Feminist thread

[zanshin]

nasturtium 

Edited April 19, 2020 by zanshin

[Vanir Thunder Dojo Tan]

Free will is becoming the reigning authority in life. we need to equate instead of allowing a continued chain of command.


The chain must be consensual.


VERY FEW PEOPLE are going to consent to a boss for much longer.

[zanshin]

Nasdaq

Edited April 19, 2020 by zanshin

[Vanir Thunder Dojo Tan]

its getting sorted out. there were red chindren, there were yellow children, there had been green children and blue children.

The indigo children were the generation before me and the rainbow children are being born since the '80's.

The rainbow warriors are fighting tooth and nail to penetrate the omniversal whole to reach us, becasue we are in dire need of re-connection.




Have you seen the new remake movie, Dredd?

Well rainbow warriors are like the non-violent equivalent of the Judges. and Mega City One is like the omniverse. The Giant bloc which this movie revolved around is the equivalent of OUR universe.



We're gonna be alright. Nothing but nothing is above the love and protection of a rainbow warrior except the omniverse as a whole.

Edited May 18, 2013 by Northern Avid Judo Ant

[zanshin]

Nascar

Edited April 19, 2020 by zanshin

[Flolfolil]

a lot of gay men are really serious women haters. not always to their face though :/

 

why do you guys think a lot of women find gay men appealing?

[zanshin]

On 5/18/2013 at 4:14 PM, Flolfolil said:

a lot of gay men are really serious women haters. not always to their face though :/

Edited April 19, 2020 by zanshin

[Vanir Thunder Dojo Tan]

Transwomen were considered sacred for a reason... we help men struggling with hate. just like Transmen help women with that too, but women are more intrinsically connected to the goddess than men typically are. its only nature.

Edited May 18, 2013 by Northern Avid Judo Ant

[zanshin]

Nada

Edited April 19, 2020 by zanshin

[Vanir Thunder Dojo Tan]

it will never cease, but it does not have to be dominant... equality is on the way/alchemy is reaching elixir.

[Protector]

With all the bossy talk I forgot that this was a Taoist site

What happened to wu wei?

 

wu-weipha male heehee

[zanshin]

zilch

Edited April 19, 2020 by zanshin

[Flolfolil]

What happened to wu wei?

 

wu-weipha male heehee

i wish my dad would be a little less wu wei with my stepmother and dump her

[Vanir Thunder Dojo Tan]

oh dear... XD

[Sloppy Zhang]

...It was a rush because it was dangerous, I don't think she found the chimpanzee attractive. Most women express that guys like Tiger and Charlie are pretty pathetic, but somehow they do end up getting attention and girlfriends. I really don't understand appeal of the alpha male schtick.

 

It's BECAUSE they're dangerous. Or at the very least, unpredictable.

 

A woman comes home, knows the man is going to be there, greet her with a kiss, help her make dinner, give her a nice massage, talk about feelings, and make sweet love.

 

How nice... every day....

 

Vs,

 

A woman comes home. Will he be there or won't he? Will he notice what I did with my hair, or won't he? Will he help me make dinner, or will he be out? Will he get a call from Stacey? Who is Stacey? He says she isn't anybody, but why did Stacey make it seem like they had a history? Is he going to make love to me tonight, ignore me, or are we going to go at it like horny monkeys? Is he going to have a bag of weed in his jacket? Ecstasy? Are we going to fight or fuck?

 

In my experience, women want a little unpredictability, even if they don't want the danger.

 

Unfortunately, most "nice guys" are predictable. He's always going to be there. He's always going to notice you. He's always going to help you out. He's always going to give you what you want (in bed or otherwise). Snore!

 

It may not be that the woman wants a straight up abusive guy. But they don't necessarily want a guy who is going to do the same thing all the time, even if it's exactly what she wants every time.

 

So maybe they don't go for the "bad" guy. They just go for the "unpredictable guy." And more often than not, it's the bad boy. But it's not the "bad" qualities she likes.

