Animal Flesh and the Fall of Man.

[liminal_luke]

It's great to look at a cow and see a friend. What do you see though when you look at a human being who eats meat? Someone like me, for instance. Do you see a friend because I'm not feeling it. I'm not getting a peaceful vibe. No, what I'm feeling from you is anger, perhaps the sense of hurt that comes from feeling like a victim, smug self-righteousness. Maybe I'm wrong and you're none of those things. Maybe I'm just generalizing from previous experience. You see, I've known my share of hostile, bitter vegans. Certainly some vegetarians are truly peaceful (towards humans as well as animals) but there's a strong contingent who only respect you if you eat like them.

[Flolfolil]

You see, I've known my share of hostile, bitter vegans. there's a strong contingent who only respect you if you eat like them.

THIS THIS THIS A THOUSAND TIMES THIS

 

Your philosophies of no harm don't work if you just shit all over everyone who is different than you.

[eye_of_the_storm]

Most animals I see as being in a state of innocence.

Cows... specifically don't harm anyone... they just eat grass / maybe they inadvertently get a few bugs.

Adult humans I don't see as innocent.

I don't know you so I can't say really.

I do have friends who eat meat yes.

I don't have philosophies of no harm... more of protect the innocent + seek the truth.

Only concerned about your own feelings? Your love of self.... so much that you will kill others.

Is this not why the world is the way it is today?

What should I be more concerned about, your feelings or innocent animals going through horrific pain and terror?

It would be worth watching some footage of what happens.

Anger at you personally? no.

Edited April 30, 2013 by White Wolf Running On Air

[eye_of_the_storm]

Really it is social conditioning.

Not many have considered alternatives.

Even if those alternatives have health benefits... the blood lust is too strong.

Somewhat like families who for generations have voted the same way (politically)... just because.

To research and make up your mind is one thing... to understand the system is broken top to bottom is another and so on.

Somewhat like the idea of being a man = drinking beer and watching football.

Have I offended more with that statement?

Edited April 30, 2013 by White Wolf Running On Air

[hydrogen]

If one can't show another person, who is supposely buddha at heart, feel the love. It'll be almost impossible to make a cow feel the love.

[eye_of_the_storm]

Is the cow not Buddha at heart? Isn't every atom Buddha?

[Flolfolil]

Isn't every atom Buddha?

then why does anything matter at all?

[eye_of_the_storm]

Aditi (Sanskrit अदिति (limitless), from "a" (alpha privative) + "diti" (bound), which is from the Proto Indo-European root "da" (to bind)). In the Vedas Aditi is a sky goddess and mother of the gods (devamatr) from whose cosmic matrix the heavenly bodies were born.

 

Aditi is sometimes associated with or identified as a cow.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aditi

 

The supreme good is like water,

which nourishes all things without trying to.

It is content with the low places that people disdain.

Thus it is like the Tao. (Cow?)

 

What if you found out that the Cow was the Mother of all Gods?

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited April 30, 2013 by White Wolf Running On Air

[eye_of_the_storm]

then why does anything matter at all?

 

How would you be in front of a Buddha?

 

How would you be if you knew yourself to be Buddha?

 

What would Buddha do?

 

 

[Flolfolil]

How would you be in front of a Buddha?

 

How would you be if you knew yourself to be Buddha?

 

What would Buddha do?

1. i would be exactly the same

2.i would be exactly the same

3.i don't pretend to know this

 

But i would most certainly continue to eat meat because i don't believe in universal absolute morality. That's your illusion of how the world works.

[Flolfolil]

Now answer MY question: what do you hope to gain with this thread?

 

i will prepare some possible answers:

 

1.You care for the wellbeing of all creatures and honestly don't want to see them hurt

2.You were told by other peoples' teachings that you should be this way, so you obey

3.You have seen the horrors of the meat industry, and your emotions got the best of you, so now you are on a crusade

4.You believe you are better than other people because you do things your way and you want to rub it in their faces

5.You actually think that posting a thread like this is going to convince meat eaters to stop

6.You just want to have a circle jerk with other vegetarians and talk about how awesome you are

 

You think about those options for a while. Now that i have told you these things, you can choose to look at yourself in the mirror or not.

