Taoist Yoga Discussion thread

[Vitalii]

Oh, I see Vitalii Lishchyna is here. Don't listen to him guys, he's a well-known pseudo-taoist swindler in Russia.

 

I know this person, he always invents and disseminates lies and slander about me on the Internet.

 

his only goal in this forum is trolling.

 

He considers that meditation, dao yin, tuna and other similar type practices are false.

[joeblast]

I should have just created this thread in my personal section where I could just delete the flame wars and other assorted off topic junk. If you guys want to piss up a wall, by all means, tape a measuring stick to the wall and have at it, but do it elsewhere.

[Vitalii]

I should have just created this thread in my personal section where I could just delete the flame wars and other assorted off topic junk. If you guys want to piss up a wall, by all means, tape a measuring stick to the wall and have at it, but do it elsewhere.

 

Don't worry, I am not going to communicate with daoshi.

[ChiDragon]

I know this person, he always invents and disseminates lies and slander about me on the Internet.

 

his only goal in this forum is trolling.

 

He considers that meditation, dao yin, tuna and other similar type practices are false.

 

Don't worry. Only the words from the one reveals what one knows. I never just a person by one's character.

[effilang]

Step 1

Filling the LDT

(To Be Discussed)

Purpose:

To restore lost generative force and create the outer alchemical agent.

(TBD)

Prerequisites: (TBD)

Practical Application:

Body Requirements: (TBD)

Mind Requirements: (TBD)

Manifestations & Confirmatory Signs:

1: (TBD)

2: (TBD)

3: (TBD)

Cautionary Notes / Warnings: (TBD)

Edited June 14, 2013 by effilang

[effilang]

Lets discuss step one and once we have enough input from respectable members, we will edit post #192 and make it an official Step from the TY book.

 

Have your books handy!

 

Who's first? : )

Edited June 14, 2013 by effilang

[voidisyinyang]

http://fulllotusqigong.blogspot.com/2013/06/taoist-yoga-alchemy-and-immortality.html

 

Taoist Yoga: Alchemy and Immortality -- chapter by chapter summary

put it all into one blogpost.

[joeblast]

Effi, you should put a parallel thread compiling these important ones in your personal section. Or if you dont have one, pop it in mine...just so we can keep it free of garbage while this stuff gets compiled, then when it is pretty well comprehensive, it can be moved to Contributed Articles or wherever.

[effilang]

OK. These are my 2 cents towards STEP 1.

 

Taoist alchemy forsakes the worldly way of life by preventing the generative force which produces the generative fluid from following its ordinary course which satisfies sexual desire and procreates offspring.

 

By regulated breathing is meant deep breathing that reaches the lower abdomen to arouse the inner fire...

 

...the root of the penis where the generative force is gathered...

 

When the generative force moves to obey its worldly inclination, the purpose of regulating the breathing is to draw the force up to the lower tan t'ien cavity under the navel so as to hold it there and transmute it into an alchemical agent...

 

So the generative force is drawn up from the root of the penis (the hui yin/perineum area), where it is gathered, UP to the LDT where through regulated breathing it is transmuted into the alchemical agent.

 

THUS, my understanding of these excerpts is that this is the sequential progression of transmutations up to this point:

Generative Force >> Outer Alchemical Agent

 

It is also said that about 1.3 inches under the navel is the cavity of real vitality (chen ch'i hsueh or LDT) which lies between the front and back of the lower abdomen in proportion of seven to three and which is also called the golden stove (chin lu), the seat of (eternal) life. Hence it is said that life is the generative force which develops in the genital organ. The golden stove originally did not exist but comes into being when the generative force develops and vitality manifests.

 

So, similarly to the UDT containing the precious cauldron, which does not exist until vitality develops and unites with essential nature to become one whole. The LDT also does not exist until the generative force develops.

 

By my experience, I concur.

 

...the quickest way to produce the generative force; it consists of touching the palate with the tongue to increase the flow of saliva more than usual. When the mouth is so full that you can hold no more and you are about to spurt it out, straighten your neck and swallow it. It will then enter the channel of cuntion (jen mo, ren mai, conception vessel) to reach the cavity of vitality below the navel, where it will change into negative and positive generative force.

 

I do not understand what the difference between negative and positive generative force are.

 

At puberty when a youth has not indulged in sexual pleasures and his body is still unimpaired, it will suffice to hold the vital force in the lower tan t'ien cavity (under the navel) and to concentrate on it for about ten months until its light manifests which is the moment for the macrocosmic alchemical agent's breakthrough to realise immortality. This is the quick method.

