Do you practice at midnight?

[Neophyte]

Swallowing is best when it happens from alone. The work of gathering is compared less useful because the energy quality doesnt

came from the overflow of vitality. If it happens it is best by meditation and Qigong and and taking three gulbs into the lower dantien, while seperating the energy from the saliva. Also if it is Yin time the activity is lowered in the body, gathering Saliva is taking long and producing is energywasting and the quality is lacking.The taste of saliva should be strangely sweet while having clean mouth.

 

I wasn't going to add another post to this thread, but I started thinking about this. I sometimes practice the swallowing saliva technique (when I can, lol). I think I do it correctly, but I'm not totally sure that I do it to the full potential of the exercise.

 

My question is, How do you separate the energy from the saliva?

 

I'm not just sending this question out to Friend, but to whoever might be able to help me.

[Friend]

Edited August 17, 2013 by Friend

[Neophyte]

I hope that someone can answer this:

 

I know that true midnight needs to be calculated: it does not coincide with Western-clock time of 12:00 am.

 

But for simplicity, let's say that true midnight is exactly 12 am. According to qigong literature, the hour of tsu begins at 11:00 pm and lasts about two hours.

 

Taoist Yoga says to begin meditating at hour of tsu. TY and other literature says to swallow saliva after MIDNIGHT.

 

My question is:

 

What is midnight? Is it at the beginning of hour of tsu, or halfway through?

[dawei]

I suspect that 'clock times' which were historically defined down to a 'best' for certain organs or practices differs now in modern times due to environmental and physical influences. That just means that we need to listen to our body to figure out what works better than not.

 

For myself: I am a night owl and have a hard time going to sleep earlier than later but I know that going to sleep after midnight usually leaves me less than feeling good, even if I get 12 hours of sleep.

 

I also know that any practice I attempt from 11pm-1am just doesn't feel good. But I can go to sleep and wake up at 3-5am and practice fine.

 

So I've made an agreement with myself: If it is late, I simply go to bed. And if I happen to awake, for any reason, between 3-5pm, then I will do some breathing exercises.

[ChiDragon]

Taoist Yoga says to begin meditating at hour of tsu. TY and other literature says to swallow saliva after MIDNIGHT.

 

My question is:

 

What is midnight? Is it at the beginning of hour of tsu, or halfway through?

 

tsu(子時): 11:00 pm to 1:00 am

 

Midnight is universal, thus it is 12:00 am which is halfway through.

[Nungali]

Ayurveda stands for going to bed 2 hours prior to astronomical midnight. As only this time our mental state of mind rests. And to wake at 4-5 a.m. for practice yoga and meditation.

 

At the same time according to taoist perspective this is one of the best time to practice.

 

Any clever thoughts on it? What time are you going to bed?

 

I am striving for going to bed at 11 pm but it is real challenge as another people in my house not sleeping till very late. But I noticed it is better to go to bed earlier. But might be practicing at midnight has it's benefits?

For 'meditation' perhaps. For years (and sometimes out of nostalgia or for a 'top up' lately) I did meditation at midnight, also dawn, midday and sunset - the 4 'stations of the Sun'. After a time of constant practice it really changes one headspace as it turns out that one of those is going to interrupt the sleep cycle ... and that seemed a crucial part of the meditation ... and one with a 'hidden' in built design ... to interrupt the sleep cycle - a phase of loosing consciousness in sleep ...' ignorance cycle' - a phase of losing consciousness while awake (that is, losing 'higher consciousness and awareness' while walking around as an awake robotoid) and 'death cycle' (loosing consciousness and awareness imprinted on 'that which survives') ie, practice for dying.

 

Just staying up late to midnight wont do that (except with this meditation if you do that, chances are you will have to break sleep cycle at dawn - sneaky! Whoever thought THAT up )

 

Favourite training time though ... just after dawn! I used to love swinging a Bo in the park by the river and looking upstream to the mountains ... or doing Ecu on the beach at dawn ... aaah! those were the days!

[SonOfTheGods]

Ayurveda stands for going to bed 2 hours prior to astronomical midnight. As only this time our mental state of mind rests. And to wake at 4-5 a.m. for practice yoga and meditation.

 

At the same time according to taoist perspective this is one of the best time to practice.

 

Any clever thoughts on it? What time are you going to bed?

 

I am striving for going to bed at 11 pm but it is real challenge as another people in my house not sleeping till very late. But I noticed it is better to go to bed earlier. But might be practicing at midnight has it's benefits?

2 hours full lotus starting 1 hour prior to my midnight

[thelerner]

 

tsu(子時): 11:00 pm to 1:00 am

 

Midnight is universal, thus it is 12:00 am which is halfway through.

So you are saying if there's, 10 hours of 'night time' ie between sunset and sunrise, then 'Mid'night is 5 hours after sunset. Just divide 'nighttime' in half, and the middle is Midnight in TCM? Makes sense to me.

