Daoist Alchemy: Jerry A. Johnson

[BaguaKicksAss]

Have you actually participated in the program and performed it? Or only read about it?

 

I have studied under a Qigong master prior to going to JAJ program... and I was taught the "Divine Hookup"... and used it in clinicals... and since have studied again further with others.

 

Do you know why a national program would provide a simple and safe and easily re-produced set? Do you know the liability which comes with such programs?

 

Why is this useful as a national program teaching?

 

And when does one actually decide whether for themselves this is useful or necessary?

 

I will tell you my experience.

 

As a national program, I get it. It is a safe method to teach everyone and anyone. Just follow it. No need to think.

 

I like aspects of it and what it aims to do... but it is not necessary.

 

The divine hookup is within you; not by rote steps. Rote steps are to help people get there... if your there, you smile at an instruction to: Left foot step; right foot step.

 

There is a place for it and as part of an eclectic practice there is much to use... from this and from everyone you learn energy work from.

 

Build your own system. Be your own person. Connect under your Way...

 

That is just my experience.

 

I think that one should at least practice whatever they plan to add to their personal practice, for a time, before modifying it. Often the person teaching something or writing about it will have reasons for certain things, and the reader might not always know the hows and whys of everything. I thought I would mention this since not everyone has been neigong/medical qigong/etc. for ages...

[BaguaKicksAss]

That is exactly what he does... call upon his teachers

 

Maybe the counter question to us all is: Have any of us?

 

Most definitely .

[BaguaKicksAss]

I already have his original Chinese Medical Qigong Therapy text and also The Essence of Internal Martial Arts volumes 1 and 2. For my purposes, I think that's all I need so far as his books are concerned.

 

Which volume contains the info on mantra and mudra? I'd have to take a look at the CMQT book I have, but I don't remember any chapters on mantra or mudra. There were chapters covering Dao Yin postural training and healing sounds, is that what you're talking about?

 

I would agree that the Dao Yin training sections from CMQT would be good for people to start with. I'm not sure which volume of his new medical qigong books contain that info.

 

He has an entire book on mudras.

 

I think there are a few in his medical qigong books, I'd guess book 2, but nothing like the entire book on them. There's also some interesting advanced 1-10 versions with... stuff you do with your hands, don't recall the proper term for it..... Think a few are covered in the neigong book too.

 

Obviously I need to reread his stuff .

[ralis]

He has an entire book on mudras.

 

I think there are a few in his medical qigong books, I'd guess book 2, but nothing like the entire book on them. There's also some interesting advanced 1-10 versions with... stuff you do with your hands, don't recall the proper term for it..... Think a few are covered in the neigong book too.

 

Obviously I need to reread his stuff .

 

Would you provide a title?

[Zhongyongdaoist]

Would you provide a title?

 

I will in a bit, i am working on my reply to Green Tiger now.

[Zhongyongdaoist]

I already have his original Chinese Medical Qigong Therapy text and also The Essence of Internal Martial Arts volumes 1 and 2. For my purposes, I think that's all I need so far as his books are concerned.

 

Which volume contains the info on mantra and mudra? I'd have to take a look at the CMQT book I have, but I don't remember any chapters on mantra or mudra. There were chapters covering Dao Yin postural training and healing sounds, is that what you're talking about?

 

I would agree that the Dao Yin training sections from CMQT would be good for people to start with. I'm not sure which volume of his new medical qigong books contain that info.

 

The Essence of Internal Martial Arts volumes 1 and 2: Lucky you. I only became aware of these after they were no longer available.

 

Chinese Medical Qigong Therapy: I don't have this book so I cannot make any reasonable comparison. Obviously the Volumes of the new series have much more information.

 

Which volume contains the info on mantra and mudra?: Mostly Volume Two, but see below for more details.

 

There were chapters covering Dao Yin postural training and healing sounds: No, there are sections on Daoyin training in Volume Two and Sections on projecting healing sound in Volume Three, but there is more that is purely magical in these also.

