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[三江源]

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Edited March 21, 2015 by 三江源

[三江源]

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Edited March 21, 2015 by 三江源

[Apech]

Are you? Have you received Mahamudra teachings, or something like that?

 

Some yes and vajrayana initiations.

[Apech]

I wondered about the condescension too, it isnt very appealing to be condescending, and it is easy enough to seem that way, it appears. I wondered if I was interpreting/seeing condescension, and if it was really just a perspective that he was embodying, which I didnt have a clear handle on. In the end I decided to ignore it and just learn what I found helpful.

 

It might be that his coarse consciousness are stage appropriate teachings? It isnt unusual - the idea of moving into the space between things... between breaths and thoughts.. its an entrance, no?

 

About the thousand of thoughts all happening at the same time.. thanks for mentioning that. Everything is happening at the same time.

 

I wonder why people have to think either this guy is perfect and all knowing or knock him down with heavy criticism. I prefer to look for what it interesting/useful to me in what people say. I don't expect them to faultless or even enlightened (and I am not going to say 'whatever that means') ... if I want food I look around for some and accept what is offered in good spirit. I also disregard any gossip, sex scandal nonsense and so on ... if their crap it will quickly show through and be of no use to me so I move on.

[C T]

....as for those of you that have been critical of Adya, well I'm just devastated and have wet myself with amazement. I was hoping to make my way to his home and convince him to let me live with him so that I could breath in his outbreaths and make him nice pancakes and stuff.

 

pssst... you are already breathing in his out-breaths. Its a collective thing, no? One half of the population breathing in, the other breathing out. Bound to mix on some level, at some point, i think.

 

btw, Do you think he would enjoie the odd blueberry muffin too?

[silent thunder]

I wonder why people have to think either this guy is perfect and all knowing or knock him down with heavy criticism. I prefer to look for what it interesting/useful to me in what people say. I don't expect them to faultless or even enlightened (and I am not going to say 'whatever that means') ... if I want food I look around for some and accept what is offered in good spirit. I also disregard any gossip, sex scandal nonsense and so on ... if their crap it will quickly show through and be of no use to me so I move on.

I've really focused on this over the last few years.

For me, it's emotional masturbation and as a life game, it's relentless. Talk about a power sap.

 

The internal high I will get from building up a person in my mind into a hero target; or following them through media or books or movies along with the crowd and building up the target. But underneath the surface, I'm really just waiting for them to fuck up so the game can really get going. When the hero target does finally make a mistake, I get to tear them to shreds with 'justified' vicious glee. Or sit and witness as others do the work for me in the media... It's still very sticky, I can get back into the game so easily when not mindful. First part of the game is I get off on them being a hero while I'm building them up and then if/when they mess up, I get to really get off on the punishment. It's shadow energy and it's pretty natural I guess, just doesn't serve me the way it used to.

 

All the fundamentalist righteous indignation I can feel about words and authenticity, or food, sex, parenting... long lists of stuff and it creeps in so easily. Fundamentalist ways of thinking are like a ferret, keep chewing new paths into my calm. But I keep breathing and releasing. So on it goes like a bellows.

 

Anymore when I engage in that behavior, I just recognize it as masturbation and a conditioned chemical behavior response.

No denying the power of that particular high. The release of chemicals associated with that process is stunning. Sometimes I still engage fully with it, but it's lost much of its former potency.

 

The use of word/symbols, guarantees the existence of contradiction.

The tendency to get emotional about and play with them, is personal behavior pattern.

 

I try to listen, read or watch with awareness.

Then I sit, or walk, or sleep and let the info sift.

What works settles and what doesn't rolls away.

 

Just words.

[Vmarco]

pssst... you are already breathing in his out-breaths. Its a collective thing, no? One half of the population breathing in, the other breathing out. Bound to mix on some level, at some point, i think.

 

btw, Do you think he would enjoie the odd blueberry muffin too?

 

In most of the West, the population that breathes in (and tries to hold it) are Red Minded, while those who breath out are Blue Minded,...and never the two wish to meet.

[Tibetan_Ice]

..

It might be that his coarse consciousness are stage appropriate teachings? It isnt unusual - the idea of moving into the space between things... between breaths and thoughts.. its an entrance, no?