Edited October 20, 2013 by thelerner

[SonOfTheGods]

2 hours full lotus starting 1 hour prior to my midnight

just a coincidence

 

time and space in the bigger scheme of things- like attaining godhood is not bound by time and space = illusion maya etc

[ChiDragon]

So you are saying if there's, 10 hours of 'night time' ie between sunset and sunrise, then 'Mid'night is 5 hours after sunset. Just divide 'nighttime' in half, and the middle is Midnight in TCM? Makes sense to me.

 

 

hmmmm.....

There are twelve time units in the Chinese time clock. Each time unit is equal to two hours. The first time unit begins with tsu(11:00 pm to 1:00 am).

[Neophyte]

 

tsu(子時): 11:00 pm to 1:00 am

 

Midnight is universal, thus it is 12:00 am which is halfway through.

 

Okay, so I calculated true midnight to be 2:36 A.M. (because sunrise today was at 7:51 a.m and sunset will occur at 6:41 pm.)

 

So, the hour of tsu begins at 1:36 a.m?

 

So, I should start meditating around 1:36 A.M., and then wait until after 2:36 A.M. before I practice the swallowing saliva technique?

 

And this is Daylight Saving Time, so does that change anything?

 

 

I'm not just asking ChiDragon, but anyone who can clear this up for me.

[dawei]

Okay, so I calculated true midnight to be 2:36 A.M. (because sunrise today was at 7:51 a.m and sunset will occur at 6:41 pm.)

 

So, the hour of tsu begins at 1:36 a.m?

 

So, I should start meditating around 1:36 A.M., and then wait until after 2:36 A.M. before I practice the swallowing saliva technique?

 

And this is Daylight Saving Time, so does that change anything?

 

 

I'm not just asking ChiDragon, but anyone who can clear this up for me.

 

The two hour cycle, 12 branches, is based on the Luo Shu. And then assigned to 12 hour segments of the day which reflects the energy flow, change, transformation of Yin-to-Yang and Yang-to-Yin.

 

There are two hour ranges probably to account for seasonal shifts and that the change/transformation is not instantaneous but ever shifting.

 

So I don't see a need to figure up an actual or best mid-point based on time when what your working with is energy.

 

11-1 is said to be the best time but at both times of day; midnight and midday. If a Yang Qi imbalance then midnight (energy is most Yin); a Yin Qi imbalance then midday (energy is most Yang). To take advantage of the texture of energy during that part of the day.

 

The reason 3-5am is popular is that instead of just looking at the most Yin 'time', is to look at when the lungs peak for energy work, and that is this time. Each two hour block has many associations including an organ.

 

http://kerrchiropractic.wordpress.com/2008/03/21/the-meridian-organ-clock/

[ChiDragon]

hmmmm.....

Okay, so I calculated true midnight to be 2:36 A.M. (because sunrise today was at 7:51 a.m and sunset will occur at 6:41 pm.)

 

So, the hour of tsu begins at 1:36 a.m?

 

So, I should start meditating around 1:36 A.M., and then wait until after 2:36 A.M. before I practice the swallowing saliva technique?

 

And this is Daylight Saving Time, so does that change anything?

 

 

I'm not just asking ChiDragon, but anyone who can clear this up for me.

hmmm....

Things are getting complicated.

 

By definition tsu(子時) is 11:00 pm to 12:59 am. In the ancient time, that was where the day breaks. Another words, the next day start at tsu.

 

In regards to "I practice the swallowing saliva technique", it makes no difference when do you swallow your saliva. We swallow saliva all day long. The organs may have a biological effect around the time clock but the saliva is constantly flowing to keep the mouth moist. Thus it makes no different when do we swallow it.

 

Please remember, the ancient Taoists were not scientifically oriented, but everything has to have a reason. Hence, their explanations for the reasons can be myths with no logic proof. What I will do is to correlate their hypothesis with modern science and go through a process of deductive reasoning to make some sense out of it.

 

PS....

Isn't the true midnight is at 12:00 am......???

Edited October 20, 2013 by ChiDragon

[Neophyte]

hmmmm.....

hmmm....

Things are getting complicated.

 

By definition tsu(子時) is 11:00 pm to 12:59 am. In the ancient time, that was where the day breaks. Another words, the next day start at tsu.

 

In regards to "I practice the swallowing saliva technique", it makes no difference when do you swallow your saliva. We swallow saliva all day long. The organs may have a biological effect around the time clock but the saliva is constantly flowing to keep the mouth moist. Thus it makes no different when do we swallow it.

 

I'm not referring to the normal function of swallowing saliva. I'm referring to the technique of swallowing saliva, which is an exercise to restore the generative force. In fact, it's known as the FASTEST way to restore one's generative force.

 

It is described in Taoist Yoga and also by Yang, Jwing-Ming in 8 Pieces of Brocade.

 

To very briefly describe it:

 

You should sit in a posture described as "forming as circuit of the eight psychic channels." After deeply relaxing and counting breaths, keep tongue at heavenly pool (soft palate). Done properly, the mouth fills suddenly with saliva; your mouth is so full it almost bursts out. You then imagine swallowing the energy from the saliva down jen mo into lower tan t'ien. Then swallow the saliva with a loud gulp down to tan t'ien. You are to then practice six or seven breaths of embryonic breathing, before swallowing a mouthful of saliva again.

