The Tao of Dying

[sree]

First of all, before I get into the serious business of this thread, let me not forget to play. I notice that you perform music. What kind of instrument do you play or are you a conductor of an orchestra? I am pretty unspiritually low-class when it comes to music performance. I don't play Bach on the piano. I play the Fender guitar with a band: Like this guy:

 

 

I say the body is a plane that we ride...that is all. How much we KNOW this, depends on how much we ask this question of ourselves. Hence your question in this forum

 

Yeah. How much do we know about this body of a plane that we are riding in? And I don't mean biological knowledge.

 

The more we know, the more we control the plane and accept when the plane is ready to crash.

 

What do you mean by "accept"? Go down with the plane? No way! Giving up the body because it can't last forever is the intelligent thing to do. There comes a time when the body goes its way and you go yours - like two friends parting with affection.

 

Others know that they are going to die, but they do not really understand it...or they are scared of it. So they mask it and forget about it until one day it hits them. Some will be disappointed that they didn't do more with their lives, and others will lye there in fear because they're attached to this world and don't know what to do now that they're about to lose it.

 

Good commentary on living, my friend. What we need from you now is an equally good commentary on dying.

 

But yes, we're here, and when the body goes, we'll be elsewhere...but what does it matter. We can't stop it, can we?

 

Elsewhere? Where do you think we are going when the plane is going down? Don't mess around. This is a serious subject. Imagine you are the captain. The plane is going down. You get on the P.A. system to inform your passengers that it's MAYDAY and the plane is going down. Damn it captain! Thanks for telling us where the plane is going. Where the hell are we going!?

Edited May 27, 2013 by sree

[gentlewind]

A couple of good documentaries both fit the subject matter of this thread nicely.

 

The first video:

 

Becki Hawkins, a hospice nurse and a chaplain, is the author of "Transitions: A Nurse's Education About Life And Death". She sat by the bedside of seriously ill and terminally ill patients for more than 30 years as an oncology and hospice nurse. During that time, she listened to patients describe various kinds of spiritual experiences, including near-death experiences. Becki shared some of her stories, including the lessons she learned from them, on Tuesday, October 9, 2012 with a small group of people that gathered at St. Andrew's Episcopal Church in Sedona, Arizona. Becki's presentation was co-sponored by NewHeaveNewEarth (NHNE) and The Mustard Seed Venture. Her presentation was part of an ongoing series of classes taught by David Sunfellow on near-death experiences.

 

 

I've watched it twice and cannot rule out a third viewing !

 

The Afterlife Investigations - The Scole Experiment

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_eaDHa0v5Zs

 

http://www.thescoleexperiment.com/

 

I've also watched The Scole Experiment twice, and again, a third viewing may be in order.

 

Namaste,

 

gentlewind

[sree]

Gentlewinds position is admirable to me. The other fall back position... I dont know what it is.

 

Gentlewind’s position is admirable only if it cannot be avoided – like the Passion of Christ: no snivelling or begging for mercy from the first lash of the whip to the crowning of torns till death on the cross. Jesus did not want Gentlewind’s position. He prayed in the garden at Gethsamane to be spared such a fate.

 

I just don't get it why there is this admiration of suffering. Apart from Jesus and the Buddha, the rest of mankind seem drawn to suffering like moths to the fire, and bugs to the bug-zapper.

 

The other fall back position will only be discussed with those in the expedition after they have burned their bridges and left the shores where the certainty of a fate such as Gentlewind’s is sealed.

[三江源]

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Edited April 4, 2015 by 三江源

[sree]

Heading north and heading south.When we head south we turn our back on the north. When we head north we turn our back on the south. What does this have to do with dying,lets say life is positive and death is negative in a very conditioned way of thinking. Few are brave enough to turn around and head back into the gate of life.

