The Soul Vs Immortal

[Vanir Thunder Dojo Tan]

[Seth Ananda]

In many Ancestor centred cultures, hungry or angry ghosts are seen as beings who were not honoured or elevated by their children or who did not receive the appropriate rites, and so did not join the ancestor line...

 

Ancestor cults felt that we have a responsibility to our dead, and some have suggested that we 'add' something to them that they may have lost when they went through the division... Allowing them deeper intelligence and rationality than many ghosts normally exhibit, such as the confusion many ghosts display... their spirit has departed.

 

Spirit of course being cognitive and rational awareness.

 

Soul being memory and feeling based awareness, or dream logic.

Edited May 17, 2013 by Seth Ananda

[Vanir Thunder Dojo Tan]

america hurts...

[Formless Tao]

Its tricky because in words, soul and spirit were the old duality making up who we are, untill the church decreed that they were really the same thing. So now when some people say soul, they are referring to spirit, or to the divine spark, or to soul in an old school context.When they say spirit, they are usually referring to the divine spark not just aware cognizance... In western alchemy, the spirit is like the elements of fire and air. It wants to lift off and float away. It is cognitive and momentarily aware, but only really 'half' a person. It is the part of us that reincarnates over and over again, with no memory of who it was before... The soul on the other hand was like the elements of earth and water. It's heavy, and can get bogged down with all those feelings and memories... You see remnants of this understanding in expressions like "that music {or person} has Soul!" ~ ie Feeling. The soul is most 'visable' through the body and viscera. The state of a persons soul is generally discernible by looking at their body. For instance a lack of confidence would have specific postural indicators, with out mentioning any more subtle reading techniques... The spirit on the other hand is comfortable staying up in the head, away from the nasty or heavy soul feelings, and the division can be seen readily in many people, between their head and the rest of their body. But who can blame the spirit? It hates suffering and loves pleasure. this is {or part of} the alchemical inner work. To heal the negative emotions to make the soul more comfortable for the spirit. To teach the spirit not to wander away into fantasy and distraction {being off in ones head} away from the body and the feelings of the soul. To practice morality which protects the soul from further negative emotions, and to cultivate virtue energies which feel amazing and thus attract the spirit. Most of the transformations of soul cant be done without spirit being present. Eventually the soul and spirit want to live with each other. This is when the first marriage or fusion can occur. this also means that separation wont happen after death, as the spirit is no longer trying to escape the soul. That means one has become very embodied, and smooth. These beings feel very different to a normal person. they still have problems and obstacles but the process them in a unique way One break down I have seen is like this: First marriage/fusion: Soul and Spirit. The two known halves of 'who you actually are, here on earth, join. Second marriage/fusion: The new person merges with their divine spark/higher self/... They now merge with the deeper intelligence. Third marriage/fusion: The triad Soul/Spirit/Spark merge with the whole.

 

Thanks for sharing your knowledge/experience Seth.

 

I agree with Northern Avid Judo Ant that dmattwads anology of the cigarette butt is the best ive heard. It is so simple and so nearly perfect. Thanks dmattwads

[voidisyinyang]

So Chunyi Lin said he met someone - a student - with a golden aura - and this is very rare -- meaning an old soul (or spirit) depending on how the term is used. He thought the student was a hidden master but when he talked to the student her life was all messed up and she got scared when Chunyi said he would personally supervise her training if she would commit to it.

 

So that was a big lesson for Chunyi Lin about how a person does not act out to their spirit potential. I'd be curious how people think this relates to the soul-spirit difference. But Chunyi Lin says he can read people's past lives but he rarely tells them the information unless it helps to heal them. So he shared how a lady was scared of knives and so he informed her how in a past life she had been killed by a knife. Qigong master Jim Nance said Chunyi Lin had shared some of Jim's past life information but then stopped sharing as he didn't think Jim needed to know the information.

 

So anyway I have read of this also for how Poonjaji - H.W.L. Poonja -- when he looked deep into someone's eyes he could read their past lives - and so as we know the spirit comes out of the eyes during the day we can infer that so does the soul energy of the past lives.

 

So I actually saw dead person spirits going to Chunyi Lin and he said that happens to him regularly - they were shaped like humans but floating in the air and yellow light. So Chunyi said he helps the spirits go into the Emptiness which to me from my research means a brighter light - possibly even the Golden Light.

 

It would seem that the golden light is the light of the immortal impersonal consciousness - call it soul or spirit -- or Emptiness, etc. Chunyi Lin said that when he reads auras the purple light is the most healing highest light except that the golden light is beyond even the purple light.

 

And so in Taoist Yoga the golden light also indicates the yang spirit as physical immortality - and so in the training this means the ability to create multiple physical bodies at the same time. This was also described as occurring by H.W.L. Poonja - when it was his birthday and many students each wanted him to go to their houses. So he physically attended six b-day parties at the same time - only he was not personally aware he did this.

