Tai Cheng infomercial, 2013: Cheez Whiz or what?

[zen-bear]

To the Tao Bums community:

Last week, one of my private students of six years who also has more than 12 ongoing years of training in the Tung Family branch of the Yang style, asked me about the “Tai Cheng” DVD product that’s being marketed via an hour-long information on numerous cable TV channels across America over the past several months). I had seen glimpses of the infomercial late at night but it impressed me so little that I always turned the channel. But because my student asked, I forced myself to watch the entire infomercial two weekends ago. It turned out to be an hour in duration. Afterwards, I told my student that I thought that his form was better than Dr. Cheng’s as seen on the infomercial.

After expressing my dismay to my friend Debbie Shayne (co-owner of Plum Publications in Santa Cruz, CA (plumpub.com), which, btw, has one of the most extensive online book and DVD catalogs on Chinese martial arts) over what I saw in the infomercial, Debbie harshly critiqued that the “Tai Cheng” product doesn’t even rate as a bastardization of Tai Chi Chuan. Rather, she told to me in roaring fashion that Tai Cheng is to Tai Chi Chuan what Cheez Whiz is to real cheese—i.e., that Tai Cheng has nothing to do with real Tai Chi in substance, and is about as relevant to Tai Chi as soccer is (with no disrespect to the sport of soccer, its players, or fans)!! After thinking about what she wrote these past couple of days, I feel that she hit the nail right on the head with her colorful Cheez Whiz analogy. (Debbie Shayne, btw, has 33 years of business experience in distributing all forms publications having to do with Tai Chi, Kung Fu and Chinese internal arts. She is a Tai Chi practitioner and her husband, Ted Mancuso, has been teaching Tai Chi for 45 years.)

Pasted below is a copy of my correspondence with Debbie to get this discussion kicked off.
On May 29, 2013, at 1:26 PM, Terry Dunn wrote:

Hi Debbie,

My primary inspiration for raising the price (of my Tai Chi For Health DVD’s) came after watching the hour-long "Tai Cheng" infomercial that's running late at night on cable stations like FIT. Have you seen it yet? It was hard, but I forced myself to watch it a few nights ago. Egads, although they don't show much of what's actually on the DVD's, what they do show looks pretty ghastly and cheesy to me--in terms of bastardization and then piling on a whole bunch of gimmicky products (a mat with a tic tac toe grid on it!) and ineffective therapeutic exercises that are totally unrelated to Tai Chi. (holding onto a chair back and swinging one leg forward and back. geesh)

If you've seen it, I'm curious to know what you think of Tai Cheng. (Given how much they're charging for that mass-marketed series--$39.95 x 3 installments, I think that either of my TCFH titles can justify a price of $29.95 --or 25% of the price of "Tai Cheng" product.)

At any rate, I'll keep the SRP's where they are for now.

Best,
Terry

On May 29, 2013, at 4:49 PM, Ted Mancuso & Debbie Shayne <[email protected]> wrote:

Hi Terry,
You are a stronger man than I am if you can watch that crap.

I use the 'cheez whiz' analogy (copyright: me!) If you think of cheez whiz as a type of cheese, it will never satisfy. But if you are eating some appetizer that, for some reason, requires cheez whiz, and you don't associate it at all with cheese, then you might actually like it. Think of cheez whiz as a different food item from cheese...that's the exercise. Think of Tai Cheng as something completely different than Tai Chi. It is not some bastardized form of Tai Chi, it is as different from Tai Chi as soccer. And believe me, you wouldn't want those customers or students!

Anyway, thanks for the info. I know I am a bit on the conservative side when it comes to pricing (that's about the end of my conservatism) but I am pretty sensitive to that issue, being where I am at Plum, and also at my job at the bookstore.

Keep in touch,
debbie


On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 11:35 PM, Terry Dunn wrote:

Subj: Cheez Whiz-- accurate and PRECIOUS!!

Hi Debbie,
Thank you for your candid and un-sugar-coated opinion of the Tai Cheng program, which I also consider to be total malarkey and a pretty grotesque derivation/ bastardization of Tai Chi Chuan.

If you don't mind, as a service to that community, I would like to start a new discussion thread on www.thetaobums.com titled "Tai Cheng: Cheez Whiz -- or what??" And start it off by posting verbatim our email correspondence about it.

Let me know if it's OK with you to do this.

While in the past I normally just bit my tongue and kept mute about what I considered to be outrageous hokum peddled in the name of Tai Chi, I think world communications has evolved to the point (with internet and social networks magnifying the reach of TV infomercials and PBS fare to an almost exponential extent) where that it's my duty to humanity and the furtherance (and protection) of culture to call out and assail what I consider to be the latest insult to Tai Chi Chuan.

Best,
Terry


On Thu, May 30, 2013 at 9:42 AM, Ted Mancuso & Debbie Shayne <[email protected]> wrote:

Hi Terry,
Sure, go ahead! And if you want, you can mention I come from Plum (plumpub.com).

Debbie

Thus, with Debbie Shayne’s permission, I have posted our correspondence expressing our opinions of “Tai Cheng” as TaoBums’ to spark discussion of what people think about this product and the infomercial promoting it. For the record:

(1) Based on my careful viewing of the infomerical, I agree with Debbie’s opinion of the “Tai Cheng” program as appearing to be the “Cheez Whiz” version of Tai Chi.

(2) In my personal and expert opinion, the Tai Cheng program as advertised in the infomercial is not representative of high-quality or even average-quality Tai Chi Chuan instruction or optimally health-enhancing Tai Chi practice because I did not see demonstrated the basic nor the cardinal principles of Tai Chi form.

(3) I believe that Tai Cheng does a disservice to the Tai Chi community and the English-speaking world because I believe that it misinforms and confuses the uneducated consumer and absolute beginner as to what Tai Chi Chuan is, what correct Tai Chi practice involves, and how Tai Chi's health benefits are actually derived from correct practice of the art.

(4) However, I don’t agree with Debbie’s dismissal of the Tai Cheng infomercial as “crap”. In my opinion, the infomercial is a very savvy and professionally crafted advertisement that effectively hypes a wide variety of professed benefits of an exercise regimen that to me is not very good Tai Chi—and in in several instances is not even Tai Chi at all.

