On Tai Chi & Qigong; Are They the Same?

[h.uriahr]

Tai chi performed under the conditions that it should be is qigong. Temple Style follows a chi flow principal. The form itself will do many beneficial things. After that you need to perform other things to help boost that. IMO, John Chang is a dead end, if in fact he is a legitimate master. Many of the things he did is questionable and his attainment is as well.

[Wells]

John Chang is a dead end, if in fact he is a legitimate master. Many of the things he did is questionable and his attainment is as well.

 

Why do you think so?

Because you didn't see temple style masters affect matter to the degree that Chang demonstrated (setting paper on fire, driving chopsticks through wood)?

 

Tummo masters allegedly can affect matter to the degree that they can push foot/ hand prints in solid rock.

This could be seen as some kind of "Hutchison effect".

I personally think it's rational to estimate psychic power and therefore one's achievement on the degree that someone can affect matter.

Edited June 8, 2013 by Dorian Black

[h.uriahr]

Why do you think so?

Because you didn't see temple style masters affect matter to the degree that Chang demonstrated (setting paper on fire, driving chopsticks through wood)?

 

Tummo masters allegedly can affect matter to the degree that they can push foot/ hand prints in solid rock.

This could be seen as some kind of "Hutchison effect".

I personally think it's rational to estimate psychic power and therefore one's achievement on the degree that someone can affect matter.

I believe that all things are possible. I've heard about Liao doing things that are above the quote on quote NORM and I believe them all. I just don't don't buy everything I see. Matter of fact "Believe half of what you see and none of what you hear".

 

For me the video of Chang isn't really convincing anymore. I also don't buy into the whole "scientific observation" either. They weren't under controlled conditions AND they didn't have a stage/street magician there to help point things out and ask the REAL questions. They didn't do chemical testing on his hands after he handled the newspaper. They didn't wand him with a metal detector or atleast xray him before performing his "shocking" demo. People shouldn't assume that because they were "educated" that they weren't easily fooled into the whole "look left while I move right" trick. I'm also not saying that he ISNT real but I'm saying that for me, the kool aid isn't that enticing.

 

Bottom line, I haven't experienced anything all that beneficial with the mo pai practice yeah the video got me interested in qi and the book got my blood pumping but I was still in the beginning stages of awareness. Reverse breathing and standing breath retention? HUNG LUNG HEI GUNG. SIfu Hearfield can blow your mind with the similarities between many of his arts and the "level 1 and 2a" of mo pai.

 

Edit: /street

Edited June 8, 2013 by h.uriahr

[h.uriahr]

Back to the thread. I cant promote temple style enough. I don't care whether you buy Clyman's stuff or Liao's stuff or train with a certain temple master, just remember that if you stop progressing or stop asking questions then you're going to hit a limit and you need to improve continually. Everyday should be a new challenge. I would however like to add that if someone gets deep into the temple style system that their end goal should be to meet and thank Master Waysun Liao and hopefully to train with him one on one.

[Wells]

Back to the thread. I cant promote temple style enough. I don't care whether you buy Clyman's stuff or Liao's stuff or train with a certain temple master, just remember that if you stop progressing or stop asking questions then you're going to hit a limit and you need to improve continually. Everyday should be a new challenge. I would however like to add that if someone gets deep into the temple style system that their end goal should be to meet and thank Master Waysun Liao and hopefully to train with him one on one.

 

I agree with your statement.

The main focus in templestyle is on the alchemical fusion, transformation and refinement of all of your internal energies.

This approach which works with your complete body seems more holistic and promising to me than all other systems with which I was confronted so far.

[Friend]

Edited August 17, 2013 by Friend

[Antares]

No everthing is need Neikung. They have Kotodama and Mushin and that is enough to touch the Tao, one still devlop Aiki and can fight in old age. There is no energy cultivation the access is directly Mu, the emptiness - more I am not allowed to tell about these things except to get this things shown is rare

 

I don't know which lineage you refer to. My sensei only mentioned that there is Kotodama and when I asked him about that he said nothing back to me, he just had nothing to reply. I stand it is not internal MA or I admit it is half way internal MA. I do not know what is Kotodama exactly but there are so many other IMA and Taoist cultivation systems that I asked myself what was the point to learn that. How one can call it MA if people after 10 years of training have no ability really defend themselves if it happens to fight.