 

As a "nice" guy myself (empathetic, courteous, conscientious, etc) I know I'm always going to be there for my woman, always give her what she wants (in bed or otherwise). But I leave some mystery in how and when I'm going to do it. Throw a little unpredictability in there.

[Sloppy Zhang]

If it's all about alpha, why do you guys think a lot of women find gay men appealing?

 

Appealing in what way though? Appealing in the "let's hang out together a lot even when I'm hardly dressed as I tell you my deepest secrets" kind of way?

 

Or appealing in the "let's have sex" kind of way?

 

Because a straight man who wants to get with a woman (whether just for a fling or a long term relationship that involves physical intimacy) is only going to really be satisfied if it includes the latter.

 

Otherwise you fall into the "friend zone" state. Where the girl feels comfortable around you in every way but just doesn't want to have sex with you. And I know very few straight men who are genuinely okay with being in the friend zone of a woman they find attractive and want to be with.

[zanshin]

On 5/20/2013 at 7:49 PM, Sloppy Zhang said:

 

Appealing in what way though? Appealing in the "let's hang out together a lot even when I'm hardly dressed as I tell you my deepest secrets" kind of way?

 

Or appealing in the "let's have sex" kind of way?

 

Because a straight man who wants to get with a woman (whether just for a fling or a long term relationship that involves physical intimacy) is only going to really be satisfied if it includes the latter.

 

Otherwise you fall into the "friend zone" state. Where the girl feels comfortable around you in every way but just doesn't want to have sex with you. And I know very few straight men who are genuinely okay with being in the friend zone of a woman they find attractive and want to be with

Edited April 19, 2020 by zanshin

[Sloppy Zhang]

Maybe both, I had a bisexual friend explain to me the appeal of her butch lesbian girl friend, who looks like a guy, I think sort of same idea. It can be the best of both worlds, both masculine and feminine traits can be appealing. I think people in general are becoming more androgenous and more of range of sexuality is, if maybe not socially acceptable, than at least tolerated. For any sort of long term relationship, it certainly helps to have some common interests.

 

Well bisexuality is a different category than homosexuality.

 

Previously I was talking about a straight girl and a homosexual man. She might find the homosexual man "attractive" in the sense that he may take care of his body, have an eye for fashion, engages in conversation of a more stereotypically "gossippy" nature (damn, look at all them stereotypes!)

 

And all the while, she won't be having sex with him!

 

My point was in response to your question for why women might find homosexual men attractive. I don't think it's necessarily in the straight man's best interest to emulate all aspects of a homosexual man's relationship with a straight woman, because at some point in time, a straight man is going to want sex with the straight woman. For a homosexual man and a heterosexual woman where sex isn't really a priority in the relationship... well, you see

 

I agree with other post about unpredictability. But you realize it works both ways, "bad girls" can use men, string them along and really take advantage.

 

True, but how often do we hear about a guy who always dates the "bad girl" who just leads him along?

 

We don't have much of a social dialogue concerning men who find "bad girls" like your description desirable, and we don't really see anything about how to identify bad girls and how to find the nice ones.

 

Not saying they're not out there and it's not an issue. But in some sense, popular media might be a good barometer for social issues.

 

Hate to beat a dead horse (yeah, I went there...) but Rihanna keeps going back to Chris Brown, and men's dating/sex advice typically centers around making him less of a "all cards on the table nice guy" and more of a "try to be a little aloof and unpredictable" to at least provide the illusion of "bad boys."

 

Don't see much female dating advice that circles aroud enticing him by putting on the persona of a "bad girl" that strings him along. If anything, the bad girl is the one who'll get low and blow his... mind. Basically, give him more of what he wants that he'll expect

 

"Nice girls" get ignored when they change their hair and make the dinner, but wow, we become center of the universe when we came back after maybe weekend out with girlfriends.

 

Here I would ask, who is doing the ignoring, and who is she going out with and coming home to?

 

Is it the unattached guy who's missing drastic changes, or is it the otherwise loving partner who goes out of his way to help and is available to discuss problems?

