The Tao of Dying

[sree]

death like sleep?

or death like being awake, but locked in a box?

or death like nothingness, no ideas, no self?

death like a blanket?

death like birth

unremembered

 

relax

 

You are trying to imagine conventional death when the airplane you are riding in crashes with you in it. This kind of death is not a pretty part of life.

 

Death would not be like being awake and locked in a box or like anything you are imagining. It is the dying process that you will experience.

 

If it is sudden death that takes you by surprise, you won’t know what hits you - like a soldier with his head blown off by a sniper’s bullet.

 

If it is impending death that you can feel coming as the body checks out, you either psyche yourself up like a monk gone bonkers or go down crying in fear. In either case, you – as a person - will disintegrate before the body shuts down.

 

I prefer the Tao of Dying.

[gentlewind]

We all complain from time to time. Some more than others.

 

All have become lost, the poor and the rich; but in reality their are no poor nor rich. These are yet more labels and more distractions.

 

I have never wanted to be 'rich' - for I am already rich, beyond my wildest dreams. Wish I'd have realized sooner. But I'm not complaining as Life has truly blessed me, and I am grateful for all that Life has given me. Wonderful Teacher.

 

I complain less and less these days, and I am always thankful for what is given me. I seek nothing else.

 

People who moan are liars - to themselves in the first instance.

 

Everyone is rich.

 

The System though has indoctrinated many into believing It's lies, helped by its bastard children called

 

education

religion

politics,

 

and yes their are many more bastard children, but three will do for here.

 

Everyone loves a good moan - it clears the air ! But some are addicts to this dreaded condition, rich and poor alike.

 

Death is for those who complain.

 

Blessings to you All.

 

Namaste,

 

gentlewind

[sree]

These observations are thoughtful and merit discussion.

 

I don't think the nuclear family is a good model for raising kids.

 

The nuclear family is created by individualism. If it is not good, how come it is quite popular in modern societies?

 

The nuclear family places the woman and her kids at the mercy and under the dictatorship of the man. This is a bad situation considering our love of democracy and distaste for dictators.

 

In relation to the Tao of dying it is also not too good for elderly and infirm who need help and end up being a "burden."

 

The elderly and infirmed become a burden on account of the divisive nuclear family that forces each family unit to shoulder its own problems. Care of a single autistic child can cripple the family.

 

Even when the welfare state doles out financial support, it is still an undignified solution. This makes being old and sick a horrible fate.

 

Anthropologically, it has not been that long since we lived in tribal groups or at least in communities with lots of extended family nearby. It might sound hokey but it really does take a village.

 

Of course it takes a whole community to care for each and everyone comprising it. It is not hokey but the intelligent way to live. No country is doing this satisfactorily because of individualism – each of us want to be an individual.

 

Too many parents in nuclear families end up being pulled apart with childcare, their own parents needs and trying go to work.

 

There is this guy in Tennessee who fathered 22 children with 14 women. It is a nuclear family created by that dolt and those silly women. Now the whole USA village has to pay the tab.

 

It is bad enough for earnest people struggling to support the elderly and the children in their own respective families.

 

Factors are different for a single healthy person.

 

Factors are great for single healthy people but women want babies of their own. They convince bozos to marry them and start nuclear families.

 

To raise children or care for elderly is very stressful and difficult in our culture unless people have lots of social support- or lots of money.

 

Why can’t children and the elderly be supported by the whole community of single healthy people? Do away with the nuclear family.

[hydrogen]

Though sree was called turd holder and other things.

 

We have to give him credit for only complaining in his own thread, and his consistence of 1 and 2 movement kung fu style.

[Stosh]

STYLE certainly.

[sree]

We all have much compassion for you, We are all trying to raise the dead and bring you back to life. What complains and wants to be rich is what makes you dead to those that are already truly alive.

 

Who are those who are truly alive? You? And who else? Seriously, tell me and engage me in serious discussion, the kind that improves the human condition.

 

Embrace all, pain, suffering, joy, it is all one. Pain keeps are bodies safe,There is safety in danger, life in death, melt the mental boundaries and be free forever....maybe

 

Pain is the absence of joy, and suffering is the absence of happiness. To lump it all up – pain and joy and suffering and happiness – and suck it all in is plain stupid.

 

Of course, physical pain does alert us to danger. Pain is supposed to invoke an intelligent response to withdraw from danger in order to end the pain and be free forever OF SUFFERING!

 

This Mighty Mudball of a world burdens us with a body, troubles us with life, eases us with old age, and with death gives us rest. We call our life a blessing, so our death must be a blessing too.

 

No man. You’ve got it wrong. Life is great but death is not a blessing and does not have to be part of life.

