Why are people so TERRIFIED by a decentralized economy?

[Vanir Thunder Dojo Tan]

Sorry sort of academically interested in your plan, didn't mean to sound snotty, so good luck ( not being sarcastic).

 

Can you survive in the middle of nowhere? It does take skills, unless you're going to a tropical island where fish jump out the sea and fruit falls into your lap for you. I have idea to get more away from society to get away from society, not to bring my own civilization to take care of me.

 

Do you have descendants? If you did would your plan change?

 

 

i barely even have what qualifies as ascendants.

 

I didnt really take it as snotty, because i knew it was not your intent, but it is frustrating none the less to allow you (anybody) to take a non-active "interest" in my pursuits. and the acedemy be damned

 

My survival is null point. i dont want to survive for no reason other than to exist. If my existence was ever a choice, things would be different, but i sincerely doubt anyone or anything has a pre-existing choice behind their own conception.

 

Now, as far as your interest in the matter of what im going to do, i do not honestly know. the only few things i do know are what isnt working, what isnt benefiting me, and where i dont want to be.

 

What i do know is that i('ll) have absolutely no one to look to for support, guidance, assistance, relief, or companionship in my pursuits... which is the only reason i havent just picked up and left every day of my life until now. and its the only thing stopping me from leaving this morning, last night, right now, in 5 minutes, in 5 hours.

 

Im not willing to be alone.

 

Much as i dispise the lifeways of my ignorant peers, much as i cannot and will not tolorate the socioeconomic hierarchy, much as i lack any respect or reputation as a human being since i oppose "the norm", much as i down right hate the way people treat me...

 

 

I do not trust myself to function alone. i know what i do when im alone. i know who i am when im alone. i dont like me when im alone, and i want my "alone-self" to cease. forever.

Edited May 15, 2013 by Northern Avid Judo Ant

[skydog]

didnt you say you liked gardening?

 

I spent some time at permaculture/sustainable living kind of places...WOOF, etc etc

 

I get the feeling you would enjoy it there many like minded people there

 

plus you can learn more about gardening and perhaps build a skill incase you are ever needing to work etc (just for security)

 

(btw) this is not disagreeing with anything youve written but more random short term-ish ideas

[zanshin]

I'm academically interested in people's plans to get away from society because that's what I plan to do eventually.

 

My dilemma right now is I'm raising kids and I'm divorced so would be legal crap to deal with if I moved away and went too nontraditional. Beyond that simply understanding a right world to raise kids in is a dilemma, mostly because there isn't one. I don't want to preclude their options to go to college and have traditional lives and jobs and families, on the other hand if they want to go live on a fishing boat and feel happy (that's what I can see my older son doing) this would be fine with me too.

 

I'm working on a plan to move out though, right now we are looking for land for weekend getaway, permanent camp site type spot and later to move to. I'm lucky not to be completely alone, my significant other might be my soul mate as far as wanting to be out in nature with a calm drama free life. He might even make a better hermit that I, we actually both love our alone time, so it is nice to have someone who understands that since most people don't. If either or both of my sons want to come live in a compound with us, that would be awesome. There are a few others who might be welcome to come visit or stay, really I have to decide how isolated I want to be, definitely do not want to hear or see any neighbors from my property and being in a commune even with like minded people would feel like taking society with me.

 

Gardening and permaculture is a good idea, maybe camping or backpacking groups to get away from society but still be with other people. Would build your skill set too. Something I should work on too. I can do those things, but have been trying to overcome my fear of power tools. I can use them just really don't like them, they're noisy and make me feel all shaky and there is dust. Maybe if I go way off grid will be excuse not to use them.

 

Alone in the woods, I think is different than at home alone and even I don't like going to restaurants and festivals alone. Alone in the woods to me is glorious.

[Vanir Thunder Dojo Tan]

i'd cherish alone time if i had a significant other to share it with... that has been the permanent bane of my existence, having someone to share my life with.

No one.



Sure, i went for a nice long walk and blew some steam today and damn near didnt come back, but i promised an ex that i'd get on the cam with her tonight, and i hate to go against my word. funny thing is i turned back after calming down... long before i realized i forgot my word! boy am i glad i remembered, i coulda been out there walking as far as woodburn before i had turned around! and THEN it would have been too late!


But tomorrow... is looking like... i have no choice but to leave. Everything is way too up my ass in my time allotment to have any willpower to remain here. but hte lack of a partner or a destination stagnates the journey.