 

Hi Cat

That is a new-agey belief that the coarse space between thoughts is somehow related to stillness and the essence. Well, it is because the essence penetrates everything, except that you'd never realize it. The problem is not one of what you grasp at, because trying to grasp at the spaces or gaps is still a form of grasping. The problem is one of dropping the veils and seeing what is really there.

As Alan Wallace described it in one of his podcasts, the coarse mind has to dissolve into the subtle mind (substrate consciousness), and then the substrate consciousness has to dissolve into pure presence (rigpa).

 

Here is a quote with the same general idea:

In the midst of that insight, “if a sense of stillness predominates at this time, it is called the ‘union of quiescence and insight.’” There is an absence of excitation. “In what way is this vision superior? Previously,” before getting to this stage of the practice, “even if you watched with great diligence, your mind was veiled by subconscious movement and by laxity and dullness, so thoughts were hard to see.” Right now your mind is veiled by subtle “murmurings” and, of course, by laxity and dullness. These subtle perturbations don’t permit you enough clarity to see what’s going on, and so some thoughts are difficult to see, such as these underlying murmurings. Once you do see them, you might say, “Oh, that was coming from the subconscious.” Well, they were in the “subconscious” before, simply because you weren’t conscious of them. Improve your clarity and the subconscious starts to come into view. Continue honing your attention until you probe all the way through the subconscious to the substrate consciousness, from which even subconscious mental events emerge.

 

So you arrive at the unification of movement and mindfulness. “But now, even without exerting yourself very much, all thoughts that arise become apparent, and you detect them very well.” This is reminiscent of the Buddha’s assertion, “For one who clings, motion exists; but for one who clings not, there is no motion. Where no motion is, there is stillness. Where stillness is, there is no craving. Where no craving is, there is neither coming nor going. Where no coming nor going is, there is neither arising nor passing away. Where neither arising nor passing away is, there is neither this world nor a world beyond, nor a state between. This, verily, is the end of suffering.”28 This practice of shamatha is a straight path to the liberation eventually realized through the union of shamatha and vipashyana.

 

Wallace, B. Alan (2011-08-23). Stilling the Mind: Shamatha Teachings from Dudjom Lingpa's Vajra Essence (p. 150). Wisdom Publications. Kindle Edition.

 

Again, if you read Adyashanti's text on true meditation, you will see the blatant contradictions:

 

http://www.adyashanti.org/index.php?file=writings_inner&writingid=12

 

First he says:

True meditation appears in consciousness spontaneously when awareness is not being manipulated or controlled.

...

In true meditation all objects (thoughts, feelings, emotions, memories, etc.) are left to their natural functioning. This means that no effort should be made to focus on, manipulate, control, or suppress any object of awareness.

Is not looking for gaps between thoughts a form of manipulation, of controlling the mind and awareness?

It is a contradiction.

 

Further, he offers a cop-out, instead of sticking to 'abiding in stillness', he suggests using mantras or a simple centering prayer to help still the mind:

It is perfectly OK to use a more directed technique such as following your breath, or using a simple mantra or centering prayer, if you find that it helps you to not get lost in thought.

So, his solution, which is contrary to what he is calling "true meditation with no manipulation or control of awareness", is to control and manipulate the mind into reciting mantras and prayers. Well, which is it?

 

I'm not the only person to see the confusion that arises in his writings.

 

The thing that disgusted me the most about Adyashanti was when he said that eventually all practices don't work anymore. Talk about shooting yourself in the foot. Practices supposedly got him to where he is now (Zen), so why does he chop down the very same tree he climbed? Another case of "do what I say, not what I did".

 

There are much better, clearer teachers out there. Alan Wallace, Shaila Catherine and Ajahn Brahm are just some of them.

 

TI

[silent thunder]

The thing that disgusted me the most about Adyashanti was when he said that eventually all practices don't work anymore. Talk about shooting yourself in the foot. Practices supposedly got him to where he is now (Zen), so why does he chop down the very same tree he climbed? Another case of "do what I say, not what I did".

Yea, I get this, but eventually when I follow that to the end game, all practices break down.

 

To me the intent of the practice is to go beyond.

