Taoist Yoga Discussion thread

[effilang]

Ok Drew.

 

So he refers to Yang (Vitality - Qi) and Yin (Generative Force - Jing)

 

And then to both of them as the Alchemical Agent in the LDT when the LDT vibrates as "Jing Qi".

 

..their energetic union and spiritual transormation gives birth to the creation of the Alchemical Agent.

 

However, only the Yang Fire (Spiritual Fire) should be cultivated in order to transform the bodys Generative Force into Spiritual Vitality (Ling Qi). If the evil thoughts arise at this stage, neither the Vitality nor the Generative Force should be placed inside the MCO cycle.

Edited June 21, 2013 by effilang

[effilang]

Nah. That is Embryonic (Fetal) Breathing. This is different from the breathing required during the kindling the fire stage to transform Jing to Qi.

 

The Jing is gathered in the pot (LDT), the True Fire of the Heart (The empty heart/mind) is placed under the pot, the pot heats up and the Jing inside the pot boils and creates Qi (Jing Qi).

 

This is the first step. That is why it is called KINDLING THE FIRE.

Embryonic breathing comes during the STOPPING THE FIRE phase after the golden light manifests for the second time and breathing through the nose is stopped.

Edited June 21, 2013 by effilang

[effilang]

During the embryonic development of the fetus there is no breathing through the nostrils. The Yuan Qi is circulated by the Yuan Shen internally through the meridians.

 

BUT - During the initial phase of alchemy, when the fire is being kindled underneath the stove and first cauldron (LDT) - you use the ventilation of the lungs and respiratory mechanism.

[voidisyinyang]

hmm - so far JAJ is basically quoting the Taoist Yoga book! Seriously! The only difference is the yin qi MCO -- but even that is interesting because Taoist Yoga does mention that when the fluid descends down the spine from the brain then it can be sublimated back into alchemical agent but using the fire energy from the heart.... so that is pretty much the same thing that you have mentioned.

 

Fascinating....

 

Yeah so he calls spirit-vitality -- Ling Qi -- and then jing-qi is yang qi or yang fire or both?

 

O.K. here is my understanding from Taoist Yoga.

 

You fill the lower tan tien with yin qi - and when that happens then you start to see light outside the head - but you have not fully opened the third eye yet.

 

So at this point then the cauldron has moved to the middle tan t'ien and so you begin to fill that with yang qi -- and as you do so the yang qi creates the spirit-vitality more so.

 

When the middle tan tien is filled up then there is enough spirit-vitality to fully open up the third eye and this is the real Tai Chi achieved.

 

Then you start working on the golden light and immortal body stuff - yang spirit, etc.

 

But again most people never even fill up the lower tan tien and then fully opening the third eye is much more difficult.

 

Umm - I did fill up the lower tan tien but then the energy was too strong and there was confusion from the first state of serenity - or the Emptiness - just as Taoist Yoga says will happen.

 

If you really study that text - it is truly amazing - the detail it gives.

 

People are claiming the book does not give all the necessary information - fine - so what information is it missing? haha.

 

It's easy for people to claim that as some marketing strategy. Not until you pay up do you get to find out! haha.

 

A better bet is to find a real teacher who can personally guide the process.

[voidisyinyang]

O.K. since I got no further clarification yet I pursued this on my own - digging on goggle on middle tan tien and yang qi.....

 

on and on. Nothing.

 

Until this:

 

 

I have not found consistency amongst different authors in Taoism and Qigong with respect to associations and correspondences of animals to cosmological, alchemical, spiritual, or bodily realms. Tigers are often related to Yang associations, and Dragons and Tortoises to Yin associations; and, sometimes Dragons are linked with Fire, and Tigers to Water.

 

http://www.egreenway.com/dragonsrealms/DT4.htm

 

It appears someone else has discovered this same inconsistency.

 

Dragon is yin chi and Tiger is yang chi.... or is it?

