Animal Flesh and the Fall of Man.

[Vanir Thunder Dojo Tan]

dude, buffalo is some of the best meat teeth can sink into!! send me some?

[hydrogen]

I'm still with you Stosh but I am also enjoying watching you fight your own battles. Hang in there. Shall we have buffalo burgers for supper tonight?

 

That's how you show your love to a cow: kill the buffalo?

 

I had some good buffalo burger at Ted's grill. But it's a little too lean and gamy. I still prefer the cow burger. Sorry, the cow must die.

[Marblehead]

dude, buffalo is some of the best meat teeth can sink into!! send me some?

Hehehe. Actually, I have never eaten it and rarely eat any kind of red meat. Seafood and fowl, yes.

[Marblehead]

That's how you show your love to a cow: kill the buffalo?

 

I had some good buffalo burger at Ted's grill. But it's a little too lean and gamy. I still prefer the cow burger. Sorry, the cow must die.

Hehehe to you too. I will let the cow live so I can have the milk, butter and cheese. I love cheese, especially many imported European cheeses.

[Vanir Thunder Dojo Tan]

That's how you show your love to a cow: kill the buffalo?

 

I had some good buffalo burger at Ted's grill. But it's a little too lean and gamy. I still prefer the cow burger. Sorry, the cow must die.

 

 

Actually, think of it as i do:

 

WE didnt kill the animal, but allowing its meat to go to waste is just as bad of us, as it is of the slaughterhouses that breed animals for their meat.

 

Honor that animals unconsensual slaughter by blessing its meat and asking forgiveness that you will participate in its consumption, as well as expressing your gratitude to the spirit of the person's body you are about to consume.

 

 

 

I feel no guilt in eating meat that i did not kill, however, i would be wreaked with guilt if i had been the one to perform the kill in an unritualistic manner, and furthermore allowed anything to be wasted.

 

 

Last but not least, minimize your consumption as best you can. it will take an involvement of the mass majority of people before justice will ever reach the animal kingdom.

 

Financial profiteering interests are the ONE AND ONLY cause and excuse for the mental illness that is Civilization.

 

to promote "Civilization" is to demote "humanization"

 

Humans are one side of the coin, citizens are the other.

What would you rather embrace? Humanity or civility?

 

Civilization is by no means an expression of Truth, ethics, spirituality, or respect. Let alone an example of harmonious lifeways. The "self-important" promotion of Civility is ANTI-harmony, and Dehumanizing.

 

 

 

[Cheshire Cat]

 

Cows dont wear shoes ,( those are for horses) and I dont want to walk a mile

to come to the obvious conclusion that animals arent the same as people.

They are cows

 

Please, consider that your body manifests the functions of living.

We could create a perfect copy of your body, but we cannot give it life.

 

Scientists say that life is a chemical condition... but they cannot create this mysterious chemical condition: it's just a theoretical guess.

Hence, in my opinion there's something behind the functions of living that cannot be explained by scientific means because they cannot replicate, nor even describe the exact phenomena.

 

Whatever this thing is...this thing behind the function of living... some call it "soul".

You share this thing with animals and trees because they are also living entities.

Intelligence and personality are matter of external conditions like developing a big brain or good teachers... but life is something that doesn't need a teacher: it's internal.

So, on the external you are different from a cow, but internally you are the same.

All primitive hunters use to tribute respect to their prey because they respect life.

 

Sages consider wise to respect life... but as you see, slaughter houses are the systematical exploitation of life.

Now, I'm not talking about vegetarianism in particular: I'm talking about the way people play as carnivores.

 

Don't be fool.

This is insane: not caring for the internal, people live for the external thinking that it's all that matter.

 

http://youtu.be/sAR4FhgbQy8

 

 

 

[Vanir Thunder Dojo Tan]

uhhh.... that video kind of breaks my heart, but eh... that's besides the point, im wondering what it had to do with (anything)?

[Stosh]

I'm still with you Stosh but I am also enjoying watching you fight your own battles. Hang in there. Shall we have buffalo burgers for supper tonight?

Ground up cow for me tonight, though I have tried the buffalo and prefer it like lamb and veal. It comes down to economics. I'm glad I am entertaining you.

[Vanir Thunder Dojo Tan]

buffalo and cow dont compare. well, i suppose you can give free range beef a shot at comparison, but buffalo cannot be legally herded or farmed/bred for the slaughter. Buffalo is strictly a free range wild animal. If cows were too, im sure their meat would be 5,000% better than it is now, but i still think buffalo is 10,000% better than current market beef

[Stosh]

DRT,

Assuming Gil is a cow on the inside, isn't saying something nice, (she certainly ain't no cow on the outside!)

