An Altar for Sree

[Stosh]

I think I fit a description for philosophical taoist , and though you may disagree whether I fit the existing definitions, (or maybe just your own definitions ) I assure you I do .

I do not, I repeat Not ,seek any divine revelations . As far as I can see there is no "divine" " anything ! " ( unless one considers ALL to be divine .. which leaves 'divine' to be meaningless.) and there is nothing that needs requires or generates worship from me. Please refrain from boxing me in so much with your own definition of yourself regarding this. Go ahead and speak your mind about yourself , but you aint all philosophical Taoists. Here and there its fine to go and speak for the grouping but said repeatedly as if it were some fact , begs re-clarification.

And on the home turf of China the ttc has its own fair share of varied interps , its not like the country is of some monolithic opinion, its not. You or I can google up hundreds of translations for the first chapter alone in a minute or two, many of them -the renderings of native Chinese speakers.

Cd doesnt require my defense but if you are going to mock him you should at least do him the respect of making a sound argument to go with it.

 

Unless its true- stop saying it.

Edited April 25, 2013 by Stosh

[sree]

I think I fit a description for philosophical taoist , and though you may disagree whether I fit the existing definitions, (or maybe just your own definitions ) I assure you I do .

 

You do fit my description of the philosophical Taoist who is content with your Taoist philosophy and are not religious. There is no disagreement here.

 

I do not, I repeat Not ,seek any divine revelations . As far as I can see there is no "divine" " anything ! " ( unless one considers ALL to be divine .. which leaves 'divine' to be meaningless.) and there is nothing that needs requires or generates worship from me.

 

Nobody is forcing you to seek anything. Don't get upset.

 

Please refrain from boxing me in so much with your own definition of yourself regarding this. Go ahead and speak your mind about yourself , but you aint all philosophical Taoists. Here and there its fine to go and speak for the grouping but said repeatedly as if it were some fact , begs re-clarification.

 

You are correct. I am not all philosophical Taoists but just the devotional kind which is a fact. I am not boxing you into anything. You stay in your own box. Not all men relate with women with the same intensity also. Some are content with a non-exclusive philosophical tie-up and sleeps around while others, like me, are devoted and pair up for life with a soul-mate.

 

And on the home turf of China the ttc has its own fair share of varied interps , its not like the country is of some monolithic opinion, its not. You or I can google up hundreds of translations for the first chapter alone in a minute or two, many of them -the renderings of native Chinese speakers.

Cd doesnt require my defense but if you are going to mock him you should at least do him the respect of making a sound argument to go with it.

 

Why do you feel I am mocking anybody? Please frame your charge clearly and give me a chance to answer it. You obviously are offended by what I said. I can see that. My statements displayed in this public forum define me in the same way the black garb of the Hasedic Jew defines him in Yonkers. Do you think it is fair of me to tell that Jew that by dressing the way he does he is mocking me?

 

Unless its true- stop saying it.

 

It's true as far as I am concerned. It may not be true to you. Just because it is not true to you, I must stop saying it? I am aware that this is the internet and that you may not share my American values of freedom of expression and multi-culturalism. Be that as it may, I am quite prepared to defer to your sensitivities and won't speak my mind if my convictions incense you.

Edited April 25, 2013 by sree

[Stosh]

If one says what they know to be untrue

, they have on some level admitted to themselves they cant respond with the 'real facts'.

If a person wont admit a sound argument to change their mind , they are promoting their own ignorance

So its not to please others that someone should choose to speak true.

It is just in ones own expedient self interest ,

heck it can even be a matter of ones pride, that they feel demeaned being pushed into untruth.

 

But the Tao Te Ching is a simple book made complex by foreign wind-finders and shadow-hunters

 

Here is the line that I read as mocking in response to

 

To find the wind and catch her shadow are not an easy thing to do.

 

Saying that one has f***ed up what is simple (because they are foreign) and simultaneously use their own terms to describe them disparagingly especially when that person has spent so much time trying to uncover the the book to new audience in the most correct fashion he can ,,,, reads as mocking..

maybe you meant it otherwise ,

, Im willing to accept that as true, and Im willing to just walk away to see what is vindicated , but blasting some of the most reasonable folks that post on here and my own nationality repeatedly -does rub me the wrong way.
Time passes , the blood cools

[sree]

If one says what they know to be untrue

, they have on some level admitted to themselves they cant respond with the 'real facts'.