I tried craigslist once stupid.


i dont know how to meet people and i really hate being in social situations where i DO meet new people... kind of a contradiction of terms to want to have companionship but not being willing to meet someone worthy of my affection... hah! i'm sure it's a social phobia of some sort, but when i try to "address" it, i jsut feel like hurting people and eating their necks out raw. im pretty disgusting and violent in my own mind, it's a wonder im not institutionalized... but god forbid, someone tries to touch me... D:< woman hath no fury like a Free Human apprehended... thats all i will say about that...



i have trust issues. i dont trust anyone that hasnt earned my trust first, and most of them have subsequently betrayed it.

Im tired of being forgiving. i have nothing. and im damn near ready to start taking it by force if need be, fuck the innocence and the free will, im not willing to act like im invalid any more!

[de_paradise]

The situation works in reverse too. In the city I live in, you can see many former McDonald's and Pizza Hut restaurants that are now independently owned, unique restaurants.

 

Wal-Mart is no doubt big, but they're not steam rolling mom and pop establishments - they're just steam rolling less efficient big-box stores, and will one day get replaced themselves... Mom and pop establishments are thriving here, especially in immigrant communities - you go to an 'immigrant neighborhood' up here and you won't find any franchises or big box stores - just alot of entrepreneurs.

 

Right now is a great time to be an entrepreneur, especially in Canada where our economy is finally faltering a bit - when prices are low, stores going out of business, etc..., is the best time to invest and start a business.

 

Its great that you feel positive about entrepreneurism in Canada, its psychologically healthier to have a naive goldilocks outlook than be frustrated and hating the system. I would agree that what you are describing is a viable social equalibrium, and just leave it at that.

 

One step away from acceptance is rejection, and one more step beyond that is finding a new solution. Its whats happening in our minds thats important. Permaculture people are creatively finding methods. What is usually ignored, not understood or just assumed is how morality can change from instituted greed and selfishness. These are things we face daily as cultivators, simply because enlightenment is not possible if ego is constantly expressing itself in greed and selfishness.

[Vmarco]

knowledge is power.

 

 

 

Is "knowledge" really power? Suppose you had perfect knowledge of the diaboloical meme of Christianity or Islam,...such knowledge would surely have you killed if used.

 

Suppose you had knowledge how water with aluminum-gallium produces instant hydrogen,...will that give you any power in Oil Company controlled Washington?

 

Knowledge among the worldly powerful may facilitate their power games,...but ultimately, does knowledge enable any real power?

 

The greatest genius of the 20th century, a fellow with a photographic memory, could speak 8 languages, and had over 300 relevant patents,... invented the radio, xray machines, AC electrics, induction motors, Utilization of Radiant Energy, bladeless turbine, VTOL aircraft, experimented with wireless electricity, radio controlled boats, electric railway system, robotics, and hundreds of other things we use every day,...died pennyless and powerless,...not even winning the Nobel Prize,

Edited May 16, 2013 by Vmarco

[Vanir Thunder Dojo Tan]

i was being satirical with that statement. the one following had heart in it.

But your argument lacks something genuine in it... im not really sure, im kind of spent right now, but it seems like you are saying that Tessla was wrong somehow?


"Knowledge is power" is a statement that i have only come to use and understand as meaning "you gotta learn HOW to before you CAN do."

As babies, we're allowed to make mistakes and fall over, learning to walk.

As adults, failure is inexcusable, and can even result in various forms of enforced punishments such as, but not limited to imprisonment and corporal punishment.

Seriously, if i had the knowledge of where to find what im looking for, i'd have the power to embark on that journey.

Edited May 16, 2013 by Northern Avid Judo Ant

[Mikeb85]

Its great that you feel positive about entrepreneurism in Canada, its psychologically healthier to have a naive goldilocks outlook than be frustrated and hating the system. I would agree that what you are describing is a viable social equalibrium, and just leave it at that.

 

One step away from acceptance is rejection, and one more step beyond that is finding a new solution. Its whats happening in our minds thats important. Permaculture people are creatively finding methods. What is usually ignored, not understood or just assumed is how morality can change from instituted greed and selfishness. These are things we face daily as cultivators, simply because enlightenment is not possible if ego is constantly expressing itself in greed and selfishness.