 

So the spirit is the realm of personal awareness - or call it what you want - but it is a light body - shen astral energy - the "yin spirit" and I have also seen Chunyi Lin make multiple yin spirits - one after the other - out of the top of his head - while he was in full lotus meditating. And so he said that those were just his yin spirits going out to heal people. When I told this to qigong master Jim Nance he said Chunyi Lin does very profound healing and that each yin spirit is doing individualized healing for particular people. That was a full room of over a hundred people - -the yin spirits were floating out to people -- the students.

 

O.K. so a qigong master fills the body full of yin spirit shen energy - when this is built up enough it creates the yang spirit. But otherwise they can just send out more yin spirits.

 

So Mahayana Buddhism says that the master has to maintain personal awareness of their yang spirits but yet not be attached to them also. That is supreme complete enlightenment - and there's a stage beyond yang spirits -- that way - a term for it that Bodri and Nan use.

 

But the way I see it is because of the complementary opposite resonance of reality there is never a total unification of personal awareness or consciousness and the Emptiness - there is instead an eternal process of energy creation from the Emptiness or formless awareness.

Edited May 18, 2013 by pythagoreanfulllotus

[Maddie]

So Chunyi Lin said he met someone - a student - with a golden aura - and this is very rare -- meaning an old soul (or spirit) depending on how the term is used. He thought the student was a hidden master but when he talked to the student her life was all messed up and she got scared when Chunyi said he would personally supervise her training if she would commit to it.

 

So that was a big lesson for Chunyi Lin about how a person does not act out to their spirit potential. I'd be curious how people think this relates to the soul-spirit difference. But Chunyi Lin says he can read people's past lives but he rarely tells them the information unless it helps to heal them. So he shared how a lady was scared of knives and so he informed her how in a past life she had been killed by a knife. Qigong master Jim Nance said Chunyi Lin had shared some of Jim's past life information but then stopped sharing as he didn't think Jim needed to know the information.

 

So anyway I have read of this also for how Poonjaji - H.W.L. Poonja -- when he looked deep into someone's eyes he could read their past lives - and so as we know the spirit comes out of the eyes during the day we can infer that so does the soul energy of the past lives.

 

So I actually saw dead person spirits going to Chunyi Lin and he said that happens to him regularly - they were shaped like humans but floating in the air and yellow light. So Chunyi said he helps the spirits go into the Emptiness which to me from my research means a brighter light - possibly even the Golden Light.

 

It would seem that the golden light is the light of the immortal impersonal consciousness - call it soul or spirit -- or Emptiness, etc. Chunyi Lin said that when he reads auras the purple light is the most healing highest light except that the golden light is beyond even the purple light.

 

And so in Taoist Yoga the golden light also indicates the yang spirit as physical immortality - and so in the training this means the ability to create multiple physical bodies at the same time. This was also described as occurring by H.W.L. Poonja - when it was his birthday and many students each wanted him to go to their houses. So he physically attended six b-day parties at the same time - only he was not personally aware he did this.

 

So the spirit is the realm of personal awareness - or call it what you want - but it is a light body - shen astral energy - the "yin spirit" and I have also seen Chunyi Lin make multiple yin spirits - one after the other - out of the top of his head - while he was in full lotus meditating. And so he said that those were just his yin spirits going out to heal people. When I told this to qigong master Jim Nance he said Chunyi Lin does very profound healing and that each yin spirit is doing individualized healing for particular people. That was a full room of over a hundred people - -the yin spirits were floating out to people -- the students.

 

O.K. so a qigong master fills the body full of yin spirit shen energy - when this is built up enough it creates the yang spirit. But otherwise they can just send out more yin spirits.

 

Yes both the Liver and Heart channels have branches that go to the eyes. In TCM we are told that the best way to diagnose a patients spirit is by the state of their eyes. In clinical experience I've noticed a few different types of eye patterns which I'm still working to develop my recognition sensitivity. From personal experience I've noticed people who have had some kind of severe trauma in their life tend to have this glassed over look to their eyes, but it only seems like some other students pick up on this. I've asked others students if they saw this and they didn't know what I was talking about, but these tend to be the students who have no interest in personal cultivation.

I've noticed patients who are manic, angry, or disturbed have this glowing quality to their eyes. You see this sometimes in photographs of Adolf Hitler, with those funky glowing eyes. I was treating this service man for PTSD and he had very penetrating eyes and I knew that he had killed someone in the war zone just from the look in his eyes. I remember reading a diary of a Japanese solider in WWII who said that the veterans had more "evil" eyes then the raw recruits.

 

Personally I believe that the spirit (shen) of the heart represents our conscious mind, as the heart is called the house of the mind and the seat of consciousness. I think the Liver's hun ethereal soul is our subconscious mind, which makes sense as it is the part of us that survives death, and Buddhism says our Chitta (subconscious mind) is what goes on after death and is reincarnated.

 

This would explain why we don't have conscious memories of our past lives. The part of us that remembers (shen) is extinguished upon death (the smoke goes out) and is re-light by our ethereal hun soul (subconscious). So the only memories we have of past lives are subconscious ones so the Liver's hun soul would be where our tendencies come from. When our hun gives rise to our new shen it is fresh and new and only has memories of our current life. This would go along with the 5 element cycle of creation where liver wood generates heart fire.

