Feminist thread

[Protector]

So many heteronormative assumptions about gender performativity that I don't even

[Sloppy Zhang]

I have a professional degree and could have had a full time job making enough to provide for the family with one phone call, so this seemed reasonable. What actually ensued was a lot of angst and craziness which he later explained to me was my fault for making him feel devalued and I should have understood it as my cue to put him on a pedestal.

 

Don't you know that men (warning, heteronormative assumption about gender performativity coming) have fragile egos?

 

It's a downed economy and even guys with masters degrees and PhD's are having issues finding jobs. Some gal can put on pencil skirt, make a phone call, and get a job?

 

Blow to the male ego right there!

 

I'm half joking and half being serious.

 

 

I don't completely disagree, but it didn't sound right. I too, have an internet search bar and can doublecheck the celebrity sleaze.

 

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/national/tiger_hired_worth_of_prostitutes_RiILkPLMI4e1IEA9ODtbpI

http://www.nypost.com/p/blogs/tiger_beat/tiger_woods_paid_rachel_uchitel_kso0M8eIYaai35ltbaqrAP

So, Tiger straight up was paying at least some of his girls for sex and when things hit the fan his mistresses got busy pretty fast extorting him for money. Somehow, I do not think these girls were feeling the love and devotion because of his super cool alpha qualities.

 

A sucker's game.

 

Regardless, my point still stands: with fame and social presence (traits of alpha) you don't need to pay for sex. There may be guys that do, but I wouldn't consider it a winning strategy long term.

 

 

So for million dollar question? Well you already understand all about magic formula to attract and have sex with lots of pretty women, just throw alpha. Pua isn't really secret stuff, so what about all the other guys throwing alpha? Sounds like by definition not everyone can be alpha.

 

Not everyone can be the top dog. But everyone can have the traits of a top dog. Self assurance, outcome independence, etc.

 

 

Can we have sword fights to decide?

 

 

 

Showing ability to handle long pointy objects might be more indicative of certain skills than flashy and bossy is.

 

As a guy who's always been bigger than everyone else, sometimes I do fantasize about living in a time/world in which might made right, and my physical skills will actually gain me some points with the ladies more that cocky confidence.

 

But then I realize what a nasty, brutish, and short life that will be, and I count my blessings.

 

But seriously, if you can pick up a girl you genuinely start to care about then maybe million dollar question is how to keep a woman interested and also working to keep your interest up, so a relationship. First, back to the stereotypes, women are more naturally monogamous than men so just truly being into intimacy of having a relationship and moving past casual flings probably a good first step. Beyond that, maybe you could pay attention, use your powers of observation, feel love and respect, perhaps even ask her what she wants and listen and communicate. I really don't think there's a magic formula, people have all kinds of quirk and variations anyway. I do feel it's fairly ubiquitously a turn off to have formulas applied to you and to be treated like some sort of object to be manipulated.

 

Some stereotypes about PUA getting into the mix as well. PUA has evolved to get away from canned acts and formulas and more towards "principles." Give the ladies what they want. Cocky confident, outcome independent.

 

Don't the ladies like non-needy type of guy?

 

There's another thing to consider, and that is the PUA market- needy nice guys who can't get laid to save their life.

 

So a PUA teacher will say "act distant," and for an overly needed guy, that acting distant will even out to a nice, "non-neediness."

 

So many heteronormative assumptions about gender performativity that I don't even

 

You mean you didn't hear the disclaimer? That everyone is a special snowflake, not all men want to be (or are) big and strong and not all women want to be (or are) pretty and thin? That not all guys want women and not all women want guys?

 

Coulda sworn it was around here somewhere...

[Protector]

I'm sensing a thing here

[Sloppy Zhang]

I'm sensing a thing here

 

Well I guess it depends on the type of feminist you're talking to

 

Some feminists argue that in the patriarchal society in which we live, men are the recipients of so much privilege that we aren't even on an equal footing with women. So even if women/society DO/DOES discriminate against/hate men, it's within the context of so much privilege that we aren't even REALLY at much of a loss.

 

Courts rule in favor of women in divorce proceedings? More men killed on the job? More men homeless and in prison? More men killed in wars?

 

They're a privileged class anyway.

 

So in that context, misandry might not even be a thing.

Edited May 22, 2013 by Sloppy Zhang

[zanshin]

I am a geek

Edited April 19, 2020 by zanshin

[zanshin]

On 5/22/2013 at 2:25 PM, Sloppy Zhang said:

Well I guess it depends on the type of feminist you're talking to

 

Some feminists argue that in the patriarchal society in which we live, men are the recipients of so much privilege that we aren't even on an equal footing with women. So even if women/society DO/DOES discriminate against/hate men, it's within the context of so much privilege that we aren't even REALLY at much of a loss.

