Daoist Alchemy: Jerry A. Johnson

[Taomeow]

Religious Daoists are free and happy souls who are always open to adding a new god to the south wall, if it is their whim.

 

And traditional shamans too, and traditional hindu practitioners, and everybody traditional in fact. Monotheism is not traditional... and not indigenous to this planet.

 

South and Central American shamanism incorporated Christian saints with utmost ease -- Maria Sabina the famous Mazatec curandera routinely communicated with Jesus with the aid of sacred mushrooms, and Don X___ of my own shamanic initiation sang one of his icaros to "Mother Mary and other off-planet healers." And Mother of the Universe who wanted me to meet the off-planet creators-destroyers as part of my education specifically brought up Jesus and Buddha and suggested that I make peace with both -- and gave me a Buddhist mantra as a reminder. I deferred to Her authority, of course.

Edited March 31, 2014 by Taomeow

[johndoe2012]

..

Edited January 11, 2015 by johndoe2012

[Brian]

 

if you replace intention with INTENT then that is true for some lineages.

I agree -- INTENT is key. I am a little uncomfortable, though, with the phrase Horus used, "...only the intention is required to bring source itself to your feet", for two reasons.

 

First is that (and substituting "intent" here) intent absent the raising of the vibrational energy level implied by the preceding phrase "those of the highest level" is a hollow wish. It is only AFTER one's energy level has been significantly elevated and one has personally come into alignment with the Light that intent becomes effective.

 

Second is the phrase "to your feet" -- to me this implies subjugation, that you are commanding Source to do your bidding when, in fact, just the opposite it true. It is when one is aligned WITH the Light that things start to happen. We help manifest the will of the Light rather than use the Light to manifest our own will.

 

In some lineages, anyhow...

 

I think Horus was suggesting, however, that the dedicated practitioner of a high-level spiritual "kung fu" develops the ability to use intent to leverage the Light to bend manifest reality, and this I agree with whole-heartedly.

[Captain Mar-Vell]

...

First is that (and substituting "intent" here) intent absent the raising of the vibrational energy level implied by the preceding phrase "those of the highest level" is a hollow wish. It is only AFTER one's energy level has been significantly elevated and one has personally come into alignment with the Light that intent becomes effective.

 

Second is the phrase "to your feet" -- to me this implies subjugation, that you are commanding Source to do your bidding when, in fact, just the opposite it true. It is when one is aligned WITH the Light that things start to happen. We help manifest the will of the Light rather than use the Light to manifest our own will.

 

Great post, Bri.

 

I, too, am a very naughty boy.

 

The Secret works, but only if you are spiritually adept already.

 

I learnt that from Neville Goddard, who was a Xtian mystic.

 

Be as the birds in the trees, and give not a thought to tomorrow.

 

Wu wei.

 

Go with the flow.

 

Nazarene good man, great saint.

 

Jesus is just alright by me.

 

Turning and turning.

...

Edited March 31, 2014 by Captain Mar-Vell

[Green Tiger]

I agree -- INTENT is key. I am a little uncomfortable, though, with the phrase Horus used, "...only the intention is required to bring source itself to your feet", for two reasons.

 

First is that (and substituting "intent" here) intent absent the raising of the vibrational energy level implied by the preceding phrase "those of the highest level" is a hollow wish. It is only AFTER one's energy level has been significantly elevated and one has personally come into alignment with the Light that intent becomes effective.

 

Second is the phrase "to your feet" -- to me this implies subjugation, that you are commanding Source to do your bidding when, in fact, just the opposite it true. It is when one is aligned WITH the Light that things start to happen. We help manifest the will of the Light rather than use the Light to manifest our own will.

 

In some lineages, anyhow...

 

I think Horus was suggesting, however, that the dedicated practitioner of a high-level spiritual "kung fu" develops the ability to use intent to leverage the Light to bend manifest reality, and this I agree with whole-heartedly.

 

I think I would say it like this: "Effective use of intent in a clinical setting presupposes a relationship with source/the light."

 

Johnson's CMQT book breaks down a process for 'aligning with the light' that seems to be geared toward someone who has not yet developed that relationship. It's a good method that includes a grounding sequence (physical connection to the earth), consecration of the healing space (environmental divine hookup), connecting the spiritual center of the body to the spiritual center of the universe (physical divine hookup), aligning with the light (visual divine hookup), and then invoking the 'Lord' via prayer (verbal divine hookup). It's a bit redundant, but for someone who is not comfortable with it yet, it helps to firmly get them connected with the light.