 

Why is death a blessing? Is it because it frees you from the burdens of the body?

 

If you choose death as the only way out, you would still have to go through the process of dying – a horrid mess. This is an inferior solution.

 

Steve Jobs would fire you. He would want a solution with better user-interface that gives great customer experience - no dying.

Edited June 14, 2013 by sree

[Wu Ming Jen]

Human condition, It is not about others, it is about your perceptions of the world that you live in. Mr Sree.

 

I did not put Chuang Tzu name after his famous saying that only you could argue, reject and not listen to the message, not words or word structure but the message.

 

I have sadness for you and I welcome it freely because I Listen and care for humanity.

 

On a side note 683 post so far what thread holds the record?

Edited June 14, 2013 by Wu Ming Jen

[sree]

Yes in the fictive world of shakespeare romeo and juliet are real characters.

 

Are you not a real character? Is reality not a fictive world?

 

We are constrained by circumstance -regardless!

 

We ARE the circumstance. You are not the monkey in the cage. You are the monkey AND the cage.

This is the true meaning of a oneness in which there is separateness.

 

What is the difference between the mind that sees itself as the monkey living in the cage, and the mind that sees itself as both the monkey and the cage?

 

One sees the cage as the constraint while the other sees itself as the constraint.

 

This is good meditation. I need to set up the prayer wheel for you to chant the sutra.

[gentlewind]

Departing

Energy

Astrally

Travelling

Home.

 

Namaste,

 

gentlewind

[silent thunder]

Departing

Energy

Astrally

Travelling

Home.

 

Namaste,

 

gentlewind

Gooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooal!

[gentlewind]

Gooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooal!

Yesssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss !!! Thank you Silent Thunder !!!

 

As I'm a football fan I truly appreciate that - Gooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooal !!! I was back standing on the Kop for a moment, celebrating as Liverpool FC overturned a 0-2 half time scoreline to win 3-2 in a cracking local derby !!!

 

Namaste,

 

gentlewind

[sree]

It's Friday night. I want to take a break from death and dying stuff.

 

I am making lemon tarts for dessert. Waiting for them to cool out of the oven. Dinner was magic. I won't say what we ate. There are spiritualists who won't like it. But it was great! I cooked dinner (but I'm not gay).

 

The temperature is great here tonight on the porch. Maybe 68 degrees. Cool. I don't know. Life is so wonderful. This is why I must find the way out for all of us (mankind) - the Tao of Dying.

[sree]

Human condition, It is not about others, it is about your perceptions of the world that you live in. Mr Sree.

 

It is easy to be lulled into spiritual-speak. It is a different kind of language you don’t use in the gym or the bar on a Saturday night when you are fully awake and in touch with your perceptions of the world you live in.

 

Right now, I am in touch with the US Open and rather disappointed with Tiger Woods messing up again. “I can do that,” said a ridiculously fat guy on the recumbent bike I was standing next to as we watched Woods on TV miss a putt from under six feet, yet again. I turned to look at the fat guy in despair as he burst out laughing. It was sad because it was true. Any bozo could have done that from under six feet.

 

And we are all Tiger Woods of the spiritual world – Chuang Tzu, one and all – and yet not one is able to sink that damn putt from under six feet.

 

I did not put Chuang Tzu name after his famous saying that only you could argue, reject and not listen to the message, not words or word structure but the message.

 

Chuang Tzu. Why is he famous? Did he find the Tao of Dying, or was he constrained by circumstances too and died a conventional death like a bozo?

 

I have sadness for you and I welcome it freely because I Listen and care for humanity.

 

Talk is cheap, Mr Wu. If you have really listened and do care, you would sink that putt for me so I don’t have to do it. Humanity has got to find the Tao of Dying.

 

On a side note 683 post so far what thread holds the record?

 

If you are not so self-conscious, you would focus on the topic. To you, it may be a record of achievement, regardless. In the real world, where money talks and results count, this would be a record of colossal waste if you have learned nothing from this thread after 683 posts. Such pointless cash burn on Research & Development would wipe out any business enterprise.

Edited June 15, 2013 by sree

[gentlewind]

For those who may have missed this excellent video, here it is again.

 

and be sure to watch Part 2 !

 

Namaste,

 

gentlewind

[sree]

Anyone who doesnt want thier evil money any more should post me, so I can tell them where to send it.

 

Aversion for money is based on the western belief that it is easier for a camel to enter the needle’s eye than for a rich man to enter the Kingdom of God.