 

Courts rule in favor of women in divorce proceedings? More men killed on the job? More men homeless and in prison? More men killed in wars?

 

They're a privileged class anyway.

 

So in that context, misandry might not even be a thing.

 

Edited April 19, 2020 by zanshin

[zanshin]

 

 

On 5/22/2013 at 1:17 PM, Sloppy Zhang said:

A sucker's game.

 

Regardless, my point still stands: with fame and social presence (traits of alpha) you don't need to pay for sex. There may be guys that do, but I wouldn't consider it a winning strategy long term.

 

 

 

Not everyone can be the top dog. But everyone can have the traits of a top dog. Self assurance, outcome independence, etc.

 

 

 

 

 

 

As a guy who's always been bigger than everyone else, sometimes I do fantasize about living in a time/world in which might made right, and my physical skills will actually gain me some points with the ladies more that cocky confidence.

 

But then I realize what a nasty, brutish, and short life that will be, and I count my blessings

What

 

Edited April 19, 2020 by zanshin

[Enishi]

The attraction to bad boys and jerks tends to be strongest among younger women (teens to mid twenties) and then falls off quickly after that.

Looking back on the time when I was in my twenties, the most frustrating thing wasn't women's rejection, a person has little direct control over who they feel attracted to. What bothered me most was the self-delusion, lack of self-awareness and projecting all the blame onto men as a group.

I believe that denial extends into other far more important areas, such as unbalanced family court rulings.

Edited May 23, 2013 by Enishi

[Sloppy Zhang]

No mini skirts are for free drinks, scrubs are for work. We did have an old British rehab aide who'd worked in rest homes in the 70s, she said they used to wear short skirts and low cut tops to work so the aides would bend over and sick old guys would jump right out of bed. Could be a tactic.

 

That'd get me up!.... out of bed....

 

 

 

 

 

Seriously, thanks to feminism women can have same education and same jobs, sometimes even with same salary. It is sort of annoying to have to tone down abilities in relationships. I was thinking of a specific friend when I said bossy women have a hard time finding a partner. This girl is cute, thin and blond, no trouble attracting guys in the first place. She is also bright, educated, lived and travelled all over the world, athletic, confident. She's met a few guys she's genuinely liked, relationship started to develop, then guy distances himself or outright dumps her, one even told her he just couldn't take it that she wouldn't let him be the man. I don't think she's gratuitously bossy, she's knowledgeable, has lots of good ideas, tends to take charge but not really emotional or bitchy about if someone disagrees. From a guy's perspective, what would be your advice for women who are naturally alpha?

 

I'm a weird guy. I was raised by a very strong mother, so I suppose my view of women in relationships is a bit different (also what I view as bossiness/bitchiness....)

 

My girlfriend right now is frustratingly passive and indecisive. As a "nice guy" born and raised, my thought would be that she's just not interested in me or being in the situation and I'd try and move on.

 

But thanks to my exposure to PUA, I know now that (some?) women WANT the guy to take the lead, to make a decision, and maybe to even ignore their preference a little bit. So that's what I did, that made her comfortable in opening up with me, and we've got a good relationship.

 

Am I still frustrated by her indecisiveness and lack of will to just DO something? Sure. But, you know, she's just a different type of person.

 

 

So PUA guys can use stereotypes about women to play the numbers. I think it might be wise for women to recognize some of the attention getting devices and routines to screen for PUAs. A lot of these guys want to be players and objectify women and rack up notches on the bed post, sure there might be some frustrated nice guys, but perhaps best for women to play the numbers and steer clear of all of them.

 

And what would they screen for? A guy who is confident, outcome independent, and playfully teasing?

 

 

What does non-needy mean? Being self sufficient enough not to feel like the mom and not calling every 5 minutes and getting bent out of shape about spending some time with friends might be good. Letting us plan some activities and taking good advice might be good too.

 

Everything a good player will do

 

 

I seen it.

 

Sorry Protector, am trying to be nice and talk to SZ, it's a moon in Scorpio thing.

 

I'm a sun scorpio

[Creation]

From a guy's perspective, what would be your advice for women who are naturally alpha?

Find a guy who is solidly rooted in his masculinity. This is very rare these days. It certainly doesn't just mean he is alpha or successful or whatever by society's standards.

 

Also, zanshin, it's nice to see a lady engaging with the fellas in this thread. Congratulations on your upcoming marriage.

[zanshin]

On 5/22/2013 at 4:42 PM, Sloppy Zhang said:

And what would they screen for? A guy who is confident, outcome independent, and playfully teasing?

