Is there ever an end of individual consciousness?

[deci belle]

hi Jade~ I guess you meant me…❤

 

The statement was "creation itself is THE illusion". You use conditioned awareness to perceive this.

 

It is because your own Unborn awareness is burdened by aggregates of karmic and personalistic accumulations that you can only perceive the mundane aspect of your totality. You are the world, ie: you are not separate from anything. This you that you have come to believe as your own private identity is not the totality.

 

Since this you (of yours) is created, it is no different than the totality of creation. That's not sophistry. It's a fact.

 

When one becomes aware of the totality of oneself, there is no thing. This then proves that creation, including your own physical identity is illusion. And since when one reverts to this totality and back again into created form, this proves that mind is singular. So it is your own mind that concocts endless realities.

 

Reality itself has no counterpart. The mind is singular, uncreated, selfless and miraculously aware. There is no cause. It is inconceivability itself. How could it possible make sense? But that's the way it is, and no one knows why.

 

Your awareness is unborn. If you can discover your true mind and body, you will realize there is no "my".

 

I do not believe. I don't have to. There is no reason. I just adapt to reality. There is no belief because it is known.

 

You don't have to believe that the water is cold because you know it. That is the ageless analogy. The knowledge isn't your body and the knowledge isn't you. It's the knowledge itself. This knowledge is objective, selfless, immediate and requires no intellectual deliberation. This is your unborn mind. Gradually becoming aware of this mind is a matter of self-refinement.

 

I have just given you proof. If you are unable to develop the discipline to recognize the Unborn in yourself and instead follow your habitual intellectualism then you are going along with the flow of created karmic evolution as an ordinary worldling even though you have the potential of inconceivable enlightening being.

 

There is no "either way" in terms of reality— it just is as it is. "Either way" only exists in terms of rationalistic intellectualism. The human mentality perpetually entertains and maintains it's false existence itself with this "either way". It is it's first line of defense. Why don't you start testing and probing this line of defense, hmmmm? Don't worry, there are many, many other subtle and insidious defenses employed by ego. You are not this false identity at all.

 

The reality is, ego's defenses are all unnecessary. Ego is valid. It just shouldn't be in control and taking credit for anything. It's not a thing. It's just a function. It is identity as such that is the root of all illusion.

 

It is not a matter of believing in the illusion or the absolute. To cling to one or the other is delusion. To be unaware of one's delusion is delusion. To be aware of one's delusion is enlightening being. The totality is not a combination of anything. It is whole, complete, living aware potential energy. It is what you are.

 

You are not it.

 

 

 

 

ed note: typo in 6th sentence, among others; last line, penultimate paragraph: add "that"

Edited July 21, 2013 by deci belle

[Jadespear]

Look I agree that our personalities and our minds our products of our experiences, and are therefore conditioned to a certain level.

 

But, I do not agree that the planet earth is an illusion, or that the fact that the sun shines is an illusion. That's what I see when you say "creation". ... We're you referring to something else?

[deci belle]

No further comment, Jade.❤

[Jadespear]

Thanks for sharing DeciBelle.

 

I hope you enjoy life.

[ion]

Thanks for the long winded response. But I'm going to have to disagree with you on your first point. Experience is not an illusion. It may be in the way that you are thinking of it....but I don't see how it is at all. When I eat food I taste it, it's not an illusion, when I am outside and feel the sun it's not an illusion. When I have sex and feel good, it's not an illusion. How is experience an illusion? You use so many pronouns that it is hard for me to understand what you are actually trying to say.

 

An illusion as in all of my senses are not operating the right way and are creating experiences? As in a skewed perception?

 

An illusion as in what? Illusion is a word to describe something you see but does not exist...

 

I don't see my feelings, I feel them. There're not illusory. By what exactly do you mean by using that word illusion?

 

Even if the ego is self created, it exists. It's not an illusion. It may come and go just like everything else but that doesn't make everything an illusion dude.

 

Thanks for the long winded response.

Its good to be thankful but the energy spent was certainly not givven to you. You came across as condesending, my sincerity was for the sake of the group I am a member of, information spreading in general, and per the subject of the thread I am participating in. So be thankfull, but be like Tao and keep it to yourself

 

 

But I'm going to have to disagree with you on your first point.