 

Why is she becoming the center of the universe? The first reason that pops out in my head is the guy is worried she may have cheated on him or been flirting with other guys. Did she hang out with friends who frequently have casual sex outside of a steady relationship? Has she been acting distant recently, talking about other guys, not really been engaged sexually in the relationship?

 

So, is there an equivalency of "alpha" for women? Sometimes it seems like everything we do is wrong.

 

Well what standards are you using? Leadership position of a business organization, people answer to you, you make lots of money, nice car, nice clothes, and you have sex with lots of women in your free time? Sex with lots of men?

 

Sounds like a traditional alpha male. And I only speak for myself here, but I don't want to be in a relationship with a girl who is an alpha male I don't think many other guys do either.

 

We maybe we could explore what parts of that apply, what don't. What exactly appeals and what doesn't appeal (for me personally, I like a woman who is decisive and knows what she wants, but I don't want to be in a relationship with someone who sleeps around casually if they're in a relationship with me. So I wouldn't mind dating a corporate CEO, but I would mind dating a female player).

[Protector]

ZHANG, DUDE, I WANT A BAD GIRL

But discussing my preferences online never leads to anything good lol

 

Unfortunately, most "nice guys" are predictable. He's always going to be there. He's always going to notice you. He's always going to help you out. He's always going to give you what you want (in bed or otherwise). Snore!

 

LMAO

[zanshin]

Is

 

Edited April 19, 2020 by zanshin

[Sloppy Zhang]

Maybe sort of ironic to use a stereotype to combat a stereotype. But my idea is that different women find a variety of guys and characteristics of guys appealing, so no I don't think guys should put on metrosexual persona to attract women any more than they should put on a competitive alpha persona.

 

Maybe, but on the flip side stereotypes come from somewhere. We notice trends in our own life and society at large. Pretty girls date the bad boys, right? Nice guys are either friend zoned with no chance of sex, or at least they are friends with/date girls who aren't as conventionally attractive.

 

So for the nice guys who decide they want to date a conventionally attractive girl, maybe they'll decide to play the numbers. Sure, maybe not EVERY hottie out there dates bad boys. But enough do to make the life change worth it.

 

I think all people should probably do some reflection about who they are and what they really want, basically be authentic in relationships and look beyond stereotypes. Probably sensible to make a few adjustments if you're trying to attract someone like starting conversations, grooming and keeping your bathroom clean, put not to try to show a fake personality.

 

So I ask: where do you draw the line?

 

Where does a guy becoming more decisive and assertive (rather than always deferring to the woman) become him being bossy?

 

What IS bossy vs assertive? What is bossy and assertive in the context of a woman who wants her man to pull the trigger, and not always stop and ask "well what would you like to do?"

 

 

Pop culture seems to lead to a superficial understanding of life.

 

I was referring to pop culture, but not limiting it to pop culture in my comments. Think "common knowledge," assumptions that everyone makes. "Street smarts" and "conventional wisdom." Stereotyped and cliche? Sure. Completely off the mark? Not so sure about that. It's coming from somewhere.

 

So stuff like "nice guys finish last" and "girls like the bad boy."

 

 

I'll try to talk about pop culture and bad girls though, how about that archetype of femme fatale? That's what pop culture thought Angelina Jolie was back when she did wild and crazy things and broke up BRad and Jennifer,but they've stayed together pretty long for Hollywood and the stereotype really doesn't fit now. Can't think of many good modern bad girl celebrities,old ones yes, Mae West, Marilyn Monroe, Betty Page, JAne Russell even Elizabeth Taylor, well I guess modern porn equates to attraction to bad girls, but maybe it's lost the iconic vibe.

 

There IS a cultural idea about the "homewrecker" (tells us what society really thinks about the sanctity of marriage and the other woman). She's usually the younger, attractive woman who gives the man the sex that his older, overweight, uninterested woman is not interested in giving him (for whatever reasons).

 

So while she might be "stringing him along" or "using him" (for his money, status, etc) from HIS perspective, he's getting exactly what he wants: sex. And not just the "okay, now's your chance if you want it, go ahead" kind of sex. But the "give it to me I want you inside of me right now" kind of sex.