Edited May 18, 2013 by dmattwads

[voidisyinyang]

Yeah at night the heart spirit then goes to the liver to become subconscious but then manifesting in our dreams.

 

So when we meditate we increase the kidney energy which then changes the liver subconscious energy into wisdom so that then goes to the heart so then we become aware of what previously had been subconscious.

 

Then when we go to sleep at night our spirit travel is more peaceful as Chunyi Lin says when we sleep then our spirit does leave our body.

 

So Chunyi Lin described how even when he was young he had dreams that were much more vivid than normal and so he knew those dreams had special power and they were precognitive and so he dad told him not to tell anyone as he could get in trouble. But then Chunyi Lin had a dream about healing his friend and -- his school friend - was then miraculous healed.

 

So Chunyi Lin knew even at a young age that dreams are actually spirit travel if the heart energy is strong enough - and so -- I had this happen also where I had a precognitive dream that came true three years later. When I had the dream I wrote it down since the dream was way more vivid than even being awake!! I wrote I thought the dream would come true. I forgot about writing it down until three years later I got this strange feeling when experiencing something that was exactly the dream! And so I drove up to my parents and I paged through my old journal - sure enough.

 

So it's not just past lives but also the future - the spirit if it goes deep enough into the soul then it predicts our subconscious desires that get played out into the future.

 

So the soul is somehow holographically interwoven in space and time - both the past and future together and also spread out in space. So it would seem that the higher astral levels as angels, etc. are actually higher frequency energy but that means on a holographically more deeper micro-level of the body's energy. So quantum physics says the same thing - as Chunyi said that each color has a different energy and so purple is the highest frequency color from quantum physics but it's also the highest healing energy.

 

So then Chunyi said when a person dies it's best to do the rainbow meditation and so this is the deep bone energy healing - but so that would also seem to balance out their energy. Maybe the golden aura is then the rainbow astral energy combined together.

[Maddie]

Yeah at night the heart spirit then goes to the liver to become subconscious but then manifesting in our dreams.

 

So when we meditate we increase the kidney energy which then changes the liver subconscious energy into wisdom so that then goes to the heart so then we become aware of what previously had been subconscious.

 

Then when we go to sleep at night our spirit travel is more peaceful as Chunyi Lin says when we sleep then our spirit does leave our body.

 

So Chunyi Lin described how even when he was young he had dreams that were much more vivid than normal and so he knew those dreams had special power and they were precognitive and so he dad told him not to tell anyone as he could get in trouble. But then Chunyi Lin had a dream about healing his friend and -- his school friend - was then miraculous healed.

 

So Chunyi Lin knew even at a young age that dreams are actually spirit travel if the heart energy is strong enough - and so -- I had this happen also where I had a precognitive dream that came true three years later. When I had the dream I wrote it down since the dream was way more vivid than even being awake!! I wrote I thought the dream would come true. I forgot about writing it down until three years later I got this strange feeling when experiencing something that was exactly the dream! And so I drove up to my parents and I paged through my old journal - sure enough.

 

So it's not just past lives but also the future - the spirit if it goes deep enough into the soul then it predicts our subconscious desires that get played out into the future.

 

So the soul is somehow holographically interwoven in space and time - both the past and future together and also spread out in space. So it would seem that the higher astral levels as angels, etc. are actually higher frequency energy but that means on a holographically more deeper micro-level of the body's energy. So quantum physics says the same thing - as Chunyi said that each color has a different energy and so purple is the highest frequency color from quantum physics but it's also the highest healing energy.

 

So then Chunyi said when a person dies it's best to do the rainbow meditation and so this is the deep bone energy healing - but so that would also seem to balance out their energy. Maybe the golden aura is then the rainbow astral energy combined together.

 

I was reading one of Bruce Frantzis' books a while back (I don't remember which one) but in his book he mentions that the reason that your karma can change when you cultivate is because as you change your energy vibration what you then radiate out into the universe is a different frequency and thus draws different (usually better if you cultivate correctly) things to you. He said that karma was your qi patterns with in your that were created based upon the actions of your consciousness, and it was their transmission out that brought the results of that karma back to you.

[voidisyinyang]

I was reading one of Bruce Frantzis' books a while back (I don't remember which one) but in his book he mentions that the reason that your karma can change when you cultivate is because as you change your energy vibration what you then radiate out into the universe is a different frequency and thus draws different (usually better if you cultivate correctly) things to you. He said that karma was your qi patterns with in your that were created based upon the actions of your consciousness, and it was their transmission out that brought the results of that karma back to you.

 

yeah reminds me of what qigong master Jim Nance emphasized to me -- "what is your purpose?" The means is not the purpose - focus on the end goal or purpose and it will PULL YOU to it. Then you don't get hung up on your personal life.