It's like the sense that if I follow and practice and work enough, I'll finally allow myself authority to just stop.

What I've gotten from emptiness dancing is that eventually he woke up and the practice fell away like all other illusions.

[C T]

In most of the West, the population that breathes in (and tries to hold it) are Red Minded, while those who breath out are Blue Minded,...and never the two wish to meet.

Thats an interesting proposition. Have never come across this concept of red and blue minded. Please elaborate? Thanks.

[Vmarco]

 

Vmarco, on 11 Jun 2013 - 08:33, said:

In most of the West, the population that breathes in (and tries to hold it) are Red Minded, while those who breath out are Blue Minded,...and never the two wish to meet.

 

 

Thats an interesting proposition. Have never come across this concept of red and blue minded. Please elaborate? Thanks.

 

Your post reminded me of Red (conservatives) and Blue (progessive) political constituents,...in other words, I just made it up. But think about it,...LOL

[三江源]

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Edited March 21, 2015 by 三江源

[liminal_luke]

deleted to eliminate snarky attitude

Edited June 12, 2013 by liminal_luke

[Tibetan_Ice]

Yea, I get this, but eventually when I follow that to the end game, all practices break down.

 

To me the intent of the practice is to go beyond.

It's like the sense that if I follow and practice and work enough, I'll finally allow myself authority to just stop.

What I've gotten from emptiness dancing is that eventually he woke up and the practice fell away like all other illusions.

 

Hi ST

He wasn't talking about the end game. He was saying that at first, practices work, but after a while, they no longer produce the results they did at first. He wasn't talking about the end game. He was talking about practices like mantra repetition or following the breath. He never bothers to tell people when he is switching gears from a 'climbing up the mountain' perspective to a 'looking down from the mountain top' perspective. He is a cruel deceiver and confuses many people.

 

My question to you is "why do you think he has woken up?" I don't believe he is enlightened. His "enlightenment experience", that of discovering the void and then seeing some past lives is no grounds for claiming enlightenment. If Adyashanti were awake, then why can't he tailor his responses to his followers based on their karma and dispositions, rather than regurgitate stock spiritual teachers' responses?

 

You know, I'm not the only one who finds Adyashanti confusing and somewhat of an inconsistent self-declared enlightened fraud. There are others too.. I think he is more into big business and compensating for a poor childhood (ego) than coming from the heart.

 

Read this review of his book "The End of Your World".

link: http://www.amazon.com/The-End-Your-World-Enlightenment/product-reviews/1591797799/ref=cm_cr_dp_qt_hist_two?ie=UTF8&filterBy=addTwoStar&showViewpoints=0\

 

 

 

Customer review from the Amazon Vine™ Program (What's this?)

This book is my first exposure to Adyashanti, reviewing it as a service to the Amazon.com Vine community. Having a deep knowledge of Zen, Dzogchen, and Advaita from teachers like Ramana Maharshi, Papaji, Sosan, and Norbu, I would have never picked up this book. This book is clearly written for a beginner spiritual audience who wants to talk a lot about enlightenment to judge if they can place the "enlightened" nametag on themselves.

 

In "The End of Your World" Adyashanti takes the reader on a journey of what happens to a person when they are "enlightened". He tells the audience what to look for and what to expect, relaying his own stories and personal experience. Clearly this type of approach is only reinforcing the identification of a person with events and isolated experiences, effectively moving the reader's consciousness away from any direct experience of Consciousness back into the analytical self-reflecting mind.

 

If a person were to compare this book with a book by a spiritual teacher such as Ramana Maharshi or Papaji, we would clearly see the difference. While Ramana Maharshi and Papaji take the reader back into the direct experience of Consciousness with every sentence, Adyashanti takes the reader in the opposite direction - further into the egoic mind.

 

So if you want to call yourself "enlightened" but aren't sure if this new nametag fits, you may want to read this book by Adyasanti. However if you only want deep abiding inner peace and stillness, I recommend reading a teacher like Ramana Maharshi.

 

To close my review, in the beginning of chapter 2, Adyasanti states that enlightenment does not have an experience of love or bliss. That divine ecstacy is only a salespitch.

