Daoist Alchemy: Jerry A. Johnson

[Horus]

For those interested in studying and practicing this text, and other JAJ texts - please be invited to register at Jedi School - http://www.jedischool.cf

 

I've setup Jedi School as a vehicle for shared experiences and progress with JAJ's work (among other modalities).

 

May the Force be with you always

[BaguaKicksAss]

For those interested in studying and practicing this text, and other JAJ texts - please be invited to register at Jedi School - http://www.jedischool.cf

 

I've setup Jedi School as a vehicle for shared experiences and progress with JAJ's work (among other modalities).

 

May the Force be with you always

 

Have you trained with Dr. Johnson or one of his students? I would personally worry about a lot helping guide others practices with his medical qigong books without training and feedback from one of the actual teachers. Philosophical discussion sure, but the practice bit past the first couple of basics would concern me. Even moreso with his neigong work.

[Green Tiger]

I haven't studied with anyone from Johnson's lineage, but I've used his books as reference extensively. I understand BKA's concern. There are several practices, particularly in the Neigong book, that I won't be trying (no one has time to practice all that stuff!). That said, I think his books make excellent supplementary material.

 

I would caution anyone from making it their only source of practice info, but so long as you have an instructor who is familiar with the stuff you're doing from Johnson's books, I think you should be okay. If you ask your instructor about something you read in one of Johnson's books and he gives you a funny look, you might want to ignore whatever you read.

 

Personally I think the best thing in the Neigong book, and the thing that I use the most, is the 18 dao yin postural points. Those can be applied to just about any practice, since they are just instructions on posture. 50 pages of instructions on posture

 

I also like the 5 yin organ exercises and I think those are pretty safe. He mentioned that is one of the things he practices daily. The internal alchemy books talks extensively about them, but you might want to get his chi kung DVD to practice with as well.

Edited June 13, 2014 by Green Tiger

[Green Tiger]

For those interested in studying and practicing this text, and other JAJ texts - please be invited to register at Jedi School - http://www.jedischool.cf

 

I've setup Jedi School as a vehicle for shared experiences and progress with JAJ's work (among other modalities).

 

May the Force be with you always

 

I used to listen to a podcast called Jeditrainer, back in the early '00s. It got pretty popular, but Lucasfilm heard about it and sent the guy a cease and desist letter. The training he was teaching was a Hawaiian brand of shamanism called Huna, so he just changed the name to Hunatrainer.

 

I wonder if the Disney cease and desist letters will look any different than the Lucasfilm cease and desist letters.

[Apech]

I used to listen to a podcast called Jeditrainer, back in the early '00s. It got pretty popular, but Lucasfilm heard about it and sent the guy a cease and desist letter. The training he was teaching was a Hawaiian brand of shamanism called Huna, so he just changed the name to Hunatrainer.

 

I wonder if the Disney cease and desist letters will look any different than the Lucasfilm cease and desist letters.

 

 

I'm hoping the sequel cease and desist letters will be better than the prequels

[BaguaKicksAss]

I see JAJ's books as quite a bit different than most. They are manuals for medical qigong practitioners, as well as a neigong manual with many advanced techniques. Most books leave anything which works really strongly, or is advanced out (because really one should seek a teacher by that level).

 

I'd say just be careful, and I think offering folks advice from a standpoint of only being book taught (and not even 10 years experience) would be a very bad thing.

 

Though I feel this way about anything strong enough to actually work .

[Yascra]

Though I feel this way about anything strong enough to actually work .

Hm, if it's about shamanism and magic you're probably right.

If it's about spirituality, well, if you just work on yourself and invest some time to study and realize some essential texts, you can for sure still become better than most of today's Rinpoches

Edited June 13, 2014 by Yascra

[BaguaKicksAss]

Hm, if it's about shamanism and magic you're probably right.

