Why are people so TERRIFIED by a decentralized economy?

[Vanir Thunder Dojo Tan]

I cannot help but notice that people demand to be correct when they say "money makes the world go 'round".

Is it truly an offense of truth and fact to assert that money is not by any means necessary, or that quality life can be achieved by freeing ourselves of the bondage that is the centralization of resources?


I've been arguing all day, it seems, with anyone and everyone who will say it. Perhaps if there were evidence that i was incorrect, rather than self-important and self-proclaimed arguments of "greater good"s this or "necessities" that, "populations" are more important than persons, "we cant live like that anymore" self perpetuated lies, and "my rights" belie any responsibilities...


What is the deal, honestly?

[Flolfolil]

the people on top know that it is about power, they don't care about the paper money at all.

[Mikeb85]

I cannot help but notice that people demand to be correct when they say "money makes the world go 'round".

 

Is it truly an offense of truth and fact to assert that money is not by any means necessary, or that quality life can be achieved by freeing ourselves of the bondage that is the centralization of resources?

 

 

I've been arguing all day, it seems, with anyone and everyone who will say it. Perhaps if there were evidence that i was incorrect, rather than self-important and self-proclaimed arguments of "greater good"s this or "necessities" that, "populations" are more important than persons, "we cant live like that anymore" self perpetuated lies, and "my rights" belie any responsibilities...

 

 

What is the deal, honestly?

 

The deal is that alot of people simply don't understand economics, the monetary system, what 'capital' actually is, etc...

 

Money isn't necessary per se, but it makes the transfer of resources easier and more convenient for the majority. It's easier to put everything into a dollar amount instead of comparing potatoes to goats to rice, etc...

[Vmarco]

I cannot help but notice that people demand to be correct when they say "money makes the world go 'round".

 

Is it truly an offense of truth and fact to assert that money is not by any means necessary, or that quality life can be achieved by freeing ourselves of the bondage that is the centralization of resources?

 

What is the deal, honestly?

 

Some suggest that money goes hand in hand with religion. Ever notice that the Star Trek paradigm proselytized neither religion or money,..they were part of a resource based economy.

 

http://hermetic.com/bey/millennium/religion.html

 

If you ponder the End of Religion seriously and deeply enough, such occurrance, by consequence, would simultaneously manifest an economy other than capitalism and need for money. Remember,...the End of Religion would not spawn atheism,...atheism is merely another religion,...a set of beliefs that no god exists. The End of Religion will manifest the birthing of Human Beingness,...and a focus on Human Beingness is incompatable with capitalism and money.

 

Compassion, gnowledge, truth, honesty, impeccableness, will be the characteristics favored in a non-religious,...that is, a beliefless society. Because religious beliefs will cease having any influence,...relating with what will never leave us, and from which we can never leave, will be the accepted prime directive.

 

Money is unnecessary in a resource based economy.

[Enishi]

_{Money in its basic essence is a medium representing numbers and accounting. Even if "money" was discarded, any society that uses energy and resources is still going to use some form of accounting to record and facilitate its activities.}

Edited May 15, 2013 by Enishi

[Vanir Thunder Dojo Tan]

very telling.

[voidisyinyang]

I asked the lady outside of the co-op today , standing over the starter plants -- she said to me she was not "the boss."

 

I said - "spoken like a true anarchist!"

 

haha.

[Mikeb85]

Some suggest that money goes hand in hand with religion. Ever notice that the Star Trek paradigm proselytized neither religion or money,..they were part of a resource based economy.

 

http://hermetic.com/bey/millennium/religion.html

 

If you ponder the End of Religion seriously and deeply enough, such occurrance, by consequence, would simultaneously manifest an economy other than capitalism and need for money. Remember,...the End of Religion would not spawn atheism,...atheism is merely another religion,...a set of beliefs that no god exists. The End of Religion will manifest the birthing of Human Beingness,...and a focus on Human Beingness is incompatable with capitalism and money.

 

Compassion, gnowledge, truth, honesty, impeccableness, will be the characteristics favored in a non-religious,...that is, a beliefless society. Because religious beliefs will cease having any influence,...relating with what will never leave us, and from which we can never leave, will be the accepted prime directive.

 

Money is unnecessary in a resource based economy.