 

Pretty intense. Qigong master Jim Nance was saying how he would get angry at things he saw people do and Chunyi Lin would say - don't worry about it just keep meditating. So Jim would just meditate more and more so he was doing 12 hours of full lotus nonstop. haha.

 

I would love to have that opportunity but people would freak out on me like I was in a cult - I mean Jim Nance quit his career job, lived out of his car, and then just meditated as much as possible -- for six years.

[Maddie]

yeah reminds me of what qigong master Jim Nance emphasized to me -- "what is your purpose?" The means is not the purpose - focus on the end goal or purpose and it will PULL YOU to it. Then you don't get hung up on your personal life.

 

Pretty intense. Qigong master Jim Nance was saying how he would get angry at things he saw people do and Chunyi Lin would say - don't worry about it just keep meditating. So Jim would just meditate more and more so he was doing 12 hours of full lotus nonstop. haha.

 

I would love to have that opportunity but people would freak out on me like I was in a cult - I mean Jim Nance quit his career job, lived out of his car, and then just meditated as much as possible -- for six years.

Haha yea I had that experience as well. When I first left Alaska to go to TCM school I was staying with my mom a few months waiting for school to start. I had a little part time job to make enough money to eat and such but other than that I figured all that free time was a good opportunity to meditate and do qigong. Well after a while my mom said to me "why do you meditate and do qigong all the time, you need to get out and live real life" lol. So to humor her I would go some where often a book store and read a qigong book haha. She just could not understand why I wanted to do "nothing" all the time lol.

 

So this past break between semesters I was happy to have my own place and have my roommate out most the time so that I could meditate as much as my heart desired with out anyone telling me what I should be doing instead lol.

 

That reminded me, something interesting I did notice while staying with my mother was she would experience some of the same things as me as I was doing qigong. I was working on my Kidney's one afternoon while she was at work. When she got back home she was acting all paranoid and scared for no reason haha. It was even less fun if I had been working on my Liver that day.

[voidisyinyang]

Haha yea I had that experience as well. When I first left Alaska to go to TCM school I was staying with my mom a few months waiting for school to start. I had a little part time job to make enough money to eat and such but other than that I figured all that free time was a good opportunity to meditate and do qigong. Well after a while my mom said to me "why do you meditate and do qigong all the time, you need to get out and live real life" lol. So to humor her I would go some where often a book store and read a qigong book haha. She just could not understand why I wanted to do "nothing" all the time lol.

 

So this past break between semesters I was happy to have my own place and have my roommate out most the time so that I could meditate as much as my heart desired with out anyone telling me what I should be doing instead lol.

 

That reminded me, something interesting I did notice while staying with my mother was she would experience some of the same things as me as I was doing qigong. I was working on my Kidney's one afternoon while she was at work. When she got back home she was acting all paranoid and scared for no reason haha. It was even less fun if I had been working on my Liver that day.

 

Wow just watched Joe Rogan's standup comedy - no wonder he doesn't want to interview a real qigong master! haha. His energy is stuck on the lower chakra - so he does the thing where he makes everyone laugh but it is just activating their lower chakra energy -- actually pulling their spirit down.

 

I think he still has potential though so I tweeted the latest Jim Nance qigong master talk to Joe Rogan and his publicist Matt Staggs. I said how Jim Nance healed a man who had club foot and couldn't walk on it for 15 years! Matt Staggs was claiming qigong is just for relaxation and relieving stress.

 

So yeah they activate the lower chakra but if you try to raise up their consciousness then you are making them confront their subconscious self and so their conscious mind just freaks out. haha.

 

My sister yelled at me the other day -- "Oh you're such an angel!" That was her insult to me. haha. I was like - wow the "Holier than thou!" attack. I haven't got that in a while since giving females orgasms at a distance is the opposite of being "holier than thou." haha.

 

I was proud that my subconscious mind shot back at her: "That's not what I said!" I never attacked her but just turned it back on me as a negation. haha.

 

But I had pointed out that the one year old baby -- well now maybe 15 months - so she has hit all the females in the house - the other three - but the baby has never hit me. I said that the baby was just acting in self defense and so people just needed to respect the baby, etc.

 

So I guess that makes me an angel. haha.

[Maddie]

Wow just watched Joe Rogan's standup comedy - no wonder he doesn't want to interview a real qigong master! haha. His energy is stuck on the lower chakra - so he does the thing where he makes everyone laugh but it is just activating their lower chakra energy -- actually pulling their spirit down.

 

I think he still has potential though so I tweeted the latest Jim Nance qigong master talk to Joe Rogan and his publicist Matt Staggs. I said how Jim Nance healed a man who had club foot and couldn't walk on it for 15 years! Matt Staggs was claiming qigong is just for relaxation and relieving stress.

 

So yeah they activate the lower chakra but if you try to raise up their consciousness then you are making them confront their subconscious self and so their conscious mind just freaks out. haha.

 

My sister yelled at me the other day -- "Oh you're such an angel!" That was her insult to me. haha. I was like - wow the "Holier than thou!" attack. I haven't got that in a while since giving females orgasms at a distance is the opposite of being "holier than thou." haha.