[Marblehead]

This is an hypothesis.

Scientific facts demonstrate that a vegetarian diet prolongs life and saves from many sickness. Do they suppose that by drinking mercury we could evolve further?

I didn't say it was a fact but I did say there is evidence that indicates such. It is had to gather facts of something that happened 3.5 to 4 million years ago.

 

I would question those facts as I have yet to see a worthy scientific investigation of determining whether vegetarians live longer than do carnivores.

 

No, drinking mercury was for becoming immortal. Didn't work, of course.

 

I'm vegetarian and it is a matter of respect for life.

People say "vegetables are alive, too".

Yes, but to raise a meat cow you feed her with vegetables: you sacrifice vegetables + animals.

Hence, to be vegetarian means much less harm.

I have no problem with a person wanting to be a vegetarian. I have seen some very healthy and intelligent people who are vegetarians.

 

Yes, I have said that too but only out of play. But true, plants are living things too.

 

I grant you that less harm is done by eating only plant foods.

 

Humans were hunters since time immemorial. To live in the wild means the right to kill and to be killed.

Hunter and prey is the way of nature.

Today, we are out of this game.

Not all of us are out of that game. There are still many societies that are hunter/gatherers. And there are many in the developed world who save money by hunting their own food. Plus, we humans have killed off most of the hunter animals so the prey animals would very quickly over-populate if not culled.

 

But to purposefully raise an animal for his meat is an horrible thing.

Yet, this could be sustained when your animals live an happy and protected life. This is the way of the ancients: 10 animals live protected by men and in payment for this, men eat one animal once a year.

Today, animals are exploited, we give them pain and sorrow to taste palatable dishes.

This is the topmost madness.

Not horrible - efficient. I would argue with the rest of this paragraph as it is pretty much valid.

[Vanir Thunder Dojo Tan]

"advantage" is only a desire, not a necessity. "advantage" is a means to an end, but no ends are intrinsically necessary apart from want and desire.

We want and desire good health, so we have an advantage with our analytical brains to detect causality and avoid harmful elements.

The irony is that we have unwittingly become our harmful element, and thus lost the "advantage".
Or rather i cant say we lost it, but gave it away. we gave our intrinsic nature away, to "civilized progress[ion]", and effectively diverted the course of evolution; from upward, via the human ladder to downward: Via the civilian/citizen ladder.

The humanimal might be at a disadvantage in the quantification of life, but all citizens and civilians and soldiers and politicians and "leaders" have assumed the disadvantage in the qualification of life.

I wouldnt call living wi8thout surviving every day truly LIVING. if you dont have to fight for survival, you're pretty much not alive in the first place.

Which is why i am happy to have found breathing exercises... by deliberately suffocating myself through overextended in/exhales, i remind my body of its own fragility and it thus becomes stronger by one breath.

I would rather evolve as a stronger independent biological organism than (d)evolve as an organically fragile techno-co-dependent cyborg.

To be balanced and able to use tools and technology, but not wholly dependent on them for survival; that is Living.

How many of us are honestly living? I cant even drink clean water without technology designed to "cover up" other technological blunders which have poisoned the water tables! That isnt my doing, and yet i suffer the consequences of corporate industrial interests without reprise.

The attempted dominion of the human spirit will result in extremely violent backlash. that is not a threat, but a warning. you dont call it a threat when you advise people not to feed the bears.

I am merely trying to advise humans not to trade off their Humanity and organic living, for civility and mechanized existing.

[Marblehead]

Micro organisms and genetic material from the blood of animals gets incorporated into human dna? The main news presented to the public after the Human Genome Project stated that "yes, humans have reptile, swine and fruit fly dna" some micro organisms consume matter from human blood that is need to make dna.