 

People who are averse to money, naturally, don’t have any to give away; and those who speak ill of money usually don’t have enough of it to live with dignity. In a material reality where economic viability is a measure of self-worth, this lack of money is insulting to one who believes one’s market value is wrongfully marked way below one’s true intrinsic value. The only way to redress this injustice is to diss the material world and re-price oneself in the spiritual realm where the currency is love and compassion rather than US dollars, the Euro or the British Pound.

 

Money is a medium of exchange , a means of trading skills and efforts so one can promote that which they want promoted and to focus efforts on tasks that need to be done for the benefit of society.

 

Money is indeed a medium of exchange, but the rest of what you said is unintelligible.

 

Chickens could be money, carrots could be money, sweat equity could be money,, its just easier to hand paper back and forth.

 

People into spiritualism may not know this, but we have gone beyond paper a long time ago. The cash you carry in your pocket to tip the waiter or valet is a very small part of the volume of money, amounting to trillions of dollars, in circulation electronically every single day. Greater than the fear of death is my fear of getting financially wiped out due to sudden electronic glitches in the financial systems of the world.

 

The problem with life is not money per se. It is the monetization of life itself in a world that is getting increasingly difficult to live in. Wisdom, that is relevant to humanity, must come from dealing with life. Do monks meditate on this? I don’t think so. It is easier to spin prayer wheels and other worldly stuff in the name of spiritualism.

[Wu Ming Jen]

 

Chuang Tzu. Why is he famous? Did he find the Tao of Dying, or was he constrained by circumstances too and died a conventional death like a bozo?

 

He wrote some stuff in the fourth century BCE, will see where your Tao of dying is in a month.

 

So many post and exceptional responses.

 

I can't sink the putt for you, that is the point.

 

The best advice is pointing, it is you that passes through the gate.

 

Great wealth has been handed to you freely, your research and development team has an agenda and is manipulating the data to fit its own criteria,you should fire them.

 

How can you watch Golf? I hope you are a player at least.

 

Sales up, cost down for 7 straight years with growth of over 24% yearly. I own everything with no debt.Expansion plans in place, construction begins in 12 days, increase in sales will offset all cost within 3 months of revenue. Am I speaking your language now? If you wish we can converse in business terms.

 

Death image slows sales, living 5 years and then being considered a survivor statistically bends perception into believing a product is good and becomes viable monetarily.

 

We can bend perception to make people believe in a product. What is transparent is the original intention of greed and manipulation with no actual concern for those buying the product.

 

My company is the opposite, putting the concerns and needs of people before profit yet sales increase.

 

Your Tao of Dying is a promotion of the typical industry of mass sales. The results you are looking for are not tangible and can not be sold or consumed. Based on this information I will have to say no to your offer of commercializing your product and making it available to the general public. Thank you for your time and exceptional debating skills.

[zerostao]

"Greater than the fear of death is my fear of getting financially wiped out due to sudden electronic glitches in the financial systems of the world."

prime confession of how weak you are.

edit edit edit hehehehe

i had some links to futuristic mind controlling hollogram and cyborg stuff and links to arcane alchemy stuff.

but i am gonna break it down in simple;

the tree of life is not a money tree

Edited June 16, 2013 by zerostao

[sree]

He wrote some stuff in the fourth century BCE, will see where your Tao of dying is in a month.

 

To see into the future is to imagine and project an outcome. This is called fortune-telling. So, if we want to know where the Tao of Dying is going, we could ask a fortune-teller, a Daoist priest, who would cast the yarrow sticks and bullshit us.

 

You know you are smarter than a Daoist priest. So let’s do the fortune-telling ourselves, throw some coins and ask the I Ching.

 

I did, and here is the result:

 

First throw: head, head, head. This is 3+3+3 = 9, an unbroken line. _________________

Second throw: tail, tail, head. This is 2+2+3 = 7, an unbroken line. _________________

Third throw: head, head, tail. This is 3+3+2 = 8, a broken line . ________ ________

Fourth throw: head, head, head. This is 3+3+3= 9, an unbroken line _________________

Fifth throw: head, tail, head. This is 3+2+3 = 8, a broken line ________ ________

Sixth throw: tail, tail, tail. This is 2+2+2 = 6, a broken line. ________ ________

 

This is hexagram No. 53 - 漸 Jian (Development/Gradual Progress)

 

What is your reading of this hexagram, Mr. Wu? If you don’t accept my hexagram, you can consult the oracle yourself here:

http://www.yellowbridge.com/mysticism/i-ching-wizard.php

[gentlewind]

Ralph Waldo Trine

 

If the windows of your soul are dirty and streaked, covered with matter foreign to them,
then the world as you look out of them will be to you dirty and streaked and out of
order. Cease your complainings, however; keep your pessimism, your "poor,
unfortunate me" to yourself, lest you betray the fact that your windows are badly in
need of something.