 

This is for those of you who haven't played with your twinkie bars yet or popped your cork.

Ok. I cannot find anything else in the book about this so far.

 

Prerequisites:

- Mind and Body Celibacy (No sex, no mastrubation, no sexual thoughts, no edging, no touching)

- Any sexual thoughts will turn the generative force into generative fluid. If you are sensitive enough you will feel it happen. If it begins to de-convert you have to store it back in the LDT through RAB or NAB and your yi/will or you can cause wet dreams.

- No movement during your sessions. The JING, naturally settles and builds up when the body is not in motion.

If you move you engage the will from its residence in the spleen(earth element) and it will move to the limbs, and where the mind goes the Qi goes, where the Qi goes, the breath goes. Thoughts will arise, thoughts require breath/qi to function. So movement of any kind is counter productive, while sitting.

 

Here is what I think should happen from a practical stand point:

 

Practical Application:

Mind Requirements:

- Practice maintaining a state of non-thinking and detachment from thoughts during meditation to reach a state of calm and serenity, in order to tie up the 6th consciousness.

- Detach from the 5 senses as much as you can, in order not to arouse the heart and facilitate stilling the mind/heart complex.

- Use the will/yi to concentrate on the LDT. Do not force it, but do not let it drift away. Try to find a balance of your intent that lies between voluntary concentration and non-doing. It is a state of action without desire.

Body Requirements:

- Reverse Abdominal Breathing (RAB) - On the inhale the lower abdomen is sucked in gently, the perineum is sucked up/into the body gently, the anus is sucked in towards the belly button. The diaphragm will press down as the lungs expand, so you have 4 walls (including the Ming Men of the lower back, opposite the navel) all pushing in, creating a compression of the LDT.

 

- Normal Abdominal Breathing (NAB) - Same as the above only the compression and the drawing in/up of the different body parts happens on the exhale. The difference here is that on the exhale the diaphragm is pushed up and not down, so you get a box with an open cap, where the LDT is in the middle of the box and the generative force is compressed.

 

If you want to actively emphasize the process you can visualize drawing into the LDT, yin chi from the testicles, the soles of the feet up the leg channels into the perineum and from the earth into the perineum. All this energy is compressed into the LDT.

 

You can also visualize sucking in air and Qi through every pore of your body from every direction, the earth, the air, the moon, the stars, the sun, the clouds, with all these streams meeting in the LDT where they are compressed. On the exhale your return the energy out of the body through the pores, but the LDTs energy is compounded regardless.

 

Manifestations & Confirmatory Signs:

- As the generative force increases in the LDT, I've experienced tingling throughout the body, vibration and heat in the LDT.

- Qi flowing around the Belt Vessel circling the waist.

- Pulsing of the third eye Yin Tang point.

- Erratic movements as channels are cleared by the extra energy.

 

- Cautionary Notes / Warnings: None at this point.

 

Ok, this is what I have on this part.

Anyone else care to contribute, so we can reach a consensus on STEP 1?

Edited June 14, 2013 by effilang

[effilang]

Drew-san,

 

I will read up what you have on your blog and put it in here.

 

Please guys, use the format I've started with so we can catalogue all the information easily from everyones' contributions.

 

- Purpose / Goal

- Prerequisites

- Body Requirements

- Mind Requirements

- Manifestions and Confirmatory Signs

- Cautionary Notes / Warnings

 

Also. I do not want to follow the order of the book completely, because it always jumps back between chapters and that can get confusing. Lets do it in sequential steps, where every step concentrates solely on itself and does not include terminology from future steps, so that people who are reading it do not get confused.

 

Joe. Every time we reach a consensus on a step, well put it in a different thread that will just be a straight up instruction manual and be like Step 1, Step 2, Step 3 each of which will consist the collective contributions from the posters.

 

Nothing random though. Minority opinions will not be included

We need a majority vote to conclude a step.

 

Arigato gozaimasuuuu

Edited June 14, 2013 by effilang

[voidisyinyang]

umm -- negative generative force is the heat and bliss -- positive generative force is the tingling and also it is yin chi so electromagnetic force.

 

So negative generative force is just normal - like after eating dense food then you get a blissful heat -- and so for most people that then turns into fluid - but through meditation it turns into the yin chi.

 

So the desent of the yang chi as prenatal vitality - it goes to the lower tan tien through the stilling of the heart - and so it will turn into negative generative force also because that is the stove that should always be kept warm to hot.

 

Yeah I guess I am too nonlinear because chapter one if achieved then enables skipping chapters up to 6. Also you can just keep doing chapter 1 -- as chapter 7 reveals. So that is the Ch'an method. Full lotus, focus on the lower tan t'ien, stilling the heart. Wait 10 months. umm preferably you sit in full lotus as long as possible. haha.

