The feel of Internal Power (Jin)

[ssmith7]

So thank you to those who contributed my last question on the best method to develop internal power.

 

I know many will relate to what I say next. Throughout the day, there is a powerful surge of energy that rises in the microcosmic orbit. This magnetic power wave is also what you use, of course, is what you move your body with when doing qigong, taichi, IMA, etc. When I first began doing tai chi, this force was rather weak. I could barely use it to move and definitely could not use it to hold my body in positions that would typically use muscular effort (i.e holding a squat position or 'hug the tree' position, etc). Overtime, however, the ability to use internal strength and to hold my body and move my body through otherwise muscular movements has increased (i.e doing squats using internal strength is effortless at this point, very little muscular involvement). Over time, as well, I have learned to project power outside of my body (though with little devastating strength).

 

My question is this: Is internal power the power it takes to reverse your movement's power source from external muscular energy to internal energy? In other words, if you saw someone doing 100 one-handed pushups-using only internal strength (their muscles were never engaged or sore), would you imagine that person to have a high storage of chi and jin or is it possible that this person has yet to develop internal power?

 

Thank You,

Shawn

[ChiDragon]

would you imagine that person to have a high storage of chi and jin or is it possible that this person has yet to develop internal power?

 

Jin is internal power already. No further development required.

[ssmith7]

So once you are using chi energy instead of muscle to move your limbs, you are expressing jin?

[DragonsNectar69k]

Don't make it soo complicated. "INTERNAL POWER" is a force that comes from within. There are forces in your body that happen naturally. The production of cells, semen, blood, etc. When you start to feel this inner 'power' it is simple you becoming aware of this hidden aspect of yourself, your consciousness being able to 'control' matter at will. It takes focus, concentration, and a open mind.

 

A good example is when a mother notices her child is in danger and is able to lift a car to help her child. She is thinking about whether or not she can lift the car, she simply does. Her consciousness has no time to think about whether she is strong enough to lift the car, she just knows that she has too, and so she does.

[Ish]

So once you are using chi energy instead of muscle to move your limbs, you are expressing jin?

 

Despite his name i personally advise you not to learn about Qi with chidragon.

 

If you want to talk about oxygen atp and muscles then he's the expert.

 

P.S. no offense to ChiDragon intended just calling it how i see it from my experience/understanding.

Edited May 22, 2013 by Ish

[voidisyinyang]

I can answer this from a qigong master specifically.

 

http://fulllotusqigong.blogspot.com/2012/10/maintaining-state-of-listening-but-not.html

 

Lots of quotes from Yan Xin qigong master who was at Shaolin.

 

At this point, one can even burn clothes merely by giving a look. ....When you acquire some qigong power, do not try to use it, or use it
rarely and cautiously. In this way, your qigong power will increase incrementally, and then, when the level of your qigong power is sufficiently elevated you will be able to accomplish great deeds. ....There is a saying by some ancient masters: "To learn martial arts without internal qigong, one will regret this for life. To learn internal qigong without martial arts, one will enjoy countless wonderful benefits." ... I interrupted, "You should do at least two thousand in a stretch!" I said just this one sentence while emitting quite strong qi to him.

[voidisyinyang]

So the person, after receiving qi from Yan Xin, was able to do something like ten times more exercise. Muscle power is stored electromagnetic energy but it is nothing compared to chi energy because chi energy is created from the parasympathetic relaxation energy. So you go into deep relaxation and then through synchronization of the paraysympathetic nervous system you then increase the electromagnetic energy.That energy then is stored in the organs of the body and the bones, etc. But the more the third eye opens then the more you can recharge your energy from external sources and if the third eye is fully open then you can recharge very fast to fill the body with the shen laser holographic energy. This energy can travel back in time to change the past and it can travel into the future and it travels through different dimensions, etc. to interact with spirits.....

 

 

[Maddie]

 

So the person, after receiving qi from Yan Xin, was able to do something like ten times more exercise. Muscle power is stored electromagnetic energy but it is nothing compared to chi energy because chi energy is created from the parasympathetic relaxation energy. So you go into deep relaxation and then through synchronization of the paraysympathetic nervous system you then increase the electromagnetic energy.That energy then is stored in the organs of the body and the bones, etc. But the more the third eye opens then the more you can recharge your energy from external sources and if the third eye is fully open then you can recharge very fast to fill the body with the shen laser holographic energy. This energy can travel back in time to change the past and it can travel into the future and it travels through different dimensions, etc. to interact with spirits.....