 

 

 

Everything a good player will do

 

 

 

I'm a sun scorpio

 

Edited April 19, 2020 by zanshin

[zanshin]

On 5/22/2013 at 6:25 PM, Creation said:

Find a guy who is solidly rooted in his masculinity. This is very rare these days. It certainly doesn't just mean he is alpha or successful or whatever by society's standards.

 

Also, zanshin, it's nice to see a lady engaging with the fellas in this thread. Congratulations on your upcoming marriage.

Thanks 

Edited April 19, 2020 by zanshin

[Protector]

baw, the mods promised me more fighting in here

WHAT DO I DO WITH ALL THIS REVOLUTION?

 

 

 

[Sloppy Zhang]

baw, the mods promised me more fighting in here

WHAT DO I DO WITH ALL THIS REVOLUTION?

 

 

 

Protector sometimes I wonder how often people (guys) "play to the crowd".

 

You know, the slowly increasing social thought that hetero is bad, homo is good, mainly, women-women (no oppressive men!)

 

Why didn't that artist make Jesus be a guy and do it with one of his (male) disciples? Why did it have to be two women?

 

To get even MORE feminist critical of it, why two conventionally attractive women? How about some fat ladies?

 

I ran into this issue a lot when I was studying creative writing in college. One thing we talked about is the predominance of male perspectives, no women.

 

I hate to break it to people, but I'm a heterosexual male. I like women, I write characters that are sympathetic to me, and they want to get the girl

 

I don't know what women talk about when I'm (a guy) am not around, so excuse me for not writing a scene in which two women talk to each other about not a guy

 

My thought was if women want to see more women writers (or business people or politicians or soldiers) then women should do that.

 

But I'm a privileged male and I have no idea how many more barriers women have.

[Protector]

Protector sometimes I wonder how often people (guys) "play to the crowd".

 

You know, the slowly increasing social thought that hetero is bad, homo is good, mainly, women-women (no oppressive men!)

 

Why didn't that artist make Jesus be a guy and do it with one of his (male) disciples? Why did it have to be two women?

 

To get even MORE feminist critical of it, why two conventionally attractive women? How about some fat ladies?

 

I ran into this issue a lot when I was studying creative writing in college. One thing we talked about is the predominance of male perspectives, no women.

 

I hate to break it to people, but I'm a heterosexual male. I like women, I write characters that are sympathetic to me, and they want to get the girl

 

I don't know what women talk about when I'm (a guy) am not around, so excuse me for not writing a scene in which two women talk to each other about not a guy

 

My thought was if women want to see more women writers (or business people or politicians or soldiers) then women should do that.

 

But I'm a privileged male and I have no idea how many more barriers women have.

 

The third comic came right after the first two, that's a reason

 

Gay relationships in media are celebrated a lot lately(well, not all of the media, mostly internet) because not too long ago they were not a thing as far as pop culture is concerned.

Hetero is bad, is because straight kinda symbolizes ignorance. The attitude is usually "ew gross" or "OK, gay happens but I don't care so keep it away". Ignorance is not a good thing and sometimes it even hurts. All conflicts come from misunderstanding because no one wants to hurt each other but ignorance makes people see ghosts that they must fight and people look different.

Too bad people don't like to learn about things that they don't care about, but good thing they like to argue

I think everyone should be sympathetic to everyone no matter what they are, or else.

Less hurting, and hurting hurts.

[zanshin]

On 5/23/2013 at 12:19 PM, Sloppy Zhang said:

You know, the slowly increasing social thought that hetero is bad, homo is good, mainly, women-women (no oppressive men!)

Prosciutto 

Edited April 19, 2020 by zanshin

[Sloppy Zhang]

The third comic came right after the first two, that's a reason

 

Duh

 

I'm saying the artist made a choice to have Jesus appear female and gay, as opposed to having Jesus appear male and gay.

 

Further to that, he had Jesus appear as a conventionally attractive female, in a homosexual encounter with another conventionally attractive woman.

 

 

 

Gay relationships in media are celebrated a lot lately(well, not all of the media, mostly internet) because not too long ago they were not a thing as far as pop culture is concerned.

Hetero is bad, is because straight kinda symbolizes ignorance. The attitude is usually "ew gross" or "OK, gay happens but I don't care so keep it away". Ignorance is not a good thing and sometimes it even hurts. All conflicts come from misunderstanding because no one wants to hurt each other but ignorance makes people see ghosts that they must fight and people look different.

Too bad people don't like to learn about things that they don't care about, but good thing they like to argue

I think everyone should be sympathetic to everyone no matter what they are, or else.

Less hurting, and hurting hurts.

 

While I think that's a little oversimplified, keep in mind that "hetero is ignorant" is just as ignorant

 

My girlfriend tells me when she hangs out with her LGBTQ group of friends that she feels guilty about being straight, because of the privilege and breaks she gets.