 

Even in Star Trek there was a central leadership that allocated resources to provide for the perceived needs of society.

 

In our society money is used to represent capital, and the market allocates capital in such a way that it can produce what is in demand. Communism, capitalism, money, markets, etc..., in every case it's simply a paradigm for allocating capital (ie. labour + resources) - in every system where anything is produced, effort needs to be directed. These are simply different ways to try achieve the same thing.

 

In Star Trek all the basic needs of everyone was taken care of, but it still appeared as though there was a system where vacation time, and time for leisure activities was allocated to the population. They still had material goods, and engaged in trade with other species. While there wasn't money in the same way we think of it, they still had materials which were a 'standard' of wealth, as well as human capital (ie. labour or work-time), which they traded.

Edited May 15, 2013 by Mikeb85

[Maddie]

I asked the lady outside of the co-op today , standing over the starter plants -- she said to me she was not "the boss."

 

I said - "spoken like a true anarchist!"

 

haha.

what is it that you do?

[voidisyinyang]

what is it that you do?

 

I was a radical progressive activist but quit my job with no notice since it was a fake activist non-profit. haha.

 

I then biked for 250 miles to the Buddhist monasteries in my state but I was dumpster diving and eating bulbs of garlic along the way.

 

So then I ended up returning to my folks who were in their mid-70s as my dad had become a severe alcoholic and so I figured I would keep an eye on him.

 

So I began removing the invasive buckthorn from their 10 acres of forest and then I did permaculture gardening by composting my humanure and using the buckthorn as deer fencing and then I heat the house with the buckthorn in the wood heater.

 

So the food and heat I provide covers my expenses.

 

So then my sister moved in and had a 2nd baby and so I also babysit my two nieces.

 

Yeah so then my dad died and my mom got healed by the qigong master.

 

My secret agenda has been to suck my family back into the rainbow vortex of the qigong masters. haha.

 

So what I really do is sit in full lotus as much as possible.

 

But I had to quit my job b/c I had to eat tons of garlic to kill off the crap smell since I was flexing my pineal gland to transmit energy into people as I sat in full lotus - but the energy was dirty chi as "yin chi" energy and so it was just sublimated lower body energy without the purification to the heart necessary.

[Maddie]

I was a radical progressive activist but quit my job with no notice since it was a fake activist non-profit. haha.

 

I then biked for 250 miles to the Buddhist monasteries in my state but I was dumpster diving and eating bulbs of garlic along the way.

 

So then I ended up returning to my folks who were in their mid-70s as my dad had become a severe alcoholic and so I figured I would keep an eye on him.

 

So I began removing the invasive buckthorn from their 10 acres of forest and then I did permaculture gardening by composting my humanure and using the buckthorn as deer fencing and then I heat the house with the buckthorn in the wood heater.

 

So the food and heat I provide covers my expenses.

 

So then my sister moved in and had a 2nd baby and so I also babysit my two nieces.

 

Yeah so then my dad died and my mom got healed by the qigong master.

 

My secret agenda has been to suck my family back into the rainbow vortex of the qigong masters. haha.

 

So what I really do is sit in full lotus as much as possible.

 

But I had to quit my job b/c I had to eat tons of garlic to kill off the crap smell since I was flexing my pineal gland to transmit energy into people as I sat in full lotus - but the energy was dirty chi as "yin chi" energy and so it was just sublimated lower body energy without the purification to the heart necessary.

I'm not sure how but some day I think I'd want to interview and do a biography on you lol.

 

What was your activist group for/about?

 

What became of your Buddhist monastery adventure?

 

Is yin chi "dirty"?

[thelerner]

Lets put it this way. Under your system(?), you want to 'get' a house or car. How do you do it? What happens?

 

 

Think about it and tell me.

 

 

Going a little deeper. Who builds the house and car and how are they compensated?

Edited May 15, 2013 by thelerner

[Vanir Thunder Dojo Tan]

cur·ren·cy[kur-uhn-see, kuhr-] Show IPA

noun, plural cur·ren·cies.

1.

something that is used as a medium of exchange; money.

2.

general acceptance; prevalence; vogue.

3.

a time or period during which something is widely accepted and circulated.

4.

the fact or quality of being widely accepted and circulated from person to person.

5.

circulation, as of coin.





