Animal Flesh and the Fall of Man.

[eye_of_the_storm]

I have now come across a number of texts that attribute eating meat with a fall from grace of some kind.

Abraham (Judaism, Christianity, Islam - I am assuming they all have a similar Genesis + Garden of Eden story) - Before the fall man lived in harmony with all animals / was a steward of the earth.

Vedas - Kali Yuga... fall of man began with the slaughter of cows.

Many references to a Golden Age East to West (Harmony)

I think Zoroastrianism sums things up pretty nicely though.

 

In one of the earlier legends in Ferdowsi’s epic the Shahnameh, Zahhak was the 'foreign' (perhaps Assyrian who Ferdowsi 'Arabized') king who overthrew legendary Aryan King Jamshid. In the story immediately below, Ahriman, the devil incarnate (Iblis, the Islamic word for the devil, is used in place of Ahriman in some Shahnameh translations) brings Zahhak under his control by becoming his cook and seducing him with the taste of meat. Zahhak develops a taste and fondness for meat and comes under the control of Ahriman, a div (evil being).

...

When Ferdowsi made the devil, Ahriman/Iblis the initiator of eating slaughtered animal flesh, he couldn’t have made his point about the ethics of eating animal flesh for food more emphatically. Perhaps Ferdowsi was trying to say that meat-eating is an addiction to which people become a slave. Once gripped by the taste of meat and blood, Zahhak became a slave to Ahriman. Since the practice of meat-eating requires killing life, it is not hard to see that the practice is placed under the domain of Ahriman, the Lord of Death, the lord of not-life. Ferdowsi’s principal source is reputed to be the Middle Persian Pahlavi Zoroastrian work, the Khvatay-Namak (Khodai-Nama).

 

http://zoroastrianheritage.blogspot.com.au/2011/07/were-ancient-iranians-zoroastrians.html

Edited April 30, 2013 by White Wolf Running On Air

[eye_of_the_storm]

I think one of the greatest steps toward world peace is in practicing a vegetarian diet.

People talk about how crazy and violent the world is / becoming... and will sit down to a dinner of slaughter cow... meat still red and full of blood.

As the world becomes more insane / violent access to meat + its consumption is also increasing globally... 150 billion animals now slaughtered every year...

Despite every world religion having vegetarianism as its ideal.

Christianity, Islam, Hinduism, Buddhism. Sikhism, Judaism, Bahaism, Confucianism, Jainism, Shintoism

Edited April 30, 2013 by White Wolf Running On Air

[baiqi]

...you just forgot religious taoism!

 

And some greek philosophers as well...

[Marblehead]

I think that if one looks at the scientific evidence one would find that it is because the ape that we were ate meat that allowed its brain to grow and develop which led to the humans that we now are.

 

Animals live and animals die. What difference is there between an ant eating the dead and a human eating the dead. The dead are eaten none-the-less.

 

Sure, I grant you that many animals are produced in an inhumane way so that the producer can turn a bigger profit. But really, that is the nature of many humans.

 

What difference is there between a lion killing a zebra and eating it and a man killing a chicken and eating it? None, really. Just Nature's processes.

[eye_of_the_storm]

Just listing the top 10 by population size.

[eye_of_the_storm]

All those religions + all those sages etc...over all that time... all wrong?

What are we doing here?

Are we man or animal?

I'd say some animals become human eventually.

Some say evolution was a result of psychedelic mushrooms.

Some say evolution is a poor theory... of which Darwin himself disbelieved.

Some believe in a de evolution... that we came from the heavens etc "Golden Age" again... humans fell from grace... being once immortal.

Some believe in "creative evolution" a combination of creationism + evolution.

... Dinosaurs ate meat? are there reptoids with human or above intelligence walking around?

Crocodiles? Sharks? Insects? lions? birds? + other carnivorous beasts... when did they land on the moon?

Some monkeys eat other monkeys... yet to see them light a fire.

Edited April 30, 2013 by White Wolf Running On Air

[Stosh]

Cavemen ate mostly meat , and

evolved into us.

so

Who says man fell ? man rose !

dominated life on the face of the globe

and now we have to get our

responsibilites squared away.

 

Telling folks to be docile

runs contrary

to killing-- running fighting animals

Small children equate themselves with

beasts and are unsetled at the prospect of their own

slaughter.

