Extraordinary meridian "divergent branches"?

[XiaoYaoYou]

Hi Taobums Community ~

 

I was wondering if anyone out there has experienced this or heard about it...

 

In my qigong practice, I’ve been working with postural daoyin training working with rooting into the earth and allowing the free-flow of Qi through my body, & exploring optimal balance of my structure (physically and energetically). I’ve been working a lot also with beating and drumming the Qi, and also the microcosmic orbit.

 

The two experiences that I’m wondering if anyone has heard about (I’m an acupuncturist and this isn't really the way the Ren and Du meridians are described in the textbooks... well, the Du meridian is, somewhat, but not exactly in this way):

 

1. Focusing on the area above the perineum causes the Ren meridian to light up along the surface of the body. If I then focus on the area above the perineum and fill it with energy, the Ren meridian will go in an arc upward, from area just above the perineum out away from the body in a half circle, pouring into the third eye, filling the upper dantien with energy.
2. In wuji posture, if I pull my head back a little while looking slightly down, so that my sinuses move into the field of the taiji pole (I’ve been a student of Jerry Alan Johnson’s system, and he talks of the taiji pole… not sure if it’s in other systems), and if I focus on stretching Du-16, it will create a circle of energy that runs from Du-20 (the vertex of the head) through the sinuses, back to Du-16 (where neck meets occiput) and back up to Du-20, circling around and around, filling the upper dantien with energy.

 

Curious if anyone knows about this… These things are not in my textbooks and my qigong teacher didn’t seem to know much about it either. Maybe it’s just the way my energy is shifting as I explore my own healing process, but I’m wondering if anyone else has heard of these things. Please share if you have experienced this, or if you’ve heard of this ~ perhaps a qigong system or teacher talks about this?

 

Thanks so much everyone!

 

[Maddie]

Hey XiaoYao ... your name makes me think of Xiao Yao Wan haha. Anyways I wish I could offer more info for you, but I do know what you mean about acupuncture text books being somewhat limited on this topic.

 

I have read some of Jerry Johnson's Medical Qigong books as our library has all the volumes and they are interesting. It was from him that I also heard of the taiji pole. I've not heard ot the specific technique that your are mentioning though, but I have noticed something similar in practice.

 

My main approach to things is a Buddhist one, but its interesting practicing Buddhist meditation with knowledge of TCM because most Buddhists I know and have met don't really know much about it. But anyways I've observed constantly that as I sit in meditation that almost every single time that I feel the qi rise to my upper dan tien and my ears clog up and I feel sensation in the GB12 and SJ 17-18 area as well as a popping feeling in the bridge of my nose just under Yintang.

[XiaoYaoYou]

Yeah, the name for Xiao Yao Wan comes from Xiao Yao You, the title of the 1st chapter of Zhuang Zi. The formula helps create the physical and energetic requirements for the state of mind of Xiao Yao You ~ "free and easy wandering". I love the formula and the state of mind.

 

With the popping you mention, it sounds similar to what I experienced -- it felt somewhat like I had been punched in the nose, this kind of intense feeling in the sinuses under Yintang. It felt like it needed to come in and back into the line of the taiji pole, and when I did that, the circle of energy going around to Du-16 and Du-20 started.

 

Thanks for commenting, dmattwads!

[hydrogen]

I'm not a Qi Gong expert. I don't have any teacher. So take my word with caution.

 

From my personal experience, one can run qi from any two active points. The qi goes back and forth between the points. If done correctly, the qi will become stronger and faster. The path connecting the two points is alos effected by the Qi movement.

 

If one has three active Qi points, one can move the qi in a circle along the three points. If one run the Qi fast enough, when the Qi head catches on the tail, it'd run automatically by itself. Of course, one can have more active Qi point along the circle.

 

There are so many Qi points in the body, the combination is limitless. Some path are easier than others.

 

So long you feel right, then it's OK to experiment.

 

Good progress. You seem to have good control of your Qi.

[hydrogen]

 

XiaoYaoYou, on 30 May 2013 - 19:25, said:

2. In wuji posture, if I pull my head back a little while looking slightly down, so that my sinuses move into the field of the taiji pole (I’ve been a student of Jerry Alan Johnson’s system, and he talks of the taiji pole… not sure if it’s in other systems), and if I focus on stretching Du-16, it will create a circle of energy that runs from Du-20 (the vertex of the head) through the sinuses, back to Du-16 (where neck meets occiput) and back up to Du-20, circling around and around, filling the upper dantien with energy.

 

I was attempting to mimic this movement, When you do this, does this also open the occiuput?

 

There is a "pump" at Jade pillow (Du-16). I think she activated it.

 

Master Mantak Chia recommended Crane Neck to open the cranial pump.