If it's about spirituality, well, if you just work on yourself and invest some time to study and realize some essential texts, you can for sure still become better than most of today's Rinpoches

 

I have seen a LOT of folks really messing up other folks by teaching them and offering advice from a background of practice without a teacher ever to offer guidance or a second opinion. The ego (or whatever) tends to take over, and the person can go very very far astray. Not always obviously, but I'm still waiting to see the 100% completely self taught master who is way more in tune, powerful and self aware than those who have at least had some guidance or checks on their progress at some point.

 

I'm not so sure I'd agree with that; I've only ever met one Rinpoche in my life, and he definitely had more balance, grounding and obvious ability than the self taught spiritual folks I have met (it's been many, I get around a lot to various events and such). On a side note, I'll meet a second Rinpoche soon, I'll let you know my thoughts . (though I have also heard some Rinpoche horror stories).

[Yascra]

Hey, every male Tibetan will become a Rinpoche if he's born into the right family ^^ Very few are good guys, some undergo possession by compassionate masters of their lineage during teachings, but quite a lot are just materialists who were born into spirituality as their job and duty.

 

And even concerning the powerful guys I'd be cautious actually.

 

Well, I've been that burnt by bad persons that the thought of trusting someone on the spiritual road has really become an unrealistic idea, and which person would be humble enough to be tested for more than a year by some western lay-practicioner? That last exclusion even eradicates the two dozen or so persons that are qualified as real teachers, not just as teachers of magic or shamanism.

 

Good luck with that guy you're gonna meet anyway.

Edited June 13, 2014 by Yascra

[BaguaKicksAss]

Hey, every male Tibetan will become a Rinpoche if he's born into the right family ^^ Very few are good guys, some undergo possession by compassionate masters of their lineage during teachings, but quite a lot are just materialists who were born into spirituality as their job and duty.

 

And even concerning the powerful guys I'd be cautious actually.

 

Well, I've been that burnt by bad persons that the thought of trusting someone on the spiritual road has really become an unrealistic idea, and which person would be humble enough to be tested for more than a year by some western lay-practicioner? That last exclusion even eradicates the two dozen or so persons that are qualified as real teachers, not just as teachers of magic or shamanism.

 

Good luck with that guy you're gonna meet anyway.

 

I'm really sorry (and saddened) to hear about your experiences . I now remember you mentioning this before. It happens in all paths unfortunately (I have some horror stories of my own, and many people have confided with me). It is unfortunate that some people who are so spiritually immature, teach others. (they of course think of themselves as all enlightened like). Speaking of Dr. Johnson, he has a chapter on clinical ethics, which all teachers should take to heart.

 

One on one teaching can go either REALLY well, or really horribly. It is such a strong connection, some people can't handle it (and I mean the teachers here).

 

Oh the local guy I just talked with a little between the lectures he was giving, not someone I'm going to train with, just someone with a lot of balance and some good ways of sharing information. Fortunately the local community has tested him out already for awhile (people who I have known since prior to them meeting him).

 

On a side note, if you have trained with a few good ones, you wouldn't fit into my only book learned category either, in whatever you trained in .

[Yascra]

 

On a side note, if you have trained with a few good ones, you wouldn't fit into my only book learned category either, in whatever you trained in .

Well, that will hardly hold true for any humans, though with some humans there has been communication.

Training in a direct sense only with non-human entities if you want to restrict it to good ones. And actually I'd refer to myself as autodidact. Unfortunately accepting a bad person as a teacher, and if only for limited time, will create more hindrances to clear up afterwards than it has benefits. Therefore - beware of human beings as teachers

 

But don't worry, I'll hardly sell myself as a teacher or accept students, nor do anything but have exchange from student to student with others who may have less experiences. I know I'm far from being qualified for such a responsibility.

Doesn't hinder me from criticizing "authorities" who obviously lack personal qualification either, hehe.

Edited June 13, 2014 by Yascra

[Green Tiger]

I really liked what Dr. Johnson said in interview question #2:

 

"I believe that in any tradition, if a disciple sincerely applies himself, eventually his teacher will appear to continue with his training."