(5) “Marketing is marketing” --But I think that to name what's purported to be a Tai Chi Chuan instructional product using a contraction of “Tai” and one’s own last name (“Cheng” in this instance) shows a certain irreverence to the art and to the same extent, a certain degree of hubris. Note that none of the greatest Tai Chi Chuan masters throughout history had ever truncated the name “Tai Chi Chuan” and then suffixed their own last name. That puts Dr. Cheng in a class by himself.

Again, I emphasize the fact that I have not viewed any part of the Tai Cheng DVD series or examined the ancillary materials (floor mat with tic-tac-toe-like grid and a roller device) marketed by the infomercial and I base my opinion solely on the statements, testimonials, and demonstrations by Dr. Cheng and the other persons appearing in the one-hour infomercial.

Based on the infomercial and my knowledge of what movements embody Tai Chi principles and which do not, I do not believe that the Tai Cheng program furthers the ethical development of Tai Chi as a martial art or as a holistic health discipline. To the extent that the narrative script of the infomercial states that "Tai Cheng is based on Tai Chi", I acknowledge the fact that Dr. Cheng is teaching his own exercises derived from Tai Chi while touting the numerous health benefits of Tai Chi form practice. However, I don’t believe that “Tai Cheng” program is an effective utilization of Tai Chi form practice for health maintenance. Nor do I believe that Dr. Cheng’s performance of Tai Chi and method of teaching—as reflected in the infomercial--warrants national attention. This is my personal opinion based on 33 years of continuous training in Yang style Tai Chi Chuan under five high-level masters and 22 years of training Liu He Ba Fa (Six Harmonies/Eight Methods) under two eminent masters, having 39 years of training in several styles of Kung Fu (with master-instructor’s certification in three systems), and being the creator, writer, producer, and on-camera instructor in the most successful instructional Tai Chi DVD’s of the past 23 years, Tai Chi For Health Yang Long Form, and TCFH, Yang Short Form (created and released in 1990 on VHS). www.taichimania.com/taichi_catalog.html

I normally do not write or publish anything to the negative about other people's published programs that teach Chinese holistic health practices or Chinese martial arts—even when I am asked to do so. In the past, I have simply bitten my lip and kept silent over various products published by self-proclaimed masters and Hollywood celebrities that appeared to me as mediocre, useless, or worse--for my tolerant attitude has always been one of: “this is America and business is business.” But I have made an exception here in expressing my opinion of the "Tai Cheng" infomercial and the home-study course that it sells because I believe that it gives Tai Chi a bad name and because I believe the training seen in the infomercial will not give people a good start or a foothold in the art of Tai Chi Chuan nor enable progress at an “average” pace. (Based on my teaching experience of the past 33 years, my standard for “average progress’ by a beginning student is to become totally proficient in practicing a classical Tai Chi form (e.g., 108) in approximately three years’ time, and thereafter steadily experiencing Tai Chi’s health benefits through one’s unaided practice at home.) Rather, it is my opinion that the “Tai Cheng” training will probably hamper and retard beginners’ development in the art and only cause highly credentialed and dedicated Tai Chi instructors extra work and aggravation in undoing misconceptions about Tai Chi that I think this infomercial creates, and trying to undo physical habits counter-productive to Tai Chi development that I also believe will be inculcated by its training methods as demonstrated on the infomercial.

If any Taobums subscriber out there has used or is using the Tai Cheng training program and finds it to be a highly beneficial and health-enhancing Tai Chi Chuan training regimen that would provide a solid foundation for life-long growth in the art--as opposed to what I suspect may be a waste of time--please share your experience and tell me that Debbie Shayne and I are wrong here with our assessments.

The great Tai Chi master Cheng Man-ching wrote that out of the three elements necessary for progressing to mastery of Tai Chi—natural talent, hard work, and correct instruction—correct teaching was the most important element of all. For hard work can make up for lack of natural talent. But no matter how much natural talent or hard work students may have, if the instruction is not correct, then all that human potential and effort is wasted--and for years if one subscribes to the wrong teacher or program.  My opinion from viewing the “Tai Cheng” infomercial is that this training program will not very likely provide correct  teaching of Tai Chi Chuan that will enable or further students' progress towards mastery in the either the short term or the long term.

I am starting this discussion topic based on my personal opinion of the ‘Tai Cheng” infomercial. I have no opinion whatsoever about the reputed skill level of Dr. Cheng in Tai Chi Chuan or his teacher, or his Tai Chi lineage, if he is a part of one.

Terry Dunn


<sup>www.taichimania.com/chikung_catalog.html

http://thetaobums.com/topic/12639-flying-phoenix-chi-kung/page-55?hl=%2Bflying+%2Bphoenix+%2Bkung#entry257448</sup>

Edited February 24, 2020 by zen-bear

[JustBHappy]

I haven't seen the informercials, and it's highly unlikely that I will unless they are posted on the web somewhere, but I already agree 100%. How can this be? Well it's simple, and comes down to one important word, that to me is extremely important when learning any internal art.

Lineage.


The surest way to destroy Tai Chi or any other art is by ignoring the importance of lineage. It's strange to me that so many people are completely ignorant when it comes to this vital point. They are happy to learn some crappy form made up by uncle cheng or aunt wang, or even the through the coercion of the communist government! Purity is everything when it comes to keeping and passing on authentic arts.

The true lineage holders are the few disciples chosen by the current or past masters. Tai Chi, Qi Gong, Buddhism/Tantra, Bagua, etc... are only pure if we have an authentic lineage. Today there are many many "masters" who have little bits and pieces, but very few who hold the entire and pure lineage of what they are teaching. Part of this passing on the torch also requires a high level of mastery. The flame cannot be passed on if it died generations ago.

The sad truth is that the ignorant sheeple don't care. This guy is just continuing what the communists started with their nationalized sterilized sport Tai Chi. Don't get me started on the ridiculous form competitions and Tai Chi sumo wrestling for skinny people that passes for push hands in China and Taiwan. They are all just another nail in the coffin. The ignorant masses simply don't care or understand the value of authentic lineage and this is yet another example.

[hydrogen]

What's the lineage of Lao Tsu?