 

When I first bought his medical Qigong books I bought volumes Two and Three at the same time. I needed Volume Two because at the time in his books he referenced his fundamental preliminary exercise 'One to Ten' in Volume Two, but did not have it in his Daoist Magic books. Later when his book on Talismanic Magic was published, it did included 'One to Ten'. At the time he had detailed indexes for each volume posted on his site and Volume Three looked interesting containing more information of a magical nature. Later I ordered Volume One and Volume Four. Volume One I found very valuable, while I was familiar with much of the material, it was scattered over many books and then there was material in it that was not in any book that I had, but which I had heard about, so it is valuable as a compendium of Chinese Esoteric Anatomy. Volume Four deals more with healing techniques, though with a little creativity anyone could apply them to magic also.

 

Having gone back and reviewed these volumes, I can say that anyone who is interested in the Daoist Magic Books would be well off investing in at least the first three volumes of the Medical Qigong series. They are good introductions to all of the practices that later appear in the Daoist Magic books. One could work with the material in the first three medical Qigong books for at least a couple of years and lay an excellent foundation for using the Daoist Magic books and also find out if one really likes Daoist Magic or not. All this for less then $200.00, plus applicable tax and shipping. This is less than most of the other books cost singly. This now would be my recommended procedure for someone who has little experience with Daoist Magic or magic in general.

 

Volume Two has a great deal of training in Daoyin as well as material on mantra, mudra, soul and spirit projection, basic exorcism, etc. Volume Three gives a lot of information about space clearing and protection within the context of setting up a medical Qigong practice, but anyone with a little magical background can see its usefulness to magic.

 

Jerry Alan Johnson's specific book on mantra and mudra is Daoist Magical Incantations, Hand Seals, and Star Stepping. Incantations are of course what I referred to as mantra, Hand seals are mudra and as a bonus you get to learn how the Daoist 'paces the void' by doing ritual walks, danced in public rituals complete with music, but usually walked in private and some of them can also be done in the palm and fingers of ones hand for seated meditation practices. I have walked the Nine Stars on my fingers hundreds of times, probably in the thousands by now. I'll try to say more later, but I think that covers most of what you asked.

 

I might scan and post the indexes, while technically the indexes are copyright, Jerry Allen Johnson will not lose income and they since they might help his sales if people see how much good information is contained in them, I don't think he would object.

 

Rushed right now, sorry for any mistakes or omissions.

[Horus]

That is exactly what he does... call upon his teachers

 

Maybe the counter question to us all is: Have any of us?

Yep, the first time I ever did it I summoned Miyamoto Mushashi.

 

I didn't think I could actually do it (no ceremony - just intention), so I boldly just pulled him up from the "underworld". I was meditating by the bay and he rose up like a massive island out of the water.

 

He was really pissed at me and went back down again.

 

Needless to say I was much more considerate after that one...

[Taomeow]

That is exactly what he does... call upon his teachers

 

Maybe the counter question to us all is: Have any of us?

 

Actually, that's not what makes someone a shaman. Shamans serve communities. Sorcerers serve themselves. Shaman is a job description, not a talent/ability description.

[Green Tiger]

Actually, that's not what makes someone a shaman. Shamans serve communities. Sorcerers serve themselves. Shaman is a job description, not a talent/ability description.

 

Well, however we slice it, Flowing Hands was criticizing Johnson for some comment he made about Jesus and waxing all "the tao is emptiness, only emptiness and nothing but emptiness" and basically saying that anything and everything Johnson taught was invalidated by his hangup on Jesus.

 

I was just hazarding a guess that he's admired some sage or other himself. Perhaps even invoked? Canoodled with? I dunno.

 

He has an entire book on mudras.

 

I think there are a few in his medical qigong books, I'd guess book 2, but nothing like the entire book on them. There's also some interesting advanced 1-10 versions with... stuff you do with your hands, don't recall the proper term for it..... Think a few are covered in the neigong book too.

 

Obviously I need to reread his stuff .

