bigu or Daoist low carb

[daoist]

I've identified as Daoist for many years, but always thought I could not marry my dietary philosophy (low carb paleo) with that of my Daoist philosophy of diet (traditional Chinese medicine). I'd googled the subject before and did come up with one lone voice one the internet, that of Kenneth Cohen (http://www.kennethcohen.com/). He spoke of three demons and avoiding grains. Being the only source of such ideas, I decided he might be... wrong. But the other day I googled again and found all kinds of things, particularly: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bigu_(avoiding_grains)

 

Now I find this a radical and delightful idea. I've embarked on a decidedly Atkin's style bigu way of life today and wonder if anyone else has heard of and/or experimented with bigu style diet?

[liminal_luke]

I don't pay a whole lot of attention to whether my various interests and proclivities conflict with each other prefering to give myself over to my passions willy-nilly. So I can't really speak to the question of whether it's particularly taoist to eat paleo, or particularly paleo to be taoist. All I know is that when I eat more or less paleo my blood pressure falls into the normal range, and when I commit to my taoist cultivation I feel happier and like I'm doing what I came here to do. And that's good enough for me.

[thelerner]

I've identified as Daoist for many years, but always thought I could not marry my dietary philosophy (low carb paleo) with that of my Daoist philosophy of diet (traditional Chinese medicine). I'd googled the subject before and did come up with one lone voice one the internet, that of Kenneth Cohen (http://www.kennethcohen.com/). He spoke of three demons and avoiding grains. Being the only source of such ideas, I decided he might be... wrong. But the other day I googled again and found all kinds of things, particularly: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bigu_(avoiding_grains)

 

Now I find this a radical and delightful idea. I've embarked on a decidedly Atkin's style bigu way of life today and wonder if anyone else has heard of and/or experimented with bigu style diet?

As I understand it, Kenneth Cohen is by no means alone, traditional Taoism was decidedly anti grain.

Bigu style diet? I thought bigu meant no food.

[eye_of_the_storm]

Bigu diet is excellent.

The immortal diet / path seems to have been...pure water, pure air, mountain herbs, greens, pine nuts, pine resin.

Things that grew naturally / with little human interference.

No animal products.

Diet I believe is a huge factor in spiritual + personal development + behaviour

I have at times been able to keep a really pure diet and experience days of mild blissful states and connection to the environment with "no work" (meditation etc)

It does take self control , discipline still... depending - when you notice the benefits + body adapts it is easy / natural / enjoyable.

You will have to remove blood lust, this fades with change in diet.

///

http://thetaobums.com/topic/24484-yoked-to-earth-a-treatise-on-corpse-demons-and-bigu/

Edited April 23, 2013 by White Wolf Running On Air

[BaguaKicksAss]

If you haven't read it yet, I strongly recommend this article: https://sites.google.com/site/delawareteasociety/yoked-to-earth-a-treatise-on-corpse-demons-and-bigu There are a couple of others around the net, but I don't remember the names of them offhand.

 

I ate this way 6-7 days per week for several years. It was not that difficult for me since I can't eat gluten/wheat anyways. It worked really well for me, right until I took up marathon running. Then I realized I needed more carbs than just yams and potatoes to pull that off.

 

I don't think it is that uncommon. Apparently the immortals ate this way.

 

There is also some interesting writings about the stove gods in relation to not eating grains. Also it was thought that you start to die slowly (as in a regular lifetime) once you start eating grains. However if you stop eating grains, then it helps health and longevity and so forth. I found this quite interesting, but I also read some interviews with various older chinese martial artists who lives into their 90's or past 100, and when asked what they eat, many of them said rice.

 

Some sources say beans are OK, while others say they count as one of the grains.

Edited April 23, 2013 by BaguaKicksAss

[Antares]

Also it was thought that you start to die slowly (as in a regular lifetime) once you start eating grains.

However if you stop eating grains, then it helps health and longevity and so forth

 

Yeah, but what about THIS guy here, what is he eating?

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FkMbMJ9JFaY

 

He was vegetarian.

Not eating grains is symbolic meaning in taoist texts. Grain was associated with "working in fields with peasants" (grain is main food in China and many people engaged in the work in fields) and the meaning is not to fall in mundane goals, feelings and emotions like all other people do. It means not to be attached to the mundane objects and does not mean dietary recommendation to avoid eating grains.

Paleo diet? It is your personal business. But I can not recall any genuine taoist or yogi who were eating meat.

But grain is the main food in monasteries in Asia.

Edited April 23, 2013 by Eugene

[baiqi]

Yes and no.