What's the lineage of Buddha?

What's the lineage of Zhang San Feng (supposely the inventor of Tai Chi Chun)?

 

I'd rather to be the first authentic "I" than the second best of anybody.

 

Back to topic.

 

I applaud Tai Cheng for his effort and guts to promote what he believes in with his own resources. I hope he'll do well.

[JustBHappy]

What's the lineage of Lao Tsu?

What's the lineage of Buddha?

What's the lineage of Zhang San Feng (supposely the inventor of Tai Chi Chun)?

 

I'd rather to be the first authentic "I" than the second best of anybody.

 

Back to topic.

 

I applaud Tai Cheng for his effort and guts to promote what he believes in with his own resources. I hope he'll do

 

 

What's the lineage? They are the originators.

 

Obviously another person that doesn't understand lineage. A lineage is a LIVING transmission, a living flame or spark of true mastery, knowledge and skill. It's not a book of movements, postures, or techniques, it's a living embodiment of enlightenment or mastery. If you yourself become enlightened, or develop insane skill then you too could be the next Lao Tzu, Cheng sen Fang, or Buddha and the originator of an authentic lineage, until then.......

 

Are you seriously putting this guy's dvd's and 'tai cheng' on the same level as these enlightened masters?

 

I found some videos on the web since my last post, and frankly I feel embarrassed for the guy.

[taiji_cat]

WoW!Dat Dynamic Motion Control.Yang Luchan aint got nothing on this.

I guess the next product in the series will be "Tai Chi for Six Pack"

[hydrogen]

 

 

What's the lineage? They are the originators.

 

Obviously another person that doesn't understand lineage. A lineage is a LIVING transmission, a living flame or spark of true mastery, knowledge and skill. It's not a book of movements, postures, or techniques, it's a living embodiment of enlightenment or mastery. If you yourself become enlightened, or develop insane skill then you too could be the next Lao Tzu, Cheng sen Fang, or Buddha and the originator of an authentic lineage, until then.......

 

I don't want to be the next Lao Tzu, Chen Sen Fang or Buddha. I just want to be me.

 

Isn't me good enough?

 

Yes, me is good. I say so. And I'm happy.

[cheya]

Hey guys, focusing too much on the Tai Chi part of Tai Cheng may be missing the point.

I understand how that IS the point for professional tai chi practitioners, but not necessarily for John and Jane Smith who might profit very much from this program, despite the very evident marketing hype. Let me tell you my story, currently very much in progress.

 

A new client came in with a slight strain he claims he got from overdoing the Bretzel exercise in his TaiCheng practice. Huh? He said that the Bretzel was part of the "neural reboot" part of the program. I never heard of Tai Cheng and had no idea what a neural reboot might be, so I asked him to bring some of the equipment with him to the appt.

 

Turns out this was a 70+ year old man with a double knee replacement who took up the Tai Cheng program because he was cripped up from the surgery. He recently finished the 3-month program, which he started because he liked the idea of "taking off the parking brakes", ie softening and releasing the tight muscles that were limiting his movement. That's the neural reboot part of the program.

 

This big man was surprisingly fluid for a double knee surgery. He was in very good shape, and had amazing posture, especially for a 70 year old! His muscles were quite soft, even though obviously very strong, all of which he credited to the tai cheng program. He brought with him an odd foam roller: unlike the familiar blue ones, this one was only 18 inches long and covered with knobs. Rolling on it was pretty intense! That is the Rumble Roller, which does not come with the program (the blue one does), but is recommended as soon as you get comfortable rolling on the blue one.

 

The client said that the neural reboot part of the program is designed to work systematically through your body, releasing chronic contraction in major muscle groups, starting with the calves, and then going to the quadraceps, the rotator cuffs and then the back, all done systematically over the course of 3 months. Each daily session, you do some neural rebooting (which initially involves foot stretches, leg swings and lifts, arm and shoulder rotations, stretches, and some cross crawl exercises in addition to the foam rolling) and then each day you learn a new tai chi move, which are later combined into longer sequences. You learn the moves on a tic tac toe grid, which you create (with blue painter tape) on your floor, basing the spacing on your own body width. So you know exactly where to put your feet for each move. (Doesn't cost squat.)

 

According to BeachBody, "Mark Cheng became fascinated by Chinese martial arts early in childhood, gaining his first exposure to Tai-Chi from his father. He later went on to study acupuncture and other forms of Chinese medicine, specializing in orthopedics, eventually earning licensure to practice acupuncture in the State of California and a Ph.D. in Chinese medicine and acupuncture. Through his involvement with Chinese medicine, he also became fascinated with strength and conditioning training, studying closely with Russian Kettlebell Challenge founder, Pavel Tsatsouline. Under Tsatsouline, Dr. Cheng met Functional Movement Systems founder and physical therapy guru, Gray Cook. While studying with Cook, Dr. Cheng became increasingly fascinated with Tai-Chi as a means of functional movement training and injury rehabilitation."

 

Well, to make a long story short, I bought the program. I'm only on the third day, but I can see how Cheng is subtly working the kwa in the two tai chi posture/moves he's covered so far. Even if the tai chi may not be "classical," he's using these posture/movements to improve function and posture in his students, and I expect that will be worth it to me both as a therapist and as an aging body. I'll let you know how it goes!

 

PS for Terry and Debbie:

When I mentioned to a well-known Australian tai chi and tai chi ruler teacher that I was learning the Masterworks International version of tai chi ruler, she replied that, compared to their Australian version, the MI version was like comparing "chalk to cheese". I have both programs now, and the MI "chalk" version has mega transformed my chi practice! I don't use the (ex-spen-SIVE!) Aussie version at all. Different strokes!

[zen-bear]

WoW!Dat Dynamic Motion Control.Yang Luchan aint got nothing on this.

I guess the next product in the series will be "Tai Chi for Six Pack"

Thanks for posting this Taiji Cat.

It's a shortened/condensed Youtube version of the hour-long infomercial. Everything on it I believe appears in the infomercial that i saw on TV. Seeing some of the "Tai Cheng" movements and instruction for a second time confirms my initial negative assessment of the quality of Dr. Cheng's Tai Chi form and causes me to affirm that he is setting what I consider to be his very poor form as a high standard for Tai Chi practice. Not only that, it is my opinion that there is one posture that he demonstrates repeatedly in this Youtube clip that if done in the same manner regularly over a long term will be injurious to many people. Most intermediate students of Tai Chi Chuan and any competent instructor of Tai Chi should be able to spot this. Anyone?

