves, pacify the heart and detach from the emotions. Then you can channel and express your emotions directly through space (all that white area on the image). This medium of communication has no bandwidth limit and although it is CONNECTED to you, it is NOT attached to you. So you can emit and emotion or experience an event, but because it is not connected to you through the senses, the capacity and potential to become attached to it is completely ELIMINATED.

 

You will be able to love and hate and be jealous and this and that, but you will not experience these things SENSUALLY any longer. The benefits of this is that, without the dual limitations of that pink line, your capacity to express and experience life becomes UNLIMITED. INFINITE.

 

You can love stronger than ever before, be more compassionate than ever, be kinder than ever etc. Without limit, without the need for reciprocation. There will be NO craving.

 

When a sight, or a sound or a smell enters the sense consciousness it will NOT stir the heart.

You know how when you experience an emotion, sometimes you get that flash of emotion in your heart? That will never happen again. The heart dies. And the more the heart dies, the more wisdom develops and your original nature is revealed.

 

I'm not sure if any of this is making sense, these are concepts and experiences which need to be felt by the practicer directly, but I have done my best to try and convey what has happened to me.

 

The direct benefits of this process are that, you are calmer, composed, always thinking clearly.

Never a prisoner to emotion.

 

A lot of people at this point say, but if you cant feel something like LOVE anymore, then why live?

 

Well that's not what really happens, but you need to experience it to understand.

You still love and experience love, but love no longer experiences you or has a hold on you.

 

I am just using LOVE as an example here, but this applies to all manner of emotion or sensations.

Edited June 4, 2013 by effilang

[gentlewind]

A favorite of mine, Pam Reynolds

 

Pam Reynolds Lowery from Atlanta, Georgia was an American singer-songwriter. In 1991, at the age of 35, she had a near-death experience (NDE) during a brain operation. Her NDE is one of the most notable and best documented in NDE research.
During "standstill" operation, Pam's brain was found "dead" by all three clinical tests - her electroencephalogram was silent, her brain-stem response was absent, and no blood flowed through her brain which left her clinically dead. Interestingly, while in this state, she encountered the "deepest" NDE of all.
She made several observations about the procedure which later were confirmed by medical personnel as surprisingly accurate.
Pamela Reynolds Lowery died of heart failure at the age of 53 (1956 -- May 22, 2010)

 

Namaste,

 

gentlewind

[sree]

Not satisfy with one's own glory I see.

 

Glory? I thought that ape was not happy with its state of ignorance.

[sree]

In practice what really happens with cutting off the senses is something like this.

 

What you have presented is a theory.

 

When a sight, or a sound or a smell enters the sense consciousness it will NOT stir the heart.

You know how when you experience an emotion, sometimes you get that flash of emotion in your heart? That will never happen again. The heart dies. And the more the heart dies, the more wisdom develops and your original nature is revealed.

 

Your objective is to cut out the emotional reaction.

 

I'm not sure if any of this is making sense, these are concepts and experiences which need to be felt by the practicer directly, but I have done my best to try and convey what has happened to me.

 

I understand what you are saying even though what you said doesn't make sense.

 

The direct benefits of this process are that, you are calmer, composed, always thinking clearly.

Never a prisoner to emotion.

 

Cutting out emotions because they are problematic is a very drastic choice to make. It's like prescribing lobotomy to deal with and control shcizophrenia.

 

A lot of people at this point say, but if you cant feel something like LOVE anymore, then why live?

 

Well that's not what really happens, but you need to experience it to understand.

You still love and experience love, but love no longer experiences you or has a hold on you.

 

I am just using LOVE as an example here, but this applies to all manner of emotion or sensations.

 

Like I said, it's a theory. Why are you attracted to this? You have problematic emotional reactions to your sensory experiences?

Edited June 4, 2013 by sree

[effilang]

There is suffering.

The cause of suffering is craving.

There is an end to craving.

There is a path to the cessation of craving.

 

These were theories very long ago.

Now they are standards and one need only practice to realize their truth and benefits.

 

Detachment from the 5 senses and the emotional reactions they elicit, is a direct result of practicing meditation properly. It is a by product of abiding in emptiness after the sixth consciousness has been tied up through an effective means.

 

It is a result of letting go and requires Wu Wei, not a result derived from doing or wanting to do.

That will only cause resistance and more blockages and pain.

 

Detachment from the senses is instrumental in the success in every genuine spiritual practice, including Taoism : )

Edited June 4, 2013 by effilang

[sree]

There is suffering.

The cause of suffering is craving.

There is an end to craving.

There is a path to the cessation of craving.

 

These were theories very long ago.

 

You are quoting Buddhist scripture founded on the story of the Buddha.

 

Now they are standards and one need only practice to realize their truth and benefits.

 

Have you been successful in your practice?

