Animal Flesh and the Fall of Man.

[eye_of_the_storm]

civ·il

/ˈsivəl/

Adjective

1. Of or relating to ordinary citizens and their concerns, as distinct from military or ecclesiastical matters.
2. (of disorder or conflict) Occurring between citizens of the same country.

Synonyms

civilian - polite - courteous - civic - mannerly

 

That is an odd one

[Wu Ming Jen]

Which came first wilderness or civilization? With out one we do not know the difference. We are Gods to a shadow a two dimensional entity. We are responsible for each other and all living things or we could have someone or thing be responsible so we do not have to be. I take full responsibility for the fall and rise, the expansion and contraction, the growth and decay, the liked and the disliked. We cant have one with out the other.

[Stosh]

hu·mane /(h)yo͞oˈmān/Adjective

1. Having or showing compassion or benevolence.
2. Inflicting the minimum of pain.

Synonymshuman - humanitarianhu·man /ˈ(h)yo͞omən/AdjectiveOf, relating to, or characteristic of people or human beings. NounA human being, esp. a person as distinguished from an animal or (in science fiction) an alien. Synonymsadjective. humane - By definition that is what it is to be human.

You are misunderstanding the dictionary yes saying human can be substituted by some with the word humane but that is just opinion.It doesn't mean that the two words are equivalent. Humans can do things either humane inhumane os have nothing to do with benevolence. A lion kills a zebra and no one decries it as inhumane. A bird brings food to a nest and noone says the bird was acting humane. Yet both lions and birds may kill their food and give it to offspring. You are making a sef fulfilling circular argument to say that one is defined by humane behavior and at the same time you are expecting that behavior only by one who is human, besides , only a human can be called inhumane , it is the same logic in reverse.

 

[Stosh]

"fall" and "rise" are perspectives of going to and coming from destinations.We have people from the top coming down, from the bottom going up, and stagnant stasei (stasises?) all along the way in between.So it depends on y(our) objectives as to weather or not having compassion is "better" than having no compassion at all.If being compassionateless is your objective, then murder without remorse or resource would be a "rise" rather than a "fall".

we are in basic agreement about the rise and fall thing, but rising and falling more accurately is a vertical change relative to something.

Since we are playing dictionary here today as if one another was stupid or not english speaking

Compassion is a sentiment.

It is not good or bad unless you define it to be good or bad and it is still just your dualistic opinion

The natural world gets along just fine without it.

[Stosh]

civ·i·li·za·tion /ˌsivələˈzāSHən/Noun

1. The most advanced stage of human social development and organization.
2. The process by which a society or place reaches this stage.

SynonymsculturePerfection is something that can never be attained?Or as say a "master" of any art would say... there is still so much to learn?I am an Idealist I guess.... "we who are aimed"If all one sees is an abyss... well there isn't much point in talking.If you don't believe in anything, what guides you?Where are you going?Every breath is an act of faith.

Could it be that only now you are starting to grok Tao!

The answers to those last questions have been getting presented to you a long time ruminate on them and learn who you have been so often ..not hearing.

[Stosh]

Which came first wilderness or civilization? With out one we do not know the difference. We are Gods to a shadow a two dimensional entity. We are responsible for each other and all living things or we could have someone or thing be responsible so we do not have to be. I take full responsibility for the fall and rise, the expansion and contraction, the growth and decay, the liked and the disliked. We cant have one with out the other.

I believe I am very much in agreent with you on all of that, and it was gracefully said. Edited May 4, 2013 by Stosh

[Stosh]

civ·il /ˈsivəl/Adjective

• Of or relating to ordinary citizens and their concerns, as distinct from military or ecclesiastical matters.
• (of disorder or conflict) Occurring between citizens of the same country.

Synonymscivilian - polite - courteous - civic - mannerlyThat is an odd one

It is odd ifyou expect the synonyms to jive well , but like the other one it is just an abstraction,, and as such the meaning is just related to usage. Recall, civil war ? Edited May 4, 2013 by Stosh

[eye_of_the_storm]

(of disorder or conflict) Occurring between citizens of the same country war.

Where does your philosophy of no right or wrong come from?

Edited May 5, 2013 by White Wolf Running On Air

[Stosh]

(of disorder or conflict) Occurring between citizens of the same country war.Where does your philosophy of no right or wrong come from?

Well 'my' philosophy of that is more graft than seedling.

I am not sure we mean the term the same way.

A person can have opinions of what constitute right or wrong, they are just not backed up by any god.

Cannibals have no problem with killing and eating their enemies, somtimes they eat loved ones who have already passed on. You and I may think it wrong. What makes you think that your Idea of wrong has superiority to theirs? If not the backing of some imaginary deity.

[eye_of_the_storm]

Imaginary deity?

These are the works /insights of sages (etc) east to west, north to south... across all ages.

+ medical / scientific studies today.

They confirm my own experience.

If you would read the California prison article you would also see that a vegan diet = healthier (mentally, physically and spiritually) people - true redemption, now living positive lives... negative entropy.

The proof is in positive development.