That is a misrepresentation of the truth. All animals have quantities of DNA that are common to all. The chimp and man are 98% identical. Even a person who has been vegetarian all their life will show the same results.

[Marblehead]

Jun 12, 2012 – Researchers discovered living stem cells in human corpses that were 17 days old, ... and his colleagues were curious to see how long stem cells might keep ticking after a person died. ...

There are billions of bacteria and microbes on and in our body that do not die immediately when we die.

[eye_of_the_storm]

I don't know if you'd be exactly the same.

I don't have the answers just questions.

Looking back at my own life I have changed many times / learning more and so on.

> As per OP ... the possession of humanity by a wicked spirit / enslaving humanity via consumption of animal flesh + blood lust... and the resulting "Fall from Grace" as indicated by 3 distinct world religions.

... which I think I said before more or less... that I believe there is something to this thought.

Even if it is just how different foods alter ones state of mind.

I think it is a path to world peace... if the slaughter of 150 billion animals a year was considerably reduced would that change the energetics of the earth?

I have watched a number of videos of animals suffering + human cruelty (hell on earth), I had never considered before and decided I must be responsible for what I eat... I no longer wanted to be a part of it.

It has nothing to do with me (other than me sharing the information) ... peace for animals is all... + hopefully this will bring some peace to the world in general.

Do you have animals? did you grow up with animals? dog, cat?

Edited April 30, 2013 by White Wolf Running On Air

[Marblehead]

 

Name one other creature that corrals animals up for the slaughter and mass consumption?

 

 

Dolphins and killer whales both do. And there are some fish that do this. Lions do it. Wolves do it. Shall I go on?

[Marblehead]

But if done properly, anyone who is eaten will have PRIDE that their lives were not in vain!

I would rather not be eaten, thank you.

[Vanir Thunder Dojo Tan]

then why does anything matter at all?

 

Because we forget our true and intrinsic nature/"original face" when we are born and are "educated" by our equally ignorant peers.

[Vanir Thunder Dojo Tan]

I would rather not be eaten, thank you.

you would prefer your body be wasted, fester in the ground as rot? if your body is burned up, it is eaten by fire, so it is still used.

 

Fire is the ultimate uniting body- everything it consumes is dispersed into the environment for all to share...

 

 

Would you truly rather your physical resources (body) be wasted when you die? "i pray the lord my toys to break"? Marbles?

[Marblehead]

Compassion... self righteousness? haha

 

Is what I propose false In terms of creating a more peaceful world?

 

Really your heart is cold and you feel no love... perhaps this is due to eating meat (too much of a predator mind / cold blooded)

 

I look at a cow and I see a friend... what do you see?

 

 

I look at a cow and see a cow. I look at my fish and see fish. (No, I do not eat my fish.)

 

What you propose is valid and worthy. But for whom? Yourself. Some others. But not all people. Many don't even want to hear about your proposals of all humans becoming vegeratians.

[eye_of_the_storm]

I look at a cow and see a cow. I look at my fish and see fish. (No, I do not eat my fish.)

 

What you propose is valid and worthy. But for whom? Yourself. Some others. But not all people. Many don't even want to hear about your proposals of all humans becoming vegeratians.

 

For whom? the animals really... and human(e)ity indirectly.

[Marblehead]

Deny this, i dare you. ... But try to provide proof so we know why we're laughing at you.

I deny what you have said. Don't like civilization? How about a one-way trip to darkest Africa? (But beware, some of those tribes are still cannibals.)

[Marblehead]

I just found the OP interesting and thought some others may.

 

Some sitting on the fence... may find interesting too.

 

I am not here really to convince anyone of anything.

 

I did not force anyone to read this thread - the title shows its intent.

 

I do not understand why people who eat meat follow me around and try to justify why they eat meat... I never asked you to do such a thing... and then call me self righteous? seems a little hypocritical.

 

Many people eat meat...I once did also, don't take it personally.

 

 

The reason you have followers is that you made a false statement and many are trying to explain to you the truth behind your error.

[eye_of_the_storm]

Are you 100% certain it is false?