--Terry Dunn

[zen-bear]

Hey guys, focusing too much on the Tai Chi part of Tai Cheng may be missing the point.

I understand how that IS the point for professional tai chi practitioners, but not necessarily for John and Jane Smith who might profit very much from this program, despite the very evident marketing hype. Let me tell you my story, currently very much in progress.

 

A new client came in with a slight strain he claims he got from overdoing the Bretzel exercise in his TaiCheng practice. Huh? He said that the Bretzel was part of the "neural reboot" part of the program. I never heard of Tai Cheng and had no idea what a neural reboot might be, so I asked him to bring some of the equipment with him to the appt.

 

Turns out this was a 70+ year old man with a double knee replacement who took up the Tai Cheng program because he was cripped up from the surgery. He recently finished the 3-month program, which he started because he liked the idea of "taking off the parking brakes", ie softening and releasing the tight muscles that were limiting his movement. That's the neural reboot part of the program.

 

This big man was surprisingly fluid for a double knee surgery. He was in very good shape, and had amazing posture, especially for a 70 year old! His muscles were quite soft, even though obviously very strong, all of which he credited to the tai cheng program. He brought with him an odd foam roller: unlike the familiar blue ones, this one was only 18 inches long and covered with knobs. Rolling on it was pretty intense! That is the Rumble Roller, which does not come with the program (the blue one does), but is recommended as soon as you get comfortable rolling on the blue one.

 

The client said that the neural reboot part of the program is designed to work systematically through your body, releasing chronic contraction in major muscle groups, starting with the calves, and then going to the quadraceps, the rotator cuffs and then the back, all done systematically over the course of 3 months. Each daily session, you do some neural rebooting (which initially involves foot stretches, leg swings and lifts, arm and shoulder rotations, stretches, and some cross crawl exercises in addition to the foam rolling) and then each day you learn a new tai chi move, which are later combined into longer sequences. You learn the moves on a tic tac toe grid, which you create (with blue painter tape) on your floor, basing the spacing on your own body width. So you know exactly where to put your feet for each move. (Doesn't cost squat.)

 

According to BeachBody, "Mark Cheng became fascinated by Chinese martial arts early in childhood, gaining his first exposure to Tai-Chi from his father. He later went on to study acupuncture and other forms of Chinese medicine, specializing in orthopedics, eventually earning licensure to practice acupuncture in the State of California and a Ph.D. in Chinese medicine and acupuncture. Through his involvement with Chinese medicine, he also became fascinated with strength and conditioning training, studying closely with Russian Kettlebell Challenge founder, Pavel Tsatsouline. Under Tsatsouline, Dr. Cheng met Functional Movement Systems founder and physical therapy guru, Gray Cook. While studying with Cook, Dr. Cheng became increasingly fascinated with Tai-Chi as a means of functional movement training and injury rehabilitation."

 

Well, to make a long story short, I bought the program. I'm only on the third day, but I can see how Cheng is subtly working the kwa in the two tai chi posture/moves he's covered so far. Even if the tai chi may not be "classical," he's using these posture/movements to improve function and posture in his students, and I expect that will be worth it to me both as a therapist and as an aging body. I'll let you know how it goes!

 

PS for Terry and Debbie:

When I mentioned to a well-known Australian tai chi and tai chi ruler teacher that I was learning the Masterworks International version of tai chi ruler, she replied that, compared to their Australian version, the MI version was like comparing "chalk to cheese". I have both programs now, and the MI "chalk" version has mega transformed my chi practice! I don't use the (ex-spen-SIVE!) Aussie version at all. Different strokes!

Hi Cheya,

Thanks for your incredibly detailed and lengthy post about your observation of your client--the older gent with the double knee replacements--who you observed to have both benefited (stronger yet soft leg muscles after 3 mos. of training) and gotten slightly hurt (strain from the Bretzel roller and the "neural reboot") from doing the Tai Cheng program.

 

An expansive exercise program like Tai Cheng (I assume this as it's comprised of 13 DVD's) will have some parts that will hopefully benefit some people. But I do not believe that the Tai Chi postures and movements that I saw demonstrated repeatedly in the infomercial program will provide the first-timer with a functional or healthy foundation in Tai Chi Chuan. In fact, as I posted below in response to Taiji Cat's posting of the Tai Cheng Youtube clip, there is one Tai Chi posture that the infomercial shows Dr. Cheng doing repeatedly that will be definitely injurious to viewers--especially to the elderly and knee-impaired like your 70-year old client--if they do it in the exact manner that Dr. Cheng does it on a regular basis! I stand by this statement. And I will shortly identify this particular posture by Dr. Cheng if other subscribers/Tai Chi practitioners viewing this thread cannot ID it.

 

I hope you and others who stumble upon this infomercial product are able to plumb some type of benefit from the program and avoid what I consider to be the dangerous and deleterious parts.

 

The bottom line fact of the matter is: given this Dr. Cheng's obvious lack of expertise in Tai Chi, in my opinion, this product will do more harm than good. And given his absolute beginner's level in Tai Chi, it is absolutely inconceivable in my mind, how he can deliver any beneficial type of holistic health treatment that can be accurately or even remotely called a "neural reboot". I have been in the neural rebooting/neuro-lingustic reprogramming/hypnotherapy (state certified, btw) business since 1985--using Tai Chi and Qigong meditations as a physical induction to hypnotherapy (addressing a wide variety of presenting problems ranging from habit control, addictions, phobias, and depression to even disassociative identity disorder (on one occasion) and also to cult manipulation (deprogramming it--on more than one occasion), and getting closure on past-life stages of development through regression. And if the Tai Cheng folks are truly "rebooting" the human nervous system through a physically manipulative, invasive intervention using some type of exercise device that affects soft tissue, bone, and nerve, then I believe they are guilty of practicing medicine without a license. But I suppose they all are well equipped with capable lawyers to position the ancillary products and the Tai Cheng distributor to fend off product liability lawsuits from injured customers.