 

Concerning the purpose of the divine hookup, he says:

 

This divine hook-up enables the Qigong doctor to not only establish a sacred healing space, but also to access both spiritual insights and divine healing power. CMQT pg. 506

 

Previously in the book, he talked more about spiritual insights and divine healing power as it related to diagnosis.

 

Clinical diagnosis can be categorized into two primary methods of energetic examination and treatment: Sensory Diagnosis and Intuitive and Perceptual Diagnosis. The clinical methods of Sensory Diagnosis are quite prevalent throughout China, especially within the acupuncture, massage, and herbal clinics. The methods of Intuitive or Perceptual Diagnosis, however, have been kept secret for many years, and are primarily found only within the Medical Qigong clinics. pg. 465

 

He goes on to describe some of the sensory diagnosis methods (looking, listening, touching, smelling, questioning) before discussing the intuitive methods.

 

 

There are other dimensions of reality that are very tangible, and access to them is only limited by fear and ignorance. Since theories on the nature of the mind and spirit cannot be easily verified or disproved by intellectual analysis or scientific experiment, sometimes certain kinds of knowledge are disbelieved, ridiculed, and dismissed. The advanced energy theories that are presented in this textbook are based upon the five thousand years of cultivation and experience of Chinese medical healing.

 

The energetic form of Qi is neither good nor evil, it is simply another aspect of matter. The ancient Chinese Qigong masters refined the ability to analyze and diagnose these different forms of energy into an effective healing modality.

 

pg. 470

 

In order to become capable with intuitive diagnosis, the qigong doctor must, according to Johnson, go through an initiatory process he calls 'the awakening.'

 

THE AWAKENING

 

For the Qigong doctor to understand spiritual insights, three phases of energetic transformation must first be experienced. These three phases are collectively known as "the awakening" and are described as follows.

 

1. The awakening describes the beginning phase or "opening" of the Qigong doctors' Mind and Spirit to their energetic potential. This acceptance becomes rooted within the doctors' intention, emotion, and thought, and sets into motion the correct vibrational field for accessing their higher consciousness.

 

2. Entering the inner sanctuary describes the phase wherein Qigong doctors begin to receive greater clarity of mind and an elevated consciousness. The doctors receive information on a multidimensional level and are now able to access, as well as better understand their inner core being. This sets into motion the Qigong doctors' understanding of their interconnectedness to everything in the universe. At this point, the doctors must accept responsibility for their actions and non-actions.

 

3. Accessing the Wuji through the Creative Subconscious Mind describes the Qigong doctors' ability to access and reprogram their Mind and core vibration. This sets into motion the doctors' personal contact with their higher self, or Eternal Soul.

 

pg. 471

 

Finally, he asserts that being in the right "state of consciousness" is more important than any method when it comes to intuitive diagnosis.

 

The state of consciousness in which the doctor listens and feels the patient is more important than the technique or modality used. This is why there are so many diagnostic tools available to assist doctors in their evaluation. The patient's body maintains the energetic pattern of trauma until it is released and dispersed. The amount of energy required to neutralize this traumatic charge and return the tissues back to their normal state is in direct proportion to the intensity of the original trauma.

 

pg. 472

 

He goes on to describe some intuitive methods later in that chapter.

 

TL/DR?

 

Just read the first line of the last quote: "The state of consciousness in which the doctor listens and feels the patient is more important than the technique or modality used."

 

According to Jerry Alan Johnson's book Chinese Medical Qigong Therapy, developing a relationship to source/the light is the single most important requirement for diagnosing and healing a patient. Once you've done that, you become a conduit for source/the light to do its work.

Edited March 31, 2014 by Green Tiger

[flowing hands]

 

as if Jesus was the 'hookup': Which doesn't make much difference. The Daoist Ritual Dan for such things as the Rite of Cosmic Renewal includes those gods who are the core of the Daoist pantheon on the North Wall, the Daoist Gods ruling the cosmos in the East, West and center and the gods of the popular religion along the Southern wall, this includes traditional Chinese Gods, but also Quanyin who is not strictly a Daoist goddess and if one is so inclined could include Jesus, who as a 'god' of the popular religion could as easily be added to Daoist practice as such 'immortals' as Hua Tuo Xian Shi, Chi Tien Da Shen and even Li Erh Xian Shi, who in this form belongs in the South, and are the ones with which 'flowing hands' is so enamored.

 

 

 

Religious Daoists are free and happy souls who are always open to adding a new god to the south wall, if it is their whim.

 

There is of course more to this, but this is part of the reason I am not upset by Jerry Alan Johnson's 'sound bite' about Jesus.