 

There is nothing positive or negative about life or death of the body. All things come and go in a never-ending cycle. But how do we fit in with this scheme of things? I am talking about us. Do you know what "us" is? One conditioned way of thinking is to regard us as the human race. Another conditioned way of thinking is to regard us as spirits that will depart to God knows where after our bodies die. What is your way of thinking? Tell me, and let's find out if it is also conditioned.

 

We need to make room for birth and give up this temporary body called death.Birth and death are fused together. Only the weak will challenge natures process and complain no matter what challenges we may face in the process. When we are no longer separate from the process there is great peace and freedom involved and we have the strength to meet all things in life.

 

Are you talking about the birth and death of the body? I don't think anyone here is debating against the death of the body. Elsewhere in other threads there may be talk about Taoist immortality. But we are not into that here.

 

When we have this strength death will run away scared of having no power over us.Fear is fearful of something now that is amazing power not for just mere mortals.

 

Death has never been known to run away from anyone. The Grim Reaper takes no prisoners and none escapes his sycthe.

[sree]

I DONT ADMIRE SUFFERING!

 

None should even be touched by it. This is my founding belief. I do not accept pain as a part of life which includes the birth and death of the body. All that screaming of agony in the labor rooms is also unacceptable. No birthing stress in nature. What's going wrong with women?

 

I admire happiness,laughing, love-ing, dancing, playing.

 

This is the way, our birthright. None should have to struggle for these; and yet, none has it.

 

What I admire is gentlewind has no fear.

 

Suffering UNAVOIDABLE pain without fear is commendable. An example of this is Aron Ralston, the canyoneer who was trapped by a boulder and he amputated his own arm to free himself. The object lesson to learn here is to NEVER EVER get our arms trapped by boulders. There is no value in admiring guys like Aron and be inspired to have no fear when amputating our own arms.

 

Which is better? To get sick and learn to hang tough like Gentlewind or learn never to get sick?

Edited May 27, 2013 by sree

[三江源]

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Edited April 4, 2015 by 三江源

[thelerner]

Learned or not, humans get sick. There's no choice. I've heard it said, being in pain is not a choice, but suffering is. There's a trick to it, you can be in pain and not suffer. Most of us can do it for a little while, especially when its not too intense, way harder when its intense and long.

 

Course much of pain is psychological, our worry, fretting and anger. I think the more aware we are, the greater the space we have to see such things as thoughts w/ only power we feed them and we can take things as they come without added baggage.

Edited May 28, 2013 by thelerner

[Mal]

We battle with the mind. Once that is defeated then all is One. Look closely at why you are not happy - look at your mind, its running the show ! Question your mind and every thought - its amazing !

 

Slight edit so to remove names, still, Thank You, for you presence _/\_

Edited May 28, 2013 by Mal Stainkey

[gentlewind]

the lerner made some good points about suffering and pain coming in a multitude of ways.

 

My auntie suffered for many years after the death of her daughter after giving birth to her grandson, she never recovered. The pain, suffering and grief never left her face. How do you recover from such a human tragedy ? She didn't. But she also never burdened people with her heartache. She lived her days keeping her pain to herself. A brave and noble lady who lived until she was 95, so it was about 50 years of suffering for my auntie.

 

What kept her going was her love for her family and grandchildren. She could have become bitter like so many people do, I have a friend who rages at g_d for the death of his cousin many years ago - he even blamed g_d for my cancer ! I told him he was being stupid as their was no one to blame. But again its a part of the human condition the blame game - utilised by legal vultures to make money !

 

A dear friend of mine has addiction problems - drugs and drink, his suffering and pain far outweighs mine. He has good health (well not anymore due to his addictions, but in comparison to me he has), age on his side; and yet he is in hell - all of his own making.

 

I befriended cancer in 2003, I invited it into my life and we embarked upon one heck of a journey. I met some wonderful people during my four months in hospital, laughed with the nursing staff and trainee doctors - not with my surgeon as he was too stern ! I learnt how to walk again at 44. I spent a lot time practising patience due to S Pouch. My wife left me a month after my return home when I could barely walk down the stairs ! I was attacked by my step son(he was drunk) and luckily avoided being killed - his choice of target was important and he chose my face.