 

I was proud that my subconscious mind shot back at her: "That's not what I said!" I never attacked her but just turned it back on me as a negation. haha.

 

But I had pointed out that the one year old baby -- well now maybe 15 months - so she has hit all the females in the house - the other three - but the baby has never hit me. I said that the baby was just acting in self defense and so people just needed to respect the baby, etc.

 

So I guess that makes me an angel. haha.

 

You mean the Joe Rogan that announces for the UFC? Do you know him? Back in Alaska when I was first getting into qigong I was also doing some hard core MMA training. I always used to wonder why there weren't any guys in the UFC who had cultivated qi to a high degree as in internal martial arts. I used to think how cool it would be to see one of those guys in the octagon looking all unassuming and then throwing down with the qi lol.

 

Most of the other guys would just snicker when I spoke about qi, and I was thinking "but this is martial arts, aren't you guys supposed to be into this stuff?" lol. Of course when I would do some qigong before training and then kick butt during sparring they never attributed it to the qigong haha.

 

Well a few years down the road and having a little more cultivation under my belt and I think I get it now lol. You cultivate a bit and being a UFC champion just does not seem all that important anymore .

 

But still I do admire the discipline and dedication those guys have to train and use it as inspiration to do what I do.

Edited May 18, 2013 by dmattwads

[voidisyinyang]

You mean the Joe Rogan that announces for the UFC? Do you know him? Back in Alaska when I was first getting into qigong I was also doing some hard core MMA training. I always used to wonder why there weren't any guys in the UFC who had cultivated qi to a high degree as in internal martial arts. I used to think how cool it would be to see one of those guys in the octagon looking all unassuming and then throwing down with the qi lol.

 

Most of the other guys would just snicker when I spoke about qi, and I was thinking "but this is martial arts, aren't you guys supposed to be into this stuff?" lol. Of course when I would do some qigong before training and then kick butt during sparring they never attributed it to the qigong haha.

 

Well a few years down the road and having a little more cultivation under my belt and I think I get it now lol. You cultivate a bit and being a UFC champion just does not seem all that important anymore .

 

But still I do admire the discipline and dedication those guys have to train and use it as inspiration to do what I do.

 

yeah his publicist responded to me trying to get them to interview a qigong master. Well I didn't ask out directly but they have quantum consciousness on there and paranormal - the JOe Rogan podcast - he has a million twitter followers. But the publicist just embraced the "skeptic" dismissal of the qi research even though it was "gold standard" science. So at first he said - ah qi energy is just relaxation. Then he said the study was not "external qi" and then he said - yeah but these skeptics dismiss it. Then he said - well send me some energy since I have a cold!

 

Yeah - - well -- I mean obviously the big kicker is celibacy -- and also qigong master Jim Nance says even if you show these people tricks their heart is not changed and so they just go back to the way they were. Indeed. Even people who get healed often do that.

 

But too bad since the foundation of martial arts is the qigong training.....

[Maddie]

yeah his publicist responded to me trying to get them to interview a qigong master. Well I didn't ask out directly but they have quantum consciousness on there and paranormal - the JOe Rogan podcast - he has a million twitter followers. But the publicist just embraced the "skeptic" dismissal of the qi research even though it was "gold standard" science. So at first he said - ah qi energy is just relaxation. Then he said the study was not "external qi" and then he said - yeah but these skeptics dismiss it. Then he said - well send me some energy since I have a cold!

 

Yeah - - well -- I mean obviously the big kicker is celibacy -- and also qigong master Jim Nance says even if you show these people tricks their heart is not changed and so they just go back to the way they were. Indeed. Even people who get healed often do that.

 

But too bad since the foundation of martial arts is the qigong training.....

 

I know I know it baffles me lol. In fact it was martial arts that got me interested in qigong in the first place. I saw Dr. Yang's book about Qigong and Martial arts and I was like everyone else who as a kid saw a Kung fu movie and was like "oh that's the secret stuff they train that makes them so good" lol. So I got the book and started and lo and behold I got way better at marital arts fast! I didn't anticipate all the other stuff that came with it though. I eventually even changed styles from mostly stand up striking to Brazilian jujitsu grappling because with grappling you could stop an opponent with out hurting them (if you wanted to).

 

But yea it was cool cause if I did qigong before practice it was like during sparing it was much easier to pick up on the subtle signs that the opponent would telegraph before they made a move and you could be a couple steps ahead of them. It also seemed to improve my speed and made taking a hit a little easier.

 

But yea that's pretty cool about Joe Rogan. I don't know how many countless UFC matches I've listened to him announce lol. Ah that was my dream for a while there in Alaska, I trained hard, but as my MMA friends say now I got "soft" on them haha. I didn't enjoy hurting people anymore, but they all seemed to get off on it.