 

And just as a personal note, should someone consider it relevant, no I have not and would not add Jesus to my practice.

I think you have used an unfortunate turn of phrase to describe the teacher/student relationship as "enamored". And you use it not in a positive way, but more in a mocking way. The normal relationship is that of a father/grandfather in terms of Trad. Kung Fu. There is a loyalty there that we seldom see in the money orientated West systems of teaching martial arts etc. A loyalty that goes beyond the word "enamored", we don't just flower hop from one sifu to the other, just to get what we want out of them. They normally won't give what we want anyway and can see us coming a mile off. I have no problem with Jesus in the slightest, but I do have a problem with someone who says they are teaching Daoist alchemy but have the tradition of the church and Jesus in their hearts. These things do not go together. Not that Jesus really would have anything to do with modern churches any way, I think he would be appalled.

[Brian]

I believe you are spot-on here, flowing hands.

[Zhongyongdaoist]

I think you have used an unfortunate turn of phrase to describe the teacher/student relationship as "enamored". And you use it not in a positive way, but more in a mocking way. The normal relationship is that of a father/grandfather in terms of Trad. Kung Fu. There is a loyalty there that we seldom see in the money orientated West systems of teaching martial arts etc. A loyalty that goes beyond the word "enamored", we don't just flower hop from one sifu to the other, just to get what we want out of them. They normally won't give what we want anyway and can see us coming a mile off. I have no problem with Jesus in the slightest, but I do have a problem with someone who says they are teaching Daoist alchemy but have the tradition of the church and Jesus in their hearts. These things do not go together. Not that Jesus really would have anything to do with modern churches any way, I think he would be appalled.

 

I will remind anyone who may have not noticed or may have forgotten, that it is 'flowing hands' who set the general tone here by these remarks:

 

I'll go back to my original point which if any of these Jerry Johson sycophants knew anything about cultivation, would realise that you are aiming to have nothing in your heart other than the Dao when cultivating and you can't call it anything else.

 

but more in a mocking way: As a character 'flowing hands' invites almost merciless satire. I have been very restrained.

 

The normal relationship is that of a father/grandfather: as a person who took his Tao Bums name from one of Zhuxi's 'Four Books', I am quite familiar with what is normative in teacher/student relations in Chinese society. Including the part about not doing to others what you would not have done to yourself.

 

To continue my examination of the Daoist Ritual Dan. The Daoist practitioner not only creates this Dan in his imagination around him, but creates it internally. Thus while the Three Pure Ones are visualized in the North they are also visualized in the Daoists body in his three internal Dan, the Dao De Heavenly Worthy in his lower Dan Tien, the Ling Bao Heavenly Worthy in his middle Dan and the Yuan Shih Heavenly Worthy in his upper Dan. The Five Emperors of the Directions, Elements and Planets are visualized in his yin internal organs and of specific interest here is that the Red Emperor of the South, Fire and the Planet Mars is visualized in the practitioner's heart.

 

Is 'flowing hands' willing to maintain on the basis of his 'sound bite' quote upon which he bases so much, that in all his years of spiritual practice Jerry Alan Johnson has never once done this? And if he has done it once, that was the only time? That Jesus and only Jesus is the only spiritual image that has ever been in Jerry Alan Johnson's heart?

 

However there is more. Because an essential part of Daoist rite is the FaLu, literally the 'lighting of the incense' in which all of these internal spirits are exteriorized, sent out from the Daoists body, but let me allow Michael Saso to continue:

 

Union with the Dao is now achieved. A sacred rescript (shuwen) is carried down from the heavens by the “Du Jiang” Chief Cantor, and presented to the Master, who performs the sacred dance called “Pacing the Void” Bu Xu 步虛. The video shows the “fa lu” 發爐 “lighting the incense burner /alchemical furnace” in the belly. All spirits, energies, images, are sent out of the body (watch the Daoist do this by pressing the joints on the left hand, with the left thumb). Zhuangzi’s words “heart fasting, sitting in forgetfulness” 心齋坐忘, cause 於道合真 “One with Dao” to be realized.” (In Depth Explanation of the Jiao, section Six, Emphais mine, ZYD)

 

Is 'flowing hands' willing to maintain based on his 'sound bite', that in all his years of spiritual practice Jerry Alan Johnson has never once done this? And if he has done it once, that was the only time?

 

I repeat the above phrases not from lack of imagination, but for the sake of emphasis, for this is what 'flowing hands' is maintaining, that based on a 'sound bite' from a video interview, he knows Jerry Alan Johnson's whole spiritual life, and further, is fit to judge him.