 

Experiencing "enlightenment" without love is only a tiny glimmer of the enlightened state. This "loveless enlightenment" is commonly expressed by teachers when the ego remains and the Spiritual Heart is unawakened.

 

So when a teacher advertises himself as an Advaita teacher and teaches that bliss is not part of enlightenment, a red flag is raised. To quote the most well-known Advaita teacher of our time, Ramana Maharshi:

 

"If it is the real bliss of the Self that is experienced, that is, if the mind has really merged in the Self, such a doubt will not arise at all. The question itself shows real bliss was not reached. All doubts will cease only when the doubter and his source have been found. Bliss is a thing which is always there and is not something which comes and goes. That which comes and goes is a creation of the mind and you should not worry about it."

 

On a similar note, I studied the Zen Buddhist tradition for many years before I first heard a Zen teacher use the term "love" when describing the state of enlightenment. I was shocked when I first heard this word spoken in this context. Zen teachings always appeared dry and devoid of energy.

 

I was at a Zen retreat when I was honored to meet a 97-year old Zen roshi. Of the handful of reputed spiritual teachers that I have been able to sit with or speak to, this man had the most remarkable stillness. His energy field was completely still, yet radiant - not even a shutter of movement in his energy. To this day, I have never seen another person who was so still within.

 

As this 97-year old Zen roshi spoke to us, he described the state of enlightenment as the meeting point of Tathaga and Tathagata, that singular moment when perfect stillness is reached as the duality becomes One. He called this state "True Love". This description was shockingly new to me, a radical departure from the ancient words of Zen and Chan teachers. Yet my direct experience of this roshi - his stillness, depth, and radiance - confirmed that he had experienced this state deeper than anyone I had met before (or to this day).

 

There are a handful of other incomplete understandings that Adyasanti shares in this book. I will not go into these because by now I think any sincere reader can understand the essence of my review of this book.

 

I have always told others to read only the words spoken directly from the master teachers. Avoid re-interpretations and summaries. If you want enlightenment, find a teacher who will give you the way, not one who will talk about what to look for along it.

 

When a student gets to a point in his/her spiritual practice, the realization occurs where talking about enlightenment is useless and even ridiculous. Only the direct experience of inner stillness and lucid clarity is the way and the goal, both occuring in this immediate moment.

 

Words are for the mind. Silence is for the Heart.

 

Namaste.

 

You see!

 

This person, who sounds like an authentic seeker, says: "To close my review, in the beginning of chapter 2, Adyasanti states that enlightenment does not have an experience of love or bliss. That divine ecstacy is only a salespitch.

 

Experiencing "enlightenment" without love is only a tiny glimmer of the enlightened state. This "loveless enlightenment" is commonly expressed by teachers when the ego remains and the Spiritual Heart is unawakened."

 

Anyway, I have lost allot of time studying Adyashanti, and it is time I won't get back. I don't want to waste any more time on this topic. But hopefully my posts will serve as a caution sign and help others get onto a true path with less confusion from the teachings.

 

TI

 

Edited June 12, 2013 by Tibetan_Ice

[silent thunder]

 

Hi ST

He wasn't talking about the end game. He was saying that at first, practices work, but after a while, they no longer produce the results they did at first. He wasn't talking about the end game. He was talking about practices like mantra repetition or following the breath. He never bothers to tell people when he is switching gears from a 'climbing up the mountain' perspective to a 'looking down from the mountain top' perspective. He is a cruel deceiver and confuses many people.

 

My question to you is "why do you think he has woken up?" I don't believe he is enlightened. His "enlightenment experience", that of discovering the void and then seeing some past lives is no grounds for claiming enlightenment. If Adyashanti were awake, then why can't he tailor his responses to his followers based on their karma and dispositions, rather than regurgitate stock spiritual teachers' responses?

 

You know, I'm not the only one who finds Adyashanti confusing and somewhat of an inconsistent self-declared enlightened fraud. There are others too.. I think he is more into big business and compensating for a poor childhood (ego) than coming from the heart.

 

Read this review of his book "The End of Your World".

link: http://www.amazon.com/The-End-Your-World-Enlightenment/product-reviews/1591797799/ref=cm_cr_dp_qt_hist_two?ie=UTF8&filterBy=addTwoStar&showViewpoints=0\

 

 

 

 

You see!

