An Altar for Sree

[zerostao]

i used wordsworth, goethe, and van gogh for illustrative purposes only as an altar to nature from a western philosophy pov.

i went with poets and an artist, an artist you guys dont fully appreciate, but its ok.

i am not against alcohol and enjoy sipping on my immortal wine from time to time, but i digress.

as far as finding Tao, it remains the mystery of mysteries. it is also paradox,

so how do you philosophers take on paradox?

i am thinking there is going to be a divide on Te as well.

my brand of Taoism is very basic, i get alot of mileage out of wu wei and ziran and common sense.

are we sticking with Lao Tzu only?

becoz my Tao is more than Lao Tzu

 

edit> i am a spiritual taoist, so maybe, i am disqualified from the start

Edited April 22, 2013 by zerostao

[Stosh]

A glass of wine is hedonism? Let's examine this. Let's say we gather for worship once a week. But then, it could become a daily affair. A glass a day is hedonism?

The issue I am bringing up is about the symbolism. I like a glass of red wine too.Christianity uses wine, others abstain, A breathing exercise might replace consumption of an item, and be more in line with traditionalists.

[Stosh]

Why hollow? You don't think Flowing Hands is sincere? He committed his whole life to Taoism.

if he is or isn't is not for me to dispense judgement on. Besides , a person can be entirely sincere and also very wrong.I was just addressing why a person might legitimately balk for a reason other than unjustified

fear.

[rene]

As a Philosophical Daoist, I want to worship something. I need to worship something. It's a powerful calling that comes through whenever I read the Tao Te Ching. ...

 

Ah.. there is the heart of the matter. (-:

 

When that which comes through The Laozi resonates so powerfully it's almost like we're compelled to do something, anything, with what we feel. It may come through slowly for some, quickly for others, and instantaneously for a few... but, imo, eventually it does come through and what we choose to do with it when it gets to our individual tipping point can vary greatly.

 

If you want to keep the resonance somewhat confined it can be focused through a specific tradition/ritual/dogma. It doesn't matter if the 'altar' is chinese taoist, philosophical taoist, a statue of buddha, a christian cross or a menorah or any other sacred object or perimetered space; what does matter is that the resonance has a focus, a container, a place to experience and somewhat control what is felt.

 

This is why I cannot help you build your altar, sree. My natural way is to let the resonance expand to its own shape and form, and I cannot perceive its limits or boundaries.

 

warm regards

Edited April 22, 2013 by rene

[Stosh]

i used wordsworth, goethe, and van gogh for illustrative purposes only as an altar to nature from a western philosophy pov.i went with poets and an artist, an artist you guys dont fully appreciate, but its ok.i am not against alcohol and enjoy sipping on my immortal wine from time to time, but i digress.as far as finding Tao, it remains the mystery of mysteries. it is also paradox,so how do you philosophers take on paradox?i am thinking there is going to be a divide on Te as well.my brand of Taoism is very basic, i get alot of mileage out of wu wei and ziran and common sense.are we sticking with Lao Tzu only?becoz my Tao is more than Lao Tzu edit> i am a spiritual taoist, so maybe, i am disqualified from the start

Keep your friends close and your enemies even closer.

Doesn't one of taoist texts suggest one not surround themselves with Yesmen ?

[Stosh]

Frankly though, I see the tao as fact of the matter, not as a spiritual epiphany. It has spiritual repercussions anyway, but the tao doesn't care. Zippo concern and since you have some stuff in mind for your rituals I should leve you to it as well.

[zerostao]

stosh, we are often on the same page. and i feel the same about rene. i joined in this thread becoz sree is new to me, and his postings interested me. i used to post some in the ddj section here. and on various philosophy as you know.

i still kinda like bradley's appearance and reality but it may be too metaphysical for ya'll. plato was metaphysical too, and so on.

even nietzsche, altho many overlook the obvious.

[ChiDragon]

Which word do you not understand?

 

Your posts reinforce the idea that Tao is something separate, that needs to be found. Here's an example.

 

http://thetaobums.com/topic/27965-help-me-understand/page-3#entry424414

 

informer24 said he was looking for tao. you said you'd help him find it.

 

Do you, ChiDragon, think Tao is something that needs looking for?

 

 

Oh...I was responding to imformer24....in the other thread.

ChiDragon I am looking for tao but Im more of a tactile learner so I try to understand and relate things by doing. By doing I'll culitvate the sensitivity to the "true" message maybe or reach understanding better.

 

 

Edited April 23, 2013 by ChiDragon

[sree]

The Tao doesn't care? What's that suppose to mean?