 

There's more than one version of the 1-10 meditation? I was not aware of that. I think I only know the basic 1-10 meditation. What book are the others in?

[Green Tiger]

Have you actually participated in the program and performed it? Or only read about it?

 

I have studied under a Qigong master prior to going to JAJ program... and I was taught the "Divine Hookup"... and used it in clinicals... and since have studied again further with others.

 

Do you know why a national program would provide a simple and safe and easily re-produced set? Do you know the liability which comes with such programs?

 

Why is this useful as a national program teaching?

 

And when does one actually decide whether for themselves this is useful or necessary?

 

I will tell you my experience.

 

As a national program, I get it. It is a safe method to teach everyone and anyone. Just follow it. No need to think.

 

I like aspects of it and what it aims to do... but it is not necessary.

 

The divine hookup is within you; not by rote steps. Rote steps are to help people get there... if your there, you smile at an instruction to: Left foot step; right foot step.

 

There is a place for it and as part of an eclectic practice there is much to use... from this and from everyone you learn energy work from.

 

Build your own system. Be your own person. Connect under your Way...

 

That is just my experience.

 

Yeah, I dig that. He was basically giving a generic template by which to practice. In my personal practice, my divine hookup involves Catholic prayers. I wouldn't necessarily teach it that way, if I were inclined to teach, but they hold personal significance to me, so they are powerful.

 

In his example invocation for the divine hookup, which I did not quote, he uses language that sounds very Christian, but he doesn't ever specifically reference Jesus.

 

My point was to show Flowing Hands that not everything Johnson teaches is Jesus-centric. I think he has a very sophisticated approach. Perhaps I didn't do the best job of illustrating that point.

[Taomeow]

Well, however we slice it, Flowing Hands was criticizing Johnson for some comment he made about Jesus and waxing all "the tao is emptiness, only emptiness and nothing but emptiness" and basically saying that anything and everything Johnson taught was invalidated by his hangup on Jesus.

 

I was just hazarding a guess that he's admired some sage or other himself. Perhaps even invoked? Canoodled with? I dunno.

 

 

There's more than one version of the 1-10 meditation? I was not aware of that. I think I only know the basic 1-10 meditation. What book are the others in?

 

I understand.

 

What I meant was, JAJ puts out authentic teachings, which is a service to community. Which makes him, among other things, a shaman -- a service to community with involvement of the spiritual realm is a shamanic qualification. The service is an expensive one but this is not unheard of, traditional shamans are usually not allowed by the spirit world to serve for free, and taoist sorcerers who offer their services for hire, ditto (has to do with their resources being required on occasion by the spirit world itself, so poverty is discouraged unless the shaman or the sorcerer has other means to repay the spirits for their assistance.)

 

FH, on the other flowing hand, has never mentioned doing anything spirit-mediated for anybody else -- doesn't mean he never does, he just never provided any information to that effect. If he is a shaman indeed, there's got to be an account of the work done for the community. JAJ has provided such an account to my satisfaction, so he IS a shaman in my book. FH will be when/if he does.

[Horus]

He has an entire book on mudras.

 

I think there are a few in his medical qigong books, I'd guess book 2, but nothing like the entire book on them. There's also some interesting advanced 1-10 versions with... stuff you do with your hands, don't recall the proper term for it..... Think a few are covered in the neigong book too.

 

Obviously I need to reread his stuff .

 

I'm actually reading this right now...

 

Jerry A. Johnson - CMQT (Vol2) - Energetic Alchemy, Dao Yin Therapy and Qi Deviations

 

Has a bit on mudras/hand seals.......

 

see below

 

HAND SEALS (MUDRAS) .............................................................................................................. 245

COMBINING HAND SEALS AND INCANTATIONS ............................................................................. 246

DOUBLE HAND SEALS ................................................................................................................. 246

EIGHT TRIGRAM DOUBLE-HAND SEALS USED FOR YI-JING DIVINATION ......................................... 248

DAOIST EIGHT TRIGRAM DOUBLE-HANDED SEALS FOR GATHERING POWER .................................. 249

BUDDHIST DOUBLE HANDED SEALS ............................................................................................. 252

SINGLE HAND SEALS .................................................................................................................. 253

SINGLE-HANDED HAND SEALS: DAOIST ....................................................................................... 253

BAGUA SINGLE HANDED HAND SEALS ........................................................................................ 255

[MooNiNite]

I understand.