[Yascra]

I really liked what Dr. Johnson said in interview question #2:

 

"I believe that in any tradition, if a disciple sincerely applies himself, eventually his teacher will appear to continue with his training."

Well, not intending to disturb you, but after having fallen into the trap of thinking like that some times I pity that being should s/he show up being a "real one".

But I don't think that will happen anyway. I think if you want a tradition to have good teachers you need to become one yourself. And just accept that this tasks includes that you have to pick up the pieces of "real stuff" from the dust you get from others, purify it, realize it, and maybe finally make it usable.

At least we're not the first generation working on that.

Edited June 13, 2014 by Yascra

[Orion]

I think if you're doing some of the simpler stuff you should be okay, but once you get even into the intermediate territory, and especially when working on others, you could do real harm to both yourself and others. Keep in mind that Daoist lineage practices are not just about scholarly knowledge but non-material transmission of knowledge between student and teacher. The whole reason to work with a teacher in an energetic practice like Qi Gong is for wisdom to be transferred beyond the intellectualized process. This is part of what "virtue" means in Daoism. Teachers have higher virtue than students, usually... and the virtue transfers. A student can't transfer virtue to another student in the same practice, or the transferrence will be very low grade.

 

If you're only reading the books but don't have any direct teaching then there is a step missing; and if you proceed to then teach people with your incomplete wisdom, what you teach will either be ineffective or could mess up the student. The diagrams in the books look simple enough but there are nuances to the movements that can only be refined with proper tutelage. It's not an arrogance thing, or a "teacher knows best" thing (even though it's true), it's about safety and efficacy. If you think that any discipline is merely a summation of knowledge, then you are operating on a mind level only and will not appreciate the energetic subtleties.

 

You can learn about acupuncture by just reading books too, or any other discipline. If all we needed were books and not teachers, there would be no need for universities. Books are the knowledge and the teachers hold the wisdom of that applied knowledge through experience. It's that experience which culminates the practice, not the bare knowledge itself. And it is the presence of a teacher which transmits the seeds of consolidation. You actually learn better around someone who knows it better than you do, even if that person says nothing at all to you verbally.

Edited June 14, 2014 by Orion

[Horus]

Have you trained with Dr. Johnson or one of his students? I would personally worry about a lot helping guide others practices with his medical qigong books without training and feedback from one of the actual teachers. Philosophical discussion sure, but the practice bit past the first couple of basics would concern me. Even moreso with his neigong work.

Thank BKA

 

Jedi School is not about helping others...its a space for sharing experiences when working through JAJ and other Taoist (and other) texts.

 

If someone does or does not have a teacher for this work, it is up to them.

 

Personally I do not have a teacher, but then I can communicate very clearly with my spirit guides, past life personalities and many great masters that guide me.

 

I do appreciate your concerns, though, so thanks for sharing them.

 

If every teacher in the world just imploded and it was just you with these texts - what would you do?

Edited June 15, 2014 by Horus

[Horus]

I see JAJ's books as quite a bit different than most. They are manuals for medical qigong practitioners, as well as a neigong manual with many advanced techniques. Most books leave anything which works really strongly, or is advanced out (because really one should seek a teacher by that level).

 

I'd say just be careful, and I think offering folks advice from a standpoint of only being book taught (and not even 10 years experience) would be a very bad thing.

 

Though I feel this way about anything strong enough to actually work .

"and I think offering folks advice from a standpoint of only being book taught (and not even 10 years experience) would be a very bad thing."

 

That depends on what you call advice BKA.

 

Jedi School is not about offering advice...it is a space for shared experience and progress...which is not a bad thing.

 

But thanks for sharing your opinion.

[Horus]

For those interested in studying and practicing this text, and other JAJ texts - please be invited to register at Jedi School - http://www.jedischool.cf

 

I've setup Jedi School as a vehicle for shared experiences and progress with JAJ's work (among other modalities).