Her ethics-,,, Well , she might be considered a loose woman. But we just don't know anything very much at all about her. I would like to find out more before I rendered judgement.

Tao doest say sex is bad, sure she is showing off for money, so what! We all have to things for currency.If we knew that she was in a committed relationship and her beau was very hurt, we could say something negative. But we don't, so we would be wronging her, it would be like giving her a spanking for being a bad girl that she might not deserve.

 

[Stosh]

buffalo and cow dont compare. well, i suppose you can give free range beef a shot at comparison, but buffalo cannot be legally herded or farmed/bred for the slaughter. Buffalo is strictly a free range wild animal. If cows were too, im sure their meat would be 5,000% better than it is now, but i still think buffalo is 10,000% better than current market beef

I surprisingly agree entirely.

[Stosh]

But seriously DRT,

We agree to a point, and I guess, its right after describing the qualitative difference between humans and beasts.Human cognition and spirit, as far as we can tell, is really a human only thing. Sure beasts have emotions and bodies too, and I am not sure I would be comfortable eating primate meat, but apart from that all bets are off, and I need to eat just like they do, so in no way shape or form should I entertain reservations about it, and it certainly doesn't mean I am heartless.maybe you draw the line at vegetables maybe with eggs , , birds fish etc. But there is always a line , which one does cross, be it walking on grass or using oxygen, or just using resources. The world is finite, there are no free lunches. There will always be a point at which you are guilty of putting yourself ahead of something somebody, and there is nothing wrong with that.

Edited May 1, 2013 by Stosh

[Vanir Thunder Dojo Tan]

All i ask is that you consider the person you are eating to actually have had personhood before they were killed so you could consume their flesh.


Im sure they would appreciate your consideration more than i would.


Have you ever felt an emotion? That's something genuinely shared by animals, but they are SO ALIEN to humans that their expressions are by and large ignored by "intellectuals" who think they "know" better than to believe in such childish fantasies as universal personhood and spirituality...


ALL i ask is that you consider the person you are about to eat was once a living, breathing, aware person. not HUMAN person, but personhood is not reserved for humans alone. no one has any such authority of truth as to make any such claims pertaining to who "isnt" a person...

But i ask... if i were to corral, pasturize, and slaughter your offspring... how would you feel?

THAT is where empathy can surface. apply that emotional attachment you have to your own loved ones to the people who die so you can eat their bodies. That is how we can know if you are heartless or not. are you willing to empathize with your meal?

[Stosh]

Like I said way back inthe thread, if the stuation was reversed, me or the cow-person, I wouldn't be happy about being the meal. But you are not a cow.

[Vanir Thunder Dojo Tan]

Like I said way back inthe thread, if the stuation was reversed, me or the cow-person, I wouldn't be happy about being the meal. But you are not a cow.

 

*sigh* it's so simple and yet you seem to refuse to even consider thinking about it for even a moment, as if it would taint and corrupt and defile your humanity, to put your mind in the body of a cow...

 

 

Why? it actually hurts me to read this stuff, but im not saying you're wrong, i just cannot comprehend.

[Marblehead]

I guess it is time to post this link:

 

http://www.foxnews.com/science/2013/05/01/scientists-find-evidence-cannibalism-at-jamestown/

 

Humans will do what they feel they must do.

[Stosh]

Yep, the jamestown thing can really surprise folks to find out about idealized history debunked
I've read more than a few such accounts , surmounting to a conclusion that at some point all peoples have examples of cannibalism in the past.
If I had to , I am pretty sure I would eat anybody freshly dead already, but would likely play the waiting game first...I can think of a few exceptions though.

And though you can profess otherwise, as many have before you..

Why reading about eating bothers you is probably taboos and admitting your basic human basis.
The cow or pig would eat me, they do eat animal meal, and if I am no better than they, I can eat them, if I am better or worse than them , then there is a fundamental difference between us.,, either way things look grim for the cow.

Edited May 3, 2013 by Stosh

[blindeye]

My cats are always catching lizards and it makes me sad because I like reptile minds.

Maybe every species like their unique forms also have unique minds that humans are able to communicate with because they are emotionaly compatible and need interspecies mind-to mind communication

 

In this sense animals are the teachers of humanity because they have abilties we do not and so get to experience feelings that humans do not. Cats and ants can see and sense lay lines and the infrared world. Bee's see a very wide spectrum

Some fish see exactly as humans do. Praying mantis brain wave frequency are constantly far above common human potential. Japanese humans brains operate in a higher state than the rest of the world.