 

What I meant was, JAJ puts out authentic teachings, which is a service to community. Which makes him, among other things, a shaman -- a service to community with involvement of the spiritual realm is a shamanic qualification. The service is an expensive one but this is not unheard of, traditional shamans are usually not allowed by the spirit world to serve for free, and taoist sorcerers who offer their services for hire, ditto (has to do with their resources being required on occasion by the spirit world itself, so poverty is discouraged unless the shaman or the sorcerer has other means to repay the spirits for their assistance.)

 

FH, on the other flowing hand, has never mentioned doing anything spirit-mediated for anybody else -- doesn't mean he never does, he just never provided any information to that effect. If he is a shaman indeed, there's got to be an account of the work done for the community. JAJ has provided such an account to my satisfaction, so he IS a shaman in my book. FH will be when/if he does.

 

I wonder if spirits would help a person they "liked" or found of interest for free? Or do you think there is always a "fee".

[MooNiNite]

I'm actually reading this right now...

 

Jerry A. Johnson - CMQT (Vol2) - Energetic Alchemy, Dao Yin Therapy and Qi Deviations

 

Has a bit on mudras/hand seals.......

 

see below

 

HAND SEALS (MUDRAS) .............................................................................................................. 245

COMBINING HAND SEALS AND INCANTATIONS ............................................................................. 246

DOUBLE HAND SEALS ................................................................................................................. 246

EIGHT TRIGRAM DOUBLE-HAND SEALS USED FOR YI-JING DIVINATION ......................................... 248

DAOIST EIGHT TRIGRAM DOUBLE-HANDED SEALS FOR GATHERING POWER .................................. 249

BUDDHIST DOUBLE HANDED SEALS ............................................................................................. 252

SINGLE HAND SEALS .................................................................................................................. 253

SINGLE-HANDED HAND SEALS: DAOIST ....................................................................................... 253

BAGUA SINGLE HANDED HAND SEALS ........................................................................................ 255

do they have a PDF version of this book going around? I'd rather buy an online version

Edited March 28, 2014 by MooNiNite

[Horus]

I wonder if spirits would help a person they "liked" or found of interest for free? Or do you think there is always a "fee".

It depends on the spirit - just like it does here with people...

[Taomeow]

I wonder if spirits would help a person they "liked" or found of interest for free? Or do you think there is always a "fee".

 

Relationships between spirits and humans are at least as complex as between humans and humans. Just like in our middle world, there's some rules of engagement in the upper and lower realms, and one simple way to understand these rules is in terms of power exchange.

 

Power, the one and only commodity in the universe with "ten thousand" manifestations, is an inherent property of tao ("The Way And Its Power" is the correct translation of Tao Te Ching). When you claim someone's property, you have to be prepared to give something in return.

 

So, the answer to your first question is no. The law of non-depletion of power supersedes the laws of non-disappearance of matter and energy. No one can give what ultimately isn't theirs to give without reimbursing the true owner. If the spirit likes you and helps you for free, something is taken away from those who are not benefiting from such an advantageous position in life. You get something that may have been theirs instead if you weren't getting the help of the spirit biased in your favor. If you are a beneficiary of such a relationship, think hard and think fast how to give back even if it's not asked of you, or you will inadvertently incur an existential debt -- in this world or in other worlds.