 

I found that by searching "yang fire" a term not used in Taoist Yoga -- not that I recall.

 

http://books.google.com/books?id=BWKEI2oxrR8C&pg=PA35&lpg=PA35&dq=%22yang+fire%22+internal+alchemy&source=bl&ots=JICCPNsrn9&sig=6LoiNjPsfT-zz_BMECcnpR6BQAk&hl=en&sa=X&ei=3zTFUeKGLITYqQGT4IGgCg&ved=0CG8Q6AEwCQ#v=onepage&q=%22yang%20fire%22%20internal%20alchemy&f=false

 

So from Wang Mu - it's clear that "yang fire" is the same as the positive principle term used in Taoist Yoga - to mean when the alchemical agent is created - but this is only after the yin chi fills the lower tan tien and the erection does not go away after repeated attempts to retract it.....

 

Anyway the tiger and dragon - yin within yang and vice versa - eternally.

[effilang]

The Lower Dantian is often called The Sea of Qi, It is the place where Qi is housed, the body's Mingmen Fire is aroused, the Kidney Yinand Yang Qi is gathered, and the Yuan Qi is stored. Also called Source Qi, the Yuan Qi is the foundation of all the other types of Qi in the body. The Yuan Qi is closely linked with the Prenatal Essence (Yuan Jing). Together, the Yuan Qi and Yuan Jing determine our overall health, vitality, stamina, and life span.

 

Of the Three Dantians, the Lower Dantian is closest to the Earth, is the most Yin, and has the strongest ability for gathering Earth Qi. In Medical Qigong, once students have learned to conserve and circulate their own Qi, they can increase it by connecting to the unlimited reservoirs of Qi in the natural environment. Earth energy is the first form of external Qi with which the Qigong practitioner connects. This energetic connection to the Earth is important for several reasons.

1. First, Qigong practitioners need the Yin

grounding power of the Earth Qi to counterbalance

the gathered active Yang energy from

Qigong exercises. Without grounding in Earth

Qi, many Qigong practitioners develop Qi

deviations in the form of Excess Heat.

2. Second, each person's supply of Qi is limited.

When Qigong doctors extend their Qi to heal

others, they deplete their personal supply of

Qi unless they are able to simultaneously replenish

their supply from outside sources.

Even people who do not practice Medical

Qigong draw Earth Qi into their Lower Dantians.

By practicing Qigong and using conscious intent,

the amount of Earth Qi drawn into the body is

vastly increased.

YIN FIRE:

This particular category is considered to be the bodys POSTNATAL FIRE, and is often reffered to as the ACQUIRED EMOTIONAL FIRE. It energetically came into function after the individuals birth. It is energetically responsible for moving the Postnatal Jing, Qi and Shen within the tissues, and for internally and externally manifesting the energetic states of the various acquired emotions )Anger, Rage, Anxiety, Worry, Grief, Sorrow, Fear etc)

 

YANG FIRE:

This category is considered to be the bodys TRUE FIRE and is often called the SPIRITUAL FIRE or PRENATAL FIRE. This special spiritual fire radiates its divine light within the Taiji Pole and was energetically active within the body before birth. It radiates its light within the spiritually awakened, is responsible for moving the Prenatal Jing, Qi and Shen within the bodys tissues and for internally and externally manifesting the entergy of the various Prenatal spiritual virtues (Compassion, Inner-Peace, Integrity, Honor, Wisdom etc)

 

So he says that the Fire path of the MCO is run and this develops Yang Fire and the Water Path of the MCO is run in order to eliminate the Yin Fire so that only Yang Fire remains and the body radiates with positive virtue.

Edited June 22, 2013 by effilang

[effilang]

Yin Fire in the Stove:

This pertains to the Internal Fire (Earth Fire) located within the LDT, used to transform Jing into Qi.

 

When referring to the Earth Fire (Kun Huo) the term Kun represents the Earth Trigram, and is used to represent the Golden STove, located within the LDT.