 

Not sure that this is the environment we want to be creating

 

I'm a straight guy and like the ladies. If the ladies like me, cool. If they like ladies, cool. If other guys like other guys, cool. If a guy likes me, I'm sorry, nothing I can do for that. I will say that I have met some male to female transgendered people that I'd date. But I find that an extension of my attraction to women.

 

Help me understand that. Go call people dicks, fags, queer, pussies and another synonym for female anatomy, which is seen as the most insulting. Don't try the female ones on men unless you want to get punched in the face, you'll probably just get a funny look if you call women dicks though.

 

I was referring to the sentiment outlined by Protector.

 

More of a sympathy for the homosexual relationship as more genuine and honest, as opposed to the ignorant, repressive, possessive heterosexual relationship.

 

Maybe more common in liberal arts universities, or more "liberal" areas (around which I've been for the past few years).

[Protector]

 

Duh

 

I'm saying the artist made a choice to have Jesus appear female and gay, as opposed to having Jesus appear male and gay.

 

Further to that, he had Jesus appear as a conventionally attractive female, in a homosexual encounter with another conventionally attractive woman.

 

 

 

Ugh, I hate explaining jokes

 

He couldn't have made the gay Jesus joke because he already made Jessica Christ joke

If Jesus was female to start with and then the author made a male Jesus joke then the third comic had to have Judas kissing Jesus for real. Though, we don't know how fo' real that kiss was in reality

He wasn't choosing female over male here, there's continuity here with Jessica Christ so he didn't have a choice

And most fan-fics are wish fulfillment stories, so as a parody, there will be some making out

 

[Sloppy Zhang]

Ugh, I hate explaining jokes

 

I'm not exclusively talking about the third comic

[zanshin]

bratwurst

Edited April 19, 2020 by zanshin

[Sloppy Zhang]

Liberal arts universities are a microcosm, maybe even somewhat reactionary and overcompensation.

 

People are still shunned and bullied for non-normative lifestyle in much of society.

 

"Girl" or "gay" are still high insult for adolescent boys to call each other.

 

As Protector has pointed out, the view also extends into art which informs culture which also trickles out to the masses. There are cities which are also quite liberal, even if the rest of the state isn't. At what point does something a microcosm, and at what point is something in a mass group of people that is just... not where you live?

[Protector]

I'm not exclusively talking about the third comic

 

Aw hell nao, I'm not explaining the whole plot

[Enishi]

Liberal arts universities are a microcosm, maybe even somewhat reactionary and overcompensation.

 

People are still shunned and bullied for non-normative lifestyle in much of society.

 

"Girl" or "gay" are still high insult for adolescent boys to call each other.

 

 

Society for the individual is the immediate world they inhabit and are exposed to on a daily basis. In the "world" where I live, which is an urban college town area, along with most people in my circle of friends (on and off the net), and in the media as well, the general unspoken rule as I percieve it is that most are feminist or at least heavily sympathetic as such, and there is the unspoken assumption that people like me who were born with a penis are a priori potential abuses, rapists and are held chiefly responsible for the world's problems, both past and present. You are only fully accepted if you admit to this and directly or indirectly apologize for being male. In that sense, given that I feel little to no connection to most currently living men or male ancestors, my perception is that I am being partially blamed for the actions of others with whom I share no kinship, and my own actions are scrutinized more than similar actions made by females.

 

In the deep south, rural areas and third world countries I know that the situation is far different. However, I'd also point out that although in terms of physical size the more rural, patriarchal areas can seem like a vast sea of red, urban areas and college cities/towns are far more populous and are the greater contributer in terms of media and culture

Edited May 24, 2013 by Enishi

[Sloppy Zhang]

Aw hell nao, I'm not explaining the whole plot

 

My point stands whether you take one comic, the sample of three you posted, or the whole damn thing.

 

The artist made a choice to depict a woman rather than a gay man, and a conventionally attractive woman rather than some other type of woman.

[zanshin]

On 5/23/2013 at 9:34 PM, Enishi said:

 

 

Society for the individual is the immediate world they inhabit and are exposed to on a daily basis. In the "world" where I live, which is an urban college town area, along with most people in my circle of friends (on and off the net), and in the media as well, the general unspoken rule as I perieve it is that most are feminist or at least heavily sympathetic, and there is the unspoken assumption that people like me who were born with a penis are a priori potential abuses, rapists and are held chiefly responsible for the world's problems, both past and present. You are only fully accepted if you admit to this and directly or indirectly apologize for being male. In that sense, given that I feel little to no connection to currently living men or male ancestors, my perception is that I am being partially blamed for the actions of others with whom I share no kinship, and my own actions are scrutinized more than similar actions made by females.

Edited April 19, 2020 by zanshin