Animal Flesh and the Fall of Man.

[Marblehead]

It seems that this "maternal instinct" has no "practical value" in nature: what's the purpose of caring for children of other species?

Usually, in nature every instinct has a purpose. Am I right?

In a root manner of speaking, yes, you are right. However, we see the nurturing instinct of other species when the female cat has had some type for traumatic event in their life, like the loss of a litter or still birth. It is more of a replacement than anything else.

 

There was a very popular video on Youtube about a lioness caring for an antelope.. The video didn't include the whole story. The lioness had lost her first litter. While she was caring for the antelope she was not eating and basically starving herself. One day she was taking a nap and the antelope wandered off too far and a male lion took the antelope and had a nice meal. The lioness then returned to her pride and started eating again.

 

Please, plan to see that video in the future.

I will consider it but I have seen too many of those type of videos already. And remember, I was a career soldier and in combat in Vietnam. I know what the human animal is capable of.

 

 

BTW I didn't even watch the entire Gil video. I'm a 'hands-on" kind of guy. If I think I have no chance of touching it there is no need for me to look at it too long.

Edited May 2, 2013 by Marblehead

[hydrogen]

BTW I didn't even watch the entire Gil video. I'm a 'hands-on" kind of guy. If I think I have no chance of touching it there is no need for me to look at it too long.

 

man, you need learn how to meditate.

 

Maybe you can figure out the trick to turn those fantasy ladies into your companion in your lucid dream state or trance state.

 

I think TI has the tools to do it. But he doesn't seem to be interested. Please tell me how when you find it out.

[Marblehead]

man, you need learn how to meditate.

 

Maybe you can figure out the trick to turn those fantasy ladies into your companion in your lucid dream state or trance state.

 

I think TI has the tools to do it. But he doesn't seem to be interested. Please tell me how when you find it out.

WoW! I'm too old to even appreciate the dreams any more.

 

But don't get me wrong; I've had my fun. I would be a millionaire now if I hadn't spent all that money on women.

[hydrogen]

WoW! I'm too old to even appreciate the dreams any more.

 

But don't get me wrong; I've had my fun. I would be a millionaire now if I hadn't spent all that money on women.

 

Well, you can have them appreciate you. It'll be a glorious night spend with "God" for them. You can have them massage you, fetch you fancy drinks, bring you a juicy burger, and any other harmless fun you can imagine. Carry them to fly like Superman. You sure get the idea.

[Marblehead]

Well, you can have them appreciate you. It'll be a glorious night spend with "God" for them. You can have them massage you, fetch you fancy drinks, bring you a juicy burger, and any other harmless fun you can imagine. Carry them to fly like Superman. You sure get the idea.

Hehehe. I've done all that and more, thanks for the suggestion though.

 

Did I tell you about the lady who sang gospel music for me while we were engaged? Wait, maybe I shouldn't say anything.

[liminal_luke]

All i ask is that you consider the person you are eating to actually have had personhood before they were killed so you could consume their flesh.

 

 

 

I don't think chickens are people. I think chickens are chickens. That's not to say they don't have emotions. Honestly, I have no idea about the emotional life of a chicken but I'll grant you this: feeling a deep sense of gratitude and reverence for all that happened so that we can eat is a very, very good idea.

 

There's a principle in tai chi that everything is connected; the body moves as a single unit. Beginners wave their arms around as if they were rebel troops gone awol from the central command in the lower dan tian. A master moves seamlessly, a study in unity.

 

Can we eat a meal like a tai chi master does his form? Recognizing our seamless connection with the natural world, and indeed the broader universe....or do we tense up and hold ourselves apart from the rest of life? I'd rather eat a lamb chop with a grateful heart than a carrot with contempt.

Edited May 2, 2013 by liminal_luke

[Cheshire Cat]

but I'll grant you this: feeling a deep sense of gratitude and reverence for all that happened so that we can eat is a very, very good idea.

 

Do you feel a deep sense of gratitude and reverence for this?

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uTN2DgOzF34

[Cheshire Cat]

In a root manner of speaking, yes, you are right. However, we see the nurturing instinct of other species when the female cat has had some type for traumatic event in their life, like the loss of a litter or still birth. It is more of a replacement than anything else.