 

You are making an accusation. You are calling me a liar. State the lie and prove it.

 

Traditionally, in the west, when you call a man a liar, you insult his honor and is obliged to pay for it with your life in a duel. Does it bother you that, these days, you can go around scandalizing other people with no sense of accountability?

 

If a person wont admit a sound argument to change their mind , they are promoting their own ignorance

So its not to please others that someone should choose to speak true.

It is just in ones own expedient self interest ,

heck it can even be a matter of ones pride, that they feel demeaned being pushed into untruth.

 

But the Tao Te Ching is a simple book made complex by foreign wind-finders and shadow-hunters

 

Here is the line that I read as mocking in response to

 

To find the wind and catch her shadow are not an easy thing to do.

 

So, you read something not directed at you personally, inserted yourself in the conversation and accuse me of mocking you.

Do you read Chinese? If what I said was untrue, I could be asked to explain my point of view. It may not be convincing but only someone - like a Chidragon, Gia Fu Feng or Derek Lin - who can read Chinese can make that judgment and choose to agree or disagree. If you cannot read Chinese and not in a position to assess my opinion, then yours is an irrational emotional response not worthy of comment.

 

Saying that one has f***ed up what is simple (because they are foreign) and simultaneously use their own terms to describe them disparagingly especially when that person has spent so much time trying to uncover the the book to new audience in the most correct fashion he can ,,,, reads as mocking..

maybe you meant it otherwise ,

, Im willing to accept that as true, and Im willing to just walk away to see what is vindicated , but blasting some of the most reasonable folks that post on here and my own nationality repeatedly -does rub me the wrong way.

Time passes , the blood cools

 

You obviously have issues. This doesn't mean we can't talk this over. Why don't you calm down and state your case? We don't have to agree with each other but let's try to see what is it that you find disagreeable.

[Stosh]

^{.I already made my case,}

^{Youve been snapping at folks who dont deserve it.}

^{Im already calm ,I dare you to match me.}

[Wu Ming Jen]

Is sree setting up his alter of hate here? So I would suggest 1 bowl full of stagnant water, 1 bowl of rotten fruit, 1 bowl of un-acceptance of others and a statue of himself that should do, simple and straightforward. Mentalist put there mind over nature and the tao de ching for that matter.sree you should seek a true teacher before you embarrass yourself any more unless this state of existence is normal for your experience then hang on for dear life. Direct experience makes all the greatest words ever written useless. when you cross the river you get rid of the boat it served its purpose and is no longer useful

[shanlung]

Is sree setting up his alter of hate here? So I would suggest 1 bowl full of stagnant water, 1 bowl of rotten fruit, 1 bowl of un-acceptance of others and a statue of himself that should do, simple and straightforward. Mentalist put there mind over nature and the tao de ching for that matter.sree you should seek a true teacher before you embarrass yourself any more unless this state of existence is normal for your experience then hang on for dear life. Direct experience makes all the greatest words ever written useless. when you cross the river you get rid of the boat it served its purpose and is no longer useful

 

Ha ha ha!

 

Yes! I should say a pink pacifier should be on that altar as well.

 

Sree expertise seems to be putting words into others mouth, words conveniently like straw dogs of his creation that he then loved to pull down.

 

What he said of me amused me.

 

You sound defeated...like a guy badly burnt by his one-sided love for a woman who does not reciprocate. In some cases, the beloved woman is not aware of her admirer's affection. But the Tao knows, and it treats devoted Daoists like straw dogs meant for the fires of Daoist Hell.

 

The amount of innuendoes that he can craft into a few sentences above? No doubt to make himself wiserest than all others.

 

I was on the verge of chucking him into my ignore bin. I seen enough to do that and not waste anymore time.

Let him be contented with his bowl of stagnant water, a bowl of rotten fruit and a statue of himself, together with his pink pacifier.