 

 

I just tried it. It's more like --->Jade pillow (du-16) -- ->crown (Du-20) ---> third eye circle. I think it's a good circulation of qi. I don't know if the sinuses have anything to do with it except for alignment purpose.

 

Again, I have no teacher. Don't trust my word.

Edited June 4, 2013 by hydrogen

[joeblast]

you have 16 & 20 backwards

 

the sinuses may or may not, but I havent had seasonal allergies since learning red phoenix back in 2007 - even if its just because it gets opened daily and nothing seems to stick. I can feel the mechanism get not as efficient if I slack on cultivating it.

[XiaoYaoYou]

Hello

 

I was attempting to mimic this movement, When you do this, does this also open the occiput?

Hi Rainbowvein,

 

I've been offline a few days, and just saw your comment. For me, when I do this, it does physically open the occiput, however it doesn't feel like an energetic opening in the occiput specifically. It feels more like a third eye and sinuses opening, if we're talking about an energetic opening.

 

The way it all happened was first there was a Yin Qiao opening, which extended out through Kidney-1 acupoint, and extended up through Du-20 at the vertex of the head. After a few months, there was the Ren meridian opening that I mentioned, and then a few weeks after that, the circuit in the head opened up. I can definitely echo Hydrogen, in a comment above: I'm not an expert (by far) and I don't have a teacher in this. I would like to be able to use this information with my patients, however, and for me to find a teacher in this would probably be a good idea.

 

Thanks joeblast, hydrogen and rainbowvein for the reflections!

[gendao]

There are so many Qi points in the body, the combination is limitless. Some path are easier than others.

Does anyone know how the extra acupoints tie in with the meridians?

 

(EX) Extra Acupuncture Points

Extra Points

74 extra foot acupoints were discovered and put into therapeutic use

 

[ChiDragon]

If we correlate the meridians to our nerves on the hands, we would have:
1. The blue meridian corresponds to the Radial nerve
2. The orange meridian corresponds to the Median nerve
3. The red meridian corresponds to the ulnar nerve.

Edited June 6, 2013 by ChiDragon

[Spotless]

Hi Taobums Community ~

 

I was wondering if anyone out there has experienced this or heard about it...

 

In my qigong practice, Ive been working with postural daoyin training working with rooting into the earth and allowing the free-flow of Qi through my body, & exploring optimal balance of my structure (physically and energetically). Ive been working a lot also with beating and drumming the Qi, and also the microcosmic orbit.

 

The two experiences that Im wondering if anyone has heard about (Im an acupuncturist and this isn't really the way the Ren and Du meridians are described in the textbooks... well, the Du meridian is, somewhat, but not exactly in this way):

 

 

• Focusing on the area above the perineum causes the Ren meridian to light up along the surface of the body. If I then focus on the area above the perineum and fill it with energy, the Ren meridian will go in an arc upward, from area just above the perineum out away from the body in a half circle, pouring into the third eye, filling the upper dantien with energy.
• In wuji posture, if I pull my head back a little while looking slightly down, so that my sinuses move into the field of the taiji pole (Ive been a student of Jerry Alan Johnsons system, and he talks of the taiji pole not sure if its in other systems), and if I focus on stretching Du-16, it will create a circle of energy that runs from Du-20 (the vertex of the head) through the sinuses, back to Du-16 (where neck meets occiput) and back up to Du-20, circling around and around, filling the upper dantien with energy.

Curious if anyone knows about this These things are not in my textbooks and my qigong teacher didnt seem to know much about it either. Maybe its just the way my energy is shifting as I explore my own healing process, but Im wondering if anyone else has heard of these things. Please share if you have experienced this, or if youve heard of this ~ perhaps a qigong system or teacher talks about this?

 

Thanks so much everyone!

 

Unfortunately I am not very familiar with most of these terms - but when you are doing this does opening your mouth with tongue relaxed and slightly retracted have a noticeable effect? Different mouth shapes can change the effects - play with it and you can become more sensitive to some of this.

Do you also find yourself flexing your ear muscles on your head? You may be doing this without awareness of it .

 

This can open a channel to the throat chakra and on downward.

 

Two of you have mentioned the popping near the bridge of the nose this may or may not be accompanied by minor light flashes and eye movements, this is the "buzz" still going on in your head - your analyzer so to speak - this will subside - and at some point be replace in the near vicinity with a vibration / wiggle which will be later be replaced by a sort of moving visual tunnel and then quite a bit opens up after that.

Edited June 7, 2013 by Spotless

[XiaoYaoYou]

Vortex, in answer to your question about how the extra points connect in with the meridians, I can give an answer about Anmian on the bottom of the heel. Anmian, by the way, means peaceful sleep. My understanding with this point is that it is where the Yin Qiao and Yang Qiao meridians connect, perhaps even source from deep inside this point. Yin Qiao and Yang Qiao meridians are used (in part) for diurnal (day vs. night) patterns. I use this acupoint for helping improve emotions and/or sleep when the person's energy (spirit, Yang Qi, etc.) is rising up into the head preventing being grounded, and preventing sleep.