 

As a well known Jewish carpenter, who acquired quite a following for such modest beginnings, once said, 'Judge not, lest thee be judged', or something to that effect.

 

 

 

Edit: Changed Elelments to Elements in the above post.

Edited April 5, 2014 by Zhongyongdaoist

[Taomeow]

Loyalty that is in the heart is not compromised by the student learning from other traditions, sects or teachers -- in fact, authentic taoist teachers have always encouraged this.

 

And this loyalty included or not included monetary transactions depending on the circumstances. In a typical case, a mature student often financially supported an aging teacher -- one of my teachers, e.g., still does -- decades after his free-of-charge discipleship. Another one, whose teachers have now left the world, chose a lucrative profession specifically in order to support his two teachers in their old age. Both cases -- people I know personally in China.

 

This kind of loyalty is hardly ever expected of a Western student, and if anyone knows of a case like this in the, e.g., US, I'm all ears. I don't. SO a student whose loyalty does not extend from his heart to his wallet... whose heart says something like, "the buck stops here..." ...better pay in advance or the teacher will starve in his old age. Unless of course we're dealing with someone exempt of such financial mundanities by virtue of being taught directly by a well-to-do immortal. Talk about free lunch. Whoever qualifies doesn't have to worry about the teacher's needs -- loyalty of the heart never gets tested on the level of the wallet, and that's when it truly shines, right?

Edited March 31, 2014 by Taomeow

[Captain Mar-Vell]

...

 

the Master, who performs the sacred dance called “Pacing the Void” Bu Xu 步虛. The video shows the “fa lu” 發爐 “lighting the incense burner /alchemical furnace” in the belly. All spirits, energies, images, are sent out of the body (watch the Daoist do this by pressing the joints on the left hand, with the left thumb). Zhuangzi’s words “heart fasting, sitting in forgetfulness” 心齋坐忘, cause 於道合真 “One with Dao” to be realized.”

 

Once again, how marvellous!

 

Just like with the yellow cushion.

 

I just find myself doing these things and later find out they are some sort of authentic daoist practice.

 

Someone's teaching me somehow.

 

It's some sort of "past life" thing perhaps.

 

I dance, light incense, perform pranayama, bow to the four cardinal directions, evoke five elements and fire especially, kneel/sit on my yellow cushion, evoke fire some more combined with some more pranayama and incense burning and meditate.

 

Often a strange spirit comes over me.

 

I also do a sort of staff form tai chi chuan which I've never been taught.

 

And then there's the qi gong.

 

I did read and love Lao Tzu and Chuang Tze.

 

And Kung Fu.

 

And the Water Margin.

 

Woah my lights are flashing.

 

And of course my very favourite.

 

Monkey.

 

I loved telly as a kid.

...

Edited March 31, 2014 by Captain Mar-Vell

[flowing hands]

 

I will remind anyone who may have not noticed or may have forgotten, that it is 'flowing hands' who set the general tone here by these remarks:

 

 

but more in a mocking way: As a character 'flowing hands' invites almost merciless satire. I have been very restrained.

 

The normal relationship is that of a father/grandfather: as a person who took his Tao Bums name from one of Zhuxi's 'Four Books', I am quite familiar with what is normative in teacher/student relations in Chinese society. Including the part about not doing to others what you would not have done to yourself.

 

To continue my examination of the Daoist Ritual Dan. The Daoist practitioner not only creates this Dan in his imagination around him, but creates it internally. Thus while the Three Pure Ones are visualized in the North they are also visualized in the Daoists body in his three internal Dan, the Dao De Heavenly Worthy in his lower Dan Tien, the Ling Bao Heavenly Worthy in his middle Dan and the Yuan Shih Heavenly Worthy in his upper Dan. The Five Emperors of the Directions, Elelments and Planets are visualized in his yin internal organs and of specific interest here is that the Red Emperor of the South, Fire and the Planet Mars is visualized in the practitioner's heart.

 

Is 'flowing hands' willing to maintain on the basis of his 'sound bite' quote upon which he bases so much, that in all his years of spiritual practice Jerry Alan Johnson has never once done this? And if he has done it once, that was the only time? That Jesus and only Jesus is the only spiritual image that has ever been in Jerry Alan Johnson's heart?

 

However there is more. Because an essential part of Daoist rite is the FaLu, literally the 'lighting of the incense' in which all of these internal spirits are exteriorized, sent out from the Daoists body, but let me allow Michael Saso to continue:

 

 

Is 'flowing hands' willing to maintain based on his 'sound bite', that in all his years of spiritual practice Jerry Alan Johnson has never once done this? And if he has done it once, that was the only time?