 

Idiot on the Path

[Birch]

Is this ALL about sree?

My next not-concierge suggestion (but I'm sure it will be taken any which way people wish) is that this thread is not very helpful to anyone much.

 

Lots of bickering.

 

I suppose if everyone is enjoying it.

 

But what if they're not?

 

I'm gettting weird squiggly/spikey vibes off the whole thing. It's like an incoherent interference. There ya go.

 

--2cts--

[Wu Ming Jen]

I take it as you have a lot of compassion K So I will not take a pink pacifier away from someone constantly crying for one. Just saying

[Birch]

I have no idea what you mean about the pink pacifier but I still don't feel good about the vibe.

 

Could you explain?

 

--not concierge--2cts--personal--opinion- that should do it---

[Wu Ming Jen]

Yes, the vibe is not good I agree, pacifier is part of shanlung post not directed at or for you. I see a lot of energy wasted, manipulated and misused as well.

[dawei]

It seems Rene's alter for Sree turned into a lynch rope. Sorry to see it go this way.

 

For Rene, and her hope of something useful for another member: No good deed should go unpunished. It was a good idea at some point.

[Birch]

Maybe this

[sree]

It seems Rene's alter for Sree turned into a lynch rope. Sorry to see it go this way.

 

For Rene, and her hope of something useful for another member: No good deed should go unpunished. It was a good idea at some point.

 

Lynching is done by a mob. I do feel that I am am being heckled by a mob crying for my neck.

 

Is sree setting up his alter of hate here? So I would suggest 1 bowl full of stagnant water, 1 bowl of rotten fruit, 1 bowl of un-acceptance of others and a statue of himself that should do, simple and straightforward. Mentalist put there mind over nature and the tao de ching for that matter.sree you should seek a true teacher before you embarrass yourself any more unless this state of existence is normal for your experience then hang on for dear life. Direct experience makes all the greatest words ever written useless. when you cross the river you get rid of the boat it served its purpose and is no longer useful

 

You, apparently, are part of the mob that find what I said upsetting. What happened to debate in a free society?

 

What he said of me amused me.

 

You sound defeated...like a guy badly burnt by his one-sided love for a woman who does not reciprocate. In some cases, the beloved woman is not aware of her admirer's affection. But the Tao knows, and it treats devoted Daoists like straw dogs meant for the fires of Daoist Hell.

 

The amount of innuendoes that he can craft into a few sentences above? No doubt to make himself wiserest than all others.

 

I was on the verge of chucking him into my ignore bin. I seen enough to do that and not waste anymore time.

Let him be contented with his bowl of stagnant water, a bowl of rotten fruit and a statue of himself, together with his pink pacifier.

 

You do sound defeated. This is a fact to me because that is how you come across based on what you said about the Tao. Look at your signature "Idiotic Taoist". That says a lot. You have self-effacing pretensions that reflect a conflicted relationship. One is either a Taoist at peace with the the eternal Tao or one is not. Rene said she has the Tao and never lost it, and Flowing Hands practices his Maoshan Taoism with consummate conviction. But you have nothing good to say about your relationship with the Tao.

Edited April 26, 2013 by sree

[sree]

I have no idea what you mean about the pink pacifier but I still don't feel good about the vibe.

 

Could you explain?

 

--not concierge--2cts--personal--opinion- that should do it---

 

Why don't you feel good, K? Is it because the vibe is discordant? Life is a river with twists and turns, sometimes a fury of whitewaters that is thrilling for some and troubling to others, and sometimes placid as it empties into a lake on the way through marshland to the sea. To feel good is to be pacified. Do you know the meaning now?

[Stosh]

Yes the thread is all about sree , she is stuck in a cycle of gaming

as described by robert byrne back in the 70's

in his book games people play.

In round one , the player (sree) tosses out some bait to lure in the patsy

(thats me in this case or anyone else who bites) ,

, then there are various rounds -innings of different themes like "the Martyr"

which is the one she is playing now ,

since yesterdays game of 'courtroom' wasnt going so well .

The goals are to 1) pat herself on the back, and 2) get attention.