 

Bigu actually means "stop the grains" and some took it very seriously.

 

There are actually different diets/ ways of fasting in China... and this is true for taoists as well. Your interpretation may have some truth in it, but some people take it literally.

Bigu is not stoping to eat completely, from what I've seen: usually it's done for a period of time (months, years?), and people will eat very little. (Fruits, almonds and stuff like that)

 

As for vegetarianism, it is a prequisite to bigu.

[daoist]

http://thetaobums.com/topic/24484-yoked-to-earth-a-treatise-on-corpse-demons-and-bigu/

 

Thanks for this reference!

[hydrogen]

Yes and no.

 

Bigu actually means "stop the grains" and some took it very seriously.

 

Not really, "Bigu" means close the "valley", not "avoid the grain".

 

The translation is to "close the door", no more guests. It has nothing to do with diet.

[hydrogen]

If you haven't read it yet, I strongly recommend this article: https://sites.google.com/site/delawareteasociety/yoked-to-earth-a-treatise-on-corpse-demons-and-bigu

 

I won't trust that article. It can't even get the translation of "bigu" right.

 

I assume you can't read Chinese. I apologize if I'm wrong.

[baiqi]

Not really, "Bigu" means close the "valley", not "avoid the grain".

 

The translation is to "close the door", no more guests. It has nothing to do with diet.

Really？Well, you're wrong

 

It's 辟 bi4谷 gu3：stopping the cereals （谷 gu3 means valley...and cereals as well!) , literaly, not 闭 bi4 (closing, sealing)谷 gu3, same pinyin but totally different meaning.

 

So yes, it is about diet. Maybe metaphorically, but diet anyway.

Edited April 23, 2013 by baiqi

[hydrogen]

Really？Well, you're wrong

 

It's 辟 bi4谷 gu3：stopping the cereals （谷 gu3 means valley...and cereals as well!) , literaly, not 闭 bi4 (closing, sealing)谷 gu3, same pinyin but totally different meaning.

 

So yes, it is about diet. Maybe metaphorically, but diet anyway.

 

http://thetaobums.com/topic/12538-bigu/

 

Tao bums know better.

 

Now I think we're both right in a sense. it has nothing to do with avoiding grain.

[eye_of_the_storm]

The majority of the population has some adverse reaction to grains / wheat / gluten.

I'd say it has something to do with avoiding grains...

Google: Gluten and Skitzophrenia / mental disorders

http://celiacdisease.about.com/od/glutenintolerance/fr/Wheat-Belly-By-Dr-William-Davis.htm

 

The Dangers of Gluten

A recent large study in the Journal of the American Medical Association found that people with diagnosed, undiagnosed, and "latent" celiac disease or gluten sensitivity had a higher risk of death, mostly from heart disease and cancer. (i)

This study looked at almost 30,00 patients from 1969 to 2008 and examined deaths in three groups: Those with full-blown celiac disease, those with inflammation of their intestine but not full-blown celiac disease, and those with latent celiac disease or gluten sensitivity (elevated gluten antibodies but negative intestinal biopsy).

The findings were dramatic. There was a 39 percent increased risk of death in those with celiac disease, 72 percent increased risk in those with gut inflammation related to gluten, and 35 percent increased risk in those with gluten sensitivity but no celiac disease.

This is ground-breaking research that proves you don't have to have full-blown celiac disease with a positive intestinal biopsy (which is what conventional thinking tells us) to have serious health problems and complications--even death--from eating gluten.

Yet an estimated 99 percent of people who have a problem with eating gluten don't even know it. They ascribe their ill health or symptoms to something else--not gluten sensitivity, which is 100 percent curable.

And here's some more shocking news ...

Another study comparing the blood of 10,000 people from 50 years ago to 10,000 people today found that the incidences of full-blown celiac disease increased by 400 percent (elevated TTG antibodies) during that time period. (ii) If we saw a 400 percent increase in heart disease or cancer, this would be headline news. But we hear almost nothing about this. I will explain why I think that increase has occurred in a moment. First, let's explore the economic cost of this hidden epidemic.

More @ http://www.huffingtonpost.com/dr-mark-hyman/gluten-what-you-dont-know_b_379089.html

Even responsible for chronic fatigue, infertility ...many things

 

 

11 reasons why gluten and wheat should be avoided Gluten

1. Gluten causes gut inflammation in at least 80% of the population and another 30% of the population develops antibodies against gluten proteins in the gut. Furthermore, 99% of the population has the genetic potential to develop antibodies against gluten. Antibodies acting in the gut can actually be good news, because when the body doesn’t react against gluten right away, gluten proteins can enter the blood stream more easily, especially if the gut is already leaky, and trigger immune reaction elsewhere in the body.
   