 

Maybe I have a more positive outlook because I actually make money from the stock market (and trading currencies). Or maybe it's because I have many family and friends who are entrepreneurs, or maybe it's because my wife comes from a poor, violent 3rd world country and I've seen first hand (and heard her accounts) of what real oppression and corruption are.

 

Or maybe it's because I've lived with nothing, meditated every day, and learned to be happy no matter my circumstances. If it weren't for the prophetic words of a monk, and meeting my wife, odds are I'd be a hermit monk living in a hermitage on the west coast...

 

The fact is, there's alot of opportunity out there, not just to make a living or a profit but to make a difference. Money and capitalism aren't the problem, corruption is. Systemic corruption in the US, Canada and Europe (where certain corporations gain monopolies through government tariffs, rules and regulations), and more blatant corruption and crime in the 3rd world are what hurts the system.

 

Whining about the monetary system isn't a solution. Neither is idealizing a 'resource based economy' - we used to have one, thousands of years ago. Eventually, in every society, a standard measure of value became necessary. Capitalism wasn't dreamed up by the Illuminati looking to oppress the people, it was the natural result of traders, buying and selling goods in ancient Mesopotamia, on the the Silk road, in the Roman empire, etc...

Edited May 16, 2013 by Mikeb85

[zanshin]

I've noticed same as Mike about entrepreneurship. There was a strip where all the old family businesses closed up and for a while it was sort of desolate and sad. But now, we have a café and a coffee shop, couple niche shops, there is a farm market and Amish food shop where a cowboy bar used to be. I think the store fronts weren't big and fancy enough to bring in chains so people got in for cheap and seem to be doing well there.

[de_paradise]

Small business participation in GDP is in terminal decline as a long term trend, despite the rented facades. The other biggy: income distribution, where the small pool of rich are getting richer. These are indisputable facts. No one's ego, self worth, social stutus, or personal anecdotal evidence is on the line here. Its nice to be optimistic, its nice to be able to fit in the economy either way. However the OP is suggesting that we can change for the better. This becomes a spiritual topic when we start investigating humanity's connection to the earth, and our own meaning of life. My own belief is that we can be transmitters of a new paradigm if we connect with our higher selves and receive the information, make sense of it and apply it in our lives.

[Vanir Thunder Dojo Tan]

Maybe I have a more positive outlook because I actually make money from the stock market (and trading currencies). Or maybe it's because I have many family and friends who are entrepreneurs, or maybe it's because my wife comes from a poor, violent 3rd world country and I've seen first hand (and heard her accounts) of what real oppression and corruption are.

 

Or maybe it's because I've lived with nothing, meditated every day, and learned to be happy no matter my circumstances. If it weren't for the prophetic words of a monk, and meeting my wife, odds are I'd be a hermit monk living in a hermitage on the west coast...

 

The fact is, there's alot of opportunity out there, not just to make a living or a profit but to make a difference. Money and capitalism aren't the problem, corruption is. Systemic corruption in the US, Canada and Europe (where certain corporations gain monopolies through government tariffs, rules and regulations), and more blatant corruption and crime in the 3rd world are what hurts the system.

 

Whining about the monetary system isn't a solution. Neither is idealizing a 'resource based economy' - we used to have one, thousands of years ago. Eventually, in every society, a standard measure of value became necessary. Capitalism wasn't dreamed up by the Illuminati looking to oppress the people, it was the natural result of traders, buying and selling goods in ancient Mesopotamia, on the the Silk road, in the Roman empire, etc...

 

 

No offense, none what so ever, but get the hell off my planet. you and everyone who thinks like you.

 

LEAVE. you are not welcome on EARTH, where NATURE is the ONLY authority. you presume to weild authority over truth but you are A LIE.

 

 

Our history is damnable at best. let us start anew and prosper, instead of... THIS. what is this, i dont even... i cannot comprehend your level of ignorance, to assert that "this is the only correct way of life"!!! HOW DARE YOU?!

[Vmarco]

i was being satirical with that statement. the one following had heart in it.

 

But your argument lacks something genuine in it... im not really sure, im kind of spent right now, but it seems like you are saying that Tessla was wrong somehow?

 

 

 

No,...I was suggesting that not all knowledge manifests as worldly power.

 

Nikola Tesla, the fellow who invented the electric motor, fluorescent lighting, devices for x-rays, ionized gases, and charged particle beams, etc, etc. called Walter Russell the Leonardo DaVinci of the 20th century. Even Tesla was blown away by Russell's works, although he added that it may be a thousand years before people will understand them.

