free will is BS

[Vmarco]

I have no idea why you put up the video. I have no idea what Don was talking about. He seems to be a happy guy and loves his drum.

 

The emotion is highly desireable in my opinion. I'm interested in A.I. (Artificial Intelligence). We still don't know how to generate "human" emotions when we design A.I.

 

Our creator figured it out.

 

I don't trust Buddha. He promised he'd get everyone in his promised land of bliss. I'm not there. He's either a slakcer or he's lying.

 

Only my own experience is gunuine and real to me. All others are just input to me and needs to be processed.

 

He's a happy guy because (as he says) he recognizes the need to let go of one's human-ness.

 

And you are misinformed about Buddha,....Buddha purportedly said that he discovered something profound and luminous beyond all concepts. He tried to communicate that something with words, but few understood. So he said (Kalachakra) there shall be a Holy War in the future, when people will realize the dishonesty of their belief systems,...and in that time, the future buddha, Maitreya will arise, and bring thousands to enlightenment.

 

In the meantime,...nirvana, or flip side of samsara, is fully available,...but it cannot be uncovered while clinging to your human-ness for your identity.

Edited May 30, 2013 by Vmarco

[hydrogen]

In the meantime,...nirvana, or flip side of samsara, is fully available,...but it cannot be uncovered while clinging to your human-ness for your identity.

 

Then fu*# nirvanna. I stay human, And I'd create a brand new world which is better and easier to get in.

 

You can do whatever you like.

Edited May 30, 2013 by hydrogen

[Vmarco]

I have no idea why you put up the video. I have no idea what Don was talking about. He seems to be a happy guy and loves his drum.

 

The emotion is highly desireable in my opinion. I'm interested in A.I. (Artificial Intelligence). We still don't know how to generate "human" emotions when we design A.I.

 

Our creator figured it out.

 

I don't trust Buddha. He promised he'd get everyone in his promised land of bliss. I'm not there. He's either a slakcer or he's lying.

 

Only my own experience is gunuine and real to me. All others are just input to me and needs to be processed.

 

Why the fuxk would you want to give human emotions to robots? You want to create a SciFi race of Cylons? Human-ness is the problem,...not the solution.

 

As for your imagined experiences...experience born of belief, can only be experienced through the condition of that belief. Your posts indicate to me, that you have not once in this lifetime, had a direct experience.

 

An important Lojong says, look at everything you perceive as a dream. The problem is that you believe the dream is genuine,..as in real. LOL

[Vmarco]

Then fu*# nirvanna. I stay human. You can do whatever you like.

 

And fuxk Lao Tzu,...right? So why are you here?

 

Lao Tzu said, "Recognize that eveything you see and think (6 senses) is a falsehood, an illusion, a veil over the truth...the ego is a monkey catapulting through the jungle; totally fascinated by the realm of the senses....if anyone threaten it, it actually fears for its life. Let this monkey go. Let the senses go."

 

If you want real, genuine happiness, let your human-ness go.

Edited May 30, 2013 by Vmarco

[hydrogen]

If you want real, genuine happiness, let your human-ness go.

 

So you're a real, genuine happy guy?

[Stosh]

_{Just an opinion}

_{To give AI emotions they need to have some bias like self preservation}

_{and a means to calculate its continued probabilities with uncertainty.}

 

_{One would do it,}

_{to learn about what constitutes human emotions or}

_{for drawing conclusions about how to regard non human organisms}

_{like chimpanzees. (as grist for the mill)}

 

_{Either that or do it to create a lifelike race of slaves to do our bidding}

_{and feed our rapacious egos.}

 

 

_{I keep reading that 'why are you here?' question in various threads}

_{Not always directed at me ,,}

_{It seems to represent a disconnect of understanding the alternative}

_{world views , motivations , path of others.}

 

_{Besides that, it sounds rather rude.}

_{If the person who said that, really gave a darn}

_{why the other person was involved , they could ask less generalized questions.}

 

_{Like how one approaches the apparent contradiction or quandary posed}

_{by their expressed attitudes versus Taoist dogma.}

_{If being rude is just someones 'way' and}

_{that one, thinks it demonstrates honesty and compassion ,}

_{thats fine but ,,I could ask the same question "Why are you here?"}

_{because those arent Taoist ' virtues' ,(as I see it) , either ,(not directly anyhow)}

[Marblehead]

An important Lojong says, look at everything you perceive as a dream. The problem is that you believe the dream is genuine,..as in real. LOL

Important for whom, might I ask?

[Marblehead]

_{I could ask the same question "Why are you here?"}

_{because those arent Taoist ' virtues' ,(as I see it) , either ,(not directly anyhow)}

You are right. Doing so would not be virtuous from a Taoist point of view.

[Vmarco]

So you're a real, genuine happy guy?

 

A Buddhist monk asked me yesterday, "you look so happy,...is it because you are here?" No, I responded, I'm happy everywhere. He was a young monk, although the head of a program at the university,...and he looked puzzled by my response. There are two happy's I said. One happy is the opposite of sad,...it comes from distractions and diversions of seeing things as they are not,...the other happy, does not have an opposite,...it sees things as they are.

 

Theravadan Buddhists are not into waking up, nor seeing things as they are,...their's is more of a preparatory discipline for a future life. Their happy appears to come by way of distractions and diversions,...in their case, intellectual study,...thus the monk barely had a clue as to what I was talking about,...nevertheless, we continued for another hour.