 

Pardon my bluntness, but your first paragraph really makes you out to be kind of a shill for this infomercial company:

"Hey guys, focussing too much on the Tai Chi part of Tai Cheng may be missing the point. I understand how that IS the point for professional Tai Chi practitioners, but necessarily for John and Jane Smith who might profit very much from this program, despite the very evident marketing hype."

 

First, there are no such things as "professional Tai Chi practitioners". Tai Chi practitioners are average, everyday people from every walk of life: the John and Jane Smiths of the western world. And as I said, in my opinion, they stand to incur more physical harm than benefit from practicing Dr. Cheng's stances as demonstrated by him on the infomercials. Your verbatim recitation of Mark Cheng's er academic background and credentials pretty much proves (to me, at least) that he has no business calling what he teaches and demonstrates on the Tai Cheng infomercial--and the 13 DVD's, I presume--anything but TERRIBLE TAI CHI !!!

 

Your listing of Mark Cheng's non-Tai Chi approaches to physical therapy or "functional movement" (and his going from this physical therapy guru that that physical therapy guru) in his resume in combination with his numerous beginner's Tai Chi mistakes made on-camera, betrays the fact (in my mind, at least) that the Tai Cheng program is not even "derived from Tai Chi"--as advertised in the infomercial--but is really these so-called physical therapy methods purposefully mis-associated with "Tai Chi" and copping the name purely for marketing purposes.

 

Very bad timing for this type of advertising ploy. It would have worked better in the 1980's when self-proclaimed "gurus" and cults were everywhere. And back then, authentic Tai Chi was only popular on the two coasts and a few cities in between. Tai Cheng would have made out like bandits with the folks in the "fly-over states". But as of the turn of the century, in every city and town across America, there are at least five Tai Chi classes going on--at the YMCA, Parks & Recreation Ctr., senior citizens center, retirement home, hospital (for cardiac rehab), martial arts studio, and dance studio. -- Plenty of places where John and Jane Smith can find a Tai Chi practitioner or a creditable TC teacher tell them that Tai Cheng teaches truly terrible Tai Chi.

 

Yours Truly,

 

Sifu Terence Dunn

Edited September 18, 2013 by zen-bear

[JustBHappy]

Where to start....It all looks bad, at least for someone claiming to be a Tai Chi master.

I personally have seen a few older internal martial artists that have destroyed their knees, so for me that's always one of the things I tend to focus on. His poor excuse for a Dan Pien extends the knee beyond the toes on both sides, which I find quite amazing. I can see pushing a little to far onto the front foot, (it's a common beginner mistake) but he does the same with the rear foot as he extends out the beak hand. Get the alignment wrong + over extend the knee = possible knee problems.

His shoulders and elbows are floating, not sunk or dropped.

You can tell that he's not pushing off the heel of the rear foot when going forward and the angle is incorrect.

The arms move on their own with no body movement. Forgetting the all important 'one part moves, the whole moves'

On a related note, the hips/qua don't rotate open/close with the movement, they remain locked and tight.

Surely not a Tai Chi master from what I've seen on this video.

Edited June 5, 2013 by JustBHappy

[cheya]

Hi Cheya,

Thanks for your detailed post about your observation of your client--the older gent with the double knee surgeries--who you observed to have both benefited (stronger yet soft leg muscles after 3 mos. of training) and gotten hurt (from the Bretzel roller and the "neural reboot".).

Hi Terry,

I get people all the time who have overdone yoga poses, so this very minor pull on my client was no surprise. He did NOT get it from injury with the Rumble Roller, which he raves about. He got it from a neural reboot exercise (the Bretzel?) that he says he "overdid". Guys do that in yoga too. Mostly guys. :-) By the time he got in for his appt, most of the strain was already gone.

 

Anyway, I look forward to your knee comments on Cheng's video, as that is one of my concerns. (I do wish you were able to base your comments on the actual lessons rather than on the infomercial.) I know many of the things my knees should not do, and haven't heard any of them advised yet, of course still early in the process. I did see knees over shooting toes a few times on the models, but for me I am more interested in the reboot part than the tai chi part, which is just a way to focus on posture. But I figure if my client did these exercises for 3 months on a new set of knee joints, it can't be that bad!

 

Have you looked at any of Cheng's YouTube videos? He has one on foot problems I'll try to see next time I get to town (can't do videos on my stone age internet connection.) Also one on kettleballs, not my cup of tea....

 

Really glad you introduced the topic!

[Wu Ming Jen]

Cheez Wiz! Intention to make profit riding on an authentic and valued name in this case of Tai Chi Chuan. Marketing to those who have no prior knowledge. NO authentic linage qualifications or has permission to teach an authentic form of Tai Chi Chuan. Make up a name like Tai Cheng and this is all OK? System stripped of the martial components. My list can go on

[zen-bear]

On 6/5/2013 at 10:28 AM, JustBHappy said:

Where to start....It all looks bad, at least for someone claiming to be a Tai Chi master.

 

I personally have seen a few older internal martial artists that have destroyed their knees, so for me that's always one of the things I tend to focus on. His poor excuse for a Dan Pien extends the knee beyond the toes on both sides, which I find quite amazing. I can see pushing a little to far onto the front foot, (it's a common beginner mistake) but he does the same with the rear foot as he extends out the beak hand. Get the alignment wrong + over extend the knee = possible knee problems.

 

His shoulders and elbows are floating, not sunk or dropped.

 

You can tell that he's not pushing off the heel of the rear foot when going forward and the angle is incorrect.

 

The arms move on their own with no body movement. Forgetting the all important 'one part moves, the whole moves'

 

On a related note, the hips/qua don't rotate open/close with the movement, they remain locked and tight.

 

Surely not a Tai Chi master from what I've seen on this video.

 

 

JustBHappy,

 

Thank you for identifying the most glaring flaw in Dr. Cheng's Tai Chi demonstrations that I saw in the Tai Cheng infomercial that I believe is potentially injurious to many people if they mimick that flaw regularly in their practice over the long term:

 

His poor excuse for a Dan Pien extends the knee beyond toes on both sides, which I find quite amazing. I can see pushing a little to far onto the front foot, (it's a common beginner mistake) but he does the same with the rear foot as he extends out the beak hand. Get the alignment wrong + over extend the knee = possible knee problems.