 

I repeat the above phrases not from lack of imagination, but for the sake of emphasis, for this is what 'flowing hands' is maintaining, that based on a 'sound bite' from a video interview, he knows Jerry Alan Johnson's whole spiritual life, and further, is fit to judge him.

 

As a well known Jewish carpenter, who acquired quite a following for such modest beginnings, once said, 'Judge not, lest thee be judged', or something to that effect.

Well let me remind you it was others here who actually started making snide remarks even sending me threatening PMs. A sycophant is a true description of many people on this thread who have shouted me down just because I have offered something different, other than 'wow its great'. I am rather more concerned with what is the truth of the matter. It happens a lot on threads when many people do not like to see certain things about what they may have invested a lot of time and money in. One would say a natural reaction.

Your very learned quotes are the things that let you down. They are from others and not your own personal experience. Many of them are completely wrong. As for Master Chuang and Michael Saso, he was a Daoist priest and not a shaman. He performed the rites as to what he had learned from others and from books mainly (I read the book) not from the Immortals. So what you have written bears no essence of truth, just a ritual and a visualization, but in truth, not so. There are many rituals and rites which have become the part of Daoist Cannon and part of the Daoist church, a bit like a lot of religions. Many of these came from shamanism and some came from Chang Tao ling. Now they are all mixed up together with Buddhism as well, and have been for hundreds if not thousands of years. So various masters add their bit and their imaginations as to the reality of Immortals and spirits, especially in the Daoist church where one can't move for rites and so called spirits who have to be constantly appeased; sorry if it offends you Taomeow, its just a load of nonsense. But in truth many do not exist or do they exist in the direction you say. Learned of many books you may be, knowledgeable of the truth you are not. Judge not, lest thee be judged. Remember I have been taught the pure way, the way of Immortals, not the way of ordinary men. No book have I followed, no course have I been on, but I have made myself like a tree, humbled myself before the Heavens and begged to be taught.

When I first started, I was lucky enough to be able to draw the fa fu and fa shui the first time I went into the Temple. Many try for over a year but the Immortal never comes, I wanted to learn the Immortal's martial arts. So for two years nearly every day I said my prayer, looked up to the east with my arms open like a tree and begged. I would stand there perhaps for over an hour each time, begging until I could stand no longer and my arms would drop with pain. After two years of doing this, one day the Monkey God came to me, he moved my body powerfully and stood me in the horse stance and said "I'm going to teach you my own personal Grand Ultimate Fist". So I started to learn and I went on to learn all sorts of styles of martial art over the years. I learn't medical qigong and TCM, self cultivation, exorcism and all sorts of things and above all what Immortals exist and don't exist in the Heavens. Now there are many Immortals that people have never heard of, why? Why then is it that people believe in Immortals and spirits that don't exist? You seem to know all the answers so please educate us, look it up in one of your books. If you can't, stand like a tree for two years and beg to know the truth, if you don't believe me.

[flowing hands]

Loyalty that is in the heart is not compromised by the student learning from other traditions, sects or teachers -- in fact, authentic taoist teachers have always encouraged this.

 

And this loyalty included or not included monetary transactions depending on the circumstances. In a typical case, a mature student often financially supported an aging teacher -- one of my teachers, e.g., still does -- decades after his free-of-charge discipleship. Another one, whose teachers have now left the world, chose a lucrative profession specifically in order to support his two teachers in their old age. Both cases -- people I know personally in China.

 

This kind of loyalty is hardly ever expected of a Western student, and if anyone knows of a case like this in the, e.g., US, I'm all ears. I don't. SO a student whose loyalty does not extend from his heart to his wallet... whose heart says something like, "the buck stops here..." ...better pay in advance or the teacher will starve in his old age. Unless of course we're dealing with someone exempt of such financial mundanities by virtue of being taught directly by a well-to-do immortal. Talk about free lunch. Whoever qualifies doesn't have to worry about the teacher's needs -- loyalty of the heart never gets tested on the level of the wallet, and that's when it truly shines, right?

Do you think today's China is anything like it was pre-revolution? Most of the real Daoist left post haste, before they were burnt down. Now they dig up whatever is left, but you will find more real Daoism outside of China where it has been preserved. Immortals have no need of money or anything else. Most Temples are funding by voluntary contributions and committee's run the up keep of the temple. Ordinary followers pay money to the committee to help with the upkeep. The same as a school of martial art. Although the sifu may take payment if he was full time teacher, many though worked doing other jobs for pay.

