Daoist Alchemy: Jerry A. Johnson

[Aetherous]

If Dr Johnson understood the very nature of the Dao, he would not be a Christian, a Bhuddhist. nor would he have Jesus in his heart.

 

You're speaking without understanding about other religions and people...and besides talking trash about the person who this thread is about, you're taking the thread way off topic with your personal views on religion. This thread is not about flowing hands.

[flowing hands]

You're speaking without understanding about other religions and people...and besides talking trash about the person who this thread is about, you're taking the thread way off topic with your personal views on religion. This thread is not about flowing hands.

I think you need to look a little more carefully......................

 

That depends on ones perspective, a Daoist is a Daoist and there are fundamental reason why a Daoist would not believe in other religions, this is all I am saying.

 

Most Daoist are not religious. Perhaps you need to have a go at h.urhiar also, this thread is not about Jesus!

 

But Dr Johnson has made a significant revelation in saying that "he has Jesus in his heart", when he purports to being a Daoist. This is not my personal view of religion. If one is talking about internal alchemy and Dr Johnson has written a $200 book on the subject, if ones knows a little about internal alchemy then all what he is saying hasn't a shred of credence.

 

This is very significant to the thread

 

I don't think I am getting off the thread, I am many steps ahead of you!

 

Showing a snide attitude does not become you.

[Aetherous]

What I said stands...I suggest you reread it with a clear mind. I will not discuss this with you any further, because you are taking the thread off topic.

[Dr_D]

Fundamentalists are fundamentalists.

 

We are all different, not better, not worse, just different. Appreciate the differences instead of the short comings and you'll see people--and yourself--in a better light.

 

In light,

 

Dr. D

[h.uriahr]

No he would have the Dao in his heart and nothing else: 'Dao Xin'. He would also know that there are fundamental differences between Daoism and other religious beliefs.

 

Jesus who you have a passion for, could be just a myth like the rest of the Bible, there is no evidence that he existed let alone did any of the things he is attributed to have done. Your belief is based on what? Chinese whispers with prejudice against women; the whole history of Christian missionaries is of abuse of others cultures and beliefs....in the name of Jesus of course.

I don't think I need to go into vast quantities of evidence to prove my point.

 

Seen any Daoist go into other countries rape and pillage those peoples, force them to go to church or starve, be imprisoned or murdered etc.etc........short answer, NO

 

Keep your Jesus rubbish to yourself and don't take the mickey out of a genuine spiritual master.

 

Self proclaimed Taoist Immortal. Immortals are intelligent right?....

[h.uriahr]

No he would have the Dao in his heart and nothing else: 'Dao Xin'. He would also know that there are fundamental differences between Daoism and other religious beliefs.

 

Jesus who you have a passion for, could be just a myth like the rest of the Bible, there is no evidence that he existed let alone did any of the things he is attributed to have done. Your belief is based on what? Chinese whispers with prejudice against women; the whole history of Christian missionaries is of abuse of others cultures and beliefs....in the name of Jesus of course.

I don't think I need to go into vast quantities of evidence to prove my point.

 

Seen any Daoist go into other countries rape and pillage those peoples, force them to go to church or starve, be imprisoned or murdered etc.etc........short answer, NO

 

Keep your Jesus rubbish to yourself and don't take the mickey out of a genuine spiritual master.

 

I like how you (unknown immortal, btw why hide? Immortals are badass right?) jump on the ol offensive with JAJ. You know this may be just a hair on the harsh side but in some areas people that do those things are called cowards. Not that you are. I can't take back all the horrible things that MAN did in the Name of Christ. People do stupid, harsh and ugly things all the time...look at the bums...we are some jacked up folk

 

Even though I make fun of you, sort of, I do enjoy your posts believe it or not.

[ChiDragon]

1. Seen any Daoist go into other countries rape and pillage those peoples, force them to go to church or starve, be imprisoned or murdered etc.etc........short answer, NO

 

2. That depends on ones perspective, a Daoist is a Daoist and there are fundamental reason why a Daoist would not believe in other religions, this is all I am saying.

 

3. Most Daoist are not religious.

 

4. But Dr Johnson has made a significant revelation in saying that "he has Jesus in his heart", when he purports to being a Daoist. This is not my personal view of religion. If one is talking about internal alchemy and Dr Johnson has written a $200 book on the subject, if ones knows a little about internal alchemy then all what he is saying hasn't a shred of credence.

 

This is very significant to the thread

 

I don't think I am getting off the thread, I am many steps ahead of you!

 

This is the highest realm of understanding in Taoism.

Edited October 20, 2013 by ChiDragon

[xor]

Even though I make fun of you, sort of, I do enjoy your posts believe it or not.