[voidisyinyang]

I know I know it baffles me lol. In fact it was martial arts that got me interested in qigong in the first place. I saw Dr. Yang's book about Qigong and Martial arts and I was like everyone else who as a kid saw a Kung fu movie and was like "oh that's the secret stuff they train that makes them so good" lol. So I got the book and started and lo and behold I got way better at marital arts fast! I didn't anticipate all the other stuff that came with it though. I eventually even changed styles from mostly stand up striking to Brazilian jujitsu grappling because with grappling you could stop an opponent with out hurting them (if you wanted to).

 

But yea it was cool cause if I did qigong before practice it was like during sparing it was much easier to pick up on the subtle signs that the opponent would telegraph before they made a move and you could be a couple steps ahead of them. It also seemed to improve my speed and made taking a hit a little easier.

 

But yea that's pretty cool about Joe Rogan. I don't know how many countless UFC matches I've listened to him announce lol. Ah that was my dream for a while there in Alaska, I trained hard, but as my MMA friends say now I got "soft" on them haha. I didn't enjoy hurting people anymore, but they all seemed to get off on it.

 

yeah good point ''getting off" -- it is sadism - but really it's a dopamine rush. So actually the serotonin trance - I got that through music but it had to be hardcore - I mean I memorized a Bach slow movement piano concerto -- and that increased my alpha waves serotonin trance.

 

But I think the slow mo thing -- so the adrenaline spikes and causes a speeding up of information processing by the hippocampus and so time seems to go slower since you're processing information faster.

 

Last time I had that happen was when I was on a bike with no brakes and went through a red light at a busy intersection with a semi truck turning towards me. haha. A near death experience.

 

So the question is - does that slower time perception cause a serotonin spike -- it must be a parasympathetic rebound. Duh.

 

So if you push your adrenaline sympathetic system to its limit then it rebounds to the opposite extreme of relaxation trance in the parasympathetic - thereby making you really empathic with some qi increase, etc.

 

Like before I performed the piano recital by memory - my hands were in cold sweat - so obviously I had a major adrenaline spike - but you gotta perform anyway - and then time slows down while you are processing information so fast in a trance state....

 

 

The fatigue produced by “over-training” is probably produced by a tryptophan and serotonin overload, resulting from catabolism of muscle proteins and stress-induced increases in serotonin. Muscle catabolism also releases a large amount of cysteine, and cysteine, methionine, and tryptophan suppress thyroid function (Carvalho, et al., 2000). Stress also liberates free fatty acids from storage, and these fatty acids increase the uptake of tryptophan into the brain, increasing the formation of serotonin. Since serotonin increases ACTH and cortisol secretion, the catabolic state tends to be self-perpetuating. This process is probably a factor influencing the rate of aging, and contributing to the physiological peculiarities of aging and depression.

 

http://raypeat.com/articles/aging/tryptophan-serotonin-aging.shtml

 

http://ionamiller.weebly.com/emotional-alchemy.html

Edited May 18, 2013 by pythagoreanfulllotus

[Maddie]

yeah good point ''getting off" -- it is sadism - but really it's a dopamine rush. So actually the serotonin trance - I got that through music but it had to be hardcore - I mean I memorized a Bach slow movement piano concerto -- and that increased my alpha waves serotonin trance.

 

But I think the slow mo thing -- so the adrenaline spikes and causes a speeding up of information processing by the hippocampus and so time seems to go slower since you're processing information faster.

 

Last time I had that happen was when I was on a bike with no brakes and went through a red light at a busy intersection with a semi truck turning towards me. haha. A near death experience.

 

So the question is - does that slower time perception cause a serotonin spike -- it must be a parasympathetic rebound. Duh.

 

So if you push your adrenaline sympathetic system to its limit then it rebounds to the opposite extreme of relaxation trance in the parasympathetic - thereby making you really empathic with some qi increase, etc.

 

Like before I performed the piano recital by memory - my hands were in cold sweat - so obviously I had a major adrenaline spike - but you gotta perform anyway - and then time slows down while you are processing information so fast in a trance state....

 

 

 

http://raypeat.com/articles/aging/tryptophan-serotonin-aging.shtml

 

http://ionamiller.weebly.com/emotional-alchemy.html

Yea something funky definitely happens with time perception in situations like that. I remember one time someone filmed me sparring and when I was watching the play back it looked so different than how I remember experiencing it as it happened. Watching it, it looked so fast, but from my perspective the time seemed much slower.

 

*Actually the martial art topic got me to thinking about something. I've noticed that in my TCM school its often the Chinese students that are the least interested in cultivation, qi, ect. Most of them tend to approach TCM as just another job. Some of them were telling me that even in China TCM is sort of looked at as second rate after western medicine.

 

So I was pondering the irony of the western students being more into Tao than the Chinese students. They also told me that its very uncommon for Chinese young people there to study marital arts. Now I realize that the cultural revolution played a big part in this but these attitudes even apply to Taiwanese students who did not have a cultural revolution in their past. So I began to wonder why the Chinese seemed to have lost faith in their own culture and heritage.

 

Then being the good history major that I am, I thought back to the Boxer Rebellion. Around the turn of the 20th century the Chinese (with good reason) were sick and tired of their country being dominated by the west. Missionaries were undermining their traditions while western businesses were dominating the economy.