 

My first point was

Although experience is illusion, your experience of it's un-reality is very real and is reality...

.. Yet like all that it contains [it] is passing and will cease to exist because there was none there to ever have experienced it.

 

 

 

Experience is not an illusion. It may be in the way that you are thinking of it....but I don't see how it is at all. When I eat food I taste it, it's not an illusion, when I am outside and feel the sun it's not an illusion. When I have sex and feel good, it's not an illusion.

Simple minds take credit for such complex things. "You" are eating and tasting? Your not in control of any of the electro-chemichal reactions that make up your experience.

 

If you can not see how experience is an illusion "at all", even in the physical sense that everything is energy and all experience is had as a delayed and developed in the brain, then that is one of the major factors in your energy blockage.

 

When you say that "you" are the one eating and tasting are you saying that the body is ego, or that senasation is ego? If not, and you believe that consciousness is ego, then when you taste somthin'g nasty, why don't you try to get it out of your mind instead of spitting it out of your mouth?

 

Are you saying that ego is the relationship between body and sensation? What about the aspects of body that dont deliver sensation. Do they not happen?

 

It is more accurate to realize that the ego does no eating and does no tasting.

 

You are not doing the tasting. The body was doing the tasting before the ego's development was ever born. Babies unconsciously stick things in their mouths because they are assimilating organisms and their enteric nervous systems are processing chemical information about the environment. If something that is unconsciously/egolessly placed in the mouth of the body and it is too bitter, the tongue, in an electro- chemical reaction is pushed out of the mouth so that the aspect of the environment it was exploring gets pushed out all as a result of an electro-chemical reaction, the ego wasn't even there. The ego and even self awareness are a product of experiences that an egoless identityless mechanism was "experiencing" things before it was even aware that it was aware. Part of your ego is developed by the work your body was doing without you.

 

As far as having unique taste, that is because the body has both generic and unique needs, but you are born without preference for this or that; the human form does not have tastes and tendencies so that an ego can enjoy them.

 

Tasting the food you eat is only apart of the electro-chemical reaction that happens when a subtsance touches the tongue. As the food passes through the digestive system it is processed by the enteric nervous system. Lots of information on its chemical and nutritional composition and whether "you" like or want that food ever again is largely based on information that "you" were never exposed to.

 

There was a guy on a life raft lost at sea for weeks who survived so long because he was able to catch fish to eat. He had no problem catching them but he lost taste for the fish meat after several days of eating nothing but fish meat; he stopped liking it altogeather.

What happened then was that he found himself all the sudden finding the fishes eye balls,other organs and blood to be tantalizing, causing "his" mouth to water where as the fish itself was all the sudden revolting.

 

This ego who had likes and dislikes and and thought that these discriminations were part of its make up, found itself witnessing as through watching a movie in a movie theater, its supposed form and frame devouring raw fish, frantickly slurping up its blood and absolutely loving it. It was over ridden by unconscious behavior and its tendency to meet nutritional needs but again, it doesn't do it for the ego. He appearently didn't really like, or dislike anything and the ego was barely just a witness of the event.

 

Lotsa things happen to the body that the ego is unaware of because there are no nerves in certain area to message the experience to the consciousness and the ego is only aware of what the conscious is paying attention to. Not to mention there are no nerves wired into the ego for it to recieve the sensation. A cigarette smoker feels satisfied because nicotine molecules are similar to certain chemicals released by the brain as a reaction to having met a biological need. Cigarette smoke ingestion obviously does not meet any biological need. As a person feels satisfaction, the body is being fried and the ego thinks that it is a body that is satisfied by the smooth tasting smoke and that it is experiencing the sensation of satisfaction.

 

 

But satisfaction is not a sensation, or a reaction to sensation. Satisfaction is a chemical reaction that we think is a response to sensation, but cigarettes are harsh and the stimulating effect of nicotine is not a pleasent one. Never the less, europeans and their American decendents swore up and down that they smoked cigarettes for centuries because they liked it, before discovering the chemical nature of its addiction.