 

In 2005 I met the woman who became my wife, my Angel. My relationship with my daughter truly blossomed (she'd been a mummy's girl), she chose to live with me when my wife left me ! My wife had given her the choice and my daughter stayed with me. So cancer gave me so much more than people assumed it took. It was a win win situation.

 

And yes I suffered and came close to suicide, but I battled through. I want to give thanks to my daughter, Mum and wife as well as my excellent team of Invisible Helpers for their part in my making it. I know I am never alone -well hopefully at certain times ! My conditions are like add-ons, you know like the add-ons for your browser. When you know how to use the add-ons for your benefit then BINGO - its rock n roll time !!! Also as one of my favorite actors used to say, 'A man has to know his limitations'.

 

I know this body cannot run a marathon, so I don't entertain that notion. The mind doesn't taunt me because I've made that particular add-on work in my favor. I am a work in progress, but hey, its great fun !

 

So thanks thelerner for taking us away from physical pain and suffering. What great opportunities we are presented with to aid us on our Journey.

 

Each one of us is a vital drop of water in the infinite Ocean of Consciousness.

 

Namaste,

 

gentlewind

[gentlewind]

learn never to get sick

cat, almost impossible due to the toxic state of the food we eat, water we drink, clothes we wear, our furniture etc etc - then their is the air we breathe which is heavily polluted ! We are also affected by electrical equipment - wifi is a bad 'un, but in all honesty remaining in good health is not something we can learn. Most of us are ill, some to a minor degree others high up the scale.

 

The human body is under attack from every angle.

 

But we can still love and laugh and dance, and enjoy the birds singing.

 

Please You Tube Barrie Trower and watch some of his videos to do with the harmful effects of microwaves and cordless equipment. Harrowing what is happening to our bodies, especial in regards to fertility.

 

Namaste,

 

gentlewind

[sree]

Learned or not, humans get sick. There's no choice. I've heard it said, being in pain is not a choice, but suffering is. There's a trick to it, you can be in pain and not suffer. Most of us can do it for a little while, especially when its not too intense, way harder when its intense and long.

 

No choice in getting sick? What does that imply? Helplessness? Are we neither accountable for our unhealthy way of life nor responsible for the pestilence we bring upon ourselves? Do you think cancers are as natural as roses and arthritis as God-given as rainbows?

 

Pain and suffering are not two separable things. To experience bodily pain and choose not to suffer is to drive a wedge between your body and your heart. If you can be that brutal to yourself, you lose sensitivity to all pain, be it in other people, the animals or the earth. And heartlessness is the most horrifying of all human diseases.

Edited May 28, 2013 by sree

[sree]

cat, almost impossible due to the toxic state of the food we eat, water we drink, clothes we wear, our furniture etc etc - then their is the air we breathe which is heavily polluted ! We are also affected by electrical equipment - wifi is a bad 'un, but in all honesty remaining in good health is not something we can learn. Most of us are ill, some to a minor degree others high up the scale.

 

The human body is under attack from every angle.

 

You've got it right. So what is the right response?

 

But we can still love and laugh and dance, and enjoy the birds singing.

 

The way Emperor Nero fiddled and sang while Rome burned?

 

Please You Tube Barrie Trower and watch some of his videos to do with the harmful effects of microwaves and cordless equipment. Harrowing what is happening to our bodies, especial in regards to fertility.

 

I would rather seek the Tao of dying. It will be like a lifeboat for all who want to bail out without suffering the pain of a toxi reality.

[sree]

learn never to get sick

 

I feel like a dad pleading with his daughter to not run away with a cad.

[gentlewind]

You've got it right. So what is the right response?