 

Part of the reason for this domination was that somewhere along the line a lot of western technology had outstripped the Chinese technology. The Chinese had lost the Opium wars (which opened the door for outside domination) largely due to their guns and cannons being inferior to those of the west.

 

Realizing that their modern weapon technology was outclassed they began to hope in another kind of technology that they had which the west was not privy to. They hoped to rely on Kung Fu to oust the westerners. This is why it was called the Boxer Rebellion. To the westerners Kung Fu fighters were "boxers".

 

Since Iron Shirt qigong when practiced to a high level made one very resistant to bladed weapons the martial artists assumed that they would be impervious to bullets as well. Well they weren't and as the failure of the Boxer Revolution showed Kung Fu and qigong were no match for modern weapons.

 

This defeat caused the Chinese to swing way far in the other direction and loose faith in many of their traditions like Kung Fu and qigong. Instead of realizing both the limitations of Kung Fu and its advantages they just lost hope and threw the baby out with the bath water.

Edited May 18, 2013 by dmattwads

[voidisyinyang]

Yea something funky definitely happens with time perception in situations like that. I remember one time someone filmed me sparring and when I was watching the play back it looked so different than how I remember experiencing it as it happened. Watching it, it looked so fast, but from my perspective the time seemed much slower.

 

*Actually the martial art topic got me to thinking about something. I've noticed that in my TCM school its often the Chinese students that are the least interested in cultivation, qi, ect. Most of them tend to approach TCM as just another job. Some of them were telling me that even in China TCM is sort of looked at as second rate after western medicine.

 

So I was pondering the irony of the western students being more into Tao than the Chinese students. They also told me that its very uncommon for Chinese young people there to study marital arts. Now I realize that the cultural revolution played a big part in this but these attitudes even apply to Taiwanese students who did not have a cultural revolution in their past. So I began to wonder why the Chinese seemed to have lost faith in their own culture and heritage.

 

Then being the good history major that I am, I thought back to the Boxer Rebellion. Around the turn of the 20th century the Chinese (with good reason) were sick and tired of their country being dominated by the west. Missionaries were undermining their traditions while western businesses were dominating the economy.

 

Part of the reason for this domination was that somewhere along the line a lot of western technology had outstripped the Chinese technology. The Chinese had lost the Opium wars (which opened the door for outside domination) largely due to their guns and cannons being inferior to those of the west.

 

Realizing that their modern weapon technology was outclassed they began to hope in another kind of technology that they had which the west was not privy to. They hoped to rely on Kung Fu to oust the westerners. This is why it was called the Boxer Rebellion. To the westerners Kung Fu fighters were "boxers".

 

Since Iron Shirt qigong when practiced to a high level made one very resistant to bladed weapons the martial artists assumed that they would be impervious to bullets as well. Well they weren't and as the failure of the Boxer Revolution showed Kung Fu and qigong were no match for modern weapons.

 

This defeat caused the Chinese to swing way far in the other direction and loose faith in many of their traditions like Kung Fu and qigong. Instead of realizing both the limitations of Kung Fu and its advantages they just lost hope and threw the baby out with the bath water.

 

right actually David Palmer's main point in his "qigong fever" book is that the qigong craze of the 1980s actually helped China Westernize and once qigong had served its purpose then the regime just got rid of mass movement qigong like Zhong Gong and Falun Gong.

 

So Slavoj Zizek calls this a "vanishing mediator" using his Lacanian psychoanalysis which is linguistic-based so that there is a symbolic void as the Real -- an Emptiness. Only in this case it was the real Emptiness of qigong masters. haha.

 

So then you had a few who did make it to qigong master status and even escaped China and now teach qigong in the West, etc. like Chunyi Lin and I found a married couple teaching Zhong Gong but calling it Heavenly Qi or something - another Zhong Gong teacher like that in S.F. but anyway.

 

So the idea is that the qigong fever of the 1980s enabled people to be more discipline, more mentally and emotionally stronger, flexible, etc. and this was the catalyst for the rapid industrialization and Westernization of China.

 

It makes sense when you consider that Yan Xin focused on scientific testing of his qigong and Zhang Hengbao also focused on academics -- and Yan Xin called qigong "the highest technology of all technologies" -- so they basically redefined qigong into a Westernized concept I suppose to fit it in with the Communist materialistic science mentality.

 

But now China is ravaged by cancer and environmental pollution and also supply-side economic disaster - you know the "build it and they will come" mentality. Anyway I personally am not a humanist and I don't think the future of humanity is very positive -- I think humans are just animals and like any other population growth -- it goes as high as the environment can take it and then the population collapses. But everyone wants to believe technology will enable continued expansion -- to colonize space since we've destroyed Earth. haha.

 

Yeah so even if the Chinese are not into Taoism I think that ontologically -- that it is the physiological truth of humanity. The modern male ejaculation addiction creates the Edifice Complex as Missile Envy or Penis Envy -- who's is bigger? Fight, fight! Rape and pillage and slave labor and hedonism.