 

 

When Im getting ready to go somewhere I often times think I just remembered something I need to bring and Ill say something like "dont forget the keys", but then I inevitably do forget them.

 

Why is that? Its because my brain was actually impulsing my body to retrieve the keys from the counter at that moment, but my ego who has no memory distracted the flawless nature of my being and distracted it. My ego thought that it has a memory or that it has acsess to one and it thought that it was remembering the keys and told itself not to forget something that the body was just about to follow through with on its own. The impulse is blocked by a distraction and the keys aren't remembered at all. It comes to my attention that I don't have them when I get to the car.

 

How come egos only experience part of the body? The body reacts to the sun, when it is too hot the body moves for shade, the ego doesn't feel the heat, but it assumes that it must not like it so it says "the body is moving because I don't like heat". When the body is in tempreture conditions that are optimum for its function and health (VIt-D absobtion.), the body tends to stay put, but the ego who doesnt feel hot or cold assumes that the ego likes the temreture and it is staying because the ego likes the tempreture. But ego is not the body, or the bodies actions, or tendencies, and all those things are designed for homeostasis, not for the ego to like or dislike.

 

What the ego is is the shine on the apple, but not the apple, and its reflection is an inacurate one at that because it thinks it can think and falsifies what it experiences by judging and experienced a judgment.

 

 

You use so many pronouns that it is hard for me to understand what you are actually trying to say.

ok well, this-

 

But I'm going to have to disagree with you on your first point.

is not a complete sentance. Should we expect everyone to be writting in MLA format or what?

 

The ego is a developed aspect of the psyche; the psyche is also developed. In other words it is not a real thing that can feel any of what you just said it feel. Its like saying that your cosmology likes the way the sun feels, or that when someone builds you up with a false sense of confidence, that the false sense of confidence experiences this or that, and that it liked or disliked it.

 

Our actions and responses, where they come from and what causes them come from the same place it does with ants and spiders.

 

Do you think that ants and spiders have egos. Do you suppose that the same way that you said "ego in people is for the grater good, and survival purposes", is what causes ants to become so organized and selflesss that they all contribute to the greater good? Is that the product of ego?

 

I dont believe it is the product of ego that organises ants.

 

All the chemical reactions that maintain the brain and senses are uncoscious, not directed to or eminating from an ego. The sensation of this or that was recieved and reacted to long before you, your ego was born within the psyce, so who was feeling them then? Not you. Not an ant, nor a spider.

 

If your ego is an illusion, then the fact that it has a life and it is living one is an illusion. Since awareness and sense of being were never born they never die. Having a life, living one and comming to its death are all illusory concepts to describe the subjection that awareness and sense of being are under, but they are not under that subjection, only the ego who dreamed up the concept has a life and thus must die.

 

 

I'm going to have to ask you another question then. When you say "creation itself is an illusion"...what do you mean by that? Are you simply not acknowledging the fact that there is a physical universe in which we live? Or are you saying acts of creation, like creating music, creating babies, creating anything...are illusions?

 

Both of these make no sense in terms of using the word "illusion" because there has to be a "real" counterpart to describe something as an illusion...

 

My own awareness is not unborn, it exists within my body at this time. I was born, and therefore so was my awareness.

 

If there is no way to make sense of something intellectually, why do you believe it? Why do you espouse concepts that you yourself believe are not able to be understood? That's an illusion. You are the illusion my friend, talking all this nonsense as if it was real.

 

There is no proof either way of anything. So claiming to know is closer to an illusion than truth.

There is proof that ego is illusion. The brain doesnt have one. Thats like saying there is no proof that we dont have wings.

 

Awareness is unborn, and the awareness you are using is not yours, though it is subject to its form, position, behavior, and culture the awareness along with sense of being, will leave your ego and suffer no loss. The ego has become the object of your experience and that is why its an illusion. You experience only ego and ego is illusion.

 

Have you ever had a dream? Everything in it was just a dream. That looked like your mother or your son who died in that dream, but it was just a dream and they were just part of it.

 

"Oh but it was real! I felt the painful emotion, I cried because I lost them when they died in the dream!"