 

The Huo Fire is used to represent the energetic vitality, which causes the Fire in the House of Water (heat and vibration) to descend into the base of the spine and support the Alchemical Agent on its journey up the GV.

[effilang]

...when the Kidney Water moves in to the Lung Channel, it turns into saliva; and when it moves into the Heart Channel, it turns into Blood. The blood then moves into the Kidneys creating Jing. Then Jing then moves into the Sea of Marrow and is directed to flow up the spine into the Niwan Palace, located in the center of the UDT. This entire transformation process was essential in order for the disciple to experience enlightenment.

Edited June 22, 2013 by effilang

[voidisyinyang]

So this fascinating paper from the taolodge quotes Taoist YOga: Alchemy and Immortality - the author is noting the pineal gland as the cavity of spirit-prenatal vitality. http://taolodge.com/pineal_org.html

 

The author read Taoist Yoga in the 1970s as the above paper was written in 1976!!

 

I was pondering this cavity of prenatal vitality because qigong master Jim Nance has been saying how our awareness is in the back of the brain and the awareness can hold onto our perspective which is our thoughts/visions - but by the awareness holding onto the perspective it then puts the perspective into an objective state beyond any emotions.

 

So I had mentioned to him the cavity of prenatal vitality - at the time I was thinking it was in the back of the brain while the cavity of spirit was in the center of the brain.

 

Now I realize my mistake - the cavity of spirit is closed for the ordinary person but the cavity of prenatal vitality is open - it just lacks the "wondrous light."

 

So yeah for the ordinary person then the evil thoughts cause the cavity of prenatal vitality to activate the scrotum chi from the cavity of vitality in the lower abdomen.

 

But for meditation on the Emptiness then the cavity of prenatal vitality descends energy - fire - to create the lower tan tien as the cavity of spirit-vitality - turning the lower abdomen cavity of vitality into spirit-vitality.

 

O.k. so the yin chi is the postnatal energy created from food, air, and external Earth energy.

 

The yuan chi is the prenatal vitality that has not been used up yet - full at 16 for a virgin, innocent of evil thoughts.

 

So the yang chi is when this prenatal vitality has been sublimated into prenatal spirit-vitality after the lower tan tien is full of yin chi from postnatal sources or from the yuan-chi turned into yang chi from meditation.

 

FINALLY is it clear to me. haha.

 

Thanks for the help!!!

 

wow this is an exciting breakthrough. I gotta think about this for a bit. haha.

Edited June 22, 2013 by pythagoreanfulllotus

[voidisyinyang]

 

...when the Kidney Water moves in to the Lunch Channel, it turns into saliva; and when it moves into the Heart Channel, it turns into Blood. The blood then moves into the Kidneys creating Jing. Then Jing then moves into the Sea of Marrow and is directed to flow up the spine into the Niwan Palace, located in the center of the UDT. This entire transformation process was essential in order for the disciple to experience enlightenment.

 

what's the "Lunch" channel?

[effilang]

Its the channel connected to the stomach, which starts at the opening of the mouth hahaha

 

I meant LUNG! It was lunch time when I was writing it and I was quite hungry.

My subconscious must have gotten the better of me

Edited June 22, 2013 by effilang

[effilang]

The Inhaled Pause:

This aspect of the breath represents the still point contained within the Wuji, and was sometimes practiced in Daoist Alchemy in order to awaken the Mysterious Pass. It is the pause that occurs just before the transformation of Yin into Yang inside of man. Extending the time of the inhaled pause allowed the Daoist disciple the ability to dissolve the Shen into the energetic field of his Taiji Pole.

[effilang]

Drew, just getting to the main part of the book on Neidan. Will post quotes when I come across a useful one.