Children grow up and one presumes that they

will become mature adults , and recognize

that they arent the family pet.

( they dont always)

[eye_of_the_storm]

We have many mythologies from all parts of the planet... floods, Atlantis ... civilizations greater than our own... rise and fall.

I imagine some catastrophic event may have forced man to eat meat.

The "caveman" being the survivors of that event.

They talk of say Sumeria + other civilizations appearing "out of nowhere" ... there can be found no lead up to the creation of these "out of the box" peoples with complete languages, engineering + agriculture etc...

Edited April 30, 2013 by White Wolf Running On Air

[Cheshire Cat]

I think that if one looks at the scientific evidence one would find that it is because the ape that we were ate meat that allowed its brain to grow and develop which led to the humans that we now are.

 

This is an hypothesis.

Scientific facts demonstrate that a vegetarian diet prolongs life and saves from many sickness. Do they suppose that by drinking mercury we could evolve further?

 

I'm vegetarian and it is a matter of respect for life.

People say "vegetables are alive, too".

Yes, but to raise a meat cow you feed her with vegetables: you sacrifice vegetables + animals.

Hence, to be vegetarian means much less harm.

 

Humans were hunters since time immemorial. To live in the wild means the right to kill and to be killed.

Hunter and prey is the way of nature.

Today, we are out of this game.

 

But to purposefully raise an animal for his meat is an horrible thing.

Yet, this could be sustained when your animals live an happy and protected life. This is the way of the ancients: 10 animals live protected by men and in payment for this, men eat one animal once a year.

Today, animals are exploited, we give them pain and sorrow to taste palatable dishes.

This is the topmost madness.

Edited April 30, 2013 by DAO rain TAO

[Stosh]

Eating delicious food which is low in glycemic index is not madness but wisdom

 

Grain based diets are clearly detrimental and are linked to both -crowded abnormal city living

and reduced health (versus pre-agricultural standards) including but not limited to diabetes

and shows respect for living ( as opposed to the sickness of masochism and self debasement )

 

Jains may also sweep the ground before themselves and cover thier mouths to avoid killing bugs ,( from what Ive read )

The bugs themselves- neither respect nor expect- these bizzarre compulsions and are happy to feed on Jains.

Edited April 30, 2013 by Stosh

[blindeye]

Micro organisms and genetic material from the blood of animals gets incorporated into human dna? The main news presented to the public after the Human Genome Project stated that "yes, humans have reptile, swine and fruit fly dna" some micro organisms consume matter from human blood that is need to make dna. Then there are many bugs that have been in the human population so long that human immune systems no long act upon, like the organisms that cause moles. Maybe moles have a lower frequency than regular skin and let more electricity in from the atmosphere? Funny, around 30 years ago they were spraying a chemical on the human popolated areas that served to alter the dna of fruit flies. Maybe having pathogen from certain animals dna prevents the 90% of human "junk dna"

from being acfive? I mean if everything has its own frequency or resonance and all frequency of the human body resonate together as one tone, then maybe introducing just a few bits that don't belong at the core of creation as dna might lower our tone? Maybe a long time ago eating certain kinds of animals was important for humanity to develope, but now in this age hunting is mostly not needed. Well, there's a big deal about GMO grains and such, but what would they have started with, cows or wheat? ..wheat used to be the staff of life.

Swine dna that we carry comes from a animal that has no immune system' it just carries everything with it. I wonder what part of their genetic potential we inherited?

Edited April 30, 2013 by blindeye

[eye_of_the_storm]

True. I think if we are mixing / eating blood that blood/ tissue gets mixed and may alter our own DNA + expression and thoughts.

Whereas fruit and vegetables contain water + light codes from the sun.

Edited April 30, 2013 by White Wolf Running On Air

[Stosh]

Even things like wheat produce chemicals like phytoestrogen which affects the human constitution.

Unless one doesnt eat anything one will be affected

and it may just be that exposure to various things actually completes the human system of development

 

Humans evolved not eating much grain but greenery and animals primarily, its a 'natural' diet.

Not knowing all the particulars, one is wisely pointed by Lt amd Ct towards that which is natural

rather than that which is dictated by post-agricultural pre-industrial societal affectation of the human condition.

 

The bizzarre attitude about eating normal foods is affectation , abnormal !