Edited May 5, 2013 by White Wolf Running On Air

[Aaron]

There is no right or wrong that exists outside the human mind.

 

Aaron

[Cheshire Cat]

Prince Rama lived in Tetra-yuga.

That should be, before the so-called "fall of man"

 

http://perichandra.wordpress.com/2010/01/08/meat-eating-in-valmiki-ramayana/

Edited May 5, 2013 by DAO rain TAO

[Stosh]

Imaginary deity?These are the works /insights of sages (etc) east to west, north to south... across all ages.+ medical / scientific studies today.They confirm my own experience.If you would read the California prison article you would also see that a vegan diet = healthier (mentally, physically and spiritually) people - true redemption, now living positive lives... negative entropy.The proof is in positive development.

Its great if you think the proofis in the pudding

But before you decide that it means your god is real , you should examine compare to cultures that don't suffer from the "righteous god" stuff.

Like I pointed out earlier this thread isn't inherently about the health effects of arbitrary dietary concerns. If you want to go over that stuff rather than discuss the spiritual stuff , I don't really want to participate since it is a different subject entangling the bigger issue. ( but I consider you to have been misled about that as well , for the same reason)

[Stosh]

Prince Rama lived in Tetra-yuga.That should be, before the so-called "fall of man" http://perichandra.wordpress.com/2010/01/08/meat-eating-in-valmiki-ramayana/

Interesting reading , although I don't know the people and contexts independently from the texts provided.So I should hesitate at grasping at them myself.

But yes it would appear the stigma about the meat thing is actually a later development.

Wwroa could still argue that the fall occured either before or after that time period.

[Stosh]

Imaginary deity?These are the works /insights of sages (etc) east to west, north to south... across all ages.+ medical / scientific studies today.They confirm my own experience.If you would read the California prison article you would also see that a vegan diet = healthier (mentally, physically and spiritually) people - true redemption, now living positive lives... negative entropy.The proof is in positive development.

Still the deity is not proven nor provable nor disprovable. I personally cosider it a conjured up paradigmmjust as I figure you consider pagan religions false.If there is some god outside this three dimensional universe , he is not interested in screwing up or blessing your life in particular, the laws of physics are maintained not defied not varying , so not only is he not provable, he is also irrelevant.

[Cheshire Cat]

Interesting reading , although I don't know the people and contexts independently from the texts provided.So I should hesitate at grasping at them myself. But yes it would appear the stigma about the meat thing is actually a later development. Wwroa could still argue that the fall occured either before or after that time period.

 

Yes. Basically it is said that Prince Rama, who is God himself according to Vaishnava, lived in tetra-yuga

 

Treta Yuga (Devanagari: त्रेता युग) is the second out of four yugas, or ages of mankind, in the religion of Hinduism, and follows the Satya Yuga of perfect morality and precedes the Dvapara Yuga.

 

After Dvapara Yuga, it comes Kali-yuga, the present age.

At the very least, we could argue that eating meat is not a moral issue.

But please, consider my previous posts on slaughter houses and respect for life.

[eye_of_the_storm]

Are not spirit and body one?

What God is mine that you speak?

[Stosh]

Are not spirit and body one?What God is mine that you speak?

No body and spirit are not one and the same.and you indicate that , imply that they aren't or your sentence would have to read something else

 

But lets say that was just an artifact of linguistic expression, what does your corrected sentence look like?

[Stosh]

civ·i·li·za·tion /ˌsivələˈzāSHən/Noun

1. The most advanced stage of human social development and organization.
2. The process by which a society or place reaches this stage.

SynonymsculturePerfection is something that can never be attained?Or as say a "master" of any art would say... there is still so much to learn?I am an Idealist I guess.... "we who are aimed"If all one sees is an abyss... well there isn't much point in talking.If you don't believe in anything, what guides you?Where are you going?Every breath is an act of faith.

this is but one of the vague statements you have made which seem to indicate that you believe in a god.

If you don't then you can just clean all that up with a simple declaration rather than dance around it.

Once done ,you can go ahead and explain what anchors your ideas of universal morality.

This thing where you toss out five word sentences or dictionary definitions isn't doing anything to define or explain anything seriously.

[eye_of_the_storm]

It's a question and your answer was no.

It was also an answer of sorts.

What is a light bulb without electricity?

Who is my God?

Who is your God?

What is it that you hold dear?

For a person who believes there to be no right or wrong I guess you hold nothing dear / sacred.

You find comfort in absolutely nothing.

You consume ash and sleep on broken glass because you are beyond right or wrong right?

Where does this thinking come from?

[eye_of_the_storm]

Stosh said "as I figure you consider pagan religions false"

I guess you missed my signature?

[Stosh]

Still not a declarative answer, still shuckin and jivin

[yondaime109]

Fish has been shown to have a positive effect on the brain, I don't see how we humans can possibly run out of meat. We have fish, insects, live stock, etc. We just aren't being efficient.

[eye_of_the_storm]

Still not a declarative answer, still shuckin and jivin

 

you?

[Stosh]

That's fine , I can leave off comfortably right there.