 

May the Force be with you always

For the sake of Clarity, for those that have not read my welcome note in Jedi School....there are no teachers at Jedi School.

 

I am not a teacher, and Jedi School does not offer help, or guidance, or training....nor do I.

 

Jedi School is a forum...a space for those that wish to share and engage with others that are practicing similar work.

 

Now, whether you choose to have a teacher, or not, we welcome your presence in the Forum.

 

BKA raised the issue of concern that a book learned practitioner is offering guidance to people...

 

I've setup Jedi School, but it's not about me, and I'm not teaching through it. I'm not offering that any more than anyone else offering their insights and opinions in a forum environment.

 

If community input, opinions, observations and insights into Taoist study and practice is not beneficial...than what are you doing on TTB?

 

Great responsibility must always be taken, even when offering one's own opinion. But then responsibility is about responding with right action - not about a set of rules which must be followed.

[Harmonious Emptiness]

Could anyone who's read Dr. Johnson's books explain a bit more for me about the the Five Virtues, in reference to the following from his taobums.com Q&A interview? Do they have names, such as "benevolence, righteousness, courtesy, wisdom, and truthfulness," or do they take the names of the 5 organ spirits?

 

It is important to note that the Five Virtues are the original energetic and spiritual manifestations of the Five Pure Lights. This is why, according to ancient Daoist teaching, the “Virtues” are composed of subtle energetic and spiritual substances, known as “Ling Qi” (“Spiritual Energy”) and “Ling Shen” (“Spiritual Mind”). The Energy Body and Spirit Body are both composed from this subtle energetic and spiritual substance.
Whenever an individual becomes extremely emotional (i.e., enraged, fearful, obsessive, depressed, etc.), he or she will naturally drain, burn up, and energetically waste this precious spiritual substance. Therefore, the foundation for all Daoist magic and alchemical work is traditionally built upon the cultivation and replenishing of the subtle spiritual energies of the disciple’s innate Virtues.

 

 

Merci beaucoup!

[Horus]

Prenatal Spiritual Virtues
(Compassion, Inner-Peace, Integrity, Honor; Wisdom, etc.).

 

There are 4 types of virtue explained in his system:

Apparent Virtue - acts of compassion visible to others and are rewarded with material or verbal gratitude etc

Yin Virtue - kind deeds without any expectation of reward

Mystical Virtue - good deeds without people knowing about it

Genuine Virtue - good deeds performed spontaneously as a reflection of ones inner state

[Harmonious Emptiness]

Prenatal Spiritual Virtues

(Compassion, Inner-Peace, Integrity, Honor; Wisdom, etc.).

 

There are 4 types of virtue explained in his system:

Apparent Virtue - acts of compassion visible to others and are rewarded with material or verbal gratitude etc

Yin Virtue - kind deeds without any expectation of reward

Mystical Virtue - good deeds without people knowing about it

Genuine Virtue - good deeds performed spontaneously as a reflection of ones inner state

 

Thanks Horus!

 

Does he list more (etc.?) or those are the Five Virtues he's talking about?

[Horus]

He has a chart breaking down the pre & postnatal wujing shen (5 esence spirits).

 

So, those are the "primary virtues" - but in the chart he expands as...Hun Manifesting as Healing Virtues of the Prenatal Wujingshen:

 

Eyes - Benevolence, Love, Compassion

 

Ears - Wisdom, Clear Perception, Self-Confidence

 

Nose - Integrity, Righteousness, Dignity & Generosity

 

Mouth - Truthfulness, Trust, Faith, Honesty, Openness & Acceptance

 

Tongue - Inner Peace, Tranquility & Healthy Boundary Setting

 

Skin - Great Joy & Happiness, Unconditional Love, Gratitude & Privilege

 

 

If you are interested in more in-depth discussions on this work it will be happening over time here - http://www.jedischool.cf

 

Edited July 1, 2014 by Horus

[Harmonious Emptiness]

Great, thanks again!