Sure many folks want to humiliate themselves , but one only does it intentionally, if they are committed to some crazy abstract about right and wrong , so those who DO avoid meat are trying to prove their religious devotion (albeit, in a self destructive manner) to either themselves or others.

The contorted gamesmanship of the humiliation ,has the payoff of patting themselves on thier own back that they are superior to those that dont humiliate themselves.

 

How do you know he's the King ?

He hasnt got sh## all over 'im.

 

Edited April 30, 2013 by Stosh

[eye_of_the_storm]

I agree with the grains.

No right or wrong? what are you doing here?

[hydrogen]

Have you tasted a veggie burger? It's dreadful.

 

If you can come up with faux meat that tastes good, I'll have it regularly and reduce my meat consumption.

[Stosh]

I agree with the grains.

 

No right or wrong? what are you doing here?

 

 

I am against the self righteous vegetarian thing

Its not virtuous IMO

so on a Tao site

someone should contradict-

if not outright balance the argument.

Which 'goes to' several more significant subjects

what is tao virtue

what is natural

what is feeding the ego

 

The thread tiltle relates food to virtue again

eat what the heck you please though

Edited April 30, 2013 by Stosh

[blindeye]

Jun 12, 2012 – Researchers discovered living stem cells in human corpses that were 17 days old, ... and his colleagues were curious to see how long stem cells might keep ticking after a person died. ... Facebook, Yahoo, AOL, Windows Live ...Jun 12, 2012 – Researchers discovered living stem cells in human corpses that were 17 days old, ... and his colleagues were curious to see how long stem cells might keep ticking after a person died. ...

 

Stem cells out live the souls part in the body and blood cells lives 120 days, then to the individual consciousness of a red blood cell the stem cell would seem immortal, lasting 240ish times it's own life span. ..Highlander

 

When an animal is killed it goes immediately into decay. When a fruit or plant it picked, they aso begin to decay, however a plant will reroot if returned to the earth and bare fruit that contains a germ of life. What is this germ most essential? There are minerals in meat, but in plants minerals take on a patern like a crystal that bends light in just the right way. So, which one meat or plants provide more of a germ of life? ..where is the germ or stem cell of a plant, in it's root? Maybe what seems most important is the immortal part of anything. If cattle had immortal cells would they not be put to better use and McDonald's (plug) be the Holly Grail of the new pure land? Well, they do grow their own wheat

[Cheshire Cat]

Well, although there is much to say, I will point just the daoist thing because many people seems to be heartless.

 

Nature provides every living beings with the capabilities to eat the food from which they can take the best for their maintenance.

Hence, carnivores can hunt and digest meat. Their stomach destroys harmful bacteria, etc...

 

If you claim to be carnivore, then nature should provide you with everything you need to -at the very least- take your portion of meat from a dead body without external instrument, eat it without cooking and digest it.

Your body cannot accomplish those tasks, except for some little birds and some fishes... try to take your beef from a dead cow

Edited April 30, 2013 by DAO rain TAO

[blindeye]

Maybe at one time wheat really was the staff of life, but the germ in the seed altered genetically or otherwise to weed out what is essential to immortality. Perhapse the same was done to cattle that for many generation were injected with antibiotics (microorganisms) making unfit for food or immortality. Do allhumans have stem cells? All plants or animals? ...

Edited April 30, 2013 by blindeye

[Stosh]

Well, although there is much to say, I will point just the daoist thing because many people seems to be heartless.

 

Nature provides every living beings with the capabilities to eat the food from which they can take the best for their maintenance.

Hence, carnivores can hunt and digest meat. Their stomach destroys harmful bacteria, etc...

 

If you claim to be carnivore, then nature should provide you with everything you need to -at the very least- take your portion of meat from a dead body without external instrument, eat it without cooking and digest it.

Your body cannot accomplish those tasks, except for some little birds and some fishes... try to take your beef from a dead cow

Fire has been around a lot longer than civilization , it makes additional foods edible , thats the benefit of cooking, try eating some uncooked taro.