[Horus]

I agree -- INTENT is key. I am a little uncomfortable, though, with the phrase Horus used, "...only the intention is required to bring source itself to your feet", for two reasons.

 

First is that (and substituting "intent" here) intent absent the raising of the vibrational energy level implied by the preceding phrase "those of the highest level" is a hollow wish. It is only AFTER one's energy level has been significantly elevated and one has personally come into alignment with the Light that intent becomes effective.

 

Second is the phrase "to your feet" -- to me this implies subjugation, that you are commanding Source to do your bidding when, in fact, just the opposite it true. It is when one is aligned WITH the Light that things start to happen. We help manifest the will of the Light rather than use the Light to manifest our own will.

 

In some lineages, anyhow...

 

I think Horus was suggesting, however, that the dedicated practitioner of a high-level spiritual "kung fu" develops the ability to use intent to leverage the Light to bend manifest reality, and this I agree with whole-heartedly.

There is just a semantic issue with any difference between intent and intention - intent merely having further implication of clear reasoning or great deliberateness. To that I say - a soul of the highest level of evolution can do the same with both. A mere nuance of intention or intent will achieve what they seek. To believe other wise is to believe that source cannot understand one or the other. However, I would suggest that intent is a clearer way of putting it - and certainly accept that even the most evolved soul would create a stronger "link-up" with the divine should they hone such a process.

 

As for ""those of the highest level" is a hollow wish"...

 

This doesn't really mean much...

 

There are those souls incarnate among us that herald to a much higher spiritual evolution than others - this is the way of it. Wishes hollow or not have little to do with that. Intention and intent over lifetimes is one way to ascend to such levels, yet there are souls that started that way from the very beginning. These souls, incarnating into this time/space frame are whole - and need do no energetic work to "come into alignment with the Light". They are the light and so it is.

 

 

And with: "Second is the phrase "to your feet" -- to me this implies subjugation, that you are commanding Source to do your bidding when, in fact, just the opposite it true."

 

There is a separation in this statement. You cannot command Source to bid for you - you are Source. In that moment both you and source subjugate together as one. If you make it that Source (God, the Divine - whatever you term it) is outside you - you've left yourself behind. You are all of it experiencing yourself through duality.

 

With:

 

"I think Horus was suggesting, however, that the dedicated practitioner of a high-level spiritual "kung fu" develops the ability to use intent to leverage the Light to bend manifest reality, and this I agree with whole-heartedly."

 

I agree with this also - but it was not my point.

 

My point is that some souls never chose to explore the darker side of duality - they maintained the light in every choice. These souls can with a mere intent/intention call upon source to come and be right at their feet. Infact, they often need only feel lost and separated and source will come.

 

And by that I mean the whole fanfare descends - first the lowest levels of heavenly being come, then the next eschalon, then the next highest eschelons, until finally the God Head itself (at least its visual energetic representation ie the highest manifestation that would be considered God/Source - as in actuality the true source state is infinite formlessness - but there is an Image of God/Source that is "provided" at times). And yes, at your feet. When one is so divine there is no judgement or subjugation, and indeed no separation. So, it is only during the transition from the great unwashed to the complete ascension that we feel there is something lowly about having someone at our feet. Though, I understand fully how that could sound. I have actually seen this through another's eyes. Divine will and the personal will fuse as one. There is only 1 bidding as there is only 1.

 

Don't mistake Righteousness for Arrogance - it is easy to do.

 

My point is to dispel the requirement for ceremony - at the highest level you are Source. However, ceremony is a valid tool for connecting with said divinity without question.

[Brian]

Seems we are in agreement after all, Horus.

 

[Horus]

Seems we are in agreement after all, Horus.

So it is, Brian. We are one.

 

But, what a divine dance it is to re-remember that.

[Zhongyongdaoist]

Well let me remind you it was others here who actually started making snide remarks even sending me threatening PMs. A sycophant is a true description of many people on this thread who have shouted me down just because I have offered something different, other than 'wow its great'. I am rather more concerned with what is the truth of the matter. It happens a lot on threads when many people do not like to see certain things about what they may have invested a lot of time and money in. One would say a natural reaction.