Why are people are scared because i refuse to accept and circulate money and fiat, but idea and truth instead?

They cant feed their families with ideas or truths, so they latch on to the accepted medium; and in pursuing their base needs, indebt themselves to centralized monopolies of services which are required in order to acquire base needs which are provided through additional services at extorted and unaffordable prices, which drive the populace to run up debts in order to acquire the conveniently advertised resources - resources which this populace are unable or unallowed to produce individually for free.

[Vanir Thunder Dojo Tan]

Lets put it this way. Under your system(?), you want to 'get' a house or car. How do you do it? What happens?

 

 

Think about it and tell me.

 

 

Going a little deeper. Who builds the house and car and how are they compensated?

 

How does a bear "get" a place to lay his head and sleep?

 

Why does a bear need a car?

 

 

While we're not bears and dont have fur coats, we CAN kill bears and use theirs. however "under "my" system" that bear had better damned well be honored and cherished before, during, and after the kill and skinning.

 

Why do we need cars? why do we need to travel long distances? Why do we need to allow our resources to be controlled by our peers?

 

 

Why do you need compensation for building your own house? isnt the house the compensation for building it?

Edited May 15, 2013 by Northern Avid Judo Ant

[voidisyinyang]

I'm not sure how but some day I think I'd want to interview and do a biography on you lol.

 

What was your activist group for/about?

 

What became of your Buddhist monastery adventure?

 

Is yin chi "dirty"?

 

The activism was multi-faceted by my focus was environmental activism. So I also protested against U.S. imperialism, genocide, etc. But then I organized some coalitions - so got the U of MN to divest from Total Oil using slave labor in Burma and then got the U of MN to join the Workers Right Consortium for independent monitoring and boycotts of heinous sweatshop apparel factories making sports clothing abroad.

 

Anyway those were two "public record" achievements that I launched and otherwise I had an op-ed column in the U of MN Daily newspaper serving 50,000 and so of course my focus was on corporate-state personhood as corruption. But my last op-ed was called "Psychic Vampires Repress the Truth" and I mentioned George Bush Sr. getting eight qigong healings at the White House by qigong master Yan Xin. haha. Among other things.

 

So the arrests were -- 1) against nuke waste storage on the Mississippi river on a Dakota Indian reservation 2) Project ELF military first strike communication system to nuclear subs in northern Wisconsin 3) Landmines and depleted uranium - largest manufacturer in the world headquartered in Minnesota 4) Against a highway destroying a sacred forest and springs at the conjunction of the Mississippi and Minnesota river - the origin of creation for the Dakota Indians 5) and 6) -- protesting genocide in Iraq in 1998.

 

Well I may have gotten arrested twice at the land mind depleted uranium place - I can't remember but yeah I was going to many protests like in D.C. in 1994 against the World Bank which was the launching of the 50 Years is Enough! Campaign that built up to the 1999 Seattle shutdown of the WTO which I also attended, dodging rubber bullets. So yeah I did Earth First! protests against corporate personhood and I was in the Earth First! newspaper as the "local contact" - so the FBI tapped my phone. haha.

 

So I had my own activist newsletter and then I did a newsletter with an activist who was then on the FBI most wanted list as being part of the SLA "terrorist" organization. I pointed out the group was started by a CIA mind control victim.

 

So when Senator Wellstone had his "accident" in the classic CIA assassination plane crash then things got weird. The man who wrote a book on it also organized a JFK assassination conference but the professors attending disowned him for being fake and his "scholarly" books were all published by the Moonies and he claimed he didn't realize this and he was military and his collaborator bragged about having the Nazi SS Major Werner von Braun as his personal mentor. I pointed this out in my "last" column for the U of MN Daily newspaper and the professor emailed me threatening me that I would "never be published again." haha.

 

So yeah things got conspiratorial and strange - like my activist friends thought I was too fanatical and then...whatever I took the part-time job at the fake environmental nonprofit as my "retirement" and so I worked their 10 years but I dumpster dived for food and sat in full lotus the whole time and I made less than 10 K a year. So then I biked year round and read one scholarly book a day and then did pineal gland flexing to heal people.

 

Yep it was fun.