 

Detachment from the 5 senses and the emotional reactions they elicit, is a direct result of practicing meditation properly. It is a by product of abiding in emptiness after the sixth consciousness has been tied up through an effective means.

 

Are you sure the senses are the root cause of suffering? Why not pin the fault on craving?

 

It is a result of letting go and requires Wu Wei, not a result derived from doing or wanting to do.

That will only cause resistance and more blockages and pain.

 

Do you think it is correct to equate the “letting go” of Buddhist philosophy with the Wu-wei ( 無爲) of the Tao Te Ching? Buddhists believe in ending suffering while philosophical Daoists believe in being satisfied with whatever and not giving a damn.

 

Detachment from the senses is instrumental in the success in every genuine spiritual practice, including Taoism : )

 

I don’t think detachment from the senses is a teaching of the Tao Te Ching. Chapter 12 says the five colors make one blind in the eyes. Come to think of it (meditation in the Buddhist sense), it is not even the colors themselves that cause problems. It is the meanings derived from colors that arouse emotions. Color symbolism excites and churns sentiments.

[effilang]

Nevermind, Sree.

Edited June 4, 2013 by effilang

[DragonsNectar69k]

You are quoting Buddhist scripture founded on the story of the Buddha.

 

 

Have you been successful in your practice?

 

 

Are you sure the senses are the root cause of suffering? Why not pin the fault on craving?

 

 

Do you think it is correct to equate the “letting go” of Buddhist philosophy with the Wu-wei ( 無爲) of the Tao Te Ching? Buddhists believe in ending suffering while philosophical Daoists believe in being satisfied with whatever and not giving a damn.

 

 

I don’t think detachment from the senses is a teaching of the Tao Te Ching. Chapter 12 says the five colors make one blind in the eyes. Come to think of it (meditation in the Buddhist sense), it is not even the colors themselves that cause problems. It is the meanings derived from colors that arouse emotions. Color symbolism excites and churns sentiments.

 

You know sree, can you argue that taking a dump is NOT beneficial for one's own health and well being, possibly even spiritually? You seem to love counter arguments...

 

Everyday I detach a turd from my being and it has never caused me any problems by doing so. Now, HOLDING onto this turd, yes, that usually causes a lot of suffering and pain. It does not allow me to 'BE', my being is to focused on this turd to understand itself or to even know that 'I AM'. You see sree?

 

Your holding in your turd, constantly refining it with every argument waiting until death to release this turd... Have you not realized that you can hold many different perspectives and opinions, just be releasing the current one you have and digesting a new one? Yes, it sort of is like eating food. You choose the food you favor, you enjoy it for whatever it is worth, you digest, you understand it, you become one with it, and then you let it go. So you can repeat the process again and again. So let your turd go sree, or else you might throw it up.

Edited June 5, 2013 by DragonsNectar69k

[gentlewind]

You know sree, can you argue that taking a dump is NOT beneficial for one's own health and well being, possibly even spiritually? You seem to love counter arguments...

 

Everyday I detach a turd from my being and it has never caused me any problems by doing so. Now, HOLDING onto this turd, yes, that usually causes a lot of suffering and pain. It does not allow me to 'BE', my being is to focused on this turd to understand itself or to even know that 'I AM'. You see sree?

 

Your holding in your turd, constantly refining it with every argument waiting until death to release this turd... Have you not realized that you can hold many different perspectives and opinions, just be releasing the current one you have and digesting a new one? Yes, it sort of is like eating food. You choose the food you favor, you enjoy it for whatever it is worth, you digest, you understand it, you become one with it, and then you let it go. So you can repeat the process again and again. So let your turd go sree, or else you might throw it up.

Dragon !

 

Wow !

 

A turd analogy ! I am chuffed for obvious reasons. Turds do have more than use !

 

Here's a weird one, Due to my being colon free if I were to take a laxative - it'd kill me. Yes, fact ! I was on a hospital ward when a fellow pouch owner was suffering from what is known as 'frozen pouch' - this causes the pouch owner to, ahem, vomit his/her turds; and this is all true. The nursing staff tried to make the frozen pouch sufferer take laxatives, which she refused - thankfully. When her surgeon (we have the same one) came around she informed him and he blew a fuse. He let them know in no uncertain manner NOT to even attempt it.

 

Sorry for those who are weak of stomach.

 

Namaste,

 

gentlewind

[gentlewind]

another chapter devoured. I have learnt that C W Leadbeater (author) has a booklet called Invisible Helpers ! This book 'The Life After Death' was written in 1912. Nice 'coincidence' after my calling them Invisible Helpers.

 

Namaste,

 

gentlewind

Edited June 5, 2013 by gentlewind

[sree]

another chapter devoured. I have learnt that C W Leadbeater (author) has a booklet called Invisible Helpers ! This book 'The Life After Death' was written in 1912. Nice 'coincidence' after my calling them Invisible Helpers.