 

So much genuis obscured, hidden, threatened, and disgraced. Genuises like, Nikola Tesla, Viktor Schauberger, Edward Leedskalnin, Thomas Moray, Jerry Woodall, etc., marginalized and suppressed. Even Einstein was ridiculed until Max Planck said something, whereas the groupthink looked Einstein's theories.

 

Many a person have wasted their lives seeking knowledge,...desiring knowledge,...wanting the power that they were told knowledge would manifest.

 

Even the phrase "know thyself" is BS. The term comes from Gnothi Seauton,...to Gnow Thyself,...which cannot occur through knowledge,...only gnowledge.

Edited May 16, 2013 by Vmarco

[Vanir Thunder Dojo Tan]

i know knowledge is not ALL power, but much power cannot be derived without the knowledge of how.

Gnowing is intrinsic; nothing is necessary, human activity is unnecessary.
Knowing is learned; everything is necessary, humans need to constantly be busy.


I'm just caught in a web and cant see how to break free.

[Mikeb85]

 

 

No offense, none what so ever, but get the hell off my planet. you and everyone who thinks like you.

 

LEAVE. you are not welcome on EARTH, where NATURE is the ONLY authority. you presume to weild authority over truth but you are A LIE.

 

 

Our history is damnable at best. let us start anew and prosper, instead of... THIS. what is this, i dont even... i cannot comprehend your level of ignorance, to assert that "this is the only correct way of life"!!! HOW DARE YOU?!

 

At what point did I say that there is any 'correct' way of life?

 

You're right, nature (or rather, the universe, Tao, God, whatever analogy you want to use for the underlying essence of reality) is the only authority. Part of this authority and reality is CHANGE. Governments and corporations rise and fall, civilizations rise and fall, people are born and die, etc... The concept of the free market is to let people trade with as little intervention as possible, so the market merely reflects our human nature, the changing nature of our society, and has no inherent mind of its own...

 

You don't seem too interested in a spiritual way of life, from the tone of your posts you're more interested in some sort of pseudo-anarchist slash and burn mentality, where you're dissatisfied with your lot in life so you want to bend everyone else to your militant way of thinking (the comment you made about biting a cop in the face is quite telling).

[Mikeb85]

 

I'm just caught in a web and cant see how to break free.

 

Both Buddhism and Taoism provide the answer. Non-attachment, non-action, non-intention are a good start from a Taoist perspective. The less we are attached to material goods, to images we make of ourselves (ie. ego), to ideals, etc..., the more we can learn to truly live.

 

Buddhism offers a more structured path, in which there are 10 fetters we much eliminate to achieve happiness and eventually, liberation: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fetter_(Buddhism)

[Vanir Thunder Dojo Tan]

useless.



what good is it to not be bound to this world when everyone else still is? What good is it to unbind yourself to this world and live only to die?

What good is it to have non-attachment and even breathe? there's no point to draw breath if you are not attached to life. i might as well simply cease.



This is what i will refer to as a bad solution.

Edited May 16, 2013 by Northern Avid Judo Ant

[Mikeb85]

useless.

 

 

 

what good is it to not be bound to this world when everyone else still is? What good is it to unbind yourself to this world and live only to die?

 

What good is it to have non-attachment and even breathe? there's no point to draw breath if you are not attached to life. i might as well simply cease.

 

 

 

This is what i will refer to as a bad solution.

 

Maybe if you experienced these things you'd understand why it isn't useless. An open mind is a great asset.

[Vanir Thunder Dojo Tan]

what good comes of it? i just exist for nothing, with nothing, and no one. i might as well be dead in that case.



I've experienced it. it is useful for personal cultivation.

It is useless when dealing with global corruption and politics. unless the corrupt and political were the ones using it.


i need it, you need it, everyone needs emptiness and freedom. But if i use and apply it.... i still have nothing.

[Mikeb85]

what good comes of it? i just exist for nothing, with nothing, and no one. i might as well be dead in that case.

 

 

 

I've experienced it. it is useful for personal cultivation.

 

It is useless when dealing with global corruption and politics. unless the corrupt and political were the ones using it.

 

 

i need it, you need it, everyone needs emptiness and freedom. But if i use and apply it.... i still have nothing.

 

What do you need that you don't have?

[Vanir Thunder Dojo Tan]

guidance, either from or to a genuine down to earth tribe, clan, community, or family.