He suggests that the way to help a games player get over their habits is

1) not cooperate with the games she is trying to play , and

2) uncover for her the 'cycle' of the game,

since its likely pervasive to other aspects of her life

interfering with productive interactions and real intimacy.

Like she says herself , whitewaters are thrilling

and to feel good she wants to be 'pacified' essentially -get a pacifier-

a THING that she can gain happiness from

as everyone already has heard , these kinds of sources of happiness

are transitory , so new games must get played , new patsys must be found.

and as she has already demonstrated , if a game is going bad

its time to switch gears.

She cant help it , thats how she has learned to interact.

So thats what it is, literally a physical 'altar' for sree.

Edited April 26, 2013 by Stosh

[ChiDragon]

可與之言而不與之言，失人
不可與之言而與之言，失言

The one who may be spoken to but not spoken to, lost the valuable one.　
The one who may not be spoken to but spoken to, wasted the valuable words.

[dawei]

Look at your signature "Idiotic Taoist". That says a lot. You have self-effacing pretensions that reflect a conflicted relationship. One is either a Taoist at peace with the the eternal Tao or one is not. Rene said she has the Tao and never lost it, and Flowing Hands practices his Maoshan Taoism with consummate conviction. But you have nothing good to say about your relationship with the Tao.

 

Hi Sree. There may be something lost in translation and the translation is often from words to our cognition of the words.

 

having said "Idiotic Taoist" is, IMO, either incredibly clever or incredibly insightful; I personally take it as both. It is about someone who has gone full circle (maybe more than once) and realizes that to attempt to know Tao is a journey of chasing one's tail. Once you realize you are chasing your own tail [in the pursuit of knowing Tao], at some point you simply realize the "Idiotic" Way...

 

It is not "nothing good to say about your relationship with Tao"; It is to say our feeble attempts to claim to say something about our relationship with Tao.

 

I do not claim to mean this is exactly the experience you write against, but I am just paraphrasing an understanding I can see.

 

Hope all is good

[Birch]

Why don't you feel good, K? Is it because the vibe is discordant? Life is a river with twists and turns, sometimes a fury of whitewaters that is thrilling for some and troubling to others, and sometimes placid as it empties into a lake on the way through marshland to the sea. To feel good is to be pacified. Do you know the meaning now?

You're playing with people in a dark manner. My impression of you is not positive. I'm not sure what you're bringing to the threads you're involved with. I'm questioning it. Are you trying on some sort of 'trickster' role?

[sree]

You're playing with people in a dark manner. My impression of you is not positive. I'm not sure what you're bringing to the threads you're involved with. I'm questioning it. Are you trying on some sort of 'trickster' role?

 

I am taking your response in and sitting with it, watching my response to yours, in Buddhist meditation.

 

What you say is true - to you. It is this truth that I must consider.

Edited April 26, 2013 by sree

[sree]

I do not claim to mean this is exactly the experience you write against, but I am just paraphrasing an understanding I can see.

 

Paraphrasing an understanding we can see is all we can do. May all of us accept each other's paraphrases without malice.

 

Personally, I feel that it is better to have each other to talk to - no matter how negative the conversation - than to have no one to talk to at all. This is why God created Eve.

 

You have no idea how much I love you all.

Edited April 26, 2013 by sree

[Reed]

as described by robert byrne back in the 70's

in his book games people play.

 

I suspect you may be confusing Eric Berne with the 'pool and billiards' author or maybe even Nucentz?

 

Seriously though, games people play is a classic book, IMO. I read it years ago along with other books of his on TA and they were quite influential in me going on to study psychology

Edited April 27, 2013 by Reed

[shanlung]

Look at your signature "Idiotic Taoist". That says a lot. You have self-effacing pretensions that reflect a conflicted relationship. One is either a Taoist at peace with the the eternal Tao or one is not. Rene said she has the Tao and never lost it, and Flowing Hands practices his Maoshan Taoism with consummate conviction. But you have nothing good to say about your relationship with the Tao.

 

Titles meant a lot to you!

If not grandiose enough, then coin yourself a grand title to cloak yourself in.

A kind of do-it-yourself Emperor New Clothings.