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The mentioning of the parasympathetic nervous system and muscles got me to wondering about something. So a couple weeks ago I was mentioning how I'd go out to school and feel drained. This week I've been noticing that I don't feel drained when I go out, but what I do notice is that the entire time I'm out in public my whole body feels tense even though I can't think of anything that's bothering me. I'm back home now and I can already feel my body loosening up. Is this some kind of subconscious reaction to constrict my channels to make it harder to loose my qi to people while at school?

[Ish]

No from my experience & opinion i would say its the tension and the cause behind the tension that is draining the energy rather than other people.

 

Make a genuine connection to the source and don't worry about clinging to the energy. This attitude will just limit you.

 

Big flow.

[Maddie]

Hmmm well what ever the reason this led to something else interesting. So to help myself relax a bit I did an hours long liver meditation. It felt like bliss while I was doing it. Odd thing is, is that afterwards I've been super reminiscent and remembering old memories and feeling old feelings.

 

I'd had this happen in the past when I'd do an organ meditation for a good length of time. I'm assuming its old stuck qi coming out.

[voidisyinyang]

Yeah memories are stored in the body holographically. So it's like a photo of light that is chemically stored in the body organs and so meditation then brings out the memories as an emotional healing. So your body relives the memory - not just a mental memory - but since you're meditating then you are reversing the memory storage chemically to heal the organ.

 

Yeah the tension -- it is energy being released to others because I quote in my article how Mantak Chia was tested by a physicist who showed Chia was rapidly switching from his parasympathetic to his sympathetic when Chia released the chi energy.

 

So he was tensing when he released the energy to others.

 

You can see that in the qigong master vid I posted - the JIang Feng who is lighting paper on fire and burning skin marks into people and you can hear him as he tenses his body to release the energy.

 

Jim McMillan said it feels like he is taking a shit -- so it is the diaphgram muscle being flexed which would then release that stored up parasympathetic energy to switch it to the sympathetic energy.

 

And so people can suck up your energy and then you react by tensing up.

 

So it maybe that relaxing is the best response as that enables recharging your energy more easily.

 

Like chunyi Lin says that actually the Tai Chi relaxed movements are more powerful than the tense physical martial arts training.

 

This is something to learn through experience but for me if I meditate enough without actually transmitting energy - at least there is a chi defense field that people can not directly sense - but provides a buffer of positive love energy.

 

People can feed off it but if you keep the love going then you can recharge it also before it gets totally depleted.

[Maddie]

Yeah memories are stored in the body holographically. So it's like a photo of light that is chemically stored in the body organs and so meditation then brings out the memories as an emotional healing. So your body relives the memory - not just a mental memory - but since you're meditating then you are reversing the memory storage chemically to heal the organ.

 

Yeah the tension -- it is energy being released to others because I quote in my article how Mantak Chia was tested by a physicist who showed Chia was rapidly switching from his parasympathetic to his sympathetic when Chia released the chi energy.

 

So he was tensing when he released the energy to others.

 

You can see that in the qigong master vid I posted - the JIang Feng who is lighting paper on fire and burning skin marks into people and you can hear him as he tenses his body to release the energy.

 

Jim McMillan said it feels like he is taking a shit -- so it is the diaphgram muscle being flexed which would then release that stored up parasympathetic energy to switch it to the sympathetic energy.

 

And so people can suck up your energy and then you react by tensing up.

 

So it maybe that relaxing is the best response as that enables recharging your energy more easily.

 

Like chunyi Lin says that actually the Tai Chi relaxed movements are more powerful than the tense physical martial arts training.

 

This is something to learn through experience but for me if I meditate enough without actually transmitting energy - at least there is a chi defense field that people can not directly sense - but provides a buffer of positive love energy.

 

People can feed off it but if you keep the love going then you can recharge it also before it gets totally depleted.