I am an orphan of sorts, in a sense. i have nothing.

[thelerner]

guidance, either from or to a genuine down to earth tribe, clan, community, or family.

 

I am an orphan of sorts, in a sense. i have nothing.

This probably won't do any good, but I'll throw it out anyway. Some of your statements are about hurting the innocent, doing violence to others and yourself. That is bad, its a call for help. You need a professional to talk to. Not anonymous people on the internet to argue with.

 

Get away from statements like 'I am the spirit of truth' and find a professional you can talk to. Focus on your life not on others or the world's dietary principles, on yourself. You don't need to change your beliefs, but you need focus. Where you are and where you want to go. What are your strengths and resources.

 

I cannot stress this enough. A good social worker won't improve things instantly, but can change the arc of your life, heading you in a better direction. Think about it. Research it a bit, there are free or cheap programs out there.

 

At some point in our lives most of us have needed to talk things out and get clarity. I certainly have. The right professional can make a world of difference because what we think of as 'my unique problem' is often not so unique, matter of fact it's damn common, just a different degree and flavor.

 

Find help. Once you get focus and direction you'll be great.

 

Yours

Michael

[Vanir Thunder Dojo Tan]

i am deaf to the misguidance of professionalism. that's laughable advice, no offense. to walk my talk i'd have to learn things i dont know what i need to learn, lost rituals and forgotten lifeways, a spiritual wound is not the realm of "professional help".

[Vmarco]

guidance, either from or to a genuine down to earth tribe, clan, community, or family.

 

I am an orphan of sorts, in a sense. i have nothing.

 

What a fortunate place to be,...those with "something" seldom if ever become self actualized, let alone transcend.

 

Of course,...for someone with nothing, your questions appear to about getting deeper into the dream,...not waking up from it.

 

Questions like:

 

 

what good is it to not be bound to this world when everyone else still is? What good is it to unbind yourself to this world and live only to die?

 

What good is it to have non-attachment and even breathe? there's no point to draw breath if you are not attached to life. i might as well simply cease.

 

 

 

These are not the questions of someone wishing to awake in anyway.

 

What are you seeking exactly? If your desire is for phenomenal success, why hang out on a Taoist forum? If you want to realize truth,...you need diffrent questions,...wouldn't you say?.

 

 

The above youtube should give you an idea as to whether you are a serious seeker, or not. If not, why spend even another minutes on this forum? Learn how to be a day trader, be a landlord, get out and sell something,...watch CNBC throughout the day,...go dumpster diving, especially after estate sales, and sell the stuff as unique items on craigslist,...steal out-of-state front licence plates and sell them them on e-bay,...collect urine from pregnant women and sell it as a hair growth tonic,...go out into the woods and be an exotic mushroom supplier,...collect herbs and make herbal cigarettes,.... trap squirrels, dye them purple, and get a government grant to study them.

 

The key is to burn with passion, 24/7.

[Vanir Thunder Dojo Tan]

If you want to realize truth,...you need diffrent questions,...wouldn't you say?.

 

 

The above youtube should give you an idea as to whether you are a serious seeker, or not. If not, why spend even another minutes on this forum? Learn how to be a day trader, be a landlord, get out and sell something,...watch CNBC throughout the day,...go dumpster diving, especially after estate sales, and sell the stuff as unique items on craigslist,...steal out-of-state front licence plates and sell them them on e-bay,...collect urine from pregnant women and sell it as a hair growth tonic,...go out into the woods and be an exotic mushroom supplier,...collect herbs and make herbal cigarettes,.... trap squirrels, dye them purple, and get a government grant to study them.

 

The key is to burn with passion, 24/7.

 

 

How do i know what to ask?

 

 

The video had terrible captions and i couldnt make out what was being said except for what captions showed up correctly. i dont know how many did, if they did. but if it said europe is clinging to our lives and installing false spirituality, i already knew that.

 

If not, then maybe im delusional too.

Edited May 17, 2013 by Northern Avid Judo Ant

[Vmarco]

 

 

How do i know what to ask?

 

 

The video had terrible captions and i couldnt make out what was being said except for what captions showed up correctly. i dont know how many did, if they did. but if it said europe is clinging to our lives and installing false spirituality, i already knew that.

 

If not, then maybe im delusional too.

 

You viewed the Youtube below, and responded as above? Then I'd suggest you focus on the last part of post #73