 

Yes, his extension of the knee past the vertical line of the toes in the bow stance of his "Single Whip" (Dan Pien) posture is a common mistake made by beginners. This mistake alone, if repeated a dozen to two dozen times or more in a single practice session and with such sessions being done on a regular basis by Tai Cheng practitioners (e.g., every day or every other day, or even every third day) will, in my opinion, will result in unnecessary pain and serious knee problems for many people. I know this from my experience in teaching Yang Tai Chi Chuan over the past 28 years and encountering new students who had studied with other teachers and were doing their bow stances in "Single Whip", "Brush Knee", "Grasp Sparrow's Tail", etc., in the same incorrect manner--mis-aligning the knee--and complaining about knee pains. In a couple of instances, the knee complaints were ultimately diagnosed as joint and ligament injuries by physicians.  Medical experts aside, common sense, self-awareness, and the recurring soreness in your knees should tell you that if you mis-align the knee (by over-extending it forward beyond the vertical line of the toe) in a forward-weighted position 60 or more times in a daily practice session (and that's a conservative estimate, as the Cheng Man-Ching Short Form as just one random example of a Tai Chi Form, has 37 bow-stances, where the knee is brought over the toes), injury to the muscles and ligaments of the knee will result over the long term!

 

I think that your four other diagnoses of Dr. Cheng's form flaws are also spot-on. Agreed: definitely not a master; he exhibits beginners' mistakes. Thanks for your good observations.

 

Terry Dunn

Edited February 24, 2020 by zen-bear

[puretruth01]

I haven't seen the informercials, and it's highly unlikely that I will unless they are posted on the web somewhere, but I already agree 100%. How can this be? Well it's simple, and comes down to one important word, that to me is extremely important when learning any internal art.

 

Lineage.

 

 

The surest way to destroy Tai Chi or any other art is by ignoring the importance of lineage. It's strange to me that so many people are completely ignorant when it comes to this vital point. They are happy to learn some crappy form made up by uncle cheng or aunt wang, or even the through the coercion of the communist government! Purity is everything when it comes to keeping and passing on authentic arts.

 

The true lineage holders are the few disciples chosen by the current or past masters. Tai Chi, Qi Gong, Buddhism/Tantra, Bagua, etc... are only pure if we have an authentic lineage. Today there are many many "masters" who have little bits and pieces, but very few who hold the entire and pure lineage of what they are teaching. Part of this passing on the torch also requires a high level of mastery. The flame cannot be passed on if it died generations ago.

 

The sad truth is that the ignorant sheeple don't care. This guy is just continuing what the communists started with their nationalized sterilized sport Tai Chi. Don't get me started on the ridiculous form competitions and Tai Chi sumo wrestling for skinny people that passes for push hands in China and Taiwan. They are all just another nail in the coffin. The ignorant masses simply don't care or understand the value of authentic lineage and this is yet another example.

 

If i could like this post more than once I would....

 

Its so true that you just cant make up something and declare yourself the master.

 

There are so many things that a grandmaster doesnt tell his low level and high level students a like.

 

Authentic practice from a grandmaster is priceless.

[Harmonious Emptiness]

I think it's good that someone has managed to serve the needs of people with the benefits of Tai Chi, as many could benefit from them who wouldn't normally approach it due to it being too "mystical" or just having no understanding of how these slow movements could be worth doing. I'm actually all for bridging the gap into ancient wisdom even if it takes a bit of cheeze wiz to make the brussle sprouts go down. The reason being that there will likely be some people who will eventually seek further and find the true treasures of these traditions. The 60's and 70's were much like this for spirituality and the watered down appetizer of New Age brought many people to find the true traditions, of which I likely never would have heard of if not for the cultural acceptance that took place the way it had to.

 

On the other hand, I agree that this guy should do a bit more research before he makes claims as he does. He could do a much better job. Even I spotted the knee over the toes thing, and the disconnect from his core to externals, and I'm barely a beginner, if that.

 

I really wouldn't worry about Tai Chi disappearing as a result of this type of thing. Some people will be satisfied with the cheeze wiz and stick with it, while others will get a taste for cheeze and this, imo, is good for the survival of the masters' secrets.

 

Maybe he'll read this thread and come out with a second edition next year, "now with 5% more real cheeze!"

[gendao]

Where to start....It all looks bad, at least for someone claiming to be a Tai Chi master.

 

I personally have seen a few older internal martial artists that have destroyed their knees, so for me that's always one of the things I tend to focus on. His poor excuse for a Dan Pien extends the knee beyond the toes on both sides, which I find quite amazing. I can see pushing a little to far onto the front foot, (it's a common beginner mistake) but he does the same with the rear foot as he extends out the beak hand. Get the alignment wrong + over extend the knee = possible knee problems.

 

His shoulders and elbows are floating, not sunk or dropped.

 

You can tell that he's not pushing off the heel of the rear foot when going forward and the angle is incorrect.

 

The arms move on their own with no body movement. Forgetting the all important 'one part moves, the whole moves'

 

On a related note, the hips/qua don't rotate open/close with the movement, they remain locked and tight.

 

Surely not a Tai Chi master from what I've seen on this video.

Interesting critiques, I've observed some of these principles in just trying to improve my posture and balance.

He also exhibits some lordosis (probably from squatting a lot?) and mainly, does not appear to be ROOTED.

 

I do like his spinal twists at :44 and psoas stretches at

, but I don't think you're going to do much more than slightly invigorate and loosen those areas at that speed...(which even Gray Cook prescribes at a slower, yoga-like pace).

The thing is, he's mixed in a lot of modern sports therapy - which can be really helpful, but is not nearly as subtly-refined as original CIMA.

 

Perhaps this guy provides a better example?

[Wu Ming Jen]

I am all about honorable intentions.

 

Proper body mechanics,alignment, moving the empty foot to change direction, advance or retreat then placing weight on that foot,heel to toe forward, toe to heel backwards, all good for the knees.

 

Overextend (knees beyond toes) and easily pulled off balance, underextended, easily pushed off balance, proper posture difficult to push or pull. The martial aspect are crucial to understanding even if the student has no interest in martial arts they can still learn why they are moving their bodies around.