 

This is wrong, whether you felt the emotions, and whether you saw it with your own eyes and whether it made you powerfully sad and whether you cried buckets of tears does not make the dream not a dream.

 

 

If there is no way to make sense of something intellectually, why do you believe it? Why do you espouse concepts that you yourself believe are not able to be understood?

There is an energy in the universe so subtle that it cannot be detected, looked at or observed, yet I believe t exists. You can get all the amino acids enzymes and DNA, wrap it up in a nuclear envelope but it will just sit there. Scientist have tried to start it up with all the materiel parts, and in the propper construct but they cant get it to work.

The life force that illuminates us cannot be detected or sinthesized. If you and the entire feild of molecular biology cant detect, test or make any intellectual sense of something why do you believe it?

Edited July 20, 2013 by ion

[somtingwong]

Look I agree that our personalities and our minds our products of our experiences, and are therefore conditioned to a certain level.

 

But, I do not agree that the planet earth is an illusion, or that the fact that the sun shines is an illusion. That's what I see when you say "creation". ... We're you referring to something else?

 

You are very persistent, Jadespear. I admire your tenacity. It has frightened away the spirits of the valley. Such is the power of inquiry.

[ion]

Inquiry?

 

You are very persistent, Jadespear. I admire your tenacity. It has frightened away the spirits of the valley. Such is the power of inquiry.

To inquire is one thing, but of the subjects jadespear questioned the best answers come from within.

 

To interrogate in an attempt to have the other say something that you think will prove a point you already have is completely another thing.

 

Failure to succeed in gaining pride, assuredly makes one feel shame, and that keeps the frightened away.

[三江源]

.

Edited July 25, 2014 by cat

[DeadDragon]

Deleted. Nevermind. I'm wasting time here, better spent elsewhere. None of you nor I truly understand, Lao Tzu didn't either, he just wrote of our ancient ancestors who did. Nobody has, not for the past few thousand years of darkness. The world would not be as it is if that were not the case. It would be a paradise. Nothing that couldn't be known, nothing that couldn't be done. If just one person understood, we would all understand. No offense. Peace.

Edited July 28, 2013 by DeadDragon

[somtingwong]

Inquiry?

 

To inquire is one thing, but of the subjects jadespear questioned the best answers come from within.

 

To interrogate in an attempt to have the other say something that you think will prove a point you already have is completely another thing.

 

Failure to succeed in gaining pride, assuredly makes one feel shame, and that keeps the frightened away.

 

But it is right to alienate guys like jadespear who keep pounding on our door? Perhaps the answers that came from within us are what he wants investigated. To barricade our door and shoot him down could point to our ego that we want to protect.

[ion]

I could have sworn that you are jadespear ...maybe you guys have very similar psychic signature or something. Either way, none is alienated by anyone here. It seems a little hyper vigilant to say anyone is baracaing doors and shooting down even metaphoricly, it was a discussion that transpired.

[Jadespear]

Thanks for the discussion. There was a lot said and it has sparked a reflection in me.

 

Things that I think I know- if something exists it is knowable, it is possible to gain understanding and insight into any field of existence. So I disagree that whatever force you are talking about is unknowable. I think the term unknowable should be discarded. I've heard lots on stories about people who are able to see chi, God, spirits, the levels of the "beyond"...etc. Granted I haven't seen or done any of those things, they still interest me.

[C T]

Thanks for the discussion. There was a lot said and it has sparked a reflection in me.

 

Things that I think I know- if something exists it is knowable, it is possible to gain understanding and insight into any field of existence. So I disagree that whatever force you are talking about is unknowable. I think the term unknowable should be discarded. I've heard lots on stories about people who are able to see chi, God, spirits, the levels of the "beyond"...etc. Granted I haven't seen or done any of those things, they still interest me.

The term 'unknowable', if discarded, would put an end to enlightening potential. Woe be it if that ever happens.

[Jadespear]

The simple fact still remains, that the word "enlightenment" is relative to each person. What illuminates one may not illuminate another.

But what illuminates everyone?

 

I still don't see what the big deal is with "enlightenment".... And why people think it is something to reach or attain, mostly because no one can tell me what it is...