Edited March 28, 2014 by Taomeow

[MooNiNite]

So, the answer to your first question is no. The law of non-depletion of power supersedes the laws of non-disappearance of matter and energy. No one can give what ultimately isn't theirs to give without reimbursing the true owner. If the spirit likes you and helps you for free, something is taken away from those who are not benefiting from such an advantageous position in life. You get something that may have been theirs instead if you weren't getting the help of the spirit biased in your favor. If you are a beneficiary of such a relationship, think hard and think fast how to give back even if it's not asked of you, or you will inadvertently incur an existential debt -- in this world or in other worlds.

 

I wonder if meditating, or becoming enlightened, a "free spirit" could release these debts?

 

probably not...

 

actually i just remembered enlightenment mostly frees one from creating new karma...somewhat..

 

I guess a good example would be if a person is burdened with disease because of their debts, but when they become a free spirit then they heal those debts manifested in the form of disease. I mean all the suffering from the disease has to be a form of repayment.

Edited March 28, 2014 by MooNiNite

[flowing hands]

 

I understand.

 

What I meant was, JAJ puts out authentic teachings, which is a service to community. Which makes him, among other things, a shaman -- a service to community with involvement of the spiritual realm is a shamanic qualification. The service is an expensive one but this is not unheard of, traditional shamans are usually not allowed by the spirit world to serve for free, and taoist sorcerers who offer their services for hire, ditto (has to do with their resources being required on occasion by the spirit world itself, so poverty is discouraged unless the shaman or the sorcerer has other means to repay the spirits for their assistance.)

 

FH, on the other flowing hand, has never mentioned doing anything spirit-mediated for anybody else -- doesn't mean he never does, he just never provided any information to that effect. If he is a shaman indeed, there's got to be an account of the work done for the community. JAJ has provided such an account to my satisfaction, so he IS a shaman in my book. FH will be when/if he does.

Complete nonsense, at this very time I am for the bums here begging for further verses of the DDJ. I have offered up many insights to various things on this site for free. You really don't know what you are talking about. A shaman may serve the community, he/she also lived alone on the mountains and then visited the local community where they taught their skills or did healing for return of goods. This allowed them to go back up the mountain. There is a traditional saying in spiritual and kung fu practices about going up and coming down the mountain. In my years a s a shaman I have healed and done all sorts of things for people and I would serve for free, for it is the Immortal Master who decides whether the person should pay not the shaman. In temples today, people who receive healing from a temple shaman usually pay by giving money to the temple committee for the up keep of the temple. The shaman receives nothing but spiritual merit. He/she follows the Daoist saying of looking for no profit but for serving others.

Of course plastic shamans exist today, who live in fancy houses surrounded by wealth and think it is fine to collect material possessions and wealth through what they do. They delude themselves into thinking that they are spirit led and delude their customers out of their money.

A pure spirit does not require any payment, conversely an impure spirit does.

[flowing hands]

 

You certainly know how to change the subject quickly when you have been caught on your own hook. Your argument at this point is purely ad hominem and continues to make assumptions and assertions about people, and their supposed inferiority to your own definition of a 'true cultivator'. I could ask similar questions about you, but I leave that to others. As I said you seem to want to change the subject and no one can be blamed if they think it is because you have no satisfactory answer.

 

 

you are aiming to have nothing in your heart other than the Dao when cultivating and you can't call it anything else: You criticized Jerry Alan Johnson, myself and others for not knowing this. I provide an example from a tiny portion of his writing and you act as if it is all he has to say about the matter. He has much more to say about this and trees too.

 

I have no need for Jerry Johsons book: You do if you want to put forward a cogent and convincing criticism of it. Otherwise even a person of relatively little judgement is likely to conclude that you have nothing important to say about the matter.

I'll go back to my original point.