2. Since gliadin, the main problem causing gluten protein, can be similar in structure to other proteins found in tissues of such organs as the thyroid or the pancreas, antibodies against gliadin can end up attacking those organs and ultimately cause autoimmune diseases like hypothyroidism and type 1 diabetes.
   
3. Gluten’s inflammatory effect in the gut causes intestinal cells to die prematurely and causes oxidation on those cells. This effect creates a leaky gut and a leaky gut can allow bacterial proteins and other toxic compounds to get in the blood stream, which can also lead to autoimmune attacks on the body. A leaky gut also means that food as not digested properly and nutrients are not absorbed fully, which can lead to nutrient deficiencies.
   
4. Antibodies against gluten have also been shown to attack heart tissues and cause heart disease.
   
5. Gluten has been strongly associated with cancer. It is potentially cancer causing, but at least cancer promoting.

WGA (wheat germ agglutinin)

1. WGA, like gluten, irritates and causes premature cell death in the gut and leads to a leaky gut condition, with all the detrimental effects that are known to follow.
   
2. WGA also disrupts the mucus membrane in the gut, which can cause bacterial overgrowth and lead to a host of digestive issues like GERD and ulcers.
   
3. The lectin also often ends up circulating in the body and in the brain, where it can cause leptin resistance and cause effects similar to insulin. Those two factors could be a cause or promoter of obesity as leptin and insulin are the two most important hormones to properly regulate in order to maintain a normal weight and energy balance.
   
4. WGA and another unknown factor in wheat cause vitamin D stores to deplete abnormally fast and can therefore lead to vitamin D deficiency, with all its accompanying issues like weakening of the bones, a weakened immune system and a vulnerability to infectious diseases and bacterial attacks.

Opioid peptides

1. The opioid peptides found in wheat are known to cause addiction to wheat in some people and withdrawal symptoms can happen upon the removal of wheat from the diet.
   
2. They have also been associated with Schizophrenia as a possible cause or at least as a promoter of the disease. Furthermore, Schizophrenics often see their symptoms reduce by a lot when removing wheat from their diet.

@ http://paleodietlifestyle.com/11-ways-gluten-and-wheat-can-damage-your-health/

I think the Taoist were onto something

[Antares]

The majority of the population has some adverse reaction to grains / wheat / gluten.

 

I'd say it has something to do with avoiding grains...

 

Google: Gluten and Skitzophrenia / mental disorders

 

http://celiacdisease.about.com/od/glutenintolerance/fr/Wheat-Belly-By-Dr-William-Davis.htm

 

 

 

 

Even responsible for chronic fatigue, infertility ...many things

 

 

 

I think the Taoist were onto something

 

 

 

There are other grains except of wheat. I like yogi's recipe of kichadi - boiled brown rice and lentils with ghee. I, personally, do not eat wheat. Sometime I have spelt.

[eye_of_the_storm]

There are other grains except of wheat. I like yogi's recipe of kichadi - boiled brown rice and lentils with ghee. I, personally, do not eat wheat. Sometime I have spelt.

 

Ah yes... it seems the problem really is the gluten?

 

I have brown rice + lentils occasional too

 

Some say the lentil is a pulse/bean *shrugs*

 

EDIT: Just did a few searches...

 

One comment...

 

 

I had the Celiac Panel test, and allergy testing, because I have most of the symptoms of Celiac. I also have RA since I was 25. All of those tests came back NEGATIVE.

 

Fine. I can eat the SAD for at most 1-1/2 weeks and I become a mess. I get the celiac bowel, the fatigue, the muscle pain, and arthritis pain, and the eczema, miserably.

 

So, then I eat gluten free, and it still does not go away. I had a colonoscopy and my doctor said my colon was in beautiful shape. But, ever since I was born, I feel crappy after I eat.

 

Rice makes me feel the same way. Also, come to find out, the gliadin antibody test only test for one of the 4 parts of the gliadin protein, the alpha, you can be reacting to the beta, gamma and omega parts and not know it.

 

So, if you think people are not affected by “non-gluten” grains, think again.

 

The comment was in regarding to...

 

 

Different forms of gluten actually do occur in grains other than the big three/four. That's because the word "gluten," in its generic form, refers to the storage proteins all grains contain. Those proteins support the growth of the plant's seeds (which we know as grain).

 

However, people with celiac and gluten intolerance don't react to all glutens -- only to the specific gluten proteins contained in the specific grains wheat, barley and rye. Those grains belong to a specific subfamily of grass plants, as do oats (which is why some of us also cannot tolerate oats).