 

Interesting. It seems that one of the places I felt the most tension was in my diaphragm area, and it was like while I was in class it was impossible to relax, even though I was aware of it being tense.

 

The funny thing is about these memories and feelings coming up is that most of them are some how conflict related which I guess makes sense as it was a liver meditation I did. I suppose that this also explains some of the tension that I'm feeling as well.

 

Though I'm assuming the goal from a Taoist perspective the big (why do this in the first place) would be to let this stuff go so that I can get closer to the stillness that is the Tao?

Edited May 23, 2013 by dmattwads

[voidisyinyang]

Interesting. It seems that one of the places I felt the most tension was in my diaphragm area, and it was like while I was in class it was impossible to relax, even though I was aware of it being tense.

 

The funny thing is about these memories and feelings coming up is that most of them are some how conflict related which I guess makes sense as it was a liver meditation I did. I suppose that this also explains some of the tension that I'm feeling as well.

 

Though I'm assuming the goal from a Taoist perspective the big (why do this in the first place) would be to let this stuff go so that I can get closer to the stillness that is the Tao?

 

yeah converting the anger of the liver to wisdom.

 

So in the spring that means eating extra greens.

 

I have been harvesting dandelion greens and then I can pick the stems before they flower so no one gets peeved by having dandelion flowers ruining the monocultural grass death. haha.

 

I'm thinking I'll try the dandelion stem juice extract on a mole just as an experiment.

 

Anyway stinging nettles are coming in - that's what Milarepa lived off so his skin turned green. haha.

 

But yeah Chunyi Lin said how he used to get mad and then the light bulbs would break or one time his lawn mower started smoking. haha. But he said now he doesn't get mad like that and I think it happened after his heart stopped beating for over 2 hours and he was walking around fine - so that probably took him a lot deeper. He said how people said his healing was more powerful after that. I didn't know that happened to him but when I got the phone healing I noticed it was just a really deep heart healing - amazing.

Edited May 23, 2013 by pythagoreanfulllotus

[Maddie]

yeah converting the anger of the liver to wisdom.

 

So in the spring that means eating extra greens.

 

I have been harvesting dandelion greens and then I can pick the stems before they flower so no one gets peeved by having dandelion flowers ruining the monocultural grass death. haha.

 

I'm thinking I'll try the dandelion stem juice extract on a mole just as an experiment.

 

Anyway stinging nettles are coming in - that's what Milarepa lived off so his skin turned green. haha.

 

But yeah Chunyi Lin said how he used to get mad and then the light bulbs would break or one time his lawn mower started smoking. haha. But he said now he doesn't get mad like that and I think it happened after his heart stopped beating for over 2 hours and he was walking around fine - so that probably took him a lot deeper. He said how people said his healing was more powerful after that. I didn't know that happened to him but when I got the phone healing I noticed it was just a really deep heart healing - amazing.

 

Yea heart is what I'd been working on the past couple days before liver. I was doing heart to help me balance out desire and craving but what I noticed was as the heart craving and grasping began to lessen that is when I noticed the tension first begin. Then after some tension while doing heart meditation it would progress to anger cause as I was too see liver seemed to get first very angry and then depressed as I was letting heart desire go. I mean it was intense. At one point it got so bad that I closed my eyes and I had this mental image of an angry ape in a cage screaming and thrashing about haha.

 

Another funny thing that I noticed while working on liver is that it took me two hours to decide what to have for dinner haha, and its the wood element that is responsible for decision making and planning. I also found myself thinking "I should really get back into jujitsu" haha as if something in me wanted to fight. So it seems that all these archetypal liver attributes are really raising their head as I work on this.

 

Thinking back to that discussion a few days ago about the liver/hun/ethereal soul being the subconscious and the heart/shen being the conscious, I'm wondering if my subconscious is protesting me removing one of its favorite attachments (being the heart desire)?

[voidisyinyang]

Yea heart is what I'd been working on the past couple days before liver. I was doing heart to help me balance out desire and craving but what I noticed was as the heart craving and grasping began to lessen that is when I noticed the tension first begin. Then after some tension while doing heart meditation it would progress to anger cause as I was too see liver seemed to get first very angry and then depressed as I was letting heart desire go. I mean it was intense. At one point it got so bad that I closed my eyes and I had this mental image of an angry ape in a cage screaming and thrashing about haha.