[Kasuku]

effilang - to add to your breathing method - while exhaling and energy expands, energy also moves up to middle dantian (kan an li) for purification and warming...

 

u might add the chapter one is basically secret of the golden flower...

[effilang]

You mean, that the heart energy goes down to the LDT on inhale and then back up to the MDT on exhale right?

Edited June 15, 2013 by effilang

[Kasuku]

yep!

[Wu Ming Jen]

Vitality and sexual vitality are two different things sexual vitality has a place to be and shows up physical and produces a physical substance. When one is not sexual vitality has no place to be True vitality is primordial and does not have a location. Attention on The lower elixir field is for males. Attention to the middle elixir field,is for females.

 

Secret of the golden flower is turning the light around. Our light usually shines the out side world, to turn the light around is awareness opening. What is the color of light we call it gold when awareness opens and expands it is like a flower hence the golden flower Mind and body is the cauldron and furnace, use the temporal to know the primordial,.

Edited June 15, 2013 by Wu Ming Jen

[Practitioner]

In my opinion, even though some of you fellows have some amazing conjecture here, the only people I know of who are really very qualified to define what the precise alchemy is and how it's done are the people from Bei Pai, one of the original nothern chinese lineages from which these teachings come from.

It's difficult enough to reverse engineer a system without having a bona fide practitioner of the system with you and relying solely on a difficult and obscure text. just look at how you guys butt heads sometimes. The only people who can define what's what really are the people who have been passing down these teachings and practicing them for generations.

I know for a fact that there are a few indoor practitioners of this system, but no one really ever hears that much from them.

Edited June 21, 2013 by Practitioner

[Kasuku]

 

Who are the practitioners?

http://www.all-dao.com/

Edited June 20, 2013 by Jascha

[voidisyinyang]

http://silenttao.com/2010/01/exporting-chinese-culture/

 

There's this also.

 

http://cup.columbia.edu/book/978-0-231-11564-3/

Edited June 20, 2013 by pythagoreanfulllotus

[Practitioner]

I'm very sure that the Wu Liu Pai of that "All-Dao" website have nothing to do with this type of training because they has a vehement disposition towards any kind of sitting practice - and it is painfully obvious that the techniques with Taoist Yoga are based on sitting.

 

As far as I know the only people who have trained with the Bei Pai are the teachers from the TCCI.

[Jox]

What's TCCI?

 

That is TCCI

http://tccii.com/

 

Jox,

[effilang]

Adding some gems from JAJs new Neigong book:

 

P83

 

After many hours of deep cultivation meditation, the disciples lower dantian qi will overflow, rise up his spine and begin to collect inside his brain. Once this happens, the disciple will begin to see a bright white light shine in between his eyes. This special light is traditionally known as the Mysterious Gate (Xuan Guan). When activate and manifested, the radiating energy of this special spiritual light can be observed when looking inside a disciples eyes, as well as seen resonating within his external energy field.

 

It is important to note, that the refined prenatal spiritual fire of the true fire, is not internally observed as a white light shining within the disciples YinTang (third eye) area. Instead, is observed radiating as a bright Golden Light. Towards the completion of the alchemical training, this Golden Light will eventually be observed glowing INSIDE the energetic field of the white light, commonly seen inside the UDT. This advanced mystical state is known as the sun radiating within the moon light.

[voidisyinyang]

Adding some gems from JAJs new Neigong book:

 

P83

 

So what does he say about yang chi and yuan qi -- my understanding is that the lower tan tien has only been filled with yin chi at this point and then the cauldron moves to the middle tan tien to begin turning yang chi into prenatal spirit-vitality.

 

So the cavity of vitality is made up of yin chi but the source of it is either postnatal yang chi created through meditation or prenatal yuanqi from generational energy.

 

So then depending on the person they have different ratios of this -- and when the yang chi is descending from meditation it then turns into yin chi in the lower tan tien - the moon chi or dragon chi.

 

So for the ordinary person the yin chi turns into yin jing energy and then into fluid.

 

So the ordinary person uses up the yuanqi and also does not create the yang chi since they are not meditating.

 

So the cavity of spirit in the brain remains closed for the ordinary person and then when they have evil thoughts the closed cavity of spirit activates the cavity of prenatal qi in the back of the brain which then causes it to descend down to the cavity of vitality and then it turns into fluid.

 

This is what is meant by when Chunyi Lin says at puberty the third eye closes up and then the energy descends to the reproductive organs. So it is there as potential energy activated by evil thoughts.