[voidisyinyang]

cool! Yeah qigong master Jim Nance said he was reading my blog and so then he said he wanted to discuss this Taoist Yoga book more - thanks for reminding me! Qigong master Jim Nance likes books on audio to listen while he's doing physical exercises, etc. I was saying - oh yeah a qigong friend called me yesterday - I was joking how funny it would be if the Taoist Yoga book was on audio. Can you imagine someone reading the book out loud and people listening to it as a download? hilarious.

[effilang]

The initial goal of the Laying the Foundation stage was to purify, replenish and balance the disciples Jing, Qi an dShen, before creating the External Medicine (or Alchemical Agent). At this stage of training, the disciple has now earned the right to formally begin the Xian Shu (Art of Immortality) training, which will traditionally begin with the stages of Creating, Nurturing and Training of the Immortal Fetus.

 

The creating, nurturing and training of the immortal fetus is traditionally divided into six important steps:

 

1. The Golden Light Preparation

2. Gathering the Alchemical Agent

3. Creating the Golden FEtus

4. Opening the Hall of Light

5. Hatching the Golden Fetus

6. Training the Golden Fetus

 

Before beginning these secret alchemical trainings, it is important for the disciple to first understand the methods of collecting the Three Medicines needed in order to construct and manifest the Immortal Fetus.

 

In Taoist Alchemy, the Alchemical Agent is constructed from the purified Jing, Qi and Shen that was previously cultivated and replenished at the beginning of Laying a Foundation stage...

 

Via the next three stages of Alchemical Transformation, the Alchemical Agent will be collected via the following three important methods:

 

1. Collecting the External Medicine

2. Collecting the Internal Medicine

3. Collecting the Great Medicine

 

After postnatal Jing, Qi and Shen of the Alchemical Agent has been combined into one energetic mass and have been purified and refined during the Transforming Essence into Energy stage, it is traditionally known as an "External Medicine".

 

JAJ says that until the heat occurs followed by the vibration about 2 weeks later, you have no business doing the MCO, unless you are sedating a NATURAL errection, one not born of the false fire of the heart, ie at the Zi hour or whenever else the fullness of your Jing QI manifests in the sexual organs.

 

Before the heat and vibration occur, he advises to only use the NAB method for pulling in Qi into the LDT, while the RAB should be initiated only after the heat and vibration occur to signify that the Alchemical Agent, now the External Medicine is ready to be driven up the spine into the MCO by the Yang Fire, as the RAB adds UPWARDS pressure and pushes the Qi naturally up the back.

[effilang]

Because the postnatal cultivated energy originates from outside the body via food, air and water and then enters within it is considered to be an External Medicine.

 

It is important to note, that the External Medicine must undergo 300 complete cycles in order for it to be in harmony with the Mysterious and Wonderful Mechanism. Only then is it possible to begin the alchemical process of creating the Internal Medicine.

 

So he is saying that if the External Medicine hasn't been circulated at least 300 times, you can't begin to create the Internal Medicine.

 

I guess because the EM needs to be cleansed and purified at the Mao and You cardinal points enough times, such that every time it passed by Mao and You it is is radiated by the Spiritual Energy of the Heart.

[voidisyinyang]

cool - I was wondering how much the book is focused on the small universe/mco.

 

thanks!

[effilang]

I would say it is 95% focused on refining energy by circulating it through different combinations of the meridians.

 

Some of these are conventional orbits, like the Macro and Micro orbits, but many of them in the book are connections between meridians and Dan Tiens, that I have never come across before.

 

A great deal of the book concentrates on laying the foundation, by balancing the yin and yang organs and it concentrates heavily on rooting the body energetically into the earth to create the proper foundation and connection to the Yin Qi of the earth.

 

Then after that there are practices to connect to the Yang Qi, then basic, intermediary and advanced methods of beating and drumming the Qi meditations and others used to combine The Yin Qi and the Yang Qi in the Dan Tien and fuse them together.