 

So my friend set up a Buddhist monastery and he said I could become a monk but when I got there the other monk was a perv who sucked off my energy! I left in the middle of the second night after my friend told me sitting in full lotus and fasting was not Buddhism. haha. He told me to read his books - he is from Burma - and so then I found one of the books saying "achivement of cessation" - the first level of samadhi is after a week long fast.

 

Anyway I left in the middle of the night by bicycle and then dumpster dived my way through the freezing rain to the other Buddhist monasteries set up by other immigrants - Cambodian and I was near the Laotian one but I skipped it.

 

When I was at the Cambodian one then my Burmese friend called me as I sat in front of the Cambodian monk wondering what to do with me. haha. I smelled of garlic strongly among other things like probably crap.

 

Oh yeah so the "dirty chi" is just when the yin chi is not purified going down the front of the body - so I would just sublimate it and then flex my pineal gland to turn it into chi energy - after sublimating the yin jing energy -- so it was yang jing as yin chi - but through the pineal gland mixed with some biophoton shen energy.

 

So that's how I healed people for five years for free - my coworkers used to ask me to charge them up as I sat in full lotus at work. I had this female worker stalking me and I helped her get promoted up twice. Finally I had to quit since they downsized my whole department to replace me with a supercomputer speed dialer and then to cut down on the staff. Yeah so first they made me sign a pre-typed statement that I had been "disloyal." haha.

[thelerner]

I don't think anyone's scared about what your thoughts on currency. It doesn't really matter, but it makes you look young and idealistic. Which is not necessarily bad but when you interface with the 'real' world, you'll need cur·ren·cy [kur-uhn-see, kuhr-] noun, plural cur·ren·cies 1. something that is used as a medium of exchange; money.

 

You can complain about it, philosophize about it, assume your thoughts are scaring other people, but the simple truth is, you'll need it, unless you head to a monastery or commune.

 

 

Cool, live the bear life, just don't complain about it.

Also "Why do you need compensation for building your own house? isnt the house the compensation for building it?" Unless its a simple hovel, you're gonna need lots of supplies and hardware.

 

Are you anywhere close to your ideal of living? Making your own clothes, growing your own food, knowledgeable enough to build a house out of scratch. Or are you talking theoretically.

Edited May 15, 2013 by thelerner

[de_paradise]

In a decentralized system, some greedy individuals seek to become monopolists, eventually attain it, and protect their monopolies with force. Whether the system is centralized or de-centralized, as long as their are greedy individuals who want more than a fair, reasonable share, we will end up with something like aristocracy dominated, or 1% dominated economy. Therefore, it is morals/ethics/spiritual evolution that is the lynchpin, not the economic system.

Edited May 15, 2013 by de_paradise

[Vanir Thunder Dojo Tan]

"we" are "supposed" to just "let" it happen that way? Say something reasonable.

[thelerner]

"we" are "supposed" to just "let" it happen that way? Say something reasonable.

Yup, like gravity. IMO a good Taoist lives in harmony with the world around him. Whether its in a mountain cave or the city. If they/you don't like life where you are, go somewhere else. Or if you have a strategy for getting people to stop using currency then let us know what it is. As per usual you could mail the filthy lucre to me.

 

By the way I like the money system, barter is hugely inefficient. Striving for a better life man will specialize and one way or another currency will arise.

 

I live in a currencyless non commercial society a week out of the year. Its great, but its only possible because its for a limited time and driven by the wealth that people have collected working. Communes tend not to last for more then one or two generations. In Illinois, where I live, there were many attempts to build a Utopian towns, they didn't work. Hard core Kibbutzs that were bastions of pure communism either broke up or had to reform.

 

I think history and mankind's make up is against you, unless you go monastery, commune or primitive tribe. Which you can do, but probably won't.

[Maddie]

The activism was multi-faceted by my focus was environmental activism. So I also protested against U.S. imperialism, genocide, etc. But then I organized some coalitions - so got the U of MN to divest from Total Oil using slave labor in Burma and then got the U of MN to join the Workers Right Consortium for independent monitoring and boycotts of heinous sweatshop apparel factories making sports clothing abroad.

 

Anyway those were two "public record" achievements that I launched and otherwise I had an op-ed column in the U of MN Daily newspaper serving 50,000 and so of course my focus was on corporate-state personhood as corruption. But my last op-ed was called "Psychic Vampires Repress the Truth" and I mentioned George Bush Sr. getting eight qigong healings at the White House by qigong master Yan Xin. haha. Among other things.