 

This person, who sounds like an authentic seeker, says: "To close my review, in the beginning of chapter 2, Adyasanti states that enlightenment does not have an experience of love or bliss. That divine ecstacy is only a salespitch.

 

Experiencing "enlightenment" without love is only a tiny glimmer of the enlightened state. This "loveless enlightenment" is commonly expressed by teachers when the ego remains and the Spiritual Heart is unawakened."

 

Anyway, I have lost allot of time studying Adyashanti, and it is time I won't get back. I don't want to waste any more time on this topic. But hopefully my posts will serve as a caution sign and help others get onto a true path with less confusion from the teachings.

 

TI

Thank you for your thoughtful response.

 

I guess I accept his awakening as 'an awakening'. He's had an awakening on his path and I process the words/symbols from this reference point.

 

I can't begin to get into his motivations at this point. I'm intrigued to see where his story leads, even if it ends up not resonating with me at all, I still end up finding benefit.

 

I'm grateful for your response.

I always take teachings with a heavy dose of 'run it through my system' to see how things settle.

Edited March 29, 2014 by silent thunder

[C T]

Im wondering if buddhist enlightenment is an experience, in the everyday sense of the word. I think if one can say, "Enlightenment is (.....)", then surely that it a limiting view of sorts because it is my understanding that enlightenment is not a personal happening, as in, it does not 'enter' a person like some grace from a transcendent plane, so why would it entail feelings of bliss and love and such?

[Jetsun]

I would assume that saying it is anything or defining it in any way might potentially create mind concepts and expectations which get in the way of seeing what is actually going on openly without preconceptions.

[4bsolute]

So my realization yesterday is true, that the process called "Global Ascension 2012" and beyond is merely a process for the physical body of the earth to heal itself from... us. And the entities that worked through us all the years, which happend for most of us unconsciously.

 

The re-incarnation is prohibited for the earth and most of us are sent into the 4th dimension and above to stay there, play and learn like we always did. Few will stay on the earth and help her recover.

 

So in layman's-terms this means (fear inc) 90% of the population is getting extuinguished, those who are higher spiritual beings in human forms stay here due to their direct connection to the universe and their acquired wisdom about the totality of things.

 

Is this correct? not in terms of: I create my reality - but from a holistic point, that excludes our brainly logic and considers the universal both and; and whatever else there is unknown to me

 

... if so: What happens to people who live with a Higher Self connection,who life on prana, who are not harming this planet anymore on neither a mental, nor emotional, nor physical level?

 

 

Kind regards.

[三江源]

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Edited March 21, 2015 by 三江源

[WillingToListen]

So my realization yesterday is true, that the process called "Global Ascension 2012" and beyond is merely a process for the physical body of the earth to heal itself from... us. And the entities that worked through us all the years, which happend for most of us unconsciously.

 

The re-incarnation is prohibited for the earth and most of us are sent into the 4th dimension and above to stay there, play and learn like we always did. Few will stay on the earth and help her recover.

 

So in layman's-terms this means (fear inc) 90% of the population is getting extuinguished, those who are higher spiritual beings in human forms stay here due to their direct connection to the universe and their acquired wisdom about the totality of things.

 

Is this correct? not in terms of: I create my reality - but from a holistic point, that excludes our brainly logic and considers the universal both and; and whatever else there is unknown to me

 

... if so: What happens to people who live with a Higher Self connection,who life on prana, who are not harming this planet anymore on neither a mental, nor emotional, nor physical level?

 

 

Kind regards.

 

What are your sources for this information? It sounds like new age misinformation.

 

I was really worried about the the state of world affairs and the 'approaching end of the world', but- there's nothing new under the sun.

[Tibetan_Ice]

Wow... thank you for your thoughtful response. *Deep bow of respect.*

Hi Silent Thunder,

For some reason I went looking for videos on youtube a few nights ago and I found this video that was quite good. I watched the whole video and mavelled at the control and discipline that the teacher exhibited.. Towards the end of watching it something clicked.. Silent Thunder... deep bow..."Silent Thunder dharma talk".. hmmm. Is that you?