Be vigilant in all that you do. Check what ingredients are in our food, their are plenty of questionable additives and preservatives - and beware of artificial sweeteners, Aspartame especially. Tip of the day - avoid diet drinks! The water you drink is it fluoridated - if so don't drink. Check your shampoos and toothpastes for their ingredients, in some shampoos you will find brake fluid ! In short educate yourself as to what is safe, but beware its a big job - welcome to hazard hell !

The way Emperor Nero fiddled and sang while Rome burned?

hmm........sometimes I worry about you sree !

I would rather seek the Tao of dying. It will be like a lifeboat for all who want to bail out without suffering the pain of a toxi reality.

seeking ! is for fools ! Look within.

 

Namaste, gentlewind

[三江源]

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Edited April 4, 2015 by 三江源

[thelerner]

Ok, so the tao of dying is first of all accept the body is a temporary home, subject to toxins as well as subject to out mindset and programming.. maybe subject to toxins BECAUSE of our mindset and programming..

 

and to be as loving and joyful as gentlewind is a wonderful thing to be in the face of physical challenges.

 

The tao of dying .. doesnt it involve the fact that only the body dies?

 

Learn to never get sick means to never get sick in the spiritual sense.

I like this but I think most spiritual seekers even advanced ones go through a dark night period akin to spiritual sickness. In the process of questioning and sorting out what is truth, its almost inevitable to reach a desolate wasteland at some point, but it can be pushed through to the other side where life's miraculous.

 

For some people its the dark night, a shattering phenomena, like the loss of loved one or hitting absolute bottom that pushes them towards enlightenment.

Edited May 28, 2013 by thelerner

[sree]

Ok, so the tao of dying is first of all accept the body is a temporary home, subject to toxins as well as subject to out mindset and programming.. maybe subject to toxins BECAUSE of our mindset and programming..

 

To regard your body as a temporary home is to infer a whole bunch of beliefs (i.e. mindsets and programming) about what you are. Do you believe that after the body is junked, you are going Home? Even if that is true, you still have to get through the bad part – the dying of the body through old age and disease. The Tao of dying has to side-step all that ugly mess.

 

and to be as loving and joyful as gentlewind is a wonderful thing to be in the face of physical challenges.

 

Gentlewind and I are in a poker game and I am calling his bluff. I am not saying that he is deliberately lying to me. I think he is lying to himself. This is nothing unusual or diabolical because telling lies is our way of life and we are all lying to ourselves, as well as, to one another all the time.

 

The tao of dying .. doesnt it involve the fact that only the body dies?

 

The Tao of dying involves coming to terms with and debunking the mindset that we have become immortal spiritual inhabitants of temporal corporeal bodies. This mindset gets us stuck with the body and forces us to suffer its demise.

 

Learn to never get sick means to never get sick in the spiritual sense.

 

Spirituality, as we understand and talk about it, is a superstition. You are welcome to challenge me on this statement. But if you do, be prepared to defend your beliefs in ghosts and fairies.

 

Learn never to get sick means never to get sick in every sane sense – body, mind and heart.

Edited May 28, 2013 by sree

[gentlewind]

To regard your body as a temporary home is to infer a whole bunch of beliefs (i.e. mindsets and programming) about what you are. Do you believe that after the body is junked, you are going Home? Even if that is true, you still have to get through the bad part – the dying of the body through old age and disease. The Tao of dying has to side-step all that ugly mess.

Knowing that your body is temporary is also a part of the Truth relating to death/transition. Their is no bad part in the process of dying, maybe in your mind their is sree, but some of us realize the nonsense of this mind set. The Tao of dying is that their is no dying as no one actually dies.

My Dad left his body peacefully. Their was no ugliness or mess. Just the magical Dance of what is.

Gentlewind and I are in a poker game and I am calling his bluff. I am not saying that he is deliberately lying to me. I think he is lying to himself. This is nothing unusual or diabolical because telling lies is our way of life and we are all lying to ourselves, as well as, to one another all the time.

Poker game sree ! I don't play games ! Your on your own their. So play away inside your head sree, and bluff all you desire. Its a solo game of poker your engaged in.