 

So the first stage is filling up the lower tan tien with the yin chi but this process is either from yang chi descending and turning into yin chi or from yuanqi that has not been used up yet and from food -- food creates yin jing which then can be purified into yin chi - it is purified from the yang chi descending.

 

O.K. so correct me if you think you need to - anyone? How does JAJ clarify this.

 

At $200 for 600 page book - that's $3 a page - and so what about 10 cents a word depending on font size. haha.

 

So maybe just put it into your own words.

[effilang]

Actually food creates Gu Qi.

 

 

Kindling the Fire

Each inhalation and exhalation shakes the field of elixir, which is connected to the external kidneys (testicles). When stimulated, this sexual energy can either be released as sperm or absorbed by the body as generative force in order to produce the alchemical agent.

 

Leading the Fire

This special fire technique is used to gather the Alchemical Agent via the focused and directed energy of the Hearts Spirit (Yuan Shen), which is then used to move the energy of the Generative Force through the Microcosmic Orbit. As the heart becomes settled within the radian light of its True Nature (Yuan Qi) it will then begin to shine like a bright moon in space. (The mysterious gate)

 

He says that when the Generative Force in the LDT vibrates, you use the leading fire technique to gather and circulate the Alchemical Agent in the MCO.

 

So according to him the Alchemical Agent is the "Jing Qi" or refined Jing

 

The inner Alchemical Agent is further spiritually activated (energetically bathed) for a brief moment. THis is accomplished by radiating spiritual light (Ling Qi) into the Alchemical Agent from the spiritual Fire of the Heart. This is done so that the energy of cultivated True Vitality can rise further upward into the Brain. When fully developed, the energy of the bodys True Vitality will cause a bright light, known as the Mysterious Gate to manifest inbetween the disciples eyes, when the disciple meditates.

 

So the Generative Force, now the Alchemical Agent, after vibrating, goes up the spine into the MCO where it is radiated by Ling Qi (spiritual light) from the Yuan Shen seated in the heart, AT the MAO point at GV6. And this process energized the Alchemical Agent so that It can rise higher into the Brain to manifest the Mysterious Gate.

 

After the MCO is opened and the inner Alchemical Agent (Jing Qi) has been rotated in the MCO continuously, the disciple can then try to manifest the White Light by rolling the eyes around while leading the Yang Fire (Jing Qi/Inner Alchemical Agent) around the MCO. Each breath is one rotation of the MCO during with the eyes are rolled across the 4 main cardinal points of the MCO.

 

This is done 9 times. SO 9 breaths, in order to manifest the Mysterious Gate.

This MCO cycle with the eyes is done a maximum of 36 rotations in order to move the Yang Fire up the spine and into the brain.

 

So thats that for Yang Fire, Drew. He refers to Yang Fire as the combined Jing Qi (inner Alchemical Agent)

He then refers to Yin Fire. Which is done by running the water cycle of the MCO. The reverse MCO, which is down the GV and up the CV and is done 6 times for 6 breaths or a maximum of 24.

[effilang]

Heres one for you Drew.

 

 

When your eyes begin to lust after the opposite sex and the stirred passions arouse the genital organs, if a disciple tries to gather and cultivate the Alchemical Agent at this time, the will create and ingest impure Generative Force. Because it is impregnated with lustful desires, this type of impure Generative Force creates a form of sexual psychosis, known as Evil Fire in the Heart.

 

So, he says that the House of Fire in the Heart has two types of fire. One is the Hearts Fire (Fire of sexual desire) which is stirred by sexual thoughts and arouses the genital organ and the second is the True Hearts Fire which is aroused in the absence of thoughts.

 

But hes says something important here too:

 

The Hearts Fire (Fire of sexual desire) should not be confused with the COmmon Peoples Fire (Bladder Fire (one of the three fires)) or the Ministerial Fire (Kidney Fire), which both vibrate at the Zi hour, between 11 and 1AM and naturally stimulate the reproductive organs, causing the penis to become erect without sexual stimulation.

[effilang]

If these sexual thoughts are ingested along with the Generative Fluids, and then cultivated and allowed to increase within the disciples Energy Body and Spirit Body, his Yin Fire (Yin Shen) will also increase and become extremely intense.

 

The Yin Shen refers to the negative virtues of the 5 organs, ie anger, anxiety, worry etc

 

This cultivated "evil energy" will then give rise to many Qi Deviations and Shen Disturbances ie: sexual addictions, perverse sexual fantasies etc.

Edited June 21, 2013 by effilang