 

So the arrests were -- 1) against nuke waste storage on the Mississippi river on a Dakota Indian reservation 2) Project ELF military first strike communication system to nuclear subs in northern Wisconsin 3) Landmines and depleted uranium - largest manufacturer in the world headquartered in Minnesota 4) Against a highway destroying a sacred forest and springs at the conjunction of the Mississippi and Minnesota river - the origin of creation for the Dakota Indians 5) and 6) -- protesting genocide in Iraq in 1998.

 

Well I may have gotten arrested twice at the land mind depleted uranium place - I can't remember but yeah I was going to many protests like in D.C. in 1994 against the World Bank which was the launching of the 50 Years is Enough! Campaign that built up to the 1999 Seattle shutdown of the WTO which I also attended, dodging rubber bullets. So yeah I did Earth First! protests against corporate personhood and I was in the Earth First! newspaper as the "local contact" - so the FBI tapped my phone. haha.

 

So I had my own activist newsletter and then I did a newsletter with an activist who was then on the FBI most wanted list as being part of the SLA "terrorist" organization. I pointed out the group was started by a CIA mind control victim.

 

So when Senator Wellstone had his "accident" in the classic CIA assassination plane crash then things got weird. The man who wrote a book on it also organized a JFK assassination conference but the professors attending disowned him for being fake and his "scholarly" books were all published by the Moonies and he claimed he didn't realize this and he was military and his collaborator bragged about having the Nazi SS Major Werner von Braun as his personal mentor. I pointed this out in my "last" column for the U of MN Daily newspaper and the professor emailed me threatening me that I would "never be published again." haha.

 

So yeah things got conspiratorial and strange - like my activist friends thought I was too fanatical and then...whatever I took the part-time job at the fake environmental nonprofit as my "retirement" and so I worked their 10 years but I dumpster dived for food and sat in full lotus the whole time and I made less than 10 K a year. So then I biked year round and read one scholarly book a day and then did pineal gland flexing to heal people.

 

Yep it was fun.

 

So my friend set up a Buddhist monastery and he said I could become a monk but when I got there the other monk was a perv who sucked off my energy! I left in the middle of the second night after my friend told me sitting in full lotus and fasting was not Buddhism. haha. He told me to read his books - he is from Burma - and so then I found one of the books saying "achivement of cessation" - the first level of samadhi is after a week long fast.

 

Anyway I left in the middle of the night by bicycle and then dumpster dived my way through the freezing rain to the other Buddhist monasteries set up by other immigrants - Cambodian and I was near the Laotian one but I skipped it.

 

When I was at the Cambodian one then my Burmese friend called me as I sat in front of the Cambodian monk wondering what to do with me. haha. I smelled of garlic strongly among other things like probably crap.

 

Oh yeah so the "dirty chi" is just when the yin chi is not purified going down the front of the body - so I would just sublimate it and then flex my pineal gland to turn it into chi energy - after sublimating the yin jing energy -- so it was yang jing as yin chi - but through the pineal gland mixed with some biophoton shen energy.

 

So that's how I healed people for five years for free - my coworkers used to ask me to charge them up as I sat in full lotus at work. I had this female worker stalking me and I helped her get promoted up twice. Finally I had to quit since they downsized my whole department to replace me with a supercomputer speed dialer and then to cut down on the staff. Yeah so first they made me sign a pre-typed statement that I had been "disloyal." haha.

 

That's pretty cool. Yea I used to be in the military, joined right out of high school, all gung-ho and patriotic n such, even considered making it a career. Then at my first unit I became friends with some nation of Islam guys who were all cynical and skeptical. At first they didn't like having "whitey" in their squad, but I guess cause I would actually listen to them and ask questions with an open mind they warmed up to me lol.

 

Anyways some of them had been veterans of the first gulf war and really opened my eyes to the agendas of the government and made me really feel like a pawn in a large cooperate game. So at the end of my contract I did not re-enlist but rather went to a seminary after I decided to go all spiritual and screw the world lol. So I went through the seminary program but at the end wound up not agreeing with that particular church so did not go into the ministry.

 

Then I wound up in Alaska and went to the University up there and eventually majored in history. Well really studying history (not the version of history the church taught me) just finally wound up ruining Christianity for me all together lol. And now here I am studying TCM.