 

By definition a Daoist believes and is a completely different mind set, to any other religious beliefs. Jerry Johnson says that he was brought up a Christian and that he still has Jesus in his heart. Now I could write a book about all sorts of different practices, expounding on various things within them, go through the motions of doing them and learning them, receive certificates etc., but actually when it came to the real core I didn't fully understand what all these things that I have learn't really meant. Sure through practicing I had achieved a high level in whatever I did, but I was limited by my persuasion. Now a Daoist doesn't start off with any belief in any God or spiritual leader. The starting point of their pursuit is the Dao. If we are talking about Daoist alchemy, yes I'm sure Jerry Johnson knows all the techniques, but does he know the core? If someone interviewed me, you would not here me say anything about having anything but the Dao in my heart, even though I am the student of three Immortal Masters. The core is the very essence of cultivation. Likewise you have not said anything that shows me that you have the slightest idea about what you are doing. Words and techniques are very easy to learn, the core is not and that is why Li Erh wrote a book about trying to find it. It is very elusive. Having Jesus in your heart certainly will not help in the slightest.

[joeblast]

A pure spirit does not require any payment

but I also agree with tm's view of non depletion and such

[flowing hands]

but I also agree with tm's view of non depletion and such

A pure spirit looks after the shaman and there is no depletion!

[BaguaKicksAss]

I wonder if spirits would help a person they "liked" or found of interest for free? Or do you think there is always a "fee".

 

Depends on the spirit but... if someone is going to ask me to help them move (for eg.), and it's a long day, they had better provide lunch so I have the energy to help them. Incense is good...

[BaguaKicksAss]

Yeah, I dig that. He was basically giving a generic template by which to practice. In my personal practice, my divine hookup involves Catholic prayers. I wouldn't necessarily teach it that way, if I were inclined to teach, but they hold personal significance to me, so they are powerful.

 

In his example invocation for the divine hookup, which I did not quote, he uses language that sounds very Christian, but he doesn't ever specifically reference Jesus.

 

My point was to show Flowing Hands that not everything Johnson teaches is Jesus-centric. I think he has a very sophisticated approach. Perhaps I didn't do the best job of illustrating that point.

 

The divine hookup is very personal. Judging by the fact that *I* in particular do it, and have been taught it by them...... shows that it most definitely can and should be (with the proper guidelines in mind) customized . (I'm neither Christian nor Daoist).

 

Though unless you are really clear on what each bit does and why, best to not go changing things more than a word or two for the "divine" part. (yes obviously adding in some prayer of your tradition Green Tiger sounds good, and I do as well).

[Green Tiger]

The divine hookup is very personal. Judging by the fact that *I* in particular do it, and have been taught it by them...... shows that it most definitely can and should be (with the proper guidelines in mind) customized . (I'm neither Christian nor Daoist).

 

Though unless you are really clear on what each bit does and why, best to not go changing things more than a word or two for the "divine" part. (yes obviously adding in some prayer of your tradition Green Tiger sounds good, and I do as well).

 

I learned healing from another tradition, but I've found that there are a lot of similarities with Johnson's stuff.

 

They actually seem to combine the divine hookup, rooting the light, and invocations into one simple sentence: "May the will of the light be done." While I think it has been a good exercise for me to differentiate them a little more and understand the importance of each individual step and associated goal, I think all three can be accomplished with that one sentence.

[Taomeow]

Complete nonsense, at this very time I am for the bums here begging for further verses of the DDJ.

 

This is not a shamanic service. If out of the goodness of your heart you do it, you give of yourself. This is absolutely allowed. Your heart is yours to spend as you see fit. If you give with spirits assisting in the exchange, however, this is a transaction. Ever heard of all those folks in Asia burning tons of paper money when they want something good for their deceased relatives? The idea is, only some super duper special dudes get direct assistance of major deities, the regular shaman or priest or lay practitioner must go via lesser spirits, and these have needs. Come to think of it, super dupers also address the needs of the spirits and deities in all traditions -- e.g. the Gilgamesh version of the Great Deluge has a Noah's counterpart being granted immortality by the gods because after they haphazardly drowned the whole of humanity, there was no one to make offerings and they were starving. This guy made the offerings upon reaching the first patch of dry land and gods and goddesses "rushed in like hungry flies" to the smoke of his incense and the vapors of his booze.

 

Of course the movers and shakers of human history may not have been a match for you, with your connections in the spirit world... that's understandable, but I described something traditional and standard, not something customized for someone special like you.