 

Saying it like that is like coating a blade with honey though.

[spiraltao]

Would flowing hands or chidragon (anyone) explain why "having Christ in your heart" contradicts Internal Alchemy?

Why would associating Christ(maybe just religon?) with his views make him NOT taoist? ...or render him ignorant of internal alchemy.

Edited October 21, 2013 by spiraltao

[Brian]

That-which-is cannot be "boiled down" to an individual, regardless of whether the "individual" is Jesus or Gautama or Mohammed or Jehovah or Ra or El or Allah or Marduk or Yahweh or Oz the Great & Powerful. It is possible to find elements of what-which-is in many individuals but holding any one of them in one's heart (even if that one was/is united with the Light) creates a barrier which prevents unity with the Light.

Edited October 21, 2013 by Brian

[joeblast]

No he would have the Dao in his heart and nothing else: 'Dao Xin'. He would also know that there are fundamental differences between Daoism and other religious beliefs.

 

Jesus who you have a passion for, could be just a myth like the rest of the Bible, there is no evidence that he existed let alone did any of the things he is attributed to have done. Your belief is based on what? Chinese whispers with prejudice against women; the whole history of Christian missionaries is of abuse of others cultures and beliefs....in the name of Jesus of course.

I don't think I need to go into vast quantities of evidence to prove my point.

 

Seen any Daoist go into other countries rape and pillage those peoples, force them to go to church or starve, be imprisoned or murdered etc.etc........short answer, NO

 

Keep your Jesus rubbish to yourself and don't take the mickey out of a genuine spiritual master.

I understand the perspective, but one cannot point to perversions of teachings and call them congruent with the teachings themselves. That the core teachings of Jesus were perverted into such horrible things as the inquisition have zero reflections on jesus, that all reflects on those who felt it necessary to pervert the teachings.

[dawei]

Would flowing hands or chidragon (anyone) explain why "having Christ in your heart" contradicts Internal Alchemy?

 

Why would associating Christ(maybe just religon?) with his views make him NOT taoist? ...or render him ignorant of internal alchemy.

 

Following up on Brian's point: What is the highest goal of alchemy? Is it to hold something of temporal material in your heart?

 

However in high regard we may think the finger pointing may be... None of the ancient texts relate to hold that finger in our heart.... Rather hold, obtain, abide in what?

[Green Tiger]

It would be interesting to hear what Dr. Johnson himself would say to the accusation that he can't be a Christian and a Taoist, or that he can't have Jesus in his heart and also be at one with the Tao. Personally, I've often been perplexed at the assertion that someone has allowed Jesus into their hearts. What does that mean, in the practical sense? Obviously they don't unlock a little door in their left ventricle and ask Jesus to step through.

 

I've known Baptist ministers who seemed to think this was like an alchemical transformation a person goes through. Maybe the concept of accepting Jesus into one's heart has a Taoist counterpart. Perhaps it is just another way of saying 'merge with the Tao.'

 

Obviously I'm spit balling here, but until Dr. Johnson has a chance to explain what he means, I'm not going to pass judgement.

Edited October 21, 2013 by Green Tiger

[Brian]

Maybe at certain times on one's path it is helpful to have a..."hand to hold." At a certain point, one can let go of the "hand holding."

 

Incorporating beings and vibrations that are of quality calibers have been enormously helpful in unifying with the Light. Some of them I have reached out to. Others have reached out to me. Including Master Wang.

I am in complete agreement! And many people are very satisfied with leaving the training wheels on their bicycles. (Or seem unaware that they even HAVE training wheels...)

[BaguaKicksAss]

Holdonasec.... doesn't Jesus count as part of the Dao?

 

I'd guess he does, since isn't everything and every being supposed to be part of the Dao?

 

I'm not Christian personally, but I hold my family in my heart (for example), and would hope this doesn't get in the way of anything Daoist. I would personally figure the more I hold in my heart the better?

[三江源]

.

Edited July 21, 2014 by cat

[BaguaKicksAss]

And this thread got me curious (but I didn't post earlier as I didn't want to go off topic, however now I see I'm in good company lol). I'm wondering, and please don't be offended, Taoists or Christians, as it is really something I'm curious about.

 

A few folks said Taoism isn't religion, and the whole Jesus thing isn't part of it..... so I got to wondering what about the whole lighting candles and doing prayers to the Jade Emperor, the Three Pure Ones, Guan Gong (sp?) and so forth? How is this different than prayers and candles for different Deities? Or perhaps for Saints (people set out candles and requests for Christian saints all the time).

 

I'm curious how it is different, in the sense of one being religion but the other not? I can see how they are different paths, different beliefs and entities but the practices look similar.