[de_paradise]

The current 1% domination was not supposed to happen in our capitalist system. People had hopes: there was the middle class, political checks and balances, industries were supposed to see how going green and giving to the community would be win-win. International free trade was supposed to be win-win (not just pitting countries and workers in downward wage pressure). When I went through university this was textbook stuff. This was not so long ago. Most people don't understand how things have gong wrong. Mostly they are arguing about possible systems, when the real change is in the meme. Memes are like thought viruses that propagate when the society is ready. As 1/7000000000 of humanity, I can participate on thought and energy level. I have strong energy.

[Mikeb85]

The current 1% domination was not supposed to happen in our capitalist system. People had hopes: there was the middle class, political checks and balances, industries were supposed to see how going green and giving to the community would be win-win. International free trade was supposed to be win-win (not just pitting countries and workers in downward wage pressure). When I went through university this was textbook stuff. This was not so long ago. Most people don't understand how things have gong wrong. Mostly they are arguing about possible systems, when the real change is in the meme. Memes are like thought viruses that propagate when the society is ready. As 1/7000000000 of humanity, I can participate on thought and energy level. I have strong energy.

 

Part of the problem is that most people don't participate in the economy as anything other than labour.

 

When you invest money, then the value of the business you create belongs to you. When you work as an employee, you create value for the business owner.

 

If more people were willing to take risks, they'd be creating value for themselves, not others. The 1% are those who have taken that risk time and time again (and won)...

[Tung]

 

How does a bear "get" a place to lay his head and sleep?

 

Why does a bear need a car?

 

 

ok, I just have to post this now.

 

[Vmarco]

Even in Star Trek there was a central leadership that allocated resources to provide for the perceived needs of society.

 

In our society money is used to represent capital, and the market allocates capital in such a way that it can produce what is in demand. Communism, capitalism, money, markets, etc..., in every case it's simply a paradigm for allocating capital (ie. labour + resources) - in every system where anything is produced, effort needs to be directed. These are simply different ways to try achieve the same thing.

 

Yes,...perhaps Star Trek wasn't the best analogy,...but there are not many analogies to draw from that bring attention to the unspiritualness of the monetary system. I relalled Kirk and Spock having pizza and a beer, and saying they don't have money anymore.

 

Few are aware of Resource Based Economics,...and many are against it, not because it wouldn't work better,...but because of fear of change.

 

For those seriously interested in the subject, I'd suggest the following youtube, from minutes 11:00 - 17:43

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DCWNgSa7GvA&feature=related

 

"The biggest crux to the evolution of humanity is breaking through your own indoctrination. It is very, very difficult to overcome emotional elements that have become so engrained in you, that you have an immediate reaction, an immediate suffering and pain, if something interfers with [your idea of the status quo]. It's a very, very complex problem. We have to learn how to identify and break our own indoctrination if we expect to move forward at all as a civilization" PJ Merola

[Vmarco]

 

Why do we need cars? why do we need to travel long distances? Why do we need to allow our resources to be controlled by our peers?

 

 

 

 

The following is likely a fictional story,...however, the premise is rather profound.

 

In the 1980s, Dru was living in rural British Columbia, where he was frequently visited by two spirit guides. One day, these two guides appeared and asked whether he would like to take a ride in a spaceship, which was to be cruising by the following day. Dru excitedly agreed, and the next day, right on schedule, a spaceship appeared. A hatchway opened, and once he was aboard, it zoomed off beyond our atmosphere. During the day, Dru was shown around and instructed about how to pilot the technologically advanced craft.

 

He described the cockpit as having a seamless panel of various-sized nodules. By touching them, he could maneuver the craft. In the evening, he was brought home, where his spirit guides were waiting to hear of his adventures. In an invigorated voice, Dru told them of his wonderful day and how powerfully cool the spacecraft had been, yet he noticed the guides did not respond to his elation, so he paused, a bit confused. Then, one of the Guides, pointing to an electric heater stored on the porch, said, “Do you see that? Every time you turn it on, you are giving your power away.” Dru understood instantly what they meant. The extraterrestrials’ technology was more a barrier to spirituality and enlightenment than a path towards any real power.

 

Who's in Control?

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-lwPCQFw1o