 

There was a very popular video on Youtube about a lioness caring for an antelope.. The video didn't include the whole story. The lioness had lost her first litter. While she was caring for the antelope she was not eating and basically starving herself. One day she was taking a nap and the antelope wandered off too far and a male lion took the antelope and had a nice meal. The lioness then returned to her pride and started eating again.

 

In the animal world, what you call "traumatic event" is as common as toothpaste in the U.S.

Almost any big cat who lives in the wild had some sort of traumatic event: probably, they would call it ordinary life.

[liminal_luke]

Dao rain Tao,

 

First off, I'm not holding myself out as someone whose diet, social consciousness, or spiritual attainments are anywhere near ideal. They aren't. When I talk about a "deep sense of reverence and gratitude" I'm articulating the direction I'd like to head in.

 

I doubt someone with the kind of consciousness I'm describing would spend much time at KFC. Along with the "feeling" of gratitude would come an effort to seek out meat that had been raised and slaughtered in a humane, compassionate way.

[rene]

http://aprilleflye.blogspot.com/2011/04/15-unique-women-who-breastfeed-animals.html

 

 

 

thoughts?

[Stosh]

My cats are always catching lizards and it makes me sad because I like reptile minds. Maybe every species like their unique forms also have unique minds that humans are able to communicate with because they are emotionaly compatible and need interspecies mind-to mind communication In this sense animals are the teachers of humanity because they have abilties we do not and so get to experience feelings that humans do not. Cats and ants can see and sense lay lines and the infrared world. Bee's see a very wide spectrum Some fish see exactly as humans do. Praying mantis brain wave frequency are constantly far above common human potential. Japanese humans brains operate in a higher state than the rest of the world. Maybe distiction between body form, apppearance and species can be decided by what dimentions they see and what mind frequency they posess. God (hindi) first appeared as a fish ..how do fish hear? (Christian) ..the name of god is a sound .. do most humans hear it? ..which animals, insects, trees, snake (siva) do...? There are kinds that do and do not spend their time typing on line. If physical prowess keeness of mind and emotional calm allow supra human ability, then maybe our """animal-mind,ed""" cousins deserve respect? The beings any species can communicate with are attracted to their own like-mind type. How many types of mind are there? Are hearts (emotional center) all the same in mamals since we all come from the earth? ..ah (whole new can of worms) is the Earth that all living beings come from alive her self? What level of consciousness does she posess? Does the lower part of the earths mind that plays a role literally inside the earth as a worm serve no purpose in the evoluton of her? There are many kinds of minds and many levels of being. .. being disrespectful of any who play their part well , whether victim or victor, preditor, or prey leads to..?

As far as I can tell its not a taoist idea , its still confusing yourself with an animal , and its still clinging to the ideas of rightness and wrongness.

[Stosh]

 

It appears those more me-orientated seem to find it difficult to believe that other people will actually do things that does not benefit them personally /directly.

 

That people only do things for personal gain as that is how they live their own life / world view + behaviour.

 

So when somebody "sacrifices" something for the greater good... for something beyond themself they think there is some ulterior motive.

 

 

Again ,self sacrifice isnt a taoist virtue. Thats more in line with some other group, and based on guilt, oh yeah Christians.

[Stosh]

It's not about Gil because I respect her so much that I'm ready to marry her (@ Gil, PM me ).

It's not even about sex, but when everybody think that enjoying the body of a woman is the ultimate experience, then you know there's is something scaring in society.

 

This is an example of respect for life

 

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TqklTPCRLGI

 

 

 

 

This is a example of exploitation (so horrible that one should login with youtube to watch)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Can you see the different attitude?

I never said that sex was the ultimate experience , you are confusing me with somebody else.

Those predators who adopt prey items like so , usually eat them somewhere down the line, they are just misapplying their natural instincts for the time being.

Beasts killing beasts, is still brutal --can even be hideous. I watched some of the vid ,It means nothing.