 

Once the foundation is laid, then one can begin cultivation of the immortal arts (as we know it in the Taoist Yoga). Although what you get in JAJs current book is in a lot more detail and rather than using a lot of symbolic wording he approaches things from a Chinese and Western medical point of view, that just MAKES sense logically, without the need for ambiguity.

 

I will post more : )

[zerostao]

i am curently reading charles luk's other book, The Secrets of Chinese Meditation

it seems far less cryptic than Taoist Yoga

[joeblast]

The Inhaled Pause:

This aspect of the breath represents the still point contained within the Wuji, and was sometimes practiced in Daoist Alchemy in order to awaken the Mysterious Pass. It is the pause that occurs just before the transformation of Yin into Yang inside of man. Extending the time of the inhaled pause allowed the Daoist disciple the ability to dissolve the Shen into the energetic field of his Taiji Pole.

see what I wrote in the kunlun one breath thread about this the pause is unsustainable, the one breath is the real and sustainable way to do this.

[effilang]

The "Mysterious Gate" (Xuan Guan), the "Supreme Ultimate" (Taiji) and the "Great Luminous Pearl" (Daguang Zhu) are all one and the same, or the circle of white light shining in the UDT behind the Yintang.

 

All these refer to the white light.

 

The bright light is considered to be the first appearance of the alchemical agent. Therefore in Taoist alchemy it is essential to cultivate this bright white light, in order to stabilize the Mysterious Gate.

[effilang]

The mysterious gate lies between heaven and earth inside the human body, and only manifests when the disciple is quiet, tranquil and relaxing in a state of complete stillness. If a distracting thought arises, the light of the Mysterious Gate suddenly vanishes.

 

 

As the disciples transformed Jing, Qi and Shen (Alchemical Agent) rises upward into the brain and combines within the Original Cavity of the Spirit (Niwan Palace), the Mysterious Gate manifests its bright spiritual light.

 

 

If when manifesting, this spiritual light suddenly flies away, the disciple can gather it back again by rolling his eyes UPWARD and quickly returning his mind back to a quiescent state. Once the light returns, it is important that the disciple HOLD IT inside the Original Cavity of the Spirit by concentrating on it. The longer it is HELD, the brighter it becomes.

 

He also says that, after it has stabilized, you have to bring the light down to the MDT, where it will energetically vibrate and produce the immortal nectar (sweet dew).

 

After that, he should move it to the LDT and begin to produce the MACROcosmic Alchemical Agent in order to form the Golden Embryo and begin the Creating The Golden Fetus stage.

 

So thus far the process is:

 

Jing, Qi, Shen transmutation (Mind and Body Celibacy) >> Alchemical Agent >> MCO >> White Light Manifests Within Mysterious Gate >> Stabilize the White Light >> Move the White Light to the MDT >> Wait for Vibration and Sweet Dew >> Move White Light to LDT >> Begin MACROcosmic Circulation.

[effilang]

He also says the White Light in the Mysterious Gate can't be gathered early or it will blur out and disappear, or expand and disappear or contract and disappear.

 

Only after it has been stabilized can it be moved to the MDT.

 

You can stabilize it by doing the Fire Cycle of the MCO with the eyes moving from A to D to G to J as in Taoist Yoga, or Zi, Mao, Wu and You. 36 times, for 36 in and out breaths. This will stabilize the light until it is a full bright and glowing orb.

[voidisyinyang]

yeah macrocosmic is not just the 8 meridians but also since the light is seen externally - it is the processing of energy external to the practitioner - the building up of virture or merit as the external is then a holographic reflection of the internal energy.

 

thanks for the further explanations - so it really does corroborate Taoist Yoga.

[effilang]

Ha. I was watching Dragonball Z yesterday and there was a part where they said that when normal people die, their body disappears and their soul is wiped clean of all memories and identities and then sent out to reincarnate by finding a new body.

 

And accomplished martial artists can keep their body and live on in the higher realms.

Funny to hear such profound information even from a cartoon!