I know they say that they teach how escape fighting and I agree with this but it is too slow method of cultivation and I did not understand what is the method of cultivation. You see where I am coming from... When I left my first sensei for another one just to see the difference I was shown that almost everything was WRONG in application and he showed exactly why it was wrong. Second sensei has REAL experience in contact MA but first one was saying he is bad teacher and teaches diluted aikido. This is just example how it is easy to be confused in this stuff if you don't understand application of real MA. They will say a lot about how they good but in reality it is kinda fiction. And Kotodama does not do anything special for me to engage in it. There are many other methods even in IMA like bagua or wing chun and I am more interested in these arts. But one needs much time and efforts for the art to gain benefits. It is the question of time you spend for it. To train 10 years to learn Kotodama... I do not know. May be somebody just likes it but... if it happens to fight aikidoka has small chances against good boxer. This is just my opinion and in no way I want to offend other people.

Both of my former senseis are in most direct lineages after O'Sensei and I have doubts somebody knows Kotodama and it's real application.

Edited June 8, 2013 by Eugene

[Antares]

No Eugene, he is overexpensive yes but he is absolutely no fraud, he is a real deal, I expirienced Qin Ling and she gave me and Kronos a hard time on the same place. The charged coins by Wang Liping as meditation help for the teachers are allowed by me to use and I expirienced that it is very very very ,,,, very dangerous and these are only coins, so the person much be more than this.

 

Ok, I can admit he has some skills. But to pay this price for... what? I did not understand what you mean by "charged coins". What is the evidence of high level mastery in it? Because it is dangerous?

 

I just saying that there are many systems and arts and you can not do all of them. I can not criticize Taichi or any other IMA. All of them are good on some side but there are so many factors that we must regard ALL these factors. Is it qigong or alchemy?

Does it cultivate prenatal or postnatal qi? Many IMA use qi for fighting and it is kinda attached karma I suppose. But other systems nourish your internal qi. If one likes taichi it's okey, I do not mind. I would do wuji primordial qigong rather than diluted taichi what they teach in the most cases

[Friend]

Edited August 17, 2013 by Friend

[Antares]

It is prepartory what Wang Liping teach, what he teach puplic doesnt lead to immortality it is to lay a foundation

 

Friend, are you serious?

You see... People buy it because they have nothing to compare with. And some people use ignorance of other people. All what you are saying about "quieting heart" and "think what you can give to teacher and not to receive" and "next life"...

Methods of immortality teach how to get enlightenment in one life span. These are methods of "ming" and "xing" cultivation.

Not all methods are the same. Qigong cultivates only xing. Quieting the heart by cutting thoughts is qigong method. So you say to pay 3000 $ for one seminar to learn qigong method which you can get from a book.

You can do it, I do not mind. But this is not for me. I have paid already thousands $$$ for such methods.

I know there are some sects who teach xing cultivation first. Does WL teach ming methods?

But honestly I don't care. I won't pay this price anyway. I would attend one of the Wu Liu Pai seminars just for 40 $ and they teach ming methods straightaway. If you wish to pay 3000 $ for watching how somebody does tricks with coins it is your right and your karma. Not mine

Edited June 9, 2013 by Eugene

[Antares]

I understand what you are saying. It what Ya Mu said that taichi is good calisthenics and opens and regulate channels. But as you mentioned FP I personally would do FP shorts and long forms. I already began doing short FP form. Better to concentrate on something one. And I do taichi form sometime. Sifu Terry says it is good to combine FP with Taichi as they are very compatible.

 

Tai Chi is Martial Art. It can have use Internal to produce effect but it does nothing for alchemy but is refining of the body.

Certainly some people can use it as those Qigong sort to cleanse their Meridians, enhance their Qi Flow and cause spontaneus movement, but these only go as far as the Neikung the learned from their clan and it must fitting if it is not it cause poor effects.

You see that Riding Ox directly could use the Long Form of Flying Phoenix Qigong and wont wonder if he could also do the higher

forms when he get the chance, so thats what Tai Chi Can do. He may finish it faster than anyone if he gets the chance.

[Antares]

And I forgot to mention there is taichi qigong method of cultivation in taichi quan. I have book and video on it. It is transmitted by Stuart Alve Olson. Also he teaches seated baduanjin which is alchemical method.

 

Taichi Qigong is short method of qigong with 21 movement. Similar to eight brocades a little but different. Movements are done in coordination with breath. It should be done along with taichi form. So taichi chuan is probably complete path if done correctly in traditional way.