 

Other grains -- such as corn, rice, soy, millet and sorghum -- belong to a completely different subfamily of grass plants, and their gluten proteins are very different

 

@ http://celiacdisease.about.com/b/2011/04/26/do-all-grains-have-gluten-yes-but-not-that-kind.htm

 

So it appears all grains do cause some people harm...

 

One would have to find out trial and error what is harming them.

 

From the Artilce "Yoked to the Earth" I think the Taoists avoided anything that was labour intensive... as that was being ../ yoked / enslaved

Edited April 24, 2013 by White Wolf Running On Air

[eye_of_the_storm]

In terms of longevity I think the basic belief was 'you are what you eat' so plants that are strong and grow on their own + live a long time... makes you live a long time also.

So pine nuts... and pine resin (I am unsure about eating this) , pine trees can live 200 to 400+ years

[Antares]

 

Ah yes... it seems the problem really is the gluten?

 

I have brown rice + lentils occasional too

 

Some say the lentil is a pulse/bean *shrugs*

 

so it appears all grains do cause some people harm...

 

One would have to find out trial and error what is harming them.

 

From the Artilce "Yoked to the Earth" I think the Taoists avoided anything that was labour intensive... as that was being ../ yoked / enslaved

 

Just avoid flour, bread, wheat, musli and white rice. Other grains and buckwheat must be soaked in warm water for at least 7 hours prior to cooking it.

[BaguaKicksAss]

I won't trust that article. It can't even get the translation of "bigu" right.

 

I assume you can't read Chinese. I apologize if I'm wrong.

 

You are right that I cannot read Chinese. I did enjoy the article, however all of what I wrote in my post is based on what my teacher taught me, not internet articles.

[BaguaKicksAss]

In terms of longevity I think the basic belief was 'you are what you eat' so plants that are strong and grow on their own + live a long time... makes you live a long time also.

 

So pine nuts... and pine resin (I am unsure about eating this) , pine trees can live 200 to 400+ years

 

 

 

 

 

Yes pine resin can be eaten. As can some other resins. Many are used in Chinese medicine as well.

[4bsolute]

Yes pine resin can be eaten. As can some other resins. Many are used in Chinese medicine as well.

 

I am pretty sure you can eat the entire forest. Pine needles can also be eaten, at least in the early stages when they are young and light green during may/june iirc. Taste juicy and sour. I have to try a pinch resin the next days..

Edited July 30, 2014 by 4bsolute

[BaguaKicksAss]

I am pretty sure you can eat the entire forest. Pine needles can also be eaten, at least in the early stages when they are young and light green during may/june iirc. Taste juicy and sour. I have to try a pinch resin the next days..

 

Pine needles, sap and nuts are all on many lists of eat regularly . It's difficult to find resin without loads of gunk in it, and it can catch fire very easily when you heat it! Working on a way to get around this... Pine needles, perhaps in a salad?

 

Mycology know how is handy too!

Edited July 30, 2014 by BaguaKicksAss

[Silent Answers]

I don't mean this to come across as rude... But I wouldn't put too much faith on what China's general population eats...whether it be now or thousands of years ago.

 

The majority of today's Chinese population don't understand that being vegetarian is an option... People honestly think that you will die if you don't eat meat. There are vegetarians however and very very few veggie restaurants, mostly at temples.

 

There's also the staple food -rice. Why is it a staple food? Because it was often the cheapest and most available thing the poor could get their hands on to fill themselves. Take a Cantonese favourite 稀饭，you may know it as congee. Basically it's rice juice...a common breakfast for many now...but exists only because there were times when people didn't have enough rice to share among the family.

 

Similar examples can be made to western culture. We eat what we've been told to (like the influx of cereals pushed down our throats and especially encouraged for children) ..or when times are hard we eat whatever we can get our hands on. After a while those dishes turn into habit, becoming part of the culture.

 

A few hundred years ago (even more recent in fact) Chinese people would rarely eat meat (out of necessity)... Now they hold banquets and waste vast amount of food that mainly consist of animal product. (Out of greed)

 

Of course this doesn't relate to TCM herbs etc...but we shouldn't ignore the influence that historical events have on many modern beliefs.

[4bsolute]

I don't mean this to come across as rude... But I wouldn't put too much faith on what China's general population eats...whether it be now or thousands of years ago.

 

The majority of today's Chinese population don't understand that being vegetarian is an option... People honestly think that you will die if you don't eat meat. There are vegetarians however and very very few veggie restaurants, mostly at temples.

