Zazen and open eyes

[joeblast]

always looked like a 3d gas interaction model to me

[Rara]

Opening the eyes a bit can be good to let some light in to avoid "turbid" sleepy heavy type energy that has no awareness. Opening the eyes to focus on a point can help be sure that you're still "there," in my experience. However, closed eyes allows for more awareness of internal things, closing off other senses (such as when playing music). So they both have benefits depending on what your aim/goal is. Open eyes is better for "presence" awareness, closed eyes for "internal" awareness (though internal and external may become less and less separate too).

 

Looks like I'm going to be practicing both ways from now on

[hydrogen]

Some say those are prana or vitality globules. Just like I said a while back, it's like how all those particles come together when Goku prepares the spirit bomb.

 

When I look at the sky long enough, the astral tube appears. Always amazes me at how it looks like the time vortex from Dr. Who.

 

I didn't know it's called astral tube. What can you do with the astral tube? Thanks.

[Spotless]

Typically in Zazen the eyes are looking down and a few feet in front of you.

 

The main reason for the eyes open is to stay out of trance.

 

Attention is on the Hara / LDT

 

The rest of this stuff is interesting but of little importance if by importance one is speaking of transcending the self.

 

The practice of engineering and "doing" is an extension of what one is already doing in the monkey mind. Bringing the monkey mind to a higher level is a bit of a joke. Monkey minding your spiritual growth can occupy one for many lifetimes - and you may even achieve a vast number of abilities all of which will jail you by raising your monkey mind to a higher status than its already incredibly bafooned level.

Edited June 29, 2015 by Spotless

[Spotless]

The chin should be slightly lowered and tucked.

 

Overall their are very few basic engineering concerns.

Posture is important, breathing is important, wakefulness is important.

Shortcuts such as trance once addicted to are very hard to break and result in long term setbacks and little can be done to persuade those addicted - they will defend their delusions because of great evidence to suggest otherwise.

 

Eyes open can greatly help to bring neutrality and as expounded earlier, it brings with it both the outside and the inside.

 

Exercising the engineering mind is more often than not precisely what you do not want to do.

Edited June 29, 2015 by Spotless

[woodcarver]

I love zazen. You have to keep your eyes open because closed eyes is just kind of an escape. Sometimes my eyes used to freak out or shut by themselves but I stopped it. I don't know why that happens but whatever, moving on...

 

Practicing with others will pressure you into keeping a good form.

[Michael Sternbach]

Yo!

 

So I fancied experimenting. I usually meditate in full lotus these days with my eyes shut in addition to my regular kung fu practice. However, after learning the techniques of Zazen, I couldn't help but resist trying out this new form. 

 

The practice is fairly similar to what I usually do...counting breaths to calm the mind but I usually then trail off onto what i need to focus on for that particular session. In Zazen, the counting is the sole focus and there is one major difference - the eyes are half open (as advised by many practitioners/teachers) and focussed at the floor roughly three feet in front.

 

I found this extremely hard! All of a sudden, there are so many more distractions present that I am needing to avoid such as my eyelids flickering and going cross eyed.

 

I guess this is the same as my kung fu forms, but at least in martial arts I'm moving so the temptation for the mind to wander is less.

 

What are your experiences with half-open eyes? What are your opinions on Zazen? I would like to know more, and if you recommend half-open eyes as a good form of training concentration, mindfulness, and all round meditation 

 

Hi Rara,

 

Since I have been practising Zazen for some time, including with a Swiss Zen monk and a Japanese Zen master, I hope that I can offer you some advice regarding your questions.

 

First off, when learning Zazen from a book, it is a common misunderstanding that you had to somehow force your flickering and watery eyes to remain half open. The story is, if you look down on the floor a little ahead of you, your eyes will naturally and effortlessly be half closed as any observer would confirm!

 

Secondly, counting breaths is a beginner's practice to keep the mind focussed, and many instructors don't even teach it in the first place. Of course, you do want to make sure that you are breathing in the lower Dan-tien (Tanden, in Japanese) and that your body is relaxed, yet upright - "connecting Heaven and Earth". Other than that, you simply let whatever is there in your mind pass through it without either suppressing or clinging to it. With sufficient practice, you will be able to enter the state of "no mind" or mushin, yet remain fully aware of your surroundings.

 

Zazen is an excellent exercise, especially for a martial artist. Practising it will enhance your grounding and balance, both internally and externally, as well as your intuition.

 

But I suggest that you build up gradually and don't do it to the extent that your legs start dying off.

 

Hope this helps.

 

Michael

Edited June 30, 2015 by Michael Sternbach

[Spotless]

I love zazen. You have to keep your eyes open because closed eyes is just kind of an escape. Sometimes my eyes used to freak out or shut by themselves but I stopped it. I don't know why that happens but whatever, moving on...

 

Practicing with others will pressure you into keeping a good form.

 

You may wish not to be so brutal on those practicing with eyes closed. Far more practice is with eyes closed than with eyes open.

Nearly everything you read of the metaphysical nature outside of Zen are from those practicing with eyes closed.

 

The far bigger factor is the method of meditation and if one remains in physical space out of trance or if one enters trance.

Trance is not inherently bad and it has many uses - but in general meditation it diminishes the positive effects to nearly obliterate them.

[blue eyed snake]

I do not meditate that much lately and most of it standing up. Until now mostly with eyes closed, lately I find that my eyes sometimes just stay open. In a friendlyfeeling halfopen state. Different experience, good, but a year ago I would not have gotten out of of it what i get out of it now.

 

Same with trance, it has helped me a lot with things/ issues, but it seems to change now.

 

I'm happy with a teacher that gives us just simple instructions, just helping us along right where we are, without fixed ' rules'

[ChiForce]

Well, I normally meditate with my eyes closed because I meditate at night before sleep and too I meditate in my sleep.  With half eyes open or close, do you need to blink? Should you even blink?   

[Miffymog]

I've spent a bit of time meditating both with the eyes shut, while following the breath, and with the eyes open when practising 'Silent Illumination'. For me, I have definitely preferred eyes open. The reason is because I feel I've have been in a 'good' state (whatever that might be) if I can get up from the meditation and continue my day as if I've not even been meditating, ie, I Iike it if I can take the open aware state I've been in during meditation straight in to my everyday life. If my eyes have been closed, then this is not so easy as I need to 'awaken' my self a bit.

 

Bit its all down to experimentation and personal preference.