[dawei]

It's a good point you make.

 

One of the things that one wouldnt be holding in one's heart is resistance to Jesus. Or attachment to an ideology which excludes Jesus.

 

I agree... it is a two-way conduit... neither holding nor excluding on some level. His usage may be not well understood and I was going to comment on it to Green Tiger... so I'll use this time to do so... as we know... if I respond to two people it will get merged anyway

 

@Green Tiger:

I don't think he means like born-again christians might, to 'accept Jesus' means as a potential Taoist counterpart. There is no transubstantiation going on here. To hold Jesus in your heart, as he used it, means to see that his teaching (or some teaching) is valuable towards understand true reality.

 

He mentions that each person's path helps define how they view where they are and who they are and he relates his background in such areas.

 

I also come out of very conservative christianity and understand his point; and I've studied under his program. I will say that I was surprised at the 'christian talk' at times among the attendees; they have a hard time not see the "move up" aspect so easily, as RV may be succinctly saying

 

I would not fret any need to hear from him to defend this meaning... The moral of the story is: Don't look at another: Whether Jesus, Buddha, Laozi, or JJ... Look at yourself and where your radar is set to.

[三江源]

.

Edited July 8, 2014 by cat

[traveler]

In Taoist Alchemy, do you find another energy, cosmic or whatever you want to call it, merging with you to help you evolve at times? Is progress in alchemy all your own doing or do you get help? Is there really a Master who comes home as the Golden Flower describes it? You could say that the Master is the Self, but then who is the Self?

 

Heretofore we have spoken of the circulation of the Light, indicating thereby the initial release which works from without upon what lies within. This is to aid one in obtaining the Master. It is for the pupils in the beginning stages. They go through the two lower transitions in order to gain the upper one. (Secret of the Golden Flower)

[ChiDragon]

Would flowing hands or chidragon (anyone) explain why "having Christ in your heart" contradicts Internal Alchemy?

 

Why would associating Christ(maybe just religon?) with his views make him NOT taoist? ...or render him ignorant of internal alchemy.

 

 

This is not a contradiction of Internal Alchemy but a matter of religion. You can be either one but not both if you understand what Taoism is all about in a religious sense.

 

If one is not claiming oneself as any part of any religion, then one can claim that oneself is learning all the philosophies. It is fine as long as one is not practicing all the religions at the same time because each religion has its own unique belief.

 

Taoism follows the way of Nature with free flow of things. Taoists do not force anyone to believe what they believe. Flowing hands had made it very clear about that.

Edited October 21, 2013 by ChiDragon

[flowing hands]

Lets go back to the thread.

 

A Daoist cultivator/alchemist would pursue a path that is at one with the Dao. The pursuit of emptiness, of letting go of all that one had learned etc., until one is truly open. That means that in pursuing this path the teachings of Jesus, Bhudda, Mohamed etc must be completely ignored.

 

Now a Daoist cultivator would of course have read Lao Tzu DDJ, where there are guides for them to achieve this highest state. But even then once this state is achieved, no teachings can surpass such a level of cultivation.

 

So anyone who wants to cultivate themselves actually would begin by letting go of any moral/ethical teachings from any spiritual teacher, give up any idea of God, etc., until they are like the Dao.

 

So if you want to cultivate yourself in a real way, don't listen or follow anyone in your heart, but empty yourself of everything. There you will find true enlightenment and understanding. Having Jesus or anyone else in your heart will only cloud you and hinder your path. True cultivators avoid such things.

 

Lao Tzu gives us great pointers as to what we should do and hold in our hearts; it is not him, nor is it Jesus or God nor anyone else.

 

So to be a true cultivator one has to be at one with the Dao or whatever word one wishes to call it. Remember we can't call this God or Jesus or even the divine, for with these names come great moral and ethical reasoning, such mind sets already have blocked true emptiness and realization and true cultivation/alchemy.

[Aetherous]

The pursuit of emptiness, of letting go of all that one had learned etc., until one is truly open. That means that in pursuing this path the teachings of Jesus, Bhudda, Mohamed etc must be completely ignored.

 

“Truly I tell you, unless you change and become like little children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven." - Jesus, Matthew 18:3 NIV

[flowing hands]

“Truly I tell you, unless you change and become like little children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven." - Jesus, Matthew 18:3 NIV

 

Sadly the wrong understanding of emptiness! Plus the fact that we do not know that it was Jesus who said this.

Edited October 21, 2013 by flowing hands

[Aetherous]

Sadly the wrong understanding of emptiness! Plus the fact that we do not know that it was Jesus who said this.

 

You need to let go of what you've learned and become more open, flowing hands.