 

It is incredibly valuable to students to have knowledge of dealing with force without meeting it head on and gain the superior position. These skills translate to everyday life and how students become in harmony with all things.

 

Physical aspects and in the case of Tai Chang poorly done and harmful is a only one aspect of Tai Chi Chuan

Edited June 6, 2013 by Wu Ming Jen

[zen-bear]

What's the lineage of Lao Tsu?

What's the lineage of Buddha?

What's the lineage of Zhang San Feng (supposely the inventor of Tai Chi Chun)?

 

I'd rather to be the first authentic "I" than the second best of anybody.

 

Back to topic.

 

I applaud Tai Cheng for his effort and guts to promote what he believes in with his own resources. I hope he'll do well.

 

If by "the first authentic I" you mean someone who creates a total pile of mediocrity in terms of a fitness regimen designed to pander to the elderly who don't know any better but have only heard that Tai Chi is good for the aged, and a callous and mercenary pilferer of the name of Tai Chi Chuan that misrepresents the true art --with not even derivation, but just made-up, unrelated hokum--for the sake of enriching himself and an infomercial company, then you have very, very low self-esteem and somewhat deranged aspirations.

 

I applaud Tai Cheng for his effort and guts to promote what he believes in with his own resources.

 

Ah, I beg your pardon, but Mark Cheng is not promoting what he believes in with his own resources. The company that produced and owns his programs and airs the infomercials--that in some part encouraged and put him up to this "creation"--is "Beach Bodies", the distributor of the "PX-90" and "Insanity" (aerobic) exercise DVD programs that nets more than $150 million a year. As for what he believes in, it rates not as any derivative martial art or a notable system of physical therapy, in my assessment. (Prior to 39 years in kung-fu and Tai Chi Chuan and four complete systems of Qigong, I was a gymnast for 8 years through high school and college, trained by two Olympic coaches and I was the first Tai Chi and Qigong instructor in American medical history to create a hospital protocol teaching Tai Chi and Qigong to acute-care post operative surgery patients to accelerate recovery while supplanting use of pain-killing drugs (in 1999). And I was the Tai Chi trainer to the L.A. Lakers in 2000-2001). Again, "Tai Cheng" doesn't even rate as bastardized version Tai Chi as Debbie Shayne was clear enough to point out, but an related Cheez Whiz version of real Cheese, of real Tai Chi.

 

And as for your belittling and scoffing at the spiritual lineages established by Lao Tzu, the Buddha, and Chang San-Feng, why don't you add Moses, Jesus Christ, and Mohammed to complete your list of denigration of the holiest in celebration of human hubris?

 

Sifu Terence Dunn

 

_{www.taichimania.com/chikung_catalog.html}

[hydrogen]

Ah, I beg your pardon, but Mark Cheng is not promoting what he believes in with his own resources. The company that produced and owns his programs and airs the infomercials--that in some part encouraged and put him up to this "creation"--is "Beach Bodies", the distributor of the "PX-90" and "Insanity" (aerobic) exercise DVD programs that nets more than $150 million a year. As for what he believes in, it rates not as any derivative martial art or a notable system of physical therapy, in my assessment. (Prior to 39 years in kung-fu and Tai Chi Chuan and four complete systems of Qigong, I was a gymnast for 8 years through high school and college, trained by two Olympic coaches and I was the first Tai Chi and Qigong instructor in American medical history to create a hospital protocol teaching Tai Chi and Qigong to acute-care post operative surgery patients to accelerate recovery while supplanting use of pain-killing drugs (in 1999). And I was the Tai Chi trainer to the L.A. Lakers in 2000-2001). Again, "Tai Cheng" doesn't even rate as bastardized version Tai Chi as Debbie Shayne was clear enough to point out, but an related Cheez Whiz version of real Cheese, of real Tai Chi.

 

Good idea. I guess you can pitch your video to that company to show case your real cheese.

[zen-bear]

Good idea. I guess you can pitch your video to that company to show case your real cheese.

No, that company will not receive a pitch from me.

The real cheese has already been showcased by several national distributors:  Tai Chi for Health Long Form and TCFH Short Form DVD's since 1991 has sold over 11 million units;  Chi Kung For Health (teaching Flying Phoenix Heavenly Healing Chi Kung of Ehrmeishan) released in 2003 is being practice worldwide and is the subject of the longest-running discussion thread on this blogsite:

http://thetaobums.com/topic/12639-flying-phoenix-chi-kung/

 

...that's been read by more than 485,000 pairs of eyes to date.

• Plus, I don't do business with Philistines.

 

Sifu Terence Dunn

Edited November 5, 2016 by zen-bear

[hydrogen]

No, that company will not receive a pitch from me.

The real cheese has already been showcased by several national distributors: Tai Chi for Health Long Form and TCFH Short Form DVD's since 1991 has sold over 11 million units; Chi Kung For Health (teaching Flying Phoenix Heavenly Healing Chi Kung of Ehrmeishan) released in 2003 is being practice worldwide and is the subject of the longest-running discussion thread on this blogsite:

http://thetaobums.com/topic/12639-flying-phoenix-chi-kung/

 

...that's been read by more than 259,000 pairs of eyes to date.

• Plus, I don't do business with Philistines.

 

Sifu Terence Dunn

 

Great. Maybe you want a make over to sell more of your real cheese?

 

I used to do wine/beer demo at local liqure store. The idea was not to sell the product, but to sell an image, a life style or a dream. If every thing else fails, sex always sells.

 

I'd think something like this will sell "Qi Gong last longer and stronger".

 

Or you may come up with something for office cubicle workers. With so many stiff necks, slouch shoulders and itch hands, it may sell well.

 

Good luck.

[zen-bear]

Great. Maybe you want a make over to sell more of your real cheese?

 

I used to do wine/beer demo at local liqure store. The idea was not to sell the product, but to sell an image, a life style or a dream. If every thing else fails, sex always sells.

 

I'd think something like this will sell "Qi Gong last longer and stronger".

 

Or you may come up with something for office cubicle workers. With so many stiff necks, slouch shoulders and itch hands, it may sell well.