The plant is inedible when raw and considered toxic due to the presence of calcium oxalate^[6][7] crystals, typically as raphides. The toxin is minimized by cooking,^[8] especially with a pinch of baking soda. It can also be reduced by steeping taro roots in cold water overnight. Calcium oxalate is highly insoluble and contributes to kidney stones. It has been recommended to consume milk or other calcium-rich foods together with taro.^[9]

 

^{Jun 12, 2012 – Researchers discovered living stem cells in human corpses that were 17 days old, ... and his colleagues were curious to see how long stem cells might keep ticking after a person died. ... Facebook, Yahoo, AOL, Windows Live ...Jun 12, 2012 – Researchers discovered living stem cells in human corpses that were 17 days old, ... and his colleagues were curious to see how long stem cells might keep ticking after a person died. ... Stem cells out live the souls part in the body and blood cells lives 120 days, then to the individual consciousness of a red blood cell the stem cell would seem immortal, lasting 240ish times it's own life span. ..Highlander When an animal is killed it goes immediately into decay. When a fruit or plant it picked, they aso begin to decay, however a plant will reroot if returned to the earth and bare fruit that contains a germ of life. What is this germ most essential? There are minerals in meat, but in plants minerals take on a patern like a crystal that bends light in just the right way. So, which one meat or plants provide more of a germ of life? ..where is the germ or stem cell of a plant, in it's root? Maybe what seems most important is the immortal part of anything. If cattle had immortal cells would they not be put to better use and McDonald's (plug) be the Holly Grail of the new pure land? Well, they do grow their own wheat}

^{I dont get your point there , is it that we should grow meat in test tubes ? well that would be highly efficient and since animals also have stem cells - I imagine at some point it will be done .}

Edited April 30, 2013 by Stosh

[Vanir Thunder Dojo Tan]

I think that if one looks at the scientific evidence one would find that it is because the ape that we were ate meat that allowed its brain to grow and develop which led to the humans that we now are.

 

Animals live and animals die. What difference is there between an ant eating the dead and a human eating the dead. The dead are eaten none-the-less.

 

Sure, I grant you that many animals are produced in an inhumane way so that the producer can turn a bigger profit. But really, that is the nature of many humans.

 

What difference is there between a lion killing a zebra and eating it and a man killing a chicken and eating it? None, really. Just Nature's processes.

 

Name one other creature that corrals animals up for the slaughter and mass consumption?

 

Ants dont build pastures, wolves dont breed their prey, and lions dont keep foxes out of chicken coops.

 

 

There is a right way to consume the flesh of another person, and there is a wrong way to do it.

 

 

If you do it the wrong way, their energies will curse ignorant consumers.

But if done properly, anyone who is eaten will have PRIDE that their lives were not in vain!

[blindeye]

Why would scientists want to create a hybrid human-cow embryo?

 

Holly-Cow batman?

 

Looks like they're already doing it!!

 

 

This week, a group of London-based scientists requested official permission from the UK's Human Fertilisation and Embryology Authority to begin a three-year study involving embryonic stem cells. But these aren't any old embryonic stem cells they want to investigate; these are stem cells derived from hybrid human-cow embryos. They want to create a chimera -- a single, living entity that incorporates two completely separate species in its DNA.

 

Stem cells are cells found primarily in embryos, and they have not yet taken on the characteristics of any particular type of cell, such as bone, muscle tissue or brain matter. Because.. http://science.howstuffworks.com/life/genetic/human-cow-embryo.htm

[blindeye]

I'll bet the first publicly available injections of harvested "immortal cells" will go for billions in cash.

 

 

[Vanir Thunder Dojo Tan]

Cavemen ate mostly meat , and

evolved into us.

so

Who says man fell ? man rose !

dominated life on the face of the globe

and now we have to get our

responsibilites squared away.

 

Telling folks to be docile

runs contrary

to killing-- running fighting animals

Small children equate themselves with

beasts and are unsetled at the prospect of their own

slaughter.

Children grow up and one presumes that they

will become mature adults , and recognize

that they arent the family pet.

( they dont always)

 

 

Your mind sickens me to a morbid and suicidal extent. please do not promote the disgusting and psychotic heirchy of civilization. please. nothing you've said here is genuine truth, but filtered through civilized agenda to appear that nature is somehow "wrong" and civilization somehow "has" authority thereover.

 

This single post has left me feeling physically sick.

[Vanir Thunder Dojo Tan]

I'll bet the first publicly available injections of harvested "immortal cells" will go for billions in cash.

its called cancer. they're still working on making it NOT kill us.