 

Another funny thing that I noticed while working on liver is that it took me two hours to decide what to have for dinner haha, and its the wood element that is responsible for decision making and planning. I also found myself thinking "I should really get back into jujitsu" haha as if something in me wanted to fight. So it seems that all these archetypal liver attributes are really raising their head as I work on this.

 

Thinking back to that discussion a few days ago about the liver/hun/ethereal soul being the subconscious and the heart/shen being the conscious, I'm wondering if my subconscious is protesting me removing one of its favorite attachments (being the heart desire)?

 

So the slowing breathing of the lungs turns the sadness to courage which then combines with the heart passion to create compassion.

 

The liver powers the heart but if it is anger then it can create dangerous heart energy.

 

Yeah I was just reading Gary Clyman emphasizing the sphincter flexing and squeezing and the PC muscle contraction - to "pump the jing" energy.

 

The thing is to make sure to build up the kidney energy and then this builds up the liver energy and then it builds up the heart energy to open up the third eye more.

 

So I think the tension of the sphincter, PC, and diaphgram is good to hold in and build up the jing energy.

 

I think the liver energy for me is when your chi heart energy is getting "deconverted" or pulled back down to the liver - and so you are trying to reverse this to sublimate it or purify it back to the heart.

 

It's about the higher frequency of energy -- you do it in meditation but then it gets pulled back down by people around us and the compression of the lower body to "pump the jing" back up to the liver.

 

So for example cholesterol can increase testosterone or it can increase cortisol - depending on the emotional energy.

 

This is a HUGE issue for me. I am surrounded by people addicted to stress and so -- this is just as Sapolsky proves with his Alpha Baboons who increase their dopamine by attacking the Beta Baboons - in other words by putting other baboons (people) down - this is anger displacement that relieves the stress of the Alpha Baboons.

 

And so there is dopamine addiction in our culture with everyone wanting to be an Alpha that achieves it by stomping on other people.

 

 

 

typical high-intensity Peak Fitness routine might look like:

• Warm up for three minutes
• Exercise as hard and fast as you can for 30 seconds. You should feel like you couldn't possibly go on another few seconds
• Recover at a slow to moderate pace for 90 seconds
• Repeat the high intensity exercise and recovery 7 more times

 

http://lewrockwell.com/mercola/mercola213.html

 

a lot of stress, your body releases high levels of the stress hormone cortisol. This hormone actually blocks the effects of testosterone,⁶ presumably because, from a biological standpoint, testosterone-associated behaviors (mating, competing, aggression) may have lowered your chances of survival in an emergency (hence, the “fight or flight” response is dominant, courtesy of cortisol).

In the modern world, chronic stress, and subsequently elevated levels of cortisol, could mean that testosterone’s effects are blocked in the long term, which is what you want to avoid.

 

Yeah so cholesterol -- good fats and exercise versus stress -- the liver wisdom might very well be dopamine into serotonin....

 

 

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http://curezone.com/forums/am.asp?i=23267

 

Yeah on the dopamine diet versus the serotonin diet..... which obviously shows for the liver.

 

For me the cycle is very much into the oxytocin heart energy -- so it sounds like you going from dopamine to serotonin to oxytocin but then getting pulled back down to serotonin and wanting more dopamine to build it back up -- the craving for exercise which increases testosterone which then increases dopamine again.

 

Yeah like you said - the heart has to go past the desire even of the oxytocin - the mind has to be empty - in order to really increase the chi energy and to keep building up the parasympathetic energy cycle.

 

This is VERY difficult in my experience when surrounded by people addicted to stress and so playing the whole dopamine dominance game -- which increases my cortisol instead of turing the dopamine to serotonin. So then I have to reverse the stress cortisol back into dopamine and then into serotonin and oxytocin. I can do that in a 2 hour meditation session but it depends on the cortisol levels - may take a bit longer. That is not even STORING or building up energy! haha. It's just reversing blockages.

[Maddie]

So the slowing breathing of the lungs turns the sadness to courage which then combines with the heart passion to create compassion.