 

Namaste,

 

gentlewind

[zerostao]

To see into the future is to imagine and project an outcome. This is called fortune-telling. So, if we want to know where the Tao of Dying is going, we could ask a fortune-teller, a Daoist priest, who would cast the yarrow sticks and bullshit us.

 

You know you are smarter than a Daoist priest. So let’s do the fortune-telling ourselves, throw some coins and ask the I Ching.

 

I did, and here is the result:

 

First throw: head, head, head. This is 3+3+3 = 9, an unbroken line. _________________

Second throw: tail, tail, head. This is 2+2+3 = 7, an unbroken line. _________________

Third throw: head, head, tail. This is 3+3+2 = 8, a broken line . ________ ________

Fourth throw: head, head, head. This is 3+3+3= 9, an unbroken line _________________

Fifth throw: head, tail, head. This is 3+2+3 = 8, a broken line ________ ________

Sixth throw: tail, tail, tail. This is 2+2+2 = 6, a broken line. ________ ________

 

This is hexagram No. 53 - 漸 Jian (Development/Gradual Progress)

 

What is your reading of this hexagram, Mr. Wu? If you don’t accept my hexagram, you can consult the oracle yourself here:

http://www.yellowbridge.com/mysticism/i-ching-wizard.php

sree, you are mistaken here, you actually threw hexagram 54, we build the hexagram from the bottom up and not the top down, as you just did. if the the hexagram 54 gave its judgement it is one of misfortune, but it is not that simple my friend.

however you threw 3 changing lines lines 1, 4, and 6

so, hexagram does not give the judgement , but the changing lines 1, 4, and 6 must be pondered upon and careful consideration given to what they are telling you.

your final hexagram where all 3 lines change gives you hexagram 4.

again, this is my view of it, and not everyone calculates the way that i do.

some only consider the first changing line i have been told.

i like to consider all wisdom shared by I Ching

hexagram 4 gives an interesting judgement in this case, i think it fits

Edited June 16, 2013 by zerostao

[Wu Ming Jen]

This is the Ching I tossed ....Retreat in this instance is not a desperate flight in disarray, but a conscious choice to distance yourself from forces that would rob you of your peace.

It is not a surrender, but a regrouping.

Retreat from this conflict is actually an advance toward your own center.

You move toward balance, and a superior position.

[sree]

sree, you are mistaken here, you actually threw hexagram 54, we build the hexagram from the bottom up and not the top down, as you just did. if the the hexagram 54 gave its judgement it is one of misfortune, but it is not that simple my friend.

 

WE build the hexagram? What do you mean by “WE”. Are you Chinese?

 

Anyway, you are right about building the hexagram from bottom up. But why do you say it is one of misfortune?

 

Hexagram 54 is 歸妹 Guei Mei –The Marrying Maiden. Are you using the Wilhelm translation? I want to compare your interpretation with my reading of the Chinese text.

 

however you threw 3 changing lines lines 1, 4, and 6

so, hexagram does not give the judgement , but the changing lines 1, 4, and 6 must be pondered upon and careful consideration given to what they are telling you.

 

The hexagram and the moving lines 1, 4 and 6 are talking to Mr Wu. It was he who has the question about the future of the Tao of Dying.

 

your final hexagram where all 3 lines change gives you hexagram 4.

again, this is my view of it, and not everyone calculates the way that i do.

some only consider the first changing line i have been told.

i like to consider all wisdom shared by I Ching

hexagram 4 gives an interesting judgement in this case, i think it fits

 

Your call coincides with mine on the final Hexagram No. 4. Why do you think it fits? Fit what?

 

I agree with your way of reading the the I Ching. In fact, I read it like Confucius – reflectively from beginning to end to extract all wisdom from the human consciousness.

 

Let’s see how much wisdom we can draw from the depths of the I Ching in this consultation on Mr Wu’s low expectation of the Tao of Dying.

[sree]

This is the Ching I tossed ....Retreat in this instance is not a desperate flight in disarray, but a conscious choice to distance yourself from forces that would rob you of your peace.

It is not a surrender, but a regrouping.

Retreat from this conflict is actually an advance toward your own center.

You move toward balance, and a superior position.

 

What did you toss, Mr Wu?

[sree]

Did you toss Hexagram No 33 - 遯 Dun (Retreat)?

[zerostao]

we, as reflective investigators, no?

yes wilhelm /baynes, yes marrying maiden.

the wealth of consultation with the 3 changing lines and final hexagram

specifically speak (uncanny) to what you asked, no?

Edited June 17, 2013 by zerostao