 

According to Taoist Yoga, swallowing saliva should be done in the positive half of the day which begins at tsu and ends 11:00 AM. But it says, more specifically, to swallow it after midnight. In books by Yang,Jwing-Ming, it also says to do at after midnight.

 

PS....

Isn't the true midnight is at 12:00 am......???

 

There is a fellow taobum who told me that true midnight changes according to sunrise and sunset. He showed me how to calculate it. According to his instructions, I calculated true midnight to fall at 2:36 AM. tonight.

 

This is how he described calculating midnight:

 

"Example Sunrise 8AM. Sundown8PM = 12hours. Rest= 12hours

12 hours / 2 = 6 . Midnight is at 6. So 8PM + 6 = 14 hours or 12 + 2hours = 2 A.M

 

2.A.M is real Midnight arcording to the day. <- Real absolute max of Yin Time based on the Sun."

[baiqi]

You are remindining me I should pratice right now. Thanks for that.

[ChiDragon]

This is how he described calculating midnight:

 

"Example Sunrise 8AM. Sundown8PM = 12hours. Rest= 12hours

12 hours / 2 = 6 . Midnight is at 6. So 8PM + 6 = 14 hours or 12 + 2hours = 2 A.M

 

2.A.M is real Midnight arcording to the day. <- Real absolute max of Yin Time based on the Sun."

 

Okay....

The calculation for midnight in California on Oct 20, 2013

Sunrise: 7:02am

Sunset: 6:14pm

 

(11 hours and 12 mins) / 2 = 5 hours and 36 mins

 

True midnight is 6:14 + 5:36 = 11:50am for winter;

for summer is 12:50am. it is because of daylight saving time we have to set one hour back for true midnight.

 

So, the spread between winter and summer is 11:50pm to 12:50am. Perhaps the Chinese might have had taken that into consideration and set the tsu(子時) between 11:00pm and 12:59am for the whole calendar year.

 

On Oct 26, 2013

Sunrise: 7:07am

Sunset: 6:07pm

 

Midnight is 11:37pm; and true midnight for summer is 12:37am

Edited October 21, 2013 by ChiDragon

[Brian]

Daylight savings adjustment should be ignored in calculations based on solar position since the sane offset applies to both sides of the equality (except on those nights when the time-change actually occur).

[ChiDragon]

How about explaining this to me then....Thanks...!!!
http://www.answerbag.com/q_view/303789?utm_source=popup&utm_medium=1

[Brian]

Easy! That answer you linked to is incorrect.

 

 

Your logic is exactly right IF you ignore whether it is DST or not. In truth, you should ignore your time zone, your relative position within that time zone and whether your clock is correct. In fact, you could randomly set your clock before taking the measurements and you would still pinpoint "true midnight" relative to "your time" - as long as you don't adjust your clock again during the process.

Edited October 21, 2013 by Brian

[Brian]

More correctly, the answer in the link isn't "incorrect," strictly speaking -- it just doesn't apply to the measurements and calculation you are explaining. The author was attempting to point out that our current clock settings have no tight relationship to Sun position...

[ChiDragon]

Okay, the people in China did not consider using the daylight saving time. It would be fine after all.....

Besides, each of the ancient Chinese time units have a two hour spread to cover that.

Edited October 21, 2013 by ChiDragon

[Brian]

Okay, the people in China did not consider using the daylight saving time. It would be fine after all.....

 

Yep! Really doesn't matter because we no longer use time-keeping systems that are directly related to the Sun's position. A thought-experiment:

 

Take three alarm clocks. Set one to "standard time," one to "DST," and one to some completely random time. Then make sunrise and sunset recordings according to each clock. Make three sets of calculations and set each alarm to that block's calculated "true midnight." Then wait...

 

The three alarms will sound in unison.

[ChiDragon]

Actually, there is no time zone in China. There is only one clock throughout.

[Brian]

Interesting - so more detached from Sun-time than most countries.

 

Is that part of Mao's legacy?

[Daeluin]

If looking for true solar noon/midnight, if in US and in Daylight Savings time, yes subtract one hour to get clock time.

 

Then one must adjust for the analemma.

I like using this site for looking up past dates/locations, but it also gives the exact solar noon for the date/location entered: http://www.esrl.noaa.gov/gmd/grad/solcalc/

 

The chinese hour of tsu/zi is 11pm-1am, but the yang returns at midnight. I'm still working practice into this, but my mind wants to think of it like this: The first part of the hour is good for really settling into stillness, so one may clearly feel when the maximum of yin is reached and the first sliver of yang appears. Then one can align one's inner clock with the return of yang. And the same for noon to where yang reaches it's maxiumum and yin begins to enter. If we can catch the seed of these changes and adapt when they are small, perhaps it is easier to maintain one's center and avoid being surprised later on. My mind thinks the same of the new/full moon, winter/summer solstices.

 

My mind wants to think these exteremes of change are important for adaptation, but the equinoxes and period of sunrise/sunset are also very important as those energies are naturally more in balance with each other. Lately I quite enjoy doing energy work before sunrise.

Edited June 17, 2014 by Daeluin