 

As Jed McKenna said,...there are no Butterfly experts among Caterpillars, although many Caterpillars profess to be.

 

If you want to understand Butterflies, you must be a Butterfly. To be a Butterfly, you must not cling to any Caterpillarness,...including the idea that your enlightenment is for some future time. There is no time. And what is perceived as time, is merely one thing.

 

Just as you will NEVER understand Who you are, until you realize When you are,...likewise, you will NEVER understand Why you are here, until you realize When you are here. The questions of Who, Why, What For, are futile without the When.

 

Only through When, is there an awareness of the Suchness of everything.

Edited May 30, 2013 by Vmarco

[Vmarco]

Important for whom, might I ask?

 

Important for anyone wishing to uncover bodhicitta. The Lojong: look at everything you perceive as a dream....is called an Absolute Bodhicitta proverb, because through it, bodhicitta can be directly realized.

[Maddie]

Theravadan Buddhists are not into waking up, nor seeing things as they are,...their's is more of a preparatory discipline for a future life. Their happy appears to come by way of distractions and diversions,...in their case, intellectual study,...thus the monk barely had a clue as to what I was talking about,...nevertheless, we continued for another hour.

This does not strike me to be the case with Theravada at all, Ajahn Braham seems to be very much into waking up and seeing things as they actually are.

[Marblehead]

Important for anyone wishing to uncover bodhicitta. The Lojong: look at everything you perceive as a dream....is called an Absolute Bodhicitta proverb, because through it, bodhicitta can be directly realized.

Okay. No thank you. But thanks, really.

[idiot_stimpy]

Do you have free will if you have been mind controlled?

[idiot_stimpy]

If you haven't been told you have been hypnostised, how would you know?

[Marblehead]

Do you have free will if you have been mind controlled?

Actually, you would because mind control is limited by certain keying factors. When keyed, no, no free will, but if not keyed then I think free will would still remain.

[Marblehead]

If you haven't been told you have been hypnostised, how would you know?

You wouldn't know.

[idiot_stimpy]

You wouldn't know.

 

scary

[silent thunder]

Seems to me, choice is minimal. There is some, but, to me, it exists within powerful conditions that shape it.

So powerful that, to me, it seems that the apparent power of individual choice is negligible.

 

Choice and free will, to me, seems to suggest power. The power to 'do something'. Make a decision and follow it out.

But what are the underlying conditions that support and shape any decision? This to me holds the key to ferreting out how much I really choose anything.

 

If we choose our parents, then I think we have some real choice about our life pattern/experience.

 

Otherwise, genetic influence/karmic influence, geographic/environmental/social/political/familial/religious-non religious influences carry so much more power in the process and formation of the underlying causality of any choice, that it, to me, renders the idea of individual exertion of power in a choice, a reflexive action, rather than any kind of intended individual expression of power.

 

If we choose our parents I think we have some serious influence on the pattern of our life. If not, then, for me, the conditions are really the dominant factor, the causality of any decision we make, rendering any perception of personal power rather impotent from the view of the self.

 

My old perception of choice has spiraled outward through my perceived awareness of the spontaneous interaction of conditions known as the universe.

[nine tailed fox]

its funny

 

but when i was browsing tao bum, an idea just struck me

 

if there is only one truth which is Tao

 

and even our identity the thing called self is illusion than this automatically makes anything related to that identity also an illusion

 

so our will which we attach to our identity that we are special and we have will to choose is also an illusion

 

just like our identity is mix and match of our thoughts and beliefs

 

our will is also mix and match of influences from other sources and all

Edited May 31, 2013 by nine tailed fox

[Marblehead]

scary

Indeed. American television used to do that in the 1950s. A law was passed to prohibit it.

[Marblehead]

Choice and free will, to me, seems to suggest power. The power to 'do something'. Make a decision and follow it out.

But what are the underlying conditions that support and shape any decision? This to me holds the key to ferreting out how much I really choose anything.

While I won't disagree with you, I would suggest that until we test our limits we never truely know how much power we really have. Yes, doing the testing takes a lot of work and produces many failures. If a person fears failure they won't do the testing.

[Marblehead]

its funny

 

but when i was browsing tao bum, an idea just struck me

 

if there is only one truth which is Tao

 

and even our identity the thing called self is illusion than this automatically makes anything related to that identity also an illusion

 

so our will which we attach to our identity that we are special and we have will to choose is also an illusion

 

just like our identity is mix and match of our thoughts and beliefs

 

our will is also mix and match of influences from other sources and all

Hehehe. I see the Buddhist influences are taking control of you. Don't give in to those nihilistic thoughts!

[Stosh]

Illusion , what is it?

its stuff one thinks-feels to be true, but that stuff cant be substantiated

by others or 'proven by material conditions'.

Same as for a magic show, or mirage

 

Is it news to you that your life experience is personal? you think-feel it?

and that you cant actually 'prove' any of that thinking feeling experience ?

 

So there is no reason to be discomfited by the idea that the world you grok is illusion

but what you can grok , is that there is no objective perspective of certitude on which one could

"hang a hat"

[Marblehead]

Oh, I have a few certitudes.

[idiot_stimpy]

If it is seen from the intellect, then there is certitudes.

 

Now even if I say there is no certitudes, then I am certain that there are no certitudes.

 

This is the dilemma, and paradox of this level of mind.

 

The language used to form these certitudes is inherited. Certitudes built ontop of other certitudes, until a giant tower is erected inside the mind.

 

There are those who actively seek for a technology to destroy the towers inside of them.