Your very learned quotes are the things that let you down. They are from others and not your own personal experience. Many of them are completely wrong. As for Master Chuang and Michael Saso, he was a Daoist priest and not a shaman. He performed the rites as to what he had learned from others and from books mainly (I read the book) not from the Immortals. So what you have written bears no essence of truth, just a ritual and a visualization, but in truth, not so. There are many rituals and rites which have become the part of Daoist Cannon and part of the Daoist church, a bit like a lot of religions. Many of these came from shamanism and some came from Chang Tao ling. Now they are all mixed up together with Buddhism as well, and have been for hundreds if not thousands of years. So various masters add their bit and their imaginations as to the reality of Immortals and spirits, especially in the Daoist church where one can't move for rites and so called spirits who have to be constantly appeased; sorry if it offends you Taomeow, its just a load of nonsense. But in truth many do not exist or do they exist in the direction you say. Learned of many books you may be, knowledgeable of the truth you are not. Judge not, lest thee be judged. Remember I have been taught the pure way, the way of Immortals, not the way of ordinary men. No book have I followed, no course have I been on, but I have made myself like a tree, humbled myself before the Heavens and begged to be taught.

When I first started, I was lucky enough to be able to draw the fa fu and fa shui the first time I went into the Temple. Many try for over a year but the Immortal never comes, I wanted to learn the Immortal's martial arts. So for two years nearly every day I said my prayer, looked up to the east with my arms open like a tree and begged. I would stand there perhaps for over an hour each time, begging until I could stand no longer and my arms would drop with pain. After two years of doing this, one day the Monkey God came to me, he moved my body powerfully and stood me in the horse stance and said "I'm going to teach you my own personal Grand Ultimate Fist". So I started to learn and I went on to learn all sorts of styles of martial art over the years. I learn't medical qigong and TCM, self cultivation, exorcism and all sorts of things and above all what Immortals exist and don't exist in the Heavens. Now there are many Immortals that people have never heard of, why? Why then is it that people believe in Immortals and spirits that don't exist? You seem to know all the answers so please educate us, look it up in one of your books. If you can't, stand like a tree for two years and beg to know the truth, if you don't believe me.

 

Thanks 'flowing hands', you have no idea how much this post helps me.

[BaguaKicksAss]

Well let me remind you it was others here who actually started making snide remarks even sending me threatening PMs. A sycophant is a true description of many people on this thread who have shouted me down just because I have offered something different, other than 'wow its great'. I am rather more concerned with what is the truth of the matter. It happens a lot on threads when many people do not like to see certain things about what they may have invested a lot of time and money in. One would say a natural reaction.

Your very learned quotes are the things that let you down. They are from others and not your own personal experience. Many of them are completely wrong. As for Master Chuang and Michael Saso, he was a Daoist priest and not a shaman. He performed the rites as to what he had learned from others and from books mainly (I read the book) not from the Immortals. So what you have written bears no essence of truth, just a ritual and a visualization, but in truth, not so. There are many rituals and rites which have become the part of Daoist Cannon and part of the Daoist church, a bit like a lot of religions. Many of these came from shamanism and some came from Chang Tao ling. Now they are all mixed up together with Buddhism as well, and have been for hundreds if not thousands of years. So various masters add their bit and their imaginations as to the reality of Immortals and spirits, especially in the Daoist church where one can't move for rites and so called spirits who have to be constantly appeased; sorry if it offends you Taomeow, its just a load of nonsense. But in truth many do not exist or do they exist in the direction you say. Learned of many books you may be, knowledgeable of the truth you are not. Judge not, lest thee be judged. Remember I have been taught the pure way, the way of Immortals, not the way of ordinary men. No book have I followed, no course have I been on, but I have made myself like a tree, humbled myself before the Heavens and begged to be taught.

When I first started, I was lucky enough to be able to draw the fa fu and fa shui the first time I went into the Temple. Many try for over a year but the Immortal never comes, I wanted to learn the Immortal's martial arts. So for two years nearly every day I said my prayer, looked up to the east with my arms open like a tree and begged. I would stand there perhaps for over an hour each time, begging until I could stand no longer and my arms would drop with pain. After two years of doing this, one day the Monkey God came to me, he moved my body powerfully and stood me in the horse stance and said "I'm going to teach you my own personal Grand Ultimate Fist". So I started to learn and I went on to learn all sorts of styles of martial art over the years. I learn't medical qigong and TCM, self cultivation, exorcism and all sorts of things and above all what Immortals exist and don't exist in the Heavens. Now there are many Immortals that people have never heard of, why? Why then is it that people believe in Immortals and spirits that don't exist? You seem to know all the answers so please educate us, look it up in one of your books. If you can't, stand like a tree for two years and beg to know the truth, if you don't believe me.

 

I prefer to walk around the trees...

 

Btw, if you receive threatening PMs feel free to report them by hitting the report button below. Threats are something which isn't tolerated at TTBs.

[Taomeow]

Lunches paid in former lifetimes?

