A Thought of the Correlation betweenTCM and Modern Science

[ChiDragon]

Long time ago, the Taoists thought that they had discovered something in the Universe was cosmic energy. In addition, they also thought that by breathing the cosmic energy, the body will be strengthened by the absorbed energy. Without any scientific knowledge at the time, I think that was brilliant of them to come up with such a great idea. However, I can only consider that was only a conceptual thinking on their part.

Now, let's go back to Eisentein's formula, E=MC^2. IMO The E is a form of energy but it is a different form of energy which was not the Taoist had in mind. What the Taoists had in mind was the biochemical energy in the body.

In regarding to the jing. I saw a little discrepancy there in your explanation. Please allow me to point it out in a scholarly manner. It seems to me that you had scrambled the jing and cells by intermixing them. The two systems, the TCM and Wetern Science(WS) had claimed that:
TCM: The body is made up of Jing(essence).
WS: The body is made up by the a smallest unit which is called the body cells.

In the comparison with the two systems, in parallel, we have the Jing is equivalent to the body cells. If we say cells are make of Jing, then what is Jing made of....??? I think there is a big loop hole here. To avoid confusion, it is better not to intermingle with the terms of the two systems. In addition, when we talk about the two systems, we should only use the terminology within a system for consistency.

Now we got that out the way. Let's talk about the terms in the TCM System. To me, the terms jing, chi and shen are never appeared to be physical terms. They are only the conceptual terms which came up by the ancient Taoists. To begin with, the make up of a body need to have a basic unit which the jing. The body need strength, therefore, the Jing was converted to Chi which is the energy the body needed to function. Finally, the body need to be manipulated by a soul which it is called shen.

[ChiDragon]

In the Western Science(WS), they have sperm count to indicate that there is some kind of depletion but may not be the life force in particular. I think the Taoists had the same idea as indicated in red. That is why they came up with the semen retention idea for the same idea. The Jing in the body has to reproduced in order to sustain the life of the body. The idea about the post-natal jing is sustained by the pre-natal jing is coincided with Cell Respiration in the WS. The body cells are reproduced by mitosis(the split of the cells). The damaged cells are repaired by the white blood cells which the TCM was never mentioned about the repair of the jing. TCM made it sound like when the jing are gone then it is gone. In order to keep them arround, then the jing must be reserved like the idea about "semen retention".

By saying that, the Cell Respiration made the concept of "semen retention" blushed. However, overall, the Taoist concept about the Jing was converted to Chi, Chi was converted to Shen, then Shen was converted to Void which did make some sense. If, only if, we are using the Western Science to explain it to have some conceptual.

The Western Science has a good concept that the glucose is from the foods that we ate and react with the oxygen that we breathe. This corresponds to the TCM concept that the post-natal Jing are from the foods and the breathing of comic energy to sustain the pre-natal Jing.

By this well know formula for the explanation of Cell Respiration:
Glucose + Oxygen = H2O + CO2 + heat + energy.

The WS formula fits perfectly for both systems. The biggest surprise was that, even though, the Taoists had no scientific knowledge at the time but they had come up with the same idea. If one has to put the concepts in the perspective, then one would write something which can be related with to above formula.

Pre-natal Jing ---> post-natal Jing
Jing from the foods + Jing from the air = Jing + chi + shen

The formulas are not exactly the same, but the basic concepts are not too far off. In both formulas, the breathing factor do lays on the left hand and the energy on the right hand side. The foods are a must; and most importantly, the Taoist pay very close attention to the breathing. They knew the significance in breathing which will give them a tremendous body energy.

The energy was known as Chi as shown in the Taoist formula. However, the term "Chi" has multi-meaning. It depends how it was used in context. The breathing method is called as "Chi Kung" in the modern days. Unfortunately, the term "Chi" is in question. Is Chi Kung a practice to cultivate energy or to cultivate a better method to improve in breathing.....??? Well, since breathing is a method to generate body energy, then breathing would be the dominant factor in both formulas. It is fair to say that "Chi Kung" is the ultimate method of breathing to the Taoists. By the linguistic definition, the character "Chi" in Chi Kung means breathing instead of "energy".

Due to the difference in thinking between the West and the East, therefore, in the West, it is the ultimate method of cultivating energy. In the East, it is the ultimate method of breathing. I have to compromise as it stands for now. Unless otherwise, someone can come up with a better reason to rebut that.