As for being a liar - I am guilty of this in YOUR mind only sree, maybe you wish it so. I am happy for you, if this comforts you. I do not lie, not even to myself.

 

I speak and write the Truth. Every word I have written in this thread, and the others is True.

 

Namaste,

 

gentlewind

[sree]

A couple of good documentaries both fit the subject matter of this thread nicely.

 

I've watched it twice and cannot rule out a third viewing !

 

The Afterlife Investigations - The Scole Experiment

 

I've also watched The Scole Experiment twice, and again, a third viewing may be in order.

 

How come you reject religions and yet believe in ghosts, spirits and the afterlife?

 

If the Scole Experiment proves the existence of departed spirits, what about documented exorcisms of demonic possessions? Do they prove the existence of the Devil?

[thetaoiseasy]

...

Edited March 24, 2014 by thetaoiseasy

[sree]

Knowing that your body is temporary is also a part of the Truth relating to death/transition.

 

Death of the body is a transition? Transition of what? There is only the body and it rots.

 

Their is no bad part in the process of dying, maybe in your mind their is sree, but some of us realize the nonsense of this mind set. The Tao of dying is that their is no dying as no one actually dies.

 

No one actually dies, you say. This is what the Buddha taught but I don't think that is what you mean. The Buddha taught that the person, in the form of the body, is an illusion. Therefore, no one actually dies and there is only the body that dies You, on the other hand, believe that the person is real and goes Home to continue existing in a supernatural paranormal way after the body dies.

 

My Dad left his body peacefully. Their was no ugliness or mess. Just the magical Dance of what is.

 

We pray that all bodies shutdown peacefully and painlessly. This is a small thing to ask for after a life of misery. More often than not, this prayer is not answered.

 

Poker game sree ! I don't play games ! Your on your own their. So play away inside your head sree, and bluff all you desire. Its a solo game of poker your engaged in.

 

Nobody is on his own. We are in each others' head posing in costumes fashioned by the mind to play a game like two dogs tugging furiously at a rag - you pulling to one side and I the other.

 

As for being a liar - I am guilty of this in YOUR mind only sree, maybe you wish it so. I am happy for you, if this comforts you. I do not lie, not even to myself.

 

Do you think that lying is a bad thing to do? In nature, predators sneak up on their prey. Both wear camouflage to avoid detection. Only humans take pride in not telling lies. Which is truly bad? To lie without knowing, or to know that you do not lie?

 

I speak and write the Truth. Every word I have written in this thread, and the others is True.

 

You have not given me any reason to believe that you would knowingly tell a lie. You have told the truth as you saw it. So do the Dalai Lama and the Pope. Only crooked politicians are capable of knowingly telling a lie.

[gentlewind]

gentlewind, you have an amazing golden aura. thank you for posting on this forum and wish you the best in your recovery process.

I hope that I am able to be of some benefit, and truly appreciate your lovely words thetaoiseasy

 

I have a plan for improving my health, Mother Nature is benefiting me with turmeric capsules(and for my wife too), and I am going to try and consciously bring about a reversal of my chronic health through meditation and visualization; I have nothing to lose !!!

 

Many Blessings to You.

 

Namaste,

 

gentlewind

[gentlewind]

How come you reject religions and yet believe in ghosts, spirits and the afterlife?

 

If the Scole Experiment proves the existence of departed spirits, what about documented exorcisms of demonic possessions? Do they prove the existence of the Devil?

sree, my my !!! Always treading the side of the shaded side of the road, time to take a chance and dance in the Sun's Beautiful rays.

 

Ghosts - spirits and the Afterlife all 'existed' well before religions appeared. Seeing my Gran in my bedroom when I was 12 was a pivotal moment in my Life, feeling her Love and being bathed in her Light was so beautiful. Fear death - NEVER !