 

Do you realize that Leadbeater was a serial pedophile? Also, he was the bishop of some heretic version of the Catholic Church, a religion which you condemned as propaganda. He also discovered DrangonNectar's monk who was killed by the same disease that visited you: cancer.

[sree]

Nevermind, Sree.

 

I should have told you that I debate Buddhist scholars all over the world wherever I find them. The last one was a Tibetan Rimpoche with a PhD in engineering at MIT.

 

DragonNectar is right. I just love to argue.

[DragonsNectar69k]

I should have told you that I debate Buddhist scholars all over the world wherever I find them. The last one was a Tibetan Rimpoche with a PhD in engineering at MIT.

 

DragonNectar is right. I just love to argue.

 

Tisk tisk. Practicing Tao in a reverse manor I see. lol. Fun. Why not reserve judgement and just observe? You may find hidden gems... Turd holder.

[sree]

Tisk tisk. Practicing Tao in a reverse manor I see. lol. Fun. Why not reserve judgement and just observe? You may find hidden gems... Turd holder.

 

The hidden gems I find are in the world markets. They are the kind that I can cash in for US dollars. I am neither a spiritualist nor an atheist. I just like to argue with you guys to keep my mind sharp. I can play your game. I don't think you can play my game because you need to have money and the guts to put it where your mouth is.

[DragonsNectar69k]

The hidden gems I find are in the world markets. They are the kind that I can cash in for US dollars. I am neither a spiritualist nor an atheist. I just like to argue with you guys to keep my mind sharp. I can play your game. I don't think you can play my game because you need to have money and the guts to put it where your mouth is.

 

Which is weird to think about, because I don't think any actually cares to do so... You do realize that you can take that money and pay a stripper to stroke your ego for you in ways we never could... Just saying. I don't quite understand the notion of wanting to get off by getting off on other people... Seems ironic and silly. But if it makes you smile, OK.

Edited June 5, 2013 by DragonsNectar69k

[DragonsNectar69k]

Now concerning the market... This is why the stock market is BS.

 

 

What happened in the 1990s? It's called the 401k. Pensions use to be simple and easy. Not anymore. Now it is just rise and repeat. PUMP and DUMP. PUMP and DUMP on prices for the last 20 years.

[三江源]

.

Edited July 25, 2014 by cat

[Stosh]

We will all breakdown and die? Generally, that's the case. Sounds like you have accepted your fate with the Grim Reaper.

 

 

Damn right. Dissatisfaction is the mother of invention.

 

 

What exactly are you happy with? Apart from being satisfied with breaking down and dying like a bozo, what is it about your life situation that you are happy with? Even the damn monkey is not satisfied and happy being a monkey.

 

Not "generally the case" ALWAYS THE CASE -we die

There just isnt anything anyone has ever ,or will ever, be able to do anything about it.

 

So yes I have largely accepted that fate ( but I pretty much expect to run, if the reaper shows up)

Yep dissatisfaction drives human ingenuity in large degree, but personally, I dont see what good ingenuity is!

if your life experience still sucks.

Its hard to say what! exactly I am happy with , I COULD be miserable with it all ,I guess, too. Im just not.

Thats the point I am trying to 'foist'

When Im not happy, its because I am pushing myself there-( because I am entertaining-sustaining stupid conceptry)

 

Most of the stuff I was trained to think was wrong , and un-learning that stuff is my "practice" or "discipline".

[Stosh]

Let go your turd Sree!

 

Ahh haa haa haaa ha !

 

(I love that)

[Mal]

While thinking about this thread (which I enjoy {both the thread and thinking about it}) I realized that if "The Tao of Dying" was a book, then it would be like a book on sex written by a virgin.

 

No funny images to tag this one with, just a short Chaung Tzu

 

“Unconcerned they came and unconcerned they went. That was all."

[gentlewind]

Do you realize that Leadbeater was a serial pedophile? Also, he was the bishop of some heretic version of the Catholic Church, a religion which you condemned as propaganda. He also discovered DrangonNectar's monk who was killed by the same disease that visited you: cancer.

You are a hoot sree, you really are !

 

Leadbeater's book is full of information which resonates with me.

 

As for being a serial pedophile, I'll research this.

 

You were promoting the Pope(and Dalai Lama) the other day; the Pope is head of a pedophile organisation known as the Roman Catholic Church. This is well documented. The Vatican has 'special' centers all over the world for its child preying priests, over 50 I believe. Plus it makes 'hush-hush' payments to silence the victims of its vile preying priests. A bishop said that abortion is a worse sin than priests who are pedophiles. The pope says women should be child bearers and stay in the kitchen, they should not get involved in politics etc.

 

As for him being the bishop of some heretic version of the catholic church, so what ! All religions are bogus. They all peddle nonsense and groom the gullible.

 

Namaste,

 

gentlewind

 

You do love to bathe in the negative layers sree, why not catch some sun shine.