[寒月 Hanyue]

Does anyone know how the extra acupoints tie in with the meridians?

 

(EX) Extra Acupuncture Points

Extra Points

74 extra foot acupoints were discovered and put into therapeutic use

 

There is no such thing as 'extra' points in my opinion. The classification is simply a TCM one due to those points not being easily 'grouped' or 'boxed' in with the boxes they chose to use.

 

I also think it contributes to a false understanding of the channels, as do modern TCM charts, an over-exaggeration and over-reliance of the zangfu relationship to the detriment of other understanding, and the Western numbering system false sense of inherent directionality.

 

As an example, the 華佗夾脊 Huatuo jiaji are part of a specific channel, however this is rarely if ever discussed, instead they are usually seen as separate 'extra-points' as though they "float" outside of a channel!

 

TCM confused me years ago, and as I learn more and more 'non-TCM' Chinese medicine it continues to baffle me

Edited June 7, 2013 by snowmonki

[寒月 Hanyue]

 

1. Focusing on the area above the perineum causes the Ren meridian to light up along the surface of the body. If I then focus on the area above the perineum and fill it with energy, the Ren meridian will go in an arc upward, from area just above the perineum out away from the body in a half circle, pouring into the third eye, filling the upper dantien with energy.
2. In wuji posture, if I pull my head back a little while looking slightly down, so that my sinuses move into the field of the taiji pole (I’ve been a student of Jerry Alan Johnson’s system, and he talks of the taiji pole… not sure if it’s in other systems), and if I focus on stretching Du-16, it will create a circle of energy that runs from Du-20 (the vertex of the head) through the sinuses, back to Du-16 (where neck meets occiput) and back up to Du-20, circling around and around, filling the upper dantien with energy.

 

Curious if anyone knows about this… These things are not in my textbooks and my qigong teacher didn’t seem to know much about it either.

 

Thanks so much everyone!

 

 

1. Hui yin is the usual medicine name, it is also called Hai Di by Buddhists and Yin Qiao by Daoists. It is an important place, the most yin of the body. The space into the body slightly above the pelvic floor is also considered the xiadantian by some.

 

The bamai are not tied to the lines drawn in anatomical charts, their pathway is 'larger' than that.

 

 

2. Bearing in mind the above comment. It is part of the Du Mai

 

[hydrogen]

Does anyone know how the extra acupoints tie in with the meridians?

 

(EX) Extra Acupuncture Points

Extra Points

74 extra foot acupoints were discovered and put into therapeutic use

 

I read somewhere that 8 extra acupoints was trigger points for 4 meridians link (ren, du, yin bridge and young bridge). The book also said massaging these points would help Qi runing within the meridians link.

 

At that time, I didn't have the ability to test the claims. Now I can't locate the book.

[寒月 Hanyue]

I read somewhere that 8 extra acupoints was trigger points for 4 meridians link (ren, du, yin bridge and young bridge). The book also said massaging these points would help Qi runing within the meridians link.

 

At that time, I didn't have the ability to test the claims. Now I can't locate the book.

 

The points I believe you are talking about are not fixed, ie they have been debated and the points have changed over time. Some put much more stock in them and their alleged relationship with the bamai. But if you wanna play here is one version;

 

Paired qimai and the "master" and "coupled" points

• Ren Mai - Yin Qiao LU-07 KI-06
• Yin Qiao Mai - Ren KI-06 LU-07
• Du Mai - Yang Qiao SI-03 BL-62
• Yang Qiao Mai - Du BL-62 SI-03
• Dai Mai - Yang Wei GB-41 SJ-05
• Yang Wei Mai - Dai Mai SJ-05 GB-41
• Chong Mai - Yin Wei SP-04 P-06
• Yin Wei Mai - Chong Mai P-06 SP-04

Please bear in mind "master" and "coupled" as terms should not be taken seriously.

 

Personally I am more interested in the Daoist view than the medicinal regarding personal practice. This is rooted in Zhang Boduan's theories and writings regarding the eight vessels and it is quite a different animal

 

Best,

Edited June 7, 2013 by snowmonki

[hydrogen]

The points I believe you are talking about are not fixed, ie they have been debated and the points have changed over time. Some put much more stock in them and their alleged relationship with the bamai. But if you wanna play here is one version;

 

We can train our body either respond to something or not respond to something. Every response is conditioned anyway.

 

I'd believe in anything that make my life easier and happier. Then I train my body/mind/spirit to behave that way.

[Harmonious Emptiness]

Interesting topic.

[soaring crane]

Interesting topic.

Very nice find! :-)