 

You should think of taking up taijichuan. I am sure with your deep insights and expertise, before you even finished a 3 months once a week course, you be no less than a Grandmaster of taijichuan.

Easily outranking me as I am merely a student.

 

In about everything I do, I am very happy to remain a student. I free to ask as I wished. With about all being so full of themselves and what they know and never having to learn no more, I happy to remain a student.

 

I have been using my handle as Idiotic Taoist, or Taoistic Idiot (which ever you chose on me) for about 20 years now. Maybe longer than the time you even realised that there is such a thingie as the Tao or Taoism.

 

And why you bother with this tired old set of beliefs?

 

Go create one of Sreeism.

Might be a better money spinner than whatever racket you are in.

And build an empire to have your own Gulfstream and fleets of RR.

Easy with the money you get by flogging off your Sree Altar to one and all.

No need to send that to fetch your minions and acolytes and PhD students and assist professorships.

They should wipe ashes on foreheads and trudge behind you singing glory to Sree or whatever you can conjure for them to chant.

 

Idiot on the Path

[sree]

Titles meant a lot to you!

If not grandiose enough, then coin yourself a grand title to cloak yourself in.

A kind of do-it-yourself Emperor New Clothings.

 

Not just titles; every move people make, every nuance is like a track on the trail in the jungle of life. I, too, am on the path and any trace left behind by other seekers of the Tao - be it a skeleton, a piece of torn clothing, a stain of fresh blood or a whole body trapped and frozen stiff in an icy crevasse - is a lesson to be learnt to assure my safe ascent up the mountain beyond the clouds to that Taoist Shrine of wisdom.

 

You should think of taking up taijichuan. I am sure with your deep insights and expertise, before you even finished a 3 months once a week course, you be no less than a Grandmaster of taijichuan.

Easily outranking me as I am merely a student.

 

Taijichuan was not mentioned in the Tao Te Ching. As a mortal, I have only one life the end of which is uncertain. I have no time to waste and must press on with my one mission in life: not to perish like an idiot on the path.

 

In about everything I do, I am very happy to remain a student. I free to ask as I wished. With about all being so full of themselves and what they know and never having to learn no more, I happy to remain a student.

 

Learning that does not culminate in the mastery of knowledge is like a tree that bears no fruit. Granted, there is no end to learning but this is neither an excuse for nor a defense of incompetence. "No one is perfect","we are only human" and other attitudes of this kind have no place in traditional Chinese culture that gave us the Tao Te Ching.

 

Mastery at self-cultivation is not to be taken lightly because it is a vital social responsibility of those upon whom the welfare of their fellowmen depends. People suffer when those bestowed the public trust (which is the mandate of Heaven) won't step up because they don't demand excellence of themselves as a ruler of a nation, the head of a family, the owner of an enterprise, or a professional doing his job.

 

You don't screw up and get away with it with an apology.

 

I have been using my handle as Idiotic Taoist, or Taoistic Idiot (which ever you chose on me) for about 20 years now. Maybe longer than the time you even realised that there is such a thingie as the Tao or Taoism.

 

And why you bother with this tired old set of beliefs?

 

Is it not obvious to you that both my attitude and my regard for the Tao Te Ching are different from yours? It is neither old nor a set of beliefs. It is the eternally young teacher of the truth.

 

Idiot on the Path

 

If that was an epitaph on your tombstone, what do you think it would say to a seeker of the Tao who came upon it on his way up the mountain?

Edited April 28, 2013 by sree

[Stosh]

I suspect you may be confusing Eric Berne with the 'pool and billiards' author or maybe even Nucentz? Seriously though, games people play is a classic book, IMO. I read it years ago along with other books of his on TA and they were quite influential in me going on to study psychology

I bow to your much more current memory, it is ideed eric berne m.d. ( I have a copy right here) and hope my read was not in much more error.

Loved that kind of stuff ages ago, TA could warrant thread of its own since it seems so different from Freudian stuff and so applicable it almost qualifies as alternative medicine was robert byrne the author of ode to a flea ? SWYMD?

Hmmm I should read that again too.

That is unless it Has become mainstream... anyway I need to reread it.

Edited April 27, 2013 by Stosh