 

Their is SO much we don't know about Life never mind death ! We live very limited and boxed in lives sree ! Exhibit One 'Your honor' - demonic spirits. We've been conditioned through the christian religion - especially the roman catholic 'superstore' to believe in 'demons'. So most do, too afraid to question and to research this for themselves. Lazy people. No wonder we live in a world which is built on FEAR. I have worked in mental health and have seen behaviour which the novice would say was 'demonic' - when in fact they were witnessing a seizure. My wife has witnessed strange phenomena, like her mother being pinned up against a wall by an invisible force; but she doesn't label it 'demonic'. We simply don't know very much about anything in reality, and religion has held us back.

 

 

So ! No their is no devil (evil + d = devil & good - o = g_d).

 

Namaste,

 

gentlewind

[gentlewind]

Death of the body is a transition? Transition of what? There is only the body and it rots.

My NDE tells me otherwise. Death is a transition. Our consciousness leaves the physical vehicle which then returns to the ground. When you sleep and you dream - everything you experience is created by you. We are not the body.

No one actually dies, you say. This is what the Buddha taught but I don't think that is what you mean. The Buddha taught that the person, in the form of the body, is an illusion. Therefore, no one actually dies and there is only the body that dies You, on the other hand, believe that the person is real and goes Home to continue existing in a supernatural paranormal way after the body dies.

The consciousness returns Home sree. We are not the body. We are not the mind, thoughts, feelings or emotions. The mind is our keyboard - so to speak. The 'person' is the mind, an Illusion. Their is no 'person'.

We pray that all bodies shutdown peacefully and painlessly. This is a small thing to ask for after a life of misery. More often than not, this prayer is not answered.

How do you know its not answered! Each individual's Life is unique, their equation is unique. The Source answers all 'prayers' as Life unfolds in its Mysterious Way.

 

We are not as wise as we would like to beLIEve.

Nobody is on his own. We are in each others' head posing in costumes fashioned by the mind to play a game like two dogs tugging furiously at a rag - you pulling to one side and I the other.

Everything is perfect because 'it is' what is. Reality.

Do you think that lying is a bad thing to do? In nature, predators sneak up on their prey. Both wear camouflage to avoid detection. Only humans take pride in not telling lies. Which is truly bad? To lie without knowing, or to know that you do not lie?

Lying is bad because it is avoiding the truth. Of course I've lied, everyone probably has. We even have a good lie called a 'white lie'. Cute aren't we !

Animals live in a tougher environment than us soft humans sree, they have camouflage for a reason ! Soldiers do too - which tells you a lot about the true nature of war. By the way sree, I'm ex-military. As were my Dad and brothers. I speak from experience. War is for fools. Soldiers are not heroes. See Dr Kissinger for viewpoint on soldiers, not very nice. But 'they' have us policing ourselves and killing people we don't even know !

You have not given me any reason to believe that you would knowingly tell a lie. You have told the truth as you saw it. So do the Dalai Lama and the Pope. Only crooked politicians are capable of knowingly telling a lie.

The dalai lama and the pope just promote the propaganda of their brand of religion - a far cry from the Truth. I have no time for either.

My Journey with Cancer is the Truth, not as I saw it sree but as I lived it. And I even have witnesses ! Medical papers too, even photographs of my tumors and polyps. Gruesome my wife calls them, art is what I say ! Want to see my stomach and the scars from surgery ? The peculiar 'tucked' in 4 inch 'hole' ? Or spend 5 hours each night with me as I empty my S Pouch. And sree I wake up each day knowing I may have another battle on my hands, but I adore Life and Dance(for you cat!), sing and laugh at every opportunity.

 

Blessings to All who read this thread - page 30 !!! Wow !!!

 

Who mentioned poker - LOL !!! One card game I've never played for money - only matchsticks with my Dad! Dominoes anyone !!!

 

Some Bill Hicks (one of natural doctor's!!!)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SlrKW7fh_Bo

 

Namaste,

 

gentlewind

 

Namaste,

 

gentlewind