[Stosh]

^ If anyone can watch that last video start to finish and tell me this is the peak of human expression... that this is what it is to be human, that these actions are one of GRACE and truly believe that...I will retire my account.

That humans have some 'peak' expression is subjective opinion.

But then again , and personally, I wouldnt consider washing dishes to be the peak of human expression either.

again , your argument proves nothing.

[Stosh]

http://aprilleflye.blogspot.com/2011/04/15-unique-women-who-breastfeed-animals.html

 

 

 

thoughts?

I dont find it very appealing or normal, but maybe her breasts hurt.

If she has a kid already ,that kid is losing his lunch.

Should I post a vid of some dude banging a calf ?

Edited May 2, 2013 by Stosh

[hydrogen]

Have you heard about holocaust? The guy who behind it, Adolf Hitler was a vegetarian.

 

tell me about fall of man?

[rene]

I dont find it very appealing or normal, but maybe her breasts hurt.

If she has a kid already ,that kid is losing his lunch.

Should I post a vid of some dude banging a calf ?

 

That was my first thought. Her child or another woman's child could have been fed...

 

I'm with liminal_luke on this, when he said "Along with the "feeling" of gratitude would come an effort to seek out meat that had been raised and slaughtered in a humane, compassionate way."

 

warm regards

 

 

 

[eye_of_the_storm]

I don't think the animal cares how grateful you imagine yourself to be... I think it would prefer to be alive... wouldn't you?

[rene]

.... how grateful you imagine yourself to be....

 

Trying to minimalize how someone feels wont help your cause, wolf.

 

warm regards

[eye_of_the_storm]

Trying to minimalize how someone feels wont help your cause, wolf.

 

warm regards

 

It isn't a feeling, it is a delusion... just like your "warm regards"

 

eg: compassion and slaughter = oxymoron

 

You people and your feelings haha

 

me, me, me

 

Can you put yourself aside just for a moment? and watch the video Dao posted.

 

Maybe after that you will have some perspective regarding your feelings.

Edited May 2, 2013 by White Wolf Running On Air

[Marblehead]

thoughts?

I don't have a problem with that and no, I didn't even consider that some other animal might be missing out.

[Stosh]

 

It isn't a feeling, it is a delusion... just like your "warm regards"

 

eg: compassion and slaughter = oxymoron

 

You people and your feelings haha

 

me, me, me

 

Can you put yourself aside just for a moment? and watch the video Dao posted.

 

Maybe after that you will have some perspective regarding your feelings.

Its not that we dont have feelings , its just they arent guilt, shame over eating food, and a desire to feel superior.

[liminal_luke]

 

 

 

You people and your feelings haha

 

me, me, me

 

Having feelings and paying attention to them is not a symptom of narcissism and definately not exclusive of taking compassionate action in the world. I dare say you have some pretty strong feelings yourself (say when you watch a video of animals being slaughtered) that has a lot to do with the position you take. Feelings, thoughts, and actions are all connected.

[Cheshire Cat]

Its not that we dont have feelings , its just they arent guilt, shame over eating food, and a desire to feel superior.

 

There's no guilt, nor shame, nor desire to feel superior... just seeing something wrong and don't take a role in it.

It's that simple.

It's possible to live a healthy life without meat and enjoying palatable dishes at the same time.

 

If you feel that it's ok to threat animals in that way because, as my grandmother said "They're made by God so that we can eat them"... then there's nothing that I can add.

Just a question out of personal curiosity, do you practice some form of meditation/qigong/etc.. ?

 

Having feelings and paying attention to them is not a symptom of narcissism and definately not exclusive of taking compassionate action in the world. I dare say you have some pretty strong feelings yourself (say when you watch a video of animals being slaughtered) that has a lot to do with the position you take. Feelings, thoughts, and actions are all connected.

 

I think that it's just a matter of a inner sense of respect for life: he feels that there's something wrong in that system of slaughtering, hormones, low cost hamburgers, illness and over-consumption of meat.

But if others feel a deep sense of gratitude and respect for that... well, we humans are really curious

[eye_of_the_storm]

In everything, treat others as you would want them to treat you

Says it best I guess.