 

Why do you reinforce the idea that Tao is something separate to be found? (as Rene would ask.)

[ChiDragon]

It is because that the definition of Tao is defined in the Tao Te Ching which cannot be ignored in the course of studying the TTC scholarly. Somebody else might be interested, therefore, we must have an answer to be available.

Edited April 23, 2013 by ChiDragon

[Stosh]

The Tao doesn't care? What's that suppose to mean? Why do you reinforce the idea that Tao is something separate to be found? (as Rene would ask.)

I am more of the opinion, similar to Cd's on the definition, but taking it to be that tao equates more to the setting of emptiness in which things can be manifest,, 'finding 'equating more to opening up to groking the quale of it.

It seems that renae, zero, yourself see it in quite a different light. (I don't get Cd's stance clearly, maybe its a blend and yet simpler)

Edited April 23, 2013 by Stosh

[rene]

It is because that the definition of Tao is defined in the Tao Te Ching which cannot be ignored in the course of studying the TTC scholarly. Somebody else might be interested, therefore, we must have an answer to be available.

 

and that, sree, is how 'containers' can be harmful.

 

warm regards

[rene]

CD - thank you for replying to my question.

 

warm regards

[sree]

It is because that the definition of Tao is defined in the Tao Te Ching which cannot be ignored in the course of studying the TTC scholarly. Somebody else might be interested, therefore, we must have an answer to be available.

 

That post of mine was meant for stosh who said the Tao doesn't care, as though it is a separate entity he relates with.

 

In your case, I understand your take on the Tao based on your reading of the Chinese text. But the western mind objects to separation because of an emotional need for oneness. I hope this doesn't trip up our discussion.

[sree]

and that, sree, is how 'containers' can be harmful.

 

warm regards

 

What containers? Please clarify.

[rene]

What containers? Please clarify.

 

Clarifying would only be re-stating ideas in my posts over two threads, which, if you didn't read or understand them then I seriously doubt any of my words would make sense to you now... so... nevah mind. (-:

 

warm regards

[Stosh]

That post of mine was meant for stosh who said the Tao doesn't care, as though it is a separate entity he relates with. In your case, I understand your take on the Tao based on your reading of the Chinese text. But the western mind objects to separation because of an emotional need for oneness. I hope this doesn't trip up our discussion.

If the setting of the universe, and the inviolable rules of it , defined by the context,is consistant with an 'entity' for you, you got me right, but I wouldn't call it such. Not caring is anthropomorphic description, nothing to pray to, no possibility of gaining favor, nothing to blame, no intent or design. Edited April 23, 2013 by Stosh

[sree]

If the setting of the universe, and the inviolable rules of it , defined by the context,is consistant with an 'entity' for you, you got me right, but I wouldn't call it such. Not caring is anthropomorphic description, nothing to pray to, no possibility of gaining favor, nothing to blame, no intent or design.

 

The western perception of the universe is inconsistent with Chinese cosmology. AS such, I can never be sure I get anyone right. And when rene throws containers into the mix, it really muddies up the soup.

 

You know what her containers are?

[Stosh]

I am thinking it means ' mental boxes' as in free thought ' outside the box', but I may have missed her meaning as well. Goodnight either way , gotta get up early.

[sree]

I am more of the opinion, similar to Cd's on the definition, but taking it to be that tao equates more to the setting of emptiness in which things can be manifest,, 'finding 'equating more to opening up to groking the quale of it.

It seems that renae, zero, yourself see it in quite a different light. (I don't get Cd's stance clearly, maybe its a blend and yet simpler)

 

Chances are, none of us sees the Tao the myriad ways the others see it. I can't even see it the way I am suppose to see it. What if I say that you guys are seeing things?

[sree]

I am thinking it means ' mental boxes' as in free thought ' outside the box', but I may have missed her meaning as well. Goodnight either way , gotta get up early.

 

Get up early for what? I thought we are all people with nothing better to do.

[sree]

Do you, ChiDragon, think Tao is something that needs looking for?

 

I think it needs looking for. Anyone who doesn't think it needs looking for either knows there is no such thing or has found it.

 

This puts me in a bad spot. I don't know what it is that needs looking for. Doesn't that sound crazy to you?

 

What about you? Do you know what you're supposed to be looking for? Or you are not looking because you've found it?

[rene]

No reason to look for what cant be lost.

[zerostao]

" But the western mind objects to separation because of an emotional need for oneness. I hope this doesn't trip up our discussion. "

 

http://thetaobums.com/topic/18839-unity/

[sree]

No reason to look for what cant be lost.

 

Your backbone? Or is it your skull?