[Ormus]

My opinion is that Master Jerry books are great and I have some of them.

About he mentionig Jesus it is not strange to me because he say that he was on Long Hu Shan with Jesuits for initiation and training.Jesuits have this agenda of infiltration in other religions and esoteric orders but I dont know how Daoist Masters dont see this and dont guard tradition or where are Xians at all?

 

I hear that his books are copy paste from other authors,but still I think in the west we dont have better books.

 

Also I dont think that he put original teachings of Shang Qing Pai and Mao Shan and Longmen Nei Dan in this books.

 

Shang Qing and partly Tian Shi Pai have proto Nei Dan teachings and it is diferent then we know as today Nei Dan like in Longmen Pai.

 

But from all to me was interesting in his CV that he belong to Bo Jia Dao Pai.This school is one for which we know that it started with real Xian and have some unique secret teachings about Immortality.I didnt know that this lineage still exsist today as I hear it merged with Shang Qing and later Tian Shi Pai.For me is interesting question if his Wai Dan come from this school or Ling Bao Pai,because in his books are recognise teachings of Master Ge Hong.

 

Some accuse Jerry that he buy his ordination certificate on Long Hu Shan like other do,but we dont have clues and all looks authentic and official.

 

For me is remarkable how he menaged to be initiated in all this schools and advance to highest levels for such short time.

 

I hope that some of his student here on forum can say to use more about actual work in this particular schools to which Master Jerry belongs.

 

Ormus

[MIchael80]

No neidan in his Neigong book.(though there is a chapter on neidan)

All visualize this, visualize that etc.

 

And in neidan he clearly lacks knowledge and expierence.

 

the book is interesting for qi gong and nei gong though and Shows some advanced stuff in this field.

[dawei]

No neidan in his Neigong book.(though there is a chapter on neidan)

All visualize this, visualize that etc.

 

And in neidan he clearly lacks knowledge and expierence.

 

the book is interesting for qi gong and nei gong though and Shows some advanced stuff in this field.

 

IMO, he has created his own system of Daoist Alchemy.  The subtitle of the book is 'the secret teachings of esoteric daoist magic'.   

 

The book is described at Amazon as:

 

 

 

This work contains the Different Schools of Training Daoist Alchemy, the Three Cultivation Methods, Five Postnatal Energetic Transformations, Principles of Daoist Dao Yin Training, Yin and Yang Dao Yin Transformational Methods, Understanding Dao Yin Harmony, Energetic and Spiritual Manifestations, Shengong Cultivation Methods, Nourishing and Strengthening the Shen, Housing the Shen, Combining the Shen with the Respiration, Combining the Shen with the Qi, Three Training Levels of Ancient Daoist Mysticism: the Level of Man (Rooting Qi into the Lower Dantian, Circulating Qi through the Seas of Yang and Yin, Macrocosmic Orbit, Regulating the Qi of the Wu Xing, Fusion of the Eight Trigrams, Activating the Belt Vessel, Fusing and Energizing the Taiji Pole, Creating & Controlling the Immortal Fetus), the Level of Earth (description and examples) and the Level of Heaven (description and examples), Introduction to External and Internal Cultivation, External Cultivation Methods, Internal Cultivation Methods, Daoist Five Yang and Yin Organ Exercises, the Daoist Turtle Breathing Technique used for Gathering Qi, Five Yin Organ Energetic Manifestations, and the Old Man and the Tide Pool exercise.

 

I don't think most would relate neidan with esotetic daoist magic unless you are willing to accept his is looking at much older approaches instead of the neo-modern 'neidan' more often talked about here.

 

And his destination is the same but there are some specific goals which might be encapsulated as 'energy healers'.  This requires training and eventual skills in energy communication and manipulation. Again, I don't think neidan folks think in this way, so I would tend to view his program as his version of what he calls Daoist Alchemy-Neidan-Waidan-Esoteric Daoist Magic.