 

Is that term metrosexual passé? I might not understand some references here as well as I should, I know Rihanna is a pop singer but none of her songs, I don't watch sitcoms and I think golf is a nice sport for old people.

 

Nah, it's still a good term to use.

 

I don't avidly follow enough stuff to get all of the references. But I do hang out with people enough to get what they're referencing and why they're referencing it.

[zanshin]

Wild kingdom

Edited April 19, 2020 by zanshin

[Sloppy Zhang]

The pua racket does seem to try to help guys learn social skills beyond throwing money around, but if you really want to date hotties, than throw money around. Pretty sure that's mostly how Tiger and Charlie do it anyway.

 

Actually, the PUA "racket" teaches guys to get hotties WITHOUT throwing money around They're trying to SAVE guys the money.

 

Tiger and Charlie might have lots of money. But their money is secondary to the other alpha qualities. Charisma, social dominance, decisiveness, a certain aloofness and detachment from the women they are dating.

 

Women dating superstars and athletes might catch some cash and perks as a result of being around these guys. But I don't think these guys' pickup strategy is to throw money at women.

 

That will DEFINITELY leave you a victim to the gold diggers.

 

 

Girls don't put time and money into being hotties wihout wanting to get something out of it, sort of an investment.

 

But what are they hoping to get out of it? Money? Be a model.

 

But I don't think women who do themselves up and put themselves out there are looking for money. Plenty of these girls start young (13-14) and keep it up for years (into their 30's) without any direct monetary compensation.

 

So they must be doing it for something else.... What then?

 

That's what PUA is getting at. They're not in it for money. They're in it for an alpha guy (who may or may not be rich). So to get a hottie, don't throw money. Throw alpha.

 

 

 

If you don't want to date a girl who has had and likely will continue to have sex with a lot of guys, then don't date hottie. Then again, if you want a girl who is uninhibited and knows what she's doing in bed and you like some thrills and drama then go ahead

 

Or be a guy a woman doesn't want to lose by sleeping around.

 

 

 

I'm using hottie to mean flirty and flashy center of attention beyond conventionally attractive girl. Hottie might be a female equivalent to alpha, but supposingly men look up to alphas, women don't like floozies.

 

I think there are a lot of different intertwined issues here too. What's the difference between a sexual enthusiast and a floozie? Who do women look up to and want to emulate?

 

 

If nice guys are smart guys might give the girls some motivation to try to look pretty and be interested.

 

Million dollar question: how?

Edited May 21, 2013 by Sloppy Zhang

[zanshin]

On 5/21/2013 at 3:49 PM, viator said:

 

So awesome.

schlock

Edited April 19, 2020 by zanshin

[zanshin]

On 5/21/2013 at 6:27 PM, Sloppy Zhang said:

Actually, the PUA "racket" teaches guys to get hotties WITHOUT throwing money around They're trying to SAVE guys the money.

 

Tiger and Charlie might have lots of money. But their money is secondary to the other alpha qualities. Charisma, social dominance, decisiveness, a certain aloofness and detachment from the women they are dating.

 

Women dating superstars and athletes might catch some cash and perks as a result of being around these guys. But I don't think these guys' pickup strategy is to throw money at women.

 

That will DEFINITELY leave you a victim to the gold diggers.

 

 

 

But what are they hoping to get out of it? Money? Be a model.

 

But I don't think women who do themselves up and put themselves out there are looking for money. Plenty of these girls start young (13-14) and keep it up for years (into their 30's) without any direct monetary compensation.

 

So they must be doing it for something else.... What then?

 

That's what PUA is getting at. They're not in it for money. They're in it for an alpha guy (who may or may not be rich). So to get a hottie, don't throw money. Throw alpha.

 

 

 

 

Or be a guy a woman doesn't want to lose by sleeping around.

 

 

 

 

I think there are a lot of different intertwined issues here too. What's the difference between a sexual enthusiast and a floozie? Who do women look up to and want to emulate?

 

 

 

Million dollar question: how?

 

 

Edited April 19, 2020 by zanshin