 

I know I read how being vegetarian in China is now considered a "holier than thou" mentality.

 

But yeah vegetarianism in South India is really from the environmental constraints and so on a larger scale these constraints can be externalized - so China gets its soy to feed its pigs - the soy is from destroying the Amazon by a U.S. private corporation based in Minnesota - Cargill - which is so powerful that it works directly with the CIA and has no congressional oversight but Cargill gets huge amounts of tax subsidies since Cargill has been a key weapon in the Cold War -- food as a weapon.

 

Yeah so the Amazon gets destroyed in the meanwhile -- and it just gets dismissed as a "holier than thou" mentality to want to save the Amazon - oh that's just yuppies in the U.S. who can afford to be environmentalists. haha. So they are against Brazilian development, etc. But actually it's the U.S. corporations who are developing the Amazon and doing it to sell the soy to China and to Europe for KFC chicken feed, etc.

 

Yeah so the economy is very much globalized like the U.S. corporations in China really scam the Chinese and the Chinese know this but the U.S. corporations are just in league with the Communist regime and so all these "Chinese" goods flooding the U.S. are mainly U.S. controlled production in China.

 

So Kissinger sits on China's petroleum national corporation board of directors.

 

The global elite have no real national identity - I mean the real wealthy in the U.S. do not use actual cash money because then they might have to pay taxes.

 

So anyway something like the Boxer Rebellion -- the smog of China now threatens the west coast of the U.S. haha.

 

Nationalism I think is almost dead now.

 

Yes all these shamans, etc. like in India -- the idea of spirituality it seems is so influenced by Western new ageism that the middle class Indians are spiritual in order to be more Westernized. haha.

 

But the real energy masters are very very rare and most people into the spiritual scene have no idea.

Edited May 18, 2013 by pythagoreanfulllotus

[Vanir Thunder Dojo Tan]

quit quoting the person who posted only just before you! its not like we dont know who you're talking to or what they said! if it was on another page, or there were 3 or more posts in between, i wouldnt be so irked, but seriously guys, this is redundant (i find redundancy very hilarious, but i cant tell if ya knew you were doin' it )

[voidisyinyang]

quit quoting the person who posted only just before you! its not like we dont know who you're talking to or what they said! if it was on another page, or there were 3 or more posts in between, i wouldnt be so irked, but seriously guys, this is redundant (i find redundancy very hilarious, but i cant tell if ya knew you were doin' it )

 

repetition is not redundancy.

[eye_of_the_storm]

Nationalism is the cure.

[voidisyinyang]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LsyBgF3EjNU

 

So this dude is fascinating! Robert Peterson on OBEs and astral travel.

 

He's the most articulate person I've heard on this subject.

 

http://www.robertpeterson.org/chap26.html

 

has a book also.

 

So.... he starts on C2C about 1 hour 16 mns in....

[voidisyinyang]

http://cattanga.typepad.com/tabby_cat_gamespace/2013/02/time-for-a-little-book-roundup-well-actually-just-one-book-explorations-in-consciousness-a-new-approach-to-out-of-body-e.html

[zerostao]

ha , you dont have to be lacan or derida to know all of reality is linguistic based.

qigong is high level technology

" I mean the real wealthy in the U.S. do not use actual cash money because then they might have to pay taxes."

i must fall into that category, coz i dont use cash or pay taxes. wealthy aint got a dang thing to do with money, anywayz.

redundancy is useful but the realities still fall upon(unwilling to listen) deaf ears.

no matter how often ya slap some of these guys across the face with missile/penis , they still just dont get it.

pfl, define spiritual scene

edit> one can apply to attend the school of consciousness and transformation for 981$ a unit ha

been watching a group of crows working as a team today and had all the other birds pissed,,,so really i aint saying ha ha its more like ah ah,

i dont find nde or obe all that useful...trance , definately a no on that

Edited May 19, 2013 by zerostao

[voidisyinyang]

ha , you dont have to be lacan or derida to know all of reality is linguistic based.

qigong is high level technology

" I mean the real wealthy in the U.S. do not use actual cash money because then they might have to pay taxes."

i must fall into that category, coz i dont use cash or pay taxes. wealthy aint got a dang thing to do with money, anywayz.

redundancy is useful but the realities still fall upon(unwilling to listen) deaf ears.

no matter how often ya slap some of these guys across the face with missile/penis , they still just dont get it.

pfl, define spiritual scene

edit> one can apply to attend the school of consciousness and transformation for 981$ a unit ha

been watching a group of crows working as a team today and had all the other birds pissed,,,so really i aint saying ha ha its more like ah ah,

i dont find nde or obe all that useful...trance , definately a no on that

 

 

I'm still listening to Robert Peterson - and reading his book http://www.robertpeterson.org/chap17.html

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LsyBgF3EjNU

 

He's very articulate.

 

Yeah qigong master Jim nance talks to the birds - he has a crow friend in Northern Minnesota - the crow had conversations with him.

[eye_of_the_storm]

What did it say?