A plea to all tao bum members.

[chenplayer]

Hi everyone I would like to start off by saying that this post is not meant to call anyone out or put anyone on the spot. This is just something I have seen in the past years being a lurker and then member of this wonderful website.

 

Ok, here I go. This is a plea to all the brother and sisters of the tao bums, we need to tone down the internal bickering. I know this is a forum and bickering and the occasional troll will pop up, but we have lost so much because we let it spread like a California wild fire. We had teachers like micheal lomax chime in with valuable information, or even some old members chiming in here it there. But, like in mister lomax's case, people complain that he charges for his teachings, or he dosen't look like a nei gong teacher and being called a fraud. People get banned, feelings get hurt, and we lose a valuable resource and poster.

 

More recently like the mo pai threads. We have people from the school chime in and give some clarification which turns into "is this story true about so and so?" Or "can you please tell us why westerners are no longer accepted?" Then bickering sets in, name calling and mud slinging and off goes more valuable information. Then we all complain why frauds or people with no experience come here and post. We invite them. We push all valuable persons away, because even if they do answer some one will log in say well that not what I heard and I was there for that and that did not happen. Then it turns out the person being asked questions is now defending himself. I mean why bother. They owe us nothing. We are seeking and when we are given something we either ask for more or just crap on the person who gave it to us.

 

Even potential teachers or people of knowledge who want to contribute can click on one link see WW3 happening and quickly change his mind. We need to work together to find the answers and if people are wrong correct them in a positive way. If they don't want correction ignore. We are shooting ourselves in the foot and slowly this place will turn into a troll heaven with little or no knowledge ever being shared. .

 

I love this place and I love you guys and girls, that why I want us just to help each other along cause we are all looking for the same thing.

 

Don't know if this will help or just create another troll thread. Hopefully it helps a little and we start treating each other like the practices we all love tell us to treat each other. With love and respect.

 

Peace and blessings.

[Apech]

Nicely said.

[Shagrath]

Kudos chenpalyer

[lienshan]

Fine words and an insinuating appearance are seldom associated with true virtue.

[C T]

Fine words and an insinuating appearance are seldom associated with true virtue.

Sounds like the goings-on in the world of horse-racing....

 

 

 

 

As for the OP...

 

...such kinds of exchanges in the martial sphere have been the norm since days of old, and i'm thinking it wont be any different anytime soon. If those who teach or come to this place to share information react sensitively to criticisms in such a manner as to cause a massive withdrawal just because of snide remarks and such, then their tenacity and magnanimity (which is a trademark of true masters btw) need to be cemented even more, in my opinion. In the world of business and politics, what sets leaders and others apart, among other traits, is the one where they have the courage to push on despite being assailed by insurmountable criticisms and challenges leveled at them every single day, either from within the organization or from rivals. One would imagine that in the martial and spiritual circles there would not be any significant difference. Wimpy teachers cry when it gets too much, and react like woosies when their actions are questioned, which is good, because i, for one, would know not to associate with such undignified individuals. And these kinds of reactive responses tend to be quite the norm where fees (handouts) are involved. Teachers who teach for free (not dependent on handouts) never seem to get bothered by such things, which is a good point to mull over. These rare individuals have their own enterprising quality which helps them to thrive hence not requiring students' money. Of course, there are those who come here and argue that free teachings are not valued... wanna bet? A real teacher with the oomph factor will never open the teachings to the masses. They are often not easily accessible, and when they are found, a student will have to undergo a number of 'tests' before they even get past the outer sanctum. Then its probably years of basic practices before the higher teachings are imparted. Nowadays, such virtuous principles are completely abandoned by modern so-called teachers who are more commercially-minded. Not saying its wrong to be this way, but as with anything, there is a price to be paid.

 

If i was interested to cultivate some form of martial arts, i would seek out 'hidden' masters - i may not get accepted, but if i am genuine, then i believe when i do find one, he or she will be genuine as well.

 

The OP mentioned something about being shot in the foot. The way i see it, those teachers who come here to recruit students or use the forum as a marketing ground are the ones who have shot themselves in the foot, and when the going got tough, they cry like sissies and threaten to leave because of being overly questioned or criticized. Imo, no loss to anyone.

 

One would imagine that Eagles are never encumbered by the crumbs which sparrows fight over their whole lives.

 

Apologies for the rant!

[manitou]

Apologies for the rant!

 

 

and a good one it was..

[JustBHappy]

I agree, up to a point.

You are 100% spot on, but there is also the other side of the coin to consider. Anyone who has been in the loop for a while knows that the internal arts, spiritual arts, and martial arts do have some outright scam artists or mis-informed "teachers" teaching dangerous or harmful practices, having inappropriate conduct with students or children and other issues.

It is our responsibility as brothers and sisters on the path to do our part to help others avoid damaging their bodies or minds and wasting precious time, energy, and money. Some people of course, will not listen and must learn the hard way. But, for our own peace of mind, and personal conduct and karma we our bound to speak out. We can never know how many people steered clear of a charlatan or harmful path but we can be sure that if we remain silent we will help nobody.

I have no idea what your talking about in regards to Master Lomax but whatever it is, I hope all involved learn from it and move on. We are lucky to have him and others share with us on this site.

[lienshan]

Sounds like the goings-on in the world of horse-racing....

 

It's actually a Confucius quote showing that such pleas haven't worked for more than 2500 years.

 

What works in the world of horse-racing is to say: who wins the next race?

[Harmonious Emptiness]

One thing I've noticed in the past was that the people who troll on the real teachers then try to make a huge fuss and scene when they get accused for trolling, even though a second before they were unjustly accusing someone else of being corrupt. For some reason, there seemed to be some fear of these people being offended and leaving even though they seemed to just come here for drama, and there's 10 more waiting to come on board. They would make a big noise and a few others enjoying the drama might come to their side, and they wouldn't get dealt with appropriately.