 

There's also the staple food -rice. Why is it a staple food? Because it was often the cheapest and most available thing the poor could get their hands on to fill themselves. Take a Cantonese favourite 稀饭，you may know it as congee. Basically it's rice juice...a common breakfast for many now...but exists only because there were times when people didn't have enough rice to share among the family.

 

Similar examples can be made to western culture. We eat what we've been told to (like the influx of cereals pushed down our throats and especially encouraged for children) ..or when times are hard we eat whatever we can get our hands on. After a while those dishes turn into habit, becoming part of the culture.

 

A few hundred years ago (even more recent in fact) Chinese people would rarely eat meat (out of necessity)... Now they hold banquets and waste vast amount of food that mainly consist of animal product. (Out of greed)

 

Of course this doesn't relate to TCM herbs etc...but we shouldn't ignore the influence that historical events have on many modern beliefs.

 

Do it yourself and dont put so much interest on the external? If they find it useful and see what benefits it causes in you, they will eat it too.

 

Meat tastes wonderful, what can I say? I am not "a" vegetarian or vegan, I mostly eat fruit and vegetables and nuts and seeds. But still I recall everything about meat. Would I come across the information that all animals are here to serve us on our path to enlightenment and that it is a great option to eat meat, especially that our bodies can digest it well, I would eat it again.

 

Honestly? How many individuals including myself stopped eating meat because of external information? I never had digestion issues myself and I never had any other problems in my body eating it. Not a single one. I had lower blood pressure when I was eating Red meat. Not high, as you should get. All of it started by the media and how it put it, the slaughtering off masses and the theory about animal empathy, showing cruel pictures. Then stories about actually killing an animal yourself, how it feels.

 

Then you have the word killing. Killing in terms of taking life away. You cant ever take life away since life always is everywhere. That being, you "killed" is just then roaming around in an energetic form respawning in the next moment as it's next desired creation. It is a soul like you and me. The soul itself does not care about being killed, because it is an infinite being that can never die nor be born.

 

And there we had sacrifice all over the world. Sacrifice was a noble action. I can guarantee you that sacrifice was an act of love. How about you "kill" an animal out of love? To enjoy his flesh. Yes, from our restricted mind, our system barely filled with love if we not cultivate or create that love in this reality, it sounds absurd. Sacrificing animals instead of "killing" them might be eating meat 2.0 before we ultimately realize that we just consume various forms of light that are purer.

 

When I was eating meat a while ago, I was giving a prayer, like I do regularly before eating, but this time in an extraordinary way for giving my thank to that being, shortening it's time here and all the experience it could have gathered by serving me in this way of enjoying it's body.

 

So all the drama, starts here in the physical form. And I truly want to see the other, infinite side. I can tell you that I am literally fed up with all this drama and misconception and I want to have a clear picture of what "karma" really is, if it even exists or maybe it is just another religious instrument of chastisement.

 

Is there the theory of karma in Taoism?

Edited July 31, 2014 by 4bsolute

[Asmo]

Imho, you first need to purify your body (Avoiding Grain) until you reach a state where you can live without food (Closing the Gate).

 

http://sensualanimist.com/2012/10/16/taoist-diet-bigu-avoiding-grains

 

A modern approach to bigu would be http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/paleolithic_diet .

 

Basic Principle is living like before the advent of Agriculture, and from my own experience i can say it works well.

 

>Chris<

[Silent Answers]

Meat tastes wonderful, what can I say? I am not "a" vegetarian or vegan, I mostly eat fruit and vegetables and nuts and seeds. But still I recall everything about meat. Would I come across the information that all animals are here to serve us on our path to enlightenment and that it is a great option to eat meat, especially that our bodies can digest it well, I would eat it again.

 

Bacon is my worst enemy and favourite lover ....as is anything from the BBQ....Thank god there's still chocolate.

 

Honestly? How many individuals including myself stopped eating meat because of external information? I never had digestion issues myself and I never had any other problems in my body eating it. Not a single one. I had lower blood pressure when I was eating Red meat. Not high, as you should get. All of it started by the media and how it put it, the slaughtering off masses and the theory about animal empathy, showing cruel pictures. Then stories about actually killing an animal yourself, how it feels.

 

I stopped because I knew it was the right thing to do for me personally. Like you say later the soul is infinite, but it's been put inside of a vessel for a reason, and I don't want to end it's journey prematurely. If I get to a stage where I no longer need to eat, then I'd give up plants too. Since quitting meat (going cold turkey? ) I've felt cleaner and feel like my energy flows better. Maybe that's all placebo.