[somtingwong]

The simple fact still remains, that the word "enlightenment" is relative to each person. What illuminates one may not illuminate another.

But what illuminates everyone?

 

I still don't see what the big deal is with "enlightenment".... And why people think it is something to reach or attain, mostly because no one can tell me what it is...

 

Enlightenment is not relative to each person. If it is, then it isn't enlightenment.

 

We are going about this the wrong way. Actually, there is no enlightenment but there is ignorance. The realization of ignorance is enlightenment. And you are right when you said that there must be a way to intellectually make sense of anything that is asserted as an illusion. No scientist would present a paper on a discovery to his peers without proof.

[C T]

The simple fact still remains, that the word "enlightenment" is relative to each person. What illuminates one may not illuminate another.

But what illuminates everyone?

 

I still don't see what the big deal is with "enlightenment".... And why people think it is something to reach or attain, mostly because no one can tell me what it is...

You are right, its not a big deal. Its in fact very ordinary, and present in everyone.

 

Ever hear the story of the guy who goes out searching for an elephant when there's one already in his sitting room? Its something like that.

 

Its about recognizing potential daily, and very often this potential can become an ongoing actualization process thru applying awareness to one's thoughts, words and actions prior to their manifestation. That which gives rise to dissatisfaction and frustration comes from the fact that with most of us, awareness is only applied post-thought, post-words, and post-action. When this is the governing/pervasive factor, how could one ever wake up? By this, we have chosen to remain asleep in the comfort of past glories and regrets.

 

The term 'waking up' is immense.

 

Each morning we have to 'wake up' before anything else can happen. So, waking up, in every sense, must be the first thing we have to do. Then whatever follows will be a result of that awakeness and not otherwise.

[somtingwong]

Look I agree that our personalities and our minds our products of our experiences, and are therefore conditioned to a certain level.

 

But, I do not agree that the planet earth is an illusion, or that the fact that the sun shines is an illusion. That's what I see when you say "creation". ... We're you referring to something else?

 

The planet earth is an illusion. The sun is an illusion. 3-dimensional space is an illusion. Ours is a perceived reality. Sensory perception is instantaneous. Without memory, there is no way to perceive anything. This brings us to the nature of things. They are all perceptual in nature and have no existence independent of the perceiver. Therefore, creation itself is the illusion.

 

What about the perceiver? Don’t mess around, Jadespear. If you are serious about this inquiry, it could unravel all your relationships and destroy your life as you are living it. That was what happened to the Buddha.

[ion]

Realization is different for everyone. the word enlightenment, Id say is less relative, more specific, liberation to me would be pretty much unrelative, it would be no more rising of consciousness/sustained egolessness.

 

The unknowable is knowable, but unrelatable. It is non-relative, preexisting relativity and the 4dimmendions, not part of this level of reality thus not describable in relative terms. It is graspable, but not containable so undefinable, unlabaleable; its essence can be known in mind, reffered to but not directly transmnittable. This is why all who know it, can only express it in parable, poeticly or using physacal imagery to describe something unphysical as to make an analogy so that the person hearing may allow it into their own awareness...it can be pointed at and a person may say,"oh I see it" but it comes to them from their own mind, a product of their own awareness and thus it becomes a part of them, not something someone told or taught.

 

If you want to know theses things, you have to see them because noone can tell you in relative terms, when it does arise in your mind it will be you who drew it up and allowed it into your perception and awareness.

 

Very true what somtingwong pointedd out, it will destroy your current reality and change your life and you wont fit back in.

[ion]

A person can chew your food and shove it in your mouth, but they cant swallow it for you or do any of the digesting. This world forces a person to use, rely on and only believe in waht can be known throught 5 senses, we dome down our other dended and ddont trust our intuition. You have to use more then just the 5 senses to become aware, when you become aware, your 5 senses will be opened.

[ion]

 

 

Things that I think I know- if something exists it is knowable, it is possible to gain understanding and insight into any field of existence. So I disagree that whatever force you are talking about is unknowable. I think the term unknowable should be discarded. I've heard lots on stories about people who are able to see chi, God, spirits, the levels of the "beyond"...etc. Granted I haven't seen or done any of those things, they still interest me.