 

I've made some effort to assume a responsibility of helping teachers with accusations levied against them by responding to the accusations for them. Hopefully, this way they don't have to waste their valuable time defending themselves against people who have nothing but time to accuse them and keep the issue going. However, maybe we should have a team of vigilante members or something who will step in when this stuff happens, so that knowledgeable members don't have spend all their time defending themselves. The mods can't really do this because they need to stay impartial.

 

Not that there shouldn't be questions put to teachers, but when things just get outright baseless and unreasonable, it's usually pretty easy to turn the discussion around if someone is willing to step in for the teacher to keep the interactions on point.

 

edit: I'm pretty sure this has worked in the past at least for some time when an experienced person ended up with their back against the wall due to now published accusations which they need to respond to. If they had to spend all their time responding to these accusations, they surely would have felt their time was better spent elsewhere.

Edited May 5, 2013 by Harmonious Emptiness

[RiverSnake]

Whenever I see a thread that is pit for trolls i simply ignore it (literally, i put a ton of people on "Ignore Posts")....despite the fact that i am always tempted to post in them even though i know it will not help and just give the trolls more fuel to feed on. Its just like emptiness meditation....observe your thoughts but don't become entangled with them.

 

Call it the GongFu of the Taobums (). If trolls are skillful at ramping up other peoples emotions and inciting anger then as practitioners we must choose to be more "skillful" in dealing with such things.

 

My 2 cents, Peace

[Stosh]

This stage can be rough and tumble..a proving ground

Or it could be a soapbox to sing out platitudes

Best it would be for the author of a thread to guide it.

Some have learned to do that well , and they set a standard.

It isn't easy to have the self control and clarity of purpose to do so.

Others just want to drop in here and there, and make a comment or two

Sometimes about tangential issues, sometimes in outright contention.

There are always competing motivations for free expression

and control of it.

Tolerance patience equinanimity flexibility etc are all good things to cultivate.

And such a venue as it is here represents opportunity for that development.

Some 'would be' teacher who hasn't yet mastered these things in himself ,

should still be considered,, but isn't really established in credentials.

 

 

 

[xor]

Whenever I see a thread that is pit for trolls i simply ignore it (literally, i put a ton of people on "Ignore Posts")....despite the fact that i am always tempted to post in them even though i know it will not help and just give the trolls more fuel to feed on. Its just like emptiness meditation....observe your thoughts but don't become entangled with them.

 

Best to avoid trollpits if you can. The second best thing to do is go and read but staying calm. The scammers and trolls are usually pretty obvious once they can't appeal to you on emotional levels.

[chenplayer]

Thank you for all the responses! I know that making pleas and asking for every one to play nice sometimes doesn't work but it is nice to hear what other members feel and see us all on the same page. I am truly grateful for being part of this community and only want it to grow and prosper. I also agree that sometimes people need to be asked questions due to scammers and snake oil salesmen that appear, I just feel it doesn't need to go a thousand pages to due so. We can all just band together ask for a reasonable answer and if none is given abandon the thread like it was the titanic. Again my intentions where not to put any one down or accuse any one of anything. We are all human and we have the right to choose what we do and say. I hope I haven't offended any one in making this post and I hope I did not waste any ones time. Thank you for hearing me out and I wish you all a wonderful and blessed day.

[Vanir Thunder Dojo Tan]

Sounds like the goings-on in the world of horse-racing....

 

 

 

 

As for the OP...

 

...such kinds of exchanges in the martial sphere have been the norm since days of old, and i'm thinking it wont be any different anytime soon. If those who teach or come to this place to share information react sensitively to criticisms in such a manner as to cause a massive withdrawal just because of snide remarks and such, then their tenacity and magnanimity (which is a trademark of true masters btw) need to be cemented even more, in my opinion. In the world of business and politics, what sets leaders and others apart, among other traits, is the one where they have the courage to push on despite being assailed by insurmountable criticisms and challenges leveled at them every single day, either from within the organization or from rivals. One would imagine that in the martial and spiritual circles there would not be any significant difference. Wimpy teachers cry when it gets too much, and react like woosies when their actions are questioned, which is good, because i, for one, would know not to associate with such undignified individuals. And these kinds of reactive responses tend to be quite the norm where fees (handouts) are involved. Teachers who teach for free (not dependent on handouts) never seem to get bothered by such things, which is a good point to mull over. These rare individuals have their own enterprising quality which helps them to thrive hence not requiring students' money. Of course, there are those who come here and argue that free teachings are not valued... wanna bet? A real teacher with the oomph factor will never open the teachings to the masses. They are often not easily accessible, and when they are found, a student will have to undergo a number of 'tests' before they even get past the outer sanctum. Then its probably years of basic practices before the higher teachings are imparted. Nowadays, such virtuous principles are completely abandoned by modern so-called teachers who are more commercially-minded. Not saying its wrong to be this way, but as with anything, there is a price to be paid.

 

If i was interested to cultivate some form of martial arts, i would seek out 'hidden' masters - i may not get accepted, but if i am genuine, then i believe when i do find one, he or she will be genuine as well.

 

The OP mentioned something about being shot in the foot. The way i see it, those teachers who come here to recruit students or use the forum as a marketing ground are the ones who have shot themselves in the foot, and when the going got tough, they cry like sissies and threaten to leave because of being overly questioned or criticized. Imo, no loss to anyone.

 

One would imagine that Eagles are never encumbered by the crumbs which sparrows fight over their whole lives.

 

Apologies for the rant!

 

 

trademarks lmao. he who speaks.