[Wu Ming Jen]

Chi Gung energy work. vitality, energy, spirit, vitality creates the body (pre birth parents / post birth our own fusion) energy moves body (pre birth the original battery / post birth air, food, water) spirit moves energy. The three treasures do not have a physical location but by association we have the three elixir fields.

 

Here is something wild micro cosmic orbit and brain cell migration in the fetus. brain cell formation / 1st cell is location then each cell after knows the other cells function. cells start to form and travel from the kidney region Ming Men Gate and the last brain cells to arrive are formed near upper lip( the beginning of the descending channel).Our higher functions of the brain are located in the front of the brain (third eye in some, the bright hall in others)

 

The Taoist have a science that makes the west look like kindergarten because of Chi / energy and observing and investigating what is beyond physical manifestation using no technology. This is mind blowing in todays day and age. In the west science has no unification and the unseen is quickly given to god / left out of the equation.

 

Breathing Chi / 90% of our pre birth chi comes from breathing 10% food and water that is why there is plenty of food available or we would have run out a long time ago based on population. The fear spinners want us to believe there is not enough resources to maintain our population for control and profit purposes. If the body does not have sufficient oxygen to power the muscles sugar is then converted into energy which creates metabolic waste which we then must get rid of.

 

Chi is a very general term and specific in application. Chi is the uniting force of Taoist science and why all branches of Taoist science including martial arts speaks the same language.

 

Quantum physics seems to have many similarities to Old Taoist knowledge. Re-discovering things

I find the whole thing fascinating, the amount of knowledge known to the Taoist well before any modern technology. Just some thoughts

[Mudfoot]

 

 

The Taoist have a science that makes the west look like kindergarten because of Chi / energy and observing and investigating what is beyond physical manifestation using no technology. This is mind blowing in todays day and age. In the west science has no unification and the unseen is quickly given to god / left out of the equation.

 

 

 

Quantum physics seems to have many similarities to Old Taoist knowledge. Re-discovering things

I find the whole thing fascinating, the amount of knowledge known to the Taoist well before any modern technology. Just some thoughts

 

Mystics of many traditions and cultures, not only Daoists, have had interesting insights in the reality of space and time.

The problem comes when trying to compare notes with natural science.

Are we talking about the same thing?

Is this insight really the same as that which can be measured.

 

Anyone in physics would ask for an experiment proving the theory based in insight.

That is how science works, like a glove thrown in the face: Prove it!

 

Chinese medicin have a deep and intricate theory, but as can be seen in this thread (and in others, including in other forums) it is very difficult to say that one thing means the other.

[ChiDragon]

 

Mystics of many traditions and cultures, not only Daoists, have had interesting insights in the reality of space and time.

The problem comes when trying to compare notes with natural science.

Are we talking about the same thing?

Is this insight really the same as that which can be measured.

 

Anyone in physics would ask for an experiment proving the theory based in insight.

That is how science works, like a glove thrown in the face: Prove it!

 

Chinese medicin have a deep and intricate theory, but as can be seen in this thread (and in others, including in other forums) it is very difficult to say that one thing means the other.

 

It is a matter of understanding by seeing things with an open mind. Any preconceived ideas will detain progress from enlightenment. Some people were brain washed from the first thing they had leaned.

 

Yes, there is problem comes when trying to compare notes with natural science for those who cannot unlearn the only conceptual ideas which had learned from the past with no justification.

 

It would be very unfair to me by just looking at one side of the story. I would like the find the truth by looking at both sides of the story, objectively, to balance out any mental conflicts on my part.

Edited June 4, 2013 by ChiDragon

[Mudfoot]

 

It is a matter of understanding by seeing things with an open mind. Any preconceived ideas will detain progress from enlightenment. Some people were brain washed from the first thing they had leaned.

 

Yes, there is problem comes when trying to compare notes with natural science for those who cannot unlearn the only conceptual ideas which had learned from the past with no justification.

 

It would be very unfair to me by just looking at one side of the story. I would like the find the truth by looking at both sides of the story, objectively, to balance out any mental conflicts on my part.

 

There is always a tendency to be stuck in the cultural pattern one is raised in, albeit "brainwashed" is a somewhat harsh term. There is also a tendency when you change culture to immerse deeply in the new world view, proclaiming distance from the old one.

 

To see both world views for what they are, that's the trick, right?

 

"When everyone knows the good, then the not-good comes into being"

TTC (Hendricks Guodian translation)