It seems like your concept of existence, is what is percievable with our senses or technology(which is relative to our senses/comprehension). But what about these things like life force? life force as I mentioned earlier has scientist baffled. Science looks at a life form as a pressurised system of chemical reactions because it cannot detect anything that is not a product of materiel, and the forces generate by materiel. Scientist put all the right chemicals in the right ammounts in a conducive environment, yet they cant set off the reaction. It appears there is an unknowable undetectable force that is the catylist for the reaction, and it appears the energy is also required to maintain the continuance of the reactions, because if it is lost the reactions stop.

 

This energy that can be seen in action and that cannot be detected is much like the generative force that catylized existence from non existence that also can not be detected.

 

Mind, awareness, sense of being, like we discussed earlier are not a product of matter or form, they exist independently of existence and time. They precede and transcend these things, and are thus not limited to these things, nor are they limited to the five senses that are born of these things.

 

Mind is equipped to see and hear manythings that body is incapapable of. When people see gods and spirrits, they are "seeing" what cant be seen, yet it is being inturpruted through the contents of the consciousness. Like how the wind uses a tree to give itself form as it ruffles the leaves, so does the essence take on the form of a persons mind. If these people thouroughly cultivated their mind, they would see more clearly waht they are seeing. If they see a god insteadd of tao, then they project their ego because they have not reconciled with the truth about their ego, so they see god in place of tao. And gods instead of the plethora of awareness's.

Edited July 29, 2013 by ion

[Gypsy]

Hi, thanks for all of the responses. I do not disagree with any of you. Except for the part where a person "stops existing as an individual". I have experienced such a state of being, where my perception was no longer of an individual. I literally was the trees, the buildings, the sky, etc.

 

The point is, one day "I" am going to forget any of this has happened and it's going to happen again. That "I" am doomed to repeat these struggles again ad infinitum, that I will have to relearn every lesson ever taught. It happened at least once, I was born and forgot what I needed to know or not know in order to be balanced / happy / content / true. I do not disagree that this is an illusion, and none of it really happened / is happening. But that did not prevent me from believing otherwise earlier in my life, or prevent me from experiencing it as real at least in this moment.

 

I do have a clear idea in my head on how to be free of all pain. However my primary concern at this moment is not how to "obtain" enlightenment. I'm not really looking for guidance on how to conquer this worry.

 

Will it all happen again? Not necessarily as this person or awareness but perhaps as another. Or is it a choice, did "I" simply choose to be this person and forgot that I chose, along with forgetting everything else?

 

I read somewhere that Buddha can take on the form of any being without forgetting the Buddha nature. But I don't know...

 

My ideas are a mishmash, I hope not to confuse anyone, and please forgive me for communication is my weakest skill. I find language very limiting and I would remain silent but not when it causes me so much trouble to do so. I asked the spirit of the universe, but "it" is giving me conflicting answers.

Thinking is impersonal. Your true nature 'before-after'-beginning-end is Empty. (ego-me-bodymind-doesn't care for this word-"Empty or nothingness", it could possibly go into a nervous breakdown." )

But, we were 'trained' to believe that were found in word or thoughts thinking in things-limitations." Thoughts think w/o our consent. Thoughts are made to think in word-chatter-noisy mind-brain farts, etc. One Life, One Reality lives us, within opposite of word. An 'individual' = inner divi dual. "Who is thinking, as an individual-consciousness limited per-son/per-daughter in opposite of word-brain fart thoughts?" Words are merely pointers. Words lead to separation, individual from nature itself. In creation-nature of Life, were all connected, and the human species is a bit more advanced for ThyRocks Creative Creation full of ideas and imagination, Life is Full of Art Forms. This is It!! What a Beautiful Life or What a Ugly Life--<see this is the frequency of opposite play within words. "Beautiful-Ugly". Go with the Flow, whatever the wind blows, try to accept it as it is. ThyRock onelife placed it's agenda within each channel for All of it's sentient beings to know, how Life Works its Creation. "Grandiose, exploitative skits filled with drama schemes that tend to fail, or not. It doesn't matter either way. Your True Nature is Empty Consciousness Aware of ThyRock's Creation!!