 

The liver powers the heart but if it is anger then it can create dangerous heart energy.

 

Yeah I was just reading Gary Clyman emphasizing the sphincter flexing and squeezing and the PC muscle contraction - to "pump the jing" energy.

 

The thing is to make sure to build up the kidney energy and then this builds up the liver energy and then it builds up the heart energy to open up the third eye more.

 

So I think the tension of the sphincter, PC, and diaphgram is good to hold in and build up the jing energy.

 

I think the liver energy for me is when your chi heart energy is getting "deconverted" or pulled back down to the liver - and so you are trying to reverse this to sublimate it or purify it back to the heart.

 

It's about the higher frequency of energy -- you do it in meditation but then it gets pulled back down by people around us and the compression of the lower body to "pump the jing" back up to the liver.

 

So for example cholesterol can increase testosterone or it can increase cortisol - depending on the emotional energy.

 

This is a HUGE issue for me. I am surrounded by people addicted to stress and so -- this is just as Sapolsky proves with his Alpha Baboons who increase their dopamine by attacking the Beta Baboons - in other words by putting other baboons (people) down - this is anger displacement that relieves the stress of the Alpha Baboons.

 

And so there is dopamine addiction in our culture with everyone wanting to be an Alpha that achieves it by stomping on other people.

 

 

 

http://lewrockwell.com/mercola/mercola213.html

 

 

Yeah so cholesterol -- good fats and exercise versus stress -- the liver wisdom might very well be dopamine into serotonin....

 

 

http://curezone.com/forums/am.asp?i=23267

 

Yeah on the dopamine diet versus the serotonin diet..... which obviously shows for the liver.

 

For me the cycle is very much into the oxytocin heart energy -- so it sounds like you going from dopamine to serotonin to oxytocin but then getting pulled back down to serotonin and wanting more dopamine to build it back up -- the craving for exercise which increases testosterone which then increases dopamine again.

 

Yeah like you said - the heart has to go past the desire even of the oxytocin - the mind has to be empty - in order to really increase the chi energy and to keep building up the parasympathetic energy cycle.

 

This is VERY difficult in my experience when surrounded by people addicted to stress and so playing the whole dopamine dominance game -- which increases my cortisol instead of turing the dopamine to serotonin. So then I have to reverse the stress cortisol back into dopamine and then into serotonin and oxytocin. I can do that in a 2 hour meditation session but it depends on the cortisol levels - may take a bit longer. That is not even STORING or building up energy! haha. It's just reversing blockages.

 

No doubt, the existence of monasteries becomes more obvious to me daily haha, well that and the infamous Taoist hermit in the cave lol. As I was reading your last post it caused me to piece together today's chain of events.

 

So before school I had a wonderful two hour meditation which seemed to go by very fast, I was so blissed out. It was half Samatha and half Vipassana with a nice qigong organ session at the end to tidy it all up.

 

So I head off to class feeling lovely. So I sit down at one of the tables before class starts and one of those girls who I mentioned talk to me a lot at the clinic comes in and puts her hand on my back and then sits down next to me. At this point I'm thinking nothing about it. Then class starts and she keeps constantly looking at my notes and asking me about something she missed that the professor said. Gradually I notice myself tensing up lol. By the end of class I'm so tense it hurts but I can't relax lol.

 

But yea that stuff you posted about the hormones was very interesting cause it did feel like I was in that fight or flight mode but there was absolutely no obvious reason to be so. It wasn't until I got home and did that liver meditation that I mentioned that I began to feel myself start to relax again. Also an interesting insight about the liver wanting to deconvert the heart energy, like a reverse generating cycle. So I think doing the liver meditation helped get the generating cycle going in the right direction again.

 

One other thing I did that seemed to help was I did a few of the "cold draws" that Chia talks about drawing the jing from the testes up the back of the MCO to the crown. It seemed to help me to relax a little too.

 

Oh one last thing (I reread your post) and you talked about stressed people around us drawing our energy down. Well that girl that sat next to me after class as we were walking out was telling me how stressed out she had been lately haha. So good call!