 

Maybe.

 

I've met people of high attainment who were both lucky and good, and they seemed so relaxed and easygoing that interacting with them was a breeze. Zero self-importance...

Edited April 1, 2014 by Taomeow

[Horus]

Maybe.

 

I've met people of high attainment who were both lucky and good, and they seemed so relaxed and easygoing that interacting with them was a breeze. Zero self-importance...

So, if you notice that someone never seems to pay for their lunch....

[Taomeow]

So, if you notice that someone never seems to pay for their lunch....

 

...I ask my higher, lower and middle self the following question:

 

did he earn it somehow -- at an earlier point in this life or in a previous incarnation, or by default, by being someone written into the Jade Emperor's Book of Destinies as "the recipient of the free lunch,"

OR

is he stealing someone else's lunch, or someone else's lunch money, or stiffing those who prepared the lunch?..

 

Then I listen to the response.

 

If my higher, middle and lower selves, senses and sensibilities all go in unison, "he earned it somehow, you may not know how but it is obvious that this is an outstanding person deserving a free lunch and therefore receiving it" -- I accept this answer to my question.

 

If, on the other hand, they go in unison, "he's insecure behind a facade of grandeur, high-strung, suspicious, jumpy -- like a thief -- he must be stealing that lunch" -- then I accept this answer to my question.

 

And then, sometimes, my higher self goes, "I take the fifth," my middle self says, "I withhold a gut feeling -- decide for yourself," and my lower self contributes, "don't worry about it, just make sure I, me, get some lunch -- right now -- and I don't care if anybody else pays for theirs, matter of fact I don't care if you pay for yours, I just want it now, hurry up" --

then I accept "I don't have enough information" as the answer to my question.

Edited April 1, 2014 by Taomeow

[Horus]

...I ask my higher, lower and middle self the following question:

 

did he earn it somehow -- at an earlier point in this life or in a previous incarnation, or by default, by being someone written into the Jade Emperor's Book of Destinies as "the recipient of the free lunch,"

OR

is he stealing someone else's lunch, or someone else's lunch money, or stiffing those who prepared the lunch?..

 

Then I listen to the response.

 

If my higher, middle and lower selves, senses and sensibilities all go in unison, "he earned it somehow, you may not know how but it is obvious that this is an outstanding person deserving a free lunch and therefore receiving it" -- I accept this answer to my question.

 

If, on the other hand, they go in unison, "he's insecure behind a facade of grandeur, high-strung, suspicious, jumpy -- like a thief -- he must be stealing that lunch" -- then I accept this answer to my question.

 

And then, sometimes, my higher self goes, "I take the fifth," my middle self says, "I withhold a gut feeling -- decide for yourself," and my lower self contributes, "don't worry about it, just make sure I, me, get some lunch -- right now -- and I don't care if anybody else pays for theirs, matter of fact I don't care if you pay for yours, I just want it now, hurry up" --

then I accept "I don't have enough information" as the answer to my question.

..I ask my higher, lower and middle self the said question:

 

Reply:

 

We/you are the lunch, the lunch money, the cook, the cleaner, the payee, and the payer - so now you tell me you're still hungry for more?

 

No problammo kiddo - what's on your menu?

[BaguaKicksAss]

Whenever we think someone else is getting free lunch, it is only because we can see one very small part/aspect of their lives, not the full picture.

[Taomeow]

..I ask my higher, lower and middle self the said question:

 

Reply:

 

We/you are the lunch, the lunch money, the cook, the cleaner, the payee, and the payer - so now you tell me you're still hungry for more?

 

No problammo kiddo - what's on your menu?

 

Taiji. Houtian. The world of manifestations. Tao in motion. The exchange must take place. Someone has to cook the lunch, someone has to pay for lunch. No free lunch.

 

And you are talking wuji. Xiantian. The world of the unmanifest. Tao in stillness. The exchange can't take place. No one cooks the lunch, no one has to pay. No free lunch.

 

[Horus]

Whenever we think someone else is getting free lunch, it is only because we can see one very small part/aspect of their lives, not the full picture.

mmm, agree - probably getting free breakfast and dinner too!! Lucky SOBitches! (Ooh sorry SOGods!)

[Horus]

Taiji. Houtian. The world of manifestations. Tao in motion. The exchange must take place. Someone has to cook the lunch, someone has to pay for lunch. No free lunch.

 

And you are talking wuji. Xiantian. The world of the unmanifest. Tao in stillness. The exchange can't take place. No one cooks the lunch, no one has to pay. No free lunch.

 

its all illusion. there is no lunch.