Namaste

[3bob]

Well dude with a mix of Hinduism, Buddhism and Taoism expect your mind to be blown in multiple ways; it is difficult enough to practice and understand one school within one of these three, (and there are several major "schools" and many sub-schools also within each) but trying to correlate all three ways into a general and mostly intellectual summation like in your original post is bound to be unsatisfactory!

 

One can look for truths as echoed in and through-out nature, for nature does not lie or play favorites while having wondrous order and beauty!

 

"Individual consciousness" as in an individual mind is a part of the whole story but not all of it, yet it has its place and importance - kind of like a raft has for crossing a river.

 

The words: empty, enlightenment, Self, self, samsara, mind, consciousness, etc.. all have definition hurdles and you can spend most of your life playing the game of `my definition and understanding is better than yours' as related to the major religions or ways! Considering that I'd say that without working on our everyday state of being along with a healthy and wholesome way of living as human beings (as we understand such to be), that words such as these from eastern religions will be at least problematic or cause us lots of confusion even though most of them were not meant to do so when they were first spoken by a Being who lived and manifested the knowledge and virtues related to same. (thus books and words about same are not the whole story so I suggest one keep searching)

 

Om

Edited August 5, 2013 by 3bob

[Jadespear]

Yeah.... The planet earth is an illusion.... Wtf? Who gets off on saying dumb things like that? I still don't get it... It's obviously not an illusion because I'm living on it right now. How can you possibly explain that statement without denying all human perception and awareness? That's all your doing then isn't it? Just denying it to yourself, so life doesn't seem so hard... So you have a way out of whatever is troubling you ?

 

I'm not afraid of learning new things to the point where my life is different, but how can anyone have the audacity to first assume they knew what The Buddha went through personally in his life, and then secondly say to me that it will happen to me....

 

I mean I was intrigued with Buddhism for awhile and some sects and schools are still interesting but I don't find any mention of the universe being an illusion in any of them at all. It's more like your thoughts about it are the illusion... Your thoughts put the screen up in front of direct perception of what is going on. So your mind may make illusions but your mind did not create the world. It was here before you existed.

 

I think your all a bunch of fools for repeating stupid things like the "the whole universe is an illusion." It's stupid thinking like that, that has stifled Humanities understanding of the universe, just like the erroneous religious dogma of god creating the world 5000 years ago.... Please...

[deci belle]

Is there ever an end of individual consciousness?

yaaaaaawn… *scratchscratchscratch*

 

 

When your mind is finally blown, there it will be as it always has been all along, aglow. There has never been thinker, thought.

 

Consciousness has never had any contents~ it is even absent of emptiness. How could there ever have been even one?

 

Even so, the living aware uncreated impersonal energy is your own mind right now. Awaken to your own real mind right now and all your delusional existence is not different, not the same. You just take it up and go on, innocent, replete. The universe has nothing on you. Even now it is so. It is just that you yourself do not know this right now. Seeing this is knowing this.

 

Just now, and for the rest of your life, forget all your ideas as you observe the world act in concert. After a long time of this psychological fasting, reality will dawn on you as it always has been …aglow.

 

it is simply a matter of calm awareness sustaining open sincere intent as you respond naturally to ordinary situations.

 

The fact that it is illusion doesn't make it different than reality. It is your own ignorance of reality that makes your experience of ordinary situations different than reality.

 

You should go back to your original question and accept that the answer to it is a qualified yes. Actually it has never begun. How does this reconcile with your present position on taking illusion for reality?

 

It is the unseen that is real. It is the created that is false. Right now you take the false for the real. It is not a matter of belief. You have to experience this yourself. Don't take anyone else's word for it— and don't deny it either.

 

Ultimately, even now, you are on your own and you are dying. What are you doing about the matter of life and death, hmmmm?

 

 

 

ed note: add last three sentences

Edited August 6, 2013 by deci belle

[3bob]

I have some beachfront dharma in Arizona for anyone that wants to buy into it... (come all ye yawners and scratchers)