 

Maybe distiction between body form, apppearance and species can be decided by what dimentions they see and what mind frequency they posess. God (hindi) first appeared as a fish ..how do fish hear? (Christian) ..the name of god is a sound .. do most humans hear it? ..which animals, insects, trees, snake (siva) do...? There are kinds that do and do not spend their time typing on line. If physical prowess keeness of mind and emotional calm allow supra human ability, then maybe our """animal-mind,ed""" cousins deserve respect?

 

The beings any species can communicate with are attracted to their own like-mind type.

 

How many types of mind are there? Are hearts (emotional center) all the same in mamals since we all come from the earth? ..ah (whole new can of worms) is the Earth that all living beings come from alive her self? What level of consciousness does she posess? Does the lower part of the earths mind that plays a role literally inside the earth as a worm serve no purpose in the evoluton of her? There are many kinds of minds and many levels of being. .. being disrespectful of any who play their part well , whether victim or victor, preditor, or prey leads to..?

[eye_of_the_storm]

It appears those more me-orientated seem to find it difficult to believe that other people will actually do things that does not benefit them personally /directly.

That people only do things for personal gain as that is how they live their own life / world view + behaviour.

So when somebody "sacrifices" something for the greater good... for something beyond themself they think there is some ulterior motive.

[Cheshire Cat]

DRT, Assuming Gil is a cow on the inside, isn't saying something nice, (she certainly ain't no cow on the outside!) Her ethics-,,, Well , she might be considered a loose woman. But we just don't know anything very much at all about her. I would like to find out more before I rendered judgement. Tao doest say sex is bad, sure she is showing off for money, so what! We all have to things for currency.If we knew that she was in a committed relationship and her beau was very hurt, we could say something negative. But we don't, so we would be wronging her, it would be like giving her a spanking for being a bad girl that she might not deserve.

 

It's not about Gil because I respect her so much that I'm ready to marry her (@ Gil, PM me ).

It's not even about sex, but when everybody think that enjoying the body of a woman is the ultimate experience, then you know there's is something scaring in society.

 

But seriously DRT,

We agree to a point, and I guess, its right after describing the qualitative difference between humans and beasts.Human cognition and spirit, as far as we can tell, is really a human only thing. Sure beasts have emotions and bodies too, and I am not sure I would be comfortable eating primate meat, but apart from that all bets are off, and I need to eat just like they do, so in no way shape or form should I entertain reservations about it, and it certainly doesn't mean I am heartless.maybe you draw the line at vegetables maybe with eggs , , birds fish etc. But there is always a line , which one does cross, be it walking on grass or using oxygen, or just using resources. The world is finite, there are no free lunches. There will always be a point at which you are guilty of putting yourself ahead of something somebody, and there is nothing wrong with that.

This is an example of respect for life

 

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TqklTPCRLGI

 

 

 

 

This is a example of exploitation (so horrible that one should login with youtube to watch)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Can you see the different attitude?

Edited May 2, 2013 by DAO rain TAO

[eye_of_the_storm]

^ If anyone can watch that last video start to finish and tell me this is the peak of human expression... that this is what it is to be human, that these actions are one of GRACE and truly believe that...I will retire my account.

Edited May 2, 2013 by White Wolf Running On Air

[Marblehead]

My cats are always catching lizards and it makes me sad because I like reptile minds.

Yeah, that always irritated me too but rather because I wanted the lizards to live because they eat lots of bugs.

 

Japanese humans brains operate in a higher state than the rest of the world.

I won't accept "higher state" but I will accept "different state".

[Marblehead]

This is an example of respect for life

Yes, female cats of all species have been known to do this. You won't see a male doing it though. Likely maternal instinct.

[Marblehead]

^ If anyone can watch that last video start to finish and tell me this is the peak of human expression... that this is what it is to be human, that these actions are one of GRACE and truly believe that...I will retire my account.

Actually, I didn't even attempt to watch it because I didn't want to feel badly so early in the morning.

 

Many humans do evil things. Just a matter of fact.

[Cheshire Cat]

Yes, female cats of all species have been known to do this. You won't see a male doing it though. Likely maternal instinct.

 

It seems that this "maternal instinct" has no "practical value" in nature: what's the purpose of caring for children of other species?

Usually, in nature every instinct has a purpose. Am I right?

 

Actually, I didn't even attempt to watch it because I didn't want to feel badly so early in the morning.

 

Many humans do evil things. Just a matter of fact.

 

Please, plan to see that video in the future.