 

 

TI

[silent thunder]

Hi Silent Thunder,

For some reason I went looking for videos on youtube a few nights ago and I found this video that was quite good. I watched the whole video and mavelled at the control and discipline that the teacher exhibited.. Towards the end of watching it something clicked.. Silent Thunder... deep bow..."Silent Thunder dharma talk".. hmmm. Is that you?

 

 

TI

It's me in a sense.... but just the brotherly one.

 

Cool clip, synchronicity. I'll try it.

[Vmarco]

 

Anyway, I have lost allot of time studying Adyashanti, and it is time I won't get back. I don't want to waste any more time on this topic. But hopefully my posts will serve as a caution sign and help others get onto a true path with less confusion from the teachings.

 

TI

 

 

Until as person realizes one absolute truth,...there will be much so-called wasting of time.

 

An absolute truth only appears effortlessly,...which often arises after much effort dedicated to recognizing the false as the false. If one cannot recognize the false as the false,...the possibility of truth will be obscured. As such, one can be fully assured, that no theist has ever realized a single absolute truth. Their belief in theist obscures it.

[Tibetan_Ice]

Until as person realizes one absolute truth,...there will be much so-called wasting of time.

 

An absolute truth only appears effortlessly,...which often arises after much effort dedicated to recognizing the false as the false. If one cannot recognize the false as the false,...the possibility of truth will be obscured. As such, one can be fully assured, that no theist has ever realized a single absolute truth. Their belief in theist obscures it.

 

If it were true that absolute truth only appears effortlessly, then the majority of the population on all the infinite planes would have realized absolute truth eons ago, because most people don't put any effort at all into seeking absolute truth.

 

An absolute truth never appears, because "truth" is a concept and concepts can only be held by the conceptual mind.

 

The minute you attach a label on it, so that the conceptual mind can grasp it, it is no longer absolute truth.

 

One can be fully assured, that no intellectual nor scholar has ever realized the absolute truth, because their conceptual mind obscures it.

 

Words: just a pile of crap.

 

[Vmarco]

If it were true that absolute truth only appears effortlessly, then the majority of the population on all the infinite planes would have realized absolute truth eons ago, because most people don't put any effort at all into seeking absolute truth.

 

An absolute truth never appears, because "truth" is a concept and concepts can only be held by the conceptual mind.

 

The minute you attach a label on it, so that the conceptual mind can grasp it, it is no longer absolute truth.

 

One can be fully assured, that no intellectual nor scholar has ever realized the absolute truth, because their conceptual mind obscures it.

 

Words: just a pile of crap.

 

 

Well,...I'd agree that your words are a pile of crap,...but wouldn't say all words strung together into sentences are of the crap variety.

 

So, let's take a closer look at your excrement,....absolute truth is not a concept. In fact, if concept can be attached in any way, that's a pretty good indication that it is not an absolute truth.

 

Your reasoning that if realizing absolute truth is effortless, that all, or even one, ignorant person would realize absolute truth. Of course, my above post actually said,...the absolute truth "often arises after much effort dedicated to recognizing the false as the false." The word "often" takes into account that much effort is not needed to recognize the false as the false,...but not necessary. Some can surrender their attachments to the false,...for example, theism,...without much effort, and thus be enough of an open vessel to recognize absolute truth.

 

A well known purveyor of the spiritual process correctly said,...."we need to draw our attention to what is false in us, for unless we learn to recognize the false as the false, there can be no lasting transformation, and you will always be drawn back into illusion, for that is how the false perpetuates itself" Eckhart Tolle

 

I really care who Eckhart Tolle is,...it is totally irrelevant,...but the message is correct. Until one learns to significantly recognize the false as the false, even a single absolute truth will be obscure. The quickest way is total surrender,...sort of like letting go of all hope. Hope is barrier to absolute truth. Christianity is founded on hope,...so it is of no surprise that it is impossible for a Christian to ever recognize an absolute truth.

 

Religionists, like Christians, cling to many relative or conceptual truths,...but, to use your word,...they're all crap.

 

"Relative and absolute,

These the two truths are declared to be.

The absolute is not within the reach of intellect,

For the intellect is grounded in the relative."

Shantideva