 

Good luck.

Thank you for the good wishes.

 

Selling DVD's on the side is a way to support one's teaching and preservation of these ancient arts. Flying Phoenix Celestial Healing Chi Kung is an ancient vast system of alchemic yoga that happens to precisely offer total stress management and relief for the cubicle workers of the world and the more work-oppressed. (See the 5 year+ discussion thread here on "Flying Phoenix Chi Kung" read by I think 335,000+ paris of eyes to date). That is a valuable and accessible case of real cheese, ready for use.

 

Other than GM Doo Wai who is retired and in not great health in his 90's, I am the only teacher and preserver of this rare and tangibly effective system of medical qigong from an authentic monastic tradition located at Ehrmeishan in Xichuan province in western China.

 

Info also here at my website: www.taichimania.com/chikung_catalog.html

 

Regards.

 

STD

[zen-bear]

In case you haven't noticed--and you shouldn't have unless you're a night-owl who watches a lot of cable tv (I have TV on in the background as I write my books on Tai Chi and Qigong)--the producer and distributor of the "Tai Cheng" DVD programs, Beach Bodies, has doubled down on the marketing of their product and now have a 30-minute infomercial on various cable-TV channels late at night, hosted by Regis Philbin, who listens to all kinds of testimonials making the usual specious claims of higher energy, more relaxation, higher sex drive, better golf swing, etc. 

 

Bottom Line:   to use my friend Debbie Shayne's apt description of the Tai Cheng instructional program, Cheez Whiz: 

 

CHEEZ WHIZ is still CHEEZ WHIZ and always will be CHEEZ WHIZ.

 

                                         zzzzzzzzzzzzzeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

 

Sifu Terence Dunn

 

 

 

_{http://www.thedaobums.com/topic/12639-flying-phoenix-chi-kung/page-226?hl=+flying%20+phoenix%20+chi%20+kung}

_and

_{www.taichimania.com/chikung_catalog.html}

Edited March 6, 2016 by zen-bear

[zen-bear]

CHEEZ-WHIZ REDUX.

Time for my quarterly or bi-annual doubling-down on my initial public service announcement warning against wasting money and, more importantly, TIME and MENTAL AND PHYSICAL ENERGY on the  "Tai Cheng" workout course on DVD produced by Beach Bodies and hawked on late night tv infomercials with Regis Philbin and a lot of paid actors who don't know any better.  As I am now in my early 60's (aka, "beyond the age of tolerance for horseshit"), with more than 44 years of experience in Yang style Tai Chi Chuan, Liu He Ba Fa, an extremely rare internal art you've never heard of called 8 Sections of Energy Combined, Tao Tan Pai Kung Fu, and 3 complete Qigong systems under the umbrella of Ehrmei Mountain White Tiger (Bok Fu Pai) Kung Fu, I will renew my last critique with slightly different words this time:   Tai Cheng is the worst "Tai Chi" program that I have ever seen--I think in my lifetime.  It is Tai Chi in its subtitle only. 

 

The current web advertisement is very telling:  the price of the Tai Cheng program is now slashed from the original $120 to $59.85 and at the bottom it touts that a woman who is now a Tai Cheng coach lost 53 lbs. at age 77.   I'm sure sure did.  But my guess is that they can't give this product away.  I mean, good grief!--not only is Tai Chi training not enough, but I noticed in the add that the program also features  two  "treatments"  called "Ultimate Reset" and "Shakeology".

 

While I agree to a certain extent with Harmonious Emptiness above who says that raising popular awareness of Tai Chi--even with such an obviously terrible product--will eventually lead people to find the authentic traditions and sources of knowledge and that such an increase of generic Tai Chi brand recognition is overall a good thing, as a teacher keenly interested in process, I just hate to see people wasting their time thinking that they're doing Tai Chi when they are not--but are actually doing nothing but a bunch of random ho-hum calisthenics with gimmicky props (e.g., footprint map and elastic strap) that don't impart one ounce or iota of health benefit derivable from Tai Chi practice.  Having only seen the past infomercials and the web ads for Tai Cheng, I can only surmise that the only value of this product is the cookbook and the calendar, if only the latter was blank. 

 

Again, as a creditable Tai Chi instructor and a Kung Fu and Qigong master recognized by Chinese physical culture, I ask other instructors or Tai Chi adepts to just look at the postures printed on the DVD labels in the photo at the top of this webpage for this product from a remote distance.  I would be interested in knowing whether you agree with my professional opinion that not a single one of these seven images emblazoned on their DVD discs show correct Tai Chi postures according to the principles of the art.  Well, maybe the woman (in red tank top) doing Single Whip posture gets a  C- and can barely pass.

 

https://www.beachbody.com/product/161654.do?ch=gse&CSE_SHOPZILLA&szredirectid=14783118046992884554810080301008005

 

The old picture book and VHS video from the 1980's titled  "Nude Tai Chi" was a lot more edifying.  At least it has real Tai Chi postures in it.  Hey, and the posture in the video's key art is better Tai Chi form and focus than any of the images on the Tai Cheng discs--see for yourself:

 

https://www.amazon.com/Nude-Tai-Chi-Bert-Rhine/dp/6304291817

 

Between the two, give me Nude Tai Chi any day before the  CHEEZ-WHIZ !

 

 

Help and Health to all my brothers and sisters!  (Traditional Lakota blessing).

 

 

Sifu Terence Dunn

 

 

_{www.taichimania.com/chikung_catalog.html}

Edited November 5, 2016 by zen-bear

[Earl Grey]

I haven't decided if I am having a laugh at this Tai Cheng nonsense or shaking my head as I wince. Next you know, they may have a pyramid marketing program for partners to promote health and earn money to be fit and fabulous, all hunky dory.  

 

I showed this to one of my Tai Chi students who has only been training for two weeks, doing only seated and standing meditations, knowing absolutely no forms whatsoever. He took one look at the video and postures and after 30 seconds, he said it looks horrid:

 

"Tu te fous de ma gueule. Tu me donnes la gerbe": You're sh**ing me, I'm going to vomit.

 

 

There you have it: the company can't sell this to even the most absolute novice because it looks like rubbish. 

Edited November 8, 2016 by Earl Grey