[voidisyinyang]

No doubt, the existence of monasteries becomes more obvious to me daily haha, well that and the infamous Taoist hermit in the cave lol. As I was reading your last post it caused me to piece together today's chain of events.

 

So before school I had a wonderful two hour meditation which seemed to go by very fast, I was so blissed out. It was half Samatha and half Vipassana with a nice qigong organ session at the end to tidy it all up.

 

So I head off to class feeling lovely. So I sit down at one of the tables before class starts and one of those girls who I mentioned talk to me a lot at the clinic comes in and puts her hand on my back and then sits down next to me. At this point I'm thinking nothing about it. Then class starts and she keeps constantly looking at my notes and asking me about something she missed that the professor said. Gradually I notice myself tensing up lol. By the end of class I'm so tense it hurts but I can't relax lol.

 

But yea that stuff you posted about the hormones was very interesting cause it did feel like I was in that fight or flight mode but there was absolutely no obvious reason to be so. It wasn't until I got home and did that liver meditation that I mentioned that I began to feel myself start to relax again. Also an interesting insight about the liver wanting to deconvert the heart energy, like a reverse generating cycle. So I think doing the liver meditation helped get the generating cycle going in the right direction again.

 

One other thing I did that seemed to help was I did a few of the "cold draws" that Chia talks about drawing the jing from the testes up the back of the MCO to the crown. It seemed to help me to relax a little too.

 

Oh one last thing (I reread your post) and you talked about stressed people around us drawing our energy down. Well that girl that sat next to me after class as we were walking out was telling me how stressed out she had been lately haha. So good call!

 

 

That's why I like the Taiwanese dramas because if some swarmy female came up to give a male creepy back rubs - the Taiwanese females in the drama would call it like it is:

 

PERV!!

 

haha. Taiwanese dramas actually call the females PERVS when they act out of lust.

 

I love it!!

 

But like I said - things are already changing and that new Amber Kuo drama called "Love Forward" indicates a change -- so I didn't even continue watching that. haha.

[ChiDragon]

So once you are using chi energy instead of muscle to move your limbs, you are expressing jin?

 

I wouldn't go fight a tiger with this notion in mind.

Edited May 23, 2013 by ChiDragon

[ChiDragon]

Don't make it soo complicated. "INTERNAL POWER" is a force that comes from within. There are forces in your body that happen naturally. The production of cells, semen, blood, etc. When you start to feel this inner 'power' it is simple you becoming aware of this hidden aspect of yourself, your consciousness being able to 'control' matter at will. It takes focus, concentration, and a open mind.

 

A good example is when a mother notices her child is in danger and is able to lift a car to help her child. She is thinking about whether or not she can lift the car, she simply does. Her consciousness has no time to think about whether she is strong enough to lift the car, she just knows that she has too, and so she does.

 

This was only happens once under extreme panic situation. It does not occur all the time.

 

 

Edited to add: the word "not".

Edited May 23, 2013 by ChiDragon

[Maddie]

 

I wouldn't go fight a tiger with this notion in mind.

Ideally qi cultivation leads to greater wisdom, so I'd like to think that if I was going to a death brawl with a Tiger I'd remember to bring a gun lol

[voidisyinyang]

Ideally qi cultivation leads to greater wisdom, so I'd like to think that if I was going to a death brawl with a Tiger I'd remember to bring a gun lol

 

Funny because Phra Achran Mun, the most famous Thai meditation master - he purposely put his monks in Tiger-infested forest.

 

Why? He said fear of death enabled the best samadhi and then he used his energy to protect the monks from the Tigers - he could communicate with the tigers to keep the peace. haha.

[ChiDragon]

So once you are using chi energy instead of muscle to move your limbs, you are expressing jin?

 

Jin cannot be expressed by anyone. It has to be developed by long time practice. Tai Ji practitioners are experts in jin expression. It is something that need to be experienced rather than just verbal expression.

[Maddie]

Still finding the Liver to be very relevant to work on today, same type of stuff as yesterday.

[ChiDragon]

Yes, the liver stores the glucose for the generation of "Jin".

[Maddie]

Yes, the liver stores the glucose for the generation